Fighting Game Headquarters |2| 0-2 vs Community

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Huw_Dawson said:
SF4 online is pretty dishonest thanks to the latency. You're better off not thinking about winning or losing and just focus on training something, like reading player habits.

SF5 online is a lot better thankfully as they removed most of the things people loved mashing (2 frame SPDs, 3 frame throws, 90% of characters having invincible wakeup options) so the game itself manages to be much more honest without being dry.
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I'm focusing on trying to predict players, take advantage of them psychologically (have them bait their ultra or burn their meter), as well as how to punish and anti air.
 
Shackzam said:
Go into juicebox stream for the first time to ask him a question and for some reason I'm banned lol
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I didn't ban you, Katy_Perry (mod) probably did it for some reason. I don't have a clue what you said. If you post your question I'll try to answer it. Also tell me your twitch name and I'll unban you.

BakedYams said:
Juicebox-senpai! Are you gonna be playing on PS4 or PC? I really wanna go in depth on the meta of the game once it releases to discuss what direction it'll be going in.
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PS4. Not that it matters, there's cross-play!
 
Neoxon said:
So now that Pokkén Tournament is confirmed to have local LAN, you guys think the game will have a competitive future?
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Oh really? That's really promising, then.


I was originally of the opinion that Pokken's competitive life would be dead on arrival because of the way local multiplayer works. One person on the gamepad and one person on the TV? Yeah, no. There's a reason why Splatoon's local multiplayer sucks.

Now that there's local LAN for Pokken, I think it has a much more promising competitive lifespan. I haven't played it, but I think it looks very solid.


I'm going to make a very stupid guess and say that I think the Smash players will have to get into the game, because they're the ones with all the Wii Us in the FGC. They'll probably be the ones who make or break the game's competitive lifespan. How many individuals have multiple portable setups? And multiple Wii Us? I think the Smash players will be key for the game's competitive success, regardless if the game is good or not.
 
CommandThrower said:
Oh really? That's really promising, then.


I was originally of the opinion that Pokken's competitive life would be dead on arrival because of the way local multiplayer works. One person on the gamepad and one person on the TV? Yeah, no. There's a reason why Splatoon's local multiplayer sucks.

Now that there's local LAN for Pokken, I think it has a much more promising competitive lifespan. I haven't played it, but I think it looks very solid.


I'm going to make a very stupid guess and say that I think the Smash players will have to get into the game, because they're the ones with all the Wii Us in the FGC. They'll probably be the ones who make or break the game's competitive lifespan. How many individuals have multiple portable setups? And multiple Wii Us? I think the Smash players will be key for the game's competitive success, regardless if the game is good or not.
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That's actually a rather fair assessment. I just need to get the game, an ethernet adapter, & the wired controller to have a complete Pokkén set-up. Though judging by the footage I was able to pull up, quite a few Smash players are looking to get into the game, so hopefully that helps the prospect of competitive Pokkén.
 
Marz said:
I mean sure i get what you're saying, but if i spend 3 bars on a safe reversal, that was baited and blocked...thats a severe blow to my neutral game. Thats 3 ex moves, no access to super, if i get knocked down again im free to safejumps etc. So its not without risk. People complain about backdashes but you've gained valuable screen position...which is super important in SF. Im not a fan of ultras or anything but i dont ever see people complaining about safe dps in Guilty Gear or BB in this thread and in those games you have to worry about even more wakeup options.

I just dont agree with this notion that IV is some scrub friendly game or that you need to know OS magic to even hit people. Their seems to be a common opinion in this thread and a lot of places on the internet that how people play online is how intermediate and high level gameplay plays out in IV. People that suck go online and get destroyed because SF has a large playerbase with a ton of players and then they come online and trash IV, majority of those people suck anyways and they're going to suck no matter how stripped down and back to basics SF gets.

This isnt the 90's anymore fighting games have evolved on offense and defense.
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I think there's a big difference between being able to do something dumb being punished for it and being given a disadvantage from doing it, but obviously this is getting very much in to semantics.

I look at it like this, lets say I really liked ST or 3s or something. If I did a wake up uppercut in those games and it was blocked, I could be punished. I have no way of limiting whether or not I can get punished for it. Going from that sort of game to SF4 up to and including AE2012 I could do that and ensure my safety in exchange of two bars. While this safety definitely exists with a limiting factor, it still exists while in a previous situation which was equally comparable before never had that safety at all. Now you get to Ultra where it still exists but is more costly, so it's slightly less available but it still exists. Etc etc.

Obviously you know everything I'm saying, but the idea that it's smart to do it because you can is a mentality that exists only within the scope of what you can do in 4. If you're looking at it from a certain perspective (the aforementioned ST or 3s player mindset) that's a move that on paper is idiotic but has an escape. So that's where that statement comes from.

Going on to what you say after, though, I definitely agree with you that people have a strange way of diminishing the success within the game. Sure, someone COULD end up achieving great success through very 4 exclusive things like multi faceted OSes, unblockable set ups and so on but that only gets you so far and not everyone needs to do that. On a personal level I don't use any OSes, I don't even crouch tech. I don't win every time and I don't go insanely far in huge tournaments, but I pretty much never get blown out of water and can hold my own. As a bigger example, Arturo also doesn't OS much and he's extremely successful.

Frankly I think the people who diminish the game to being just scrub friendly OS based and conducive to scrubby behaviour are the people who don't want to spend the time getting better. Personally I'm getting tired of how people can succeed and limit my options through their OSes and so on but I accept that it's part of the game and also my own fault for not learning how to do the same.
 
Marz said:
Im not a fan of ultras or anything but i dont ever see people complaining about safe dps in Guilty Gear or BB in this thread and in those games you have to worry about even more wakeup options.
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Different games, etc, ... GG have burst, alpha counters, inv-backdashes, just defense(lower block stun), faultless defense(push back, no chip damage, air block), Blitz and instant grabs + grab inv on wake-up to help you out while on the defensive, yet still, the thing you're more likely to hear people complain about in GG is how overwhelming offense is in the game.
 
The fact that SF5 mechanically encourages DP baiting and makes it inherently a massive risk is casts a pretty damning shadow on the way it was handled in SF4.

The game in SF4 so often comes down to safety strats - the high level game does feature riskier players and characters but it goes to show when characters like Rufus (who in most SF games would be insanely good) are sidelined vs safer RTSD characters like Akuma and Yun - who do the same job with shorter normals but far more safely.

It's why I am looking forward to SF5 - it's a big palette clenser from SF4, which is by no means a bad game, but I'd really rather suck at a new game at this point that forces people to change their stuff up.
 
New patch is out for PC version of Guilty Gear Xrd, fixes that controller bug and some other stuff.

v1.02 Patch (Jan 15th)
15 JANUARI - ARCSYSTEMWORKS
The following issues have been addressed and fixed as of the current update:

Bug Fixes:
- Fixed issue where upon connecting certain controllers, players experience a gradual decrease in frame rates.
- Fixed issue where players crash in Online Player's Room when they attempt to chat, especially if their Steam nicknames are too long.
- Fixed issue where the players' Steam nicknames end up getting distorted if the names contain non-alphanumeric letters.

Improved features:
- Added a new function to the button settings to allow players to define their own Pause button. The default key is "Spacebar".
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Huw_Dawson said:
The fact that SF5 mechanically encourages DP baiting and makes it inherently a massive risk is casts a pretty damning shadow on the way it was handled in SF4.

The game in SF4 so often comes down to safety strats - the high level game does feature riskier players and characters but it goes to show when characters like Rufus (who in most SF games would be insanely good) are sidelined vs safer RTSD characters like Akuma and Yun - who do the same job with shorter normals but far more safely.

It's why I am looking forward to SF5 - it's a big palette clenser from SF4, which is by no means a bad game, but I'd really rather suck at a new game at this point that forces people to change their stuff up.
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To be fair once SFV has been around for a long time people will also just settle on some optimal type of play that people will then call boring. :P
 
Cindi Mayweather said:
So I'm being trained by a certain high level player due to Scrub to Master thread. Can't say who.

My homework until SFV is out to keep playing GG, and to concentrate on doing every Trial in USFIV before SFV comes out. I'm also supposed to go over the entire Footsies Handbook.
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Identify your execution issues and set your own routine, don't use trial

Cindi Mayweather said:
I'm doing that too. Went from 100 PP to 800 PP tonight. Plan on hitting 1000 this weekend.

People say I've improved but it doesn't feel like I've improved that much.
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You're in the "I have good buttons so I'm gonna press them all the time" phase iirc from your last video, which is better than where you were before
 
ArjanN said:
New patch is out for PC version of Guilty Gear Xrd, fixes that controller bug and some other stuff.





To be fair once SFV has been around for a long time people will also just settle on some optimal type of play that people will then call boring. :P
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Very true, but it won't be based around this cat-and-mouse of safe pressure vs safe wakeup.
 
Marz said:
I mean sure i get what you're saying, but if i spend 3 bars on a safe reversal, that was baited and blocked...thats a severe blow to my neutral game. Thats 3 ex moves, no access to super, if i get knocked down again im free to safejumps etc. So its not without risk. People complain about backdashes but you've gained valuable screen position...which is super important in SF. Im not a fan of ultras or anything but i dont ever see people complaining about safe dps in Guilty Gear or BB in this thread and in those games you have to worry about even more wakeup options.

I just dont agree with this notion that IV is some scrub friendly game or that you need to know OS magic to even hit people. Their seems to be a common opinion in this thread and a lot of places on the internet that how people play online is how intermediate and high level gameplay plays out in IV. People that suck go online and get destroyed because SF has a large playerbase with a ton of players and then they come online and trash IV, majority of those people suck anyways and they're going to suck no matter how stripped down and back to basics SF gets.

This isnt the 90's anymore fighting games have evolved on offense and defense.
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DILLON_predator.gif

I always knew you was one of the good ones
 
GG has DPs, but it isn't as annoying because Zato doesn't care. :p

I don't think SFIV is some scrub game, and I think it's silly to claim such. It's like calling Marvel random, or Poker a game of chance. Just claims from salty folks that aren't winning.

That said, I am not a huge fan of SFIV just because I don't think it is fun. There are a lot of reasons I don't find the game to be fun, from the focus on oki, to the numerous anti-fireball tools every character has that makes my kind of favored gameplay infeasible, to FADC out of pressure being anticlimatic for intense footsie situations. Maybe if I would have discovered the Bison Alternative in SFIV, I would have had more fun with it, but after spending so many hours grinding out Oni and Guile in a game I didn't like, I was content with just going to Blanka for the lolz.
 
Holy Order Sol said:
"waah waah b-b-b-but I paid with meter/positioning" like that's supposed to be enough
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Yeah, I really dislike when people say this. I don't care about paying with meter or positioning. You should pay with your health meter. Anything else is less than it should be.

And Vulva pretty much nailed why I don't like SF4. It's not fun. And no, people that are good at SF4 won't suck at SF5, as long as they learn the game the same way they did SF4.

Fuck SF4. Good riddance.
 
if you have a read on a throw in VF you can just let your biggest, filthiest launcher rip and your opponent will eat like half health

if you don't have a read on it you can always be breaking a throw while guarding
 
I don't think I heard anyone say that SF4 is overall a scubby game. On the contrary most people talk about the barrier of entry with stuff like 1 frame links.

My thing with SF4 is that I just either didn't find it that fun or just found mechanics more annoying than not.

People who put in the time/effort in SFV will be good at SFV. That's all there is to it. Some people will start off better than others but in the end it will come down to who has been doing the most work and is the smartest about their approach to the game.

Skilletor said:
<3

I love this in VF and DoA.
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How do you do it in DoA? Just 33P or 8K with Mila?
 
Marz said:
I mean sure i get what you're saying, but if i spend 3 bars on a safe reversal, that was baited and blocked...thats a severe blow to my neutral game. Thats 3 ex moves, no access to super, if i get knocked down again im free to safejumps etc. So its not without risk. People complain about backdashes but you've gained valuable screen position...which is super important in SF. Im not a fan of ultras or anything but i dont ever see people complaining about safe dps in Guilty Gear or BB in this thread and in those games you have to worry about even more wakeup options.

This isnt the 90's anymore fighting games have evolved on offense and defense.
Click to expand...

In Guilty Gear AC you had 3 extra guards/defense systems (instant block, fautless, parry) but all of them require you to guard in the first place. So when someone wakes up in GG you only have to worry about invincible DP, backdash or guard (and once you saw chich one, you adapt). And if you time badly or position yourself too close, about spammed lights and throws but you can work around them as many moves have long active frames eating lights or are invincible to throws.
In SF4 on wakeup you can DP (and cancel the DP), focus (and red focus), focus backdash, backdash, guard (while OS things like lights and tech throw). So the only thing you can do to cover so much options is to option select with your own character when attacking and the last time I check there isn't so many OS in Guilty Gear, even if Xrd intoduced some.
 
Dahbomb said:
How do you do it in DoA? Just 33P or 8K with Mila?
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In VF and DoA ALL attacks will ALWAYS beat a throw, if you're in the animation of an attack, the throw will lose out (unless it's a catch throw/offensive hold).

I'm not familiar with Mila's movelist, but if you have a read on a throw do the launching knee move she has, or any other launcher and you'll get a high counter hit.
 
ShinMaruku said:
Leads into her throw afer the parry to open up your back like a over ripe melon. p+K in that exchange is a tsubaki.
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There was no parry. She did pp2k, p+k. She doesn't have a throw from that move. She's got 5p, 2p, and p+k. No tsubaki (7p), no throw attempt or it would have been high counter.

You might be confusing it with 1p into her throw, but there wasn't an attempt there.
 
Indeed, I'd have to ask Yoyo about that one. But That power blow is a good throw punish because it's crouching so things whiff. Bboy landed that on Kwiggle which was most amusing.
 
I never knew that all of the BB games had their music composed by Daisuke. It sounds so different from his GG stuff that I thought it was by someone else. What a talented dude.

ArjanN said:
New patch is out for PC version of Guilty Gear Xrd, fixes that controller bug and some other stuff.
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Really glad that they finally fixed the memory leak issue. That was pretty bad.
 
It occured to me that IIRC n.Ken's lp dp in ST is actually invincible and safe on block, speaking about safe wakeup. Any OG might correct me though.

One important thing for everyone to remember whilst playing casuals is this - it doesn't matter if you win or lose. What matters is that you are getting useful practice in. All my practice before DHW13 and other tournaments was moot because it wasn't truly useful practice - and really so much is about the mental game that even the exact game you play doesn't really matter. If someone's spamming throws online? Fine. Carry on playing and figure out your mental game. Get chucked as many times as you need to get a natural and effective anti-throw strategy down. Latency, stupid matchups etc doesn't stop your greatest asset working, which is your brain.

I've learned these lessons after a very long time and I hope this perspective helps someone.
 
irfaanator said:
how is Final Round multi but KiT and NWM FGC?
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maybe they got madden running


tidbit from a Tokido interview:

When I became a pro gamer, it wasn't really out of logic but more so the passion from wanting to be a pro gamer. During my time at Todai, I was an Engineering student who did Biomaterial research and worked on building artificial human bones and organs. Utilizing my way of thinking, I was immersed into the research. It was really fun. I felt that I was directly contributing to society as I built stuff. At that time, I devoted everything to research, to the point of staying away from games. I even wrote a research thesis that granted me a nationwide award.
However, I spent so much of my devotion to my research that I hardly studied for my graduate exams. As a result, my exam scores were not high enough to get me into the research department of my choice. When I joined some other research department instead, I quickly turned into "extra baggage", not being able to contribute much. Without doing much now day-to-day, I pondered about what I should do with my life. I then found out that a weaker fighting game player than me turned into a pro gamer. At that time, pro gamers were just starting to bloom. I thought that was "unforgivable". As I struggled and struggled thinking about what I should do, I took one big step in a completely different route to be a worldwide pro-gamer.
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Rest of the article translated in a reddit post

Who was the weaker player around that time? Justin? Choco? I can't remember who was sponsored around that time before MCZ got the big 3.
 
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