• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Fighting Games Weekly | Dec 1-7 | Guest characters are banned

S

Sayad

Member
VanillaCakeIsBurning said:
Looking through Elphelt's page and I spotted this.



Her IK looks like it's Faust tier.
Click to expand...
At first, El looked like a bad design, but the more they showed about her the better she looked. Ended up being a decent addition to the game, but then you realize that she was supposed to be this game's Platinum... For a cutesy joke character she's pretty damn awesome, they got away with murder considering the character archetype.
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
Sayad said:
At first, El looked like a bad design, but the more they showed about her the better she looked. Ended up being a decent addition to the game, but then you realize that she was supposed to be this game's Platinum... For a cutesy joke character she's pretty damn awesome, they got away with murder considering the character archetype.
Click to expand...

Glad people are warming up to her now. I liked how she turned out, and she gets to be my weird zoner that I usually choose in anime games
since I get no Dizzy.
 
B

BumblebeeCody

Member
Been playing Smash a lot over the weekend. Went to a tournament on Friday - Saturday Yeah I'll continue to call it Brawl.5. It's just not that good. Game is incredibly slow. Reusing all of Brawl assets and putting them in HD just doesn't sit well with me.
*Is looking at he game based on it's own merits and not comparing to Melee and/or Project M.....on while I mentioned them, they are much better games.
 
B

BumblebeeCody

Member
QisTopTier said:
Smash 4 isn't slow. It's pretty fast. Melee, like Marvel, is just hyper speed.
Click to expand...

That's what I've heard and yet I completely disagree. Link is brainnumbin(ly) sluggish. The isn't fast or even close to being what people have been making though to be. Landing frames too. Why?
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
The only thing fast about smash 4 is the ground running speed for some characters.

Take to the air and that shit is Little Big Planet.

Also the other thing that's fast in Smash 4 is how fast it resets back to neutral Kappa
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
BumblebeeCody said:
That's what I've heard and yet I completely disagree. Link is brainnumbin(ly) sluggish. The isn't fast or even close to being what people have been making though to be. Landing frames too. Why?
Click to expand...
lol oh why are you expecting link to be fast
K.Sabot said:
The only thing fast about smash 4 is the ground running speed for some characters.

Take to the air and that shit is Little Big Planet.

Also the other thing that's fast in Smash 4 is how fast it resets back to neutral Kappa
Click to expand...

Jump less
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Are there any good tutorials for Xrd out there for people that know how to play Guilty Gear already?

Dahbomb said:
The Dragon Age post is insanely accurate... have not played anything except that game all week. Well actually I played some random kids games with my younger cousin but nothing serious.
Click to expand...

Finally getting the main hub
after 15 hours
just blew my mind.
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
I think Smash 4 can get pretty fast. However, I can't say that's going to be how the game turns out in the long run. The stronger characters can play rather safe and be threatening, so I wouldn't be surprised seeing matches being drawn out by careful approaches.

I have a feeling it's going to end up like SFXT where you have both sides arguing whether the game (match) is fast or slow, even though it can be both.
K.Sabot said:
The only thing fast about smash 4 is the ground running speed for some characters.

Take to the air and that shit is Little Big Planet.

Also the other thing that's fast in Smash 4 is how fast it resets back to neutral Kappa
Click to expand...

It's criminal seeing how far Fox's jumps go. They barely go anywhere lol
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
The game really does remind me of SFxT in many ways.

Rhapsody said:
It's criminal seeing how far Fox's jumps go. They barely go anywhere lol
Click to expand...

I remember seeing Mango play fox in smash 4 for the first time the other day, his only quote was "this is not the fox that won evo". Don't think I've seen him touch him again lol
 
B

BumblebeeCody

Member
K.Sabot said:
The only thing fast about smash 4 is the ground running speed for some characters.

Take to the air and that shit is Little Big Planet.

Also the other thing that's fast in Smash 4 is how fast it resets back to neutral Kappa
Click to expand...
And that too. I play Little Mac and I'm having fun dash dancing and fox trotting but that because he's a fast character. I could do the same with Link/Mario in Brawl. I don't understand the neutral reset either.

QisTopTier said:
lol oh why are you expecting link to be fast
s
Click to expand...
When was he slow? He's a character that had average speed. I played hi. As a very solid zoner character. Boomerang to Bow/Nair/UpB and really keep the out. Now Link has this incredibly sluggish startup animation. What's worse about his boomerang is that the recovery is awful. It can be off-screen and you still don't have access to it, often leading me to throw out nothing.
DownAis painful slow for a characters making spikes a pain to pull off.

I dislike Brawl a lot but the points made about Sm4sh(Brawl.5)being between Brawl Melee is clearly misinformation.

And I admit going from Project M 3.5 Ike back to slow Brawl.5 Ike is a depressing feeling.

To put this into perspective, the game is that slow and "weighty" I've bow picked up C.Falcon because I can control him.

Edit: even though it's. It the intent of the video(testing my audio recording setup) I had a casual set with a friend an I manage to survive to 225% as Little Mac.
Shameless plug: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D8l2apIQ3Hw

This game doesn't make much sense.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
I haven't even touch Destiny yet, but it has plague my group chats (yes multiple of chats not just one!).

DESTINY THIS! DESTINY THAT. GET ON DESTINY!
 
A

alstein

Member
marimorimo said:
Fighting game gurus, is there a way for someone who absolutely sucks in fighting games to at least be halfway decent?


Halp :(
Click to expand...

It takes understanding why you're losing and how to fix it, then a willingness to put in the work to fix it.

It really is a series of baby steps, and it takes some mental work. I do think some folks can't learn fighting games to be honest about it.
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
WesternHeretic said:
I haven't even touch Destiny yet, but it has plague my group chats (yes multiple of chats not just one!).

DESTINY THIS! DESTINY THAT. GET ON DESTINY!
Click to expand...

I honestly haven't been this addicted to a game probably ever. Bungie just does enough to get people addicted to the loot, PVP, nice vistas, etc. It just got a huge update yesterday and the expansion is next week. Just like WOW, it's just going to keep on getting better.
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
marimorimo said:
Fighting game gurus, is there a way for someone who absolutely sucks in fighting games to at least be halfway decent?

Everyone keeps saying babies and grandmas can play Smash Bros but even I can't play it :(

In any fighting game, I feel like there are so many inputs to memorize and the action on screen is so fast that I end up button-mashing before I even start executing a strategy.

With Smash Bros I played the demo and while it seems cool, I have no idea what's happening on screen 90% of the time. I win though (it's on Easy).

I have:
- Mortal Kombat (PS3)
- SFIV (PS3)
- Persona 4 Arena

All fighting games released on IGC on Vita (Guilty Gear, SFxTekken, etc..)

Halp :(
Click to expand...

http://pastebin.com/AxJ7USsJ

As far as technical competence goes, the three main things, I guess, are:
Practicing so you can move mental processing from the conscious into the unconscious.
Understanding space control
Understanding combo mechanics

Conscious Thought vs. Unconscious Thought said:
A big thing about becoming fluid is offloading work from your System 2 (conscious, logical brain. Slow, can only process a handful of things at once) to your System 1 (unconscious, heuristic-based. "intuition", "muscle memory". Fast, but not always thorough).

It's why people complain about APM in Starcraft - the limit is not physical, anyone can press 200-300 keystrokes a minute more or less. The problem is if you have to System 2 think your way through every single action, you'll be slow as molasses even if you use the proper hotkeys and stuff. Repeated practice begins to move the tasks into the unconscious where they're processed faster and don't tax your System 2 (which can then be used to pay attention to opponent tendencies, analyze what build they're going for etc.), and the memory units will get bigger over time as well.

Basically, practice means you intially consciously think of "forward, down, downforward" for DP, can't do it and start to hurry up way too much. Then you try to impress it into your mind as a single motion. You see someone jump at you, see the dp and focus on doing the motion. Low success rate, but can work.

More practice means the heuristic mind starts seeing the jump-in, knows yeah that loses to DP and you just do it.

http://kayin.pyoko.org/?p=2047
Click to expand...

Controlling space on a basic level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0cFs5mHQC4
http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/185451/ground-game-guide

How moves combo into each other:
Coffeeling said:
There's two ways to combo moves into each other - cancels and links.

In a link, you let a move complete fully, it leaves the opponent in hitstun for, say, 5 frames more than it takes you to recover. So if you can connect another move within those five frames, there's nothing the opponent can do about it. It's a combo. Link combos tend to require a lot of precision in this game - oftentimes you only have a single frame of time to connect the move as a combo. One example is Ryu's cr.mp, cr.hk combo - the punch leaves you at +5, the sweep's first active frame is the fifth. Possible, but hard.

The second way to combo is the cancel. As the name implies, you start a move, and if that move hits or is blocked, you can cancel it midway to do another move. A standard Ryu example is the cr.mk xx fireball cancel. It combos because you cancel away the recovery part of the kick, so the fireball comes out much faster.
Typically, normals can be canceled into special moves and supers and special moves can be cancelled into a focus attack (which then can be canceled into a dash. FADC = Focus Attack Dash Cancel).

Some normals have the property of being able to be canceled by not only into special moves, but also into other normals. This is typically a property of light punches and kicks, and is called chaining. Spam cr.lp, you notice the punches coming out at lightning speed and comboing with ease. You're canceling the jabs as soon as they become active. Chains are easy and effective, but have one downside: If I chain two jabs together, I cannot cancel the second jab into a special move. The last jab of the series has to be linked. So this does not work: cr.lp xx cr.lp xx cr.lp xx fireball. However, if you link the last jab: cr.lp xx cr.lp, cr.lp xx fireball, it works because the linked jab is special cancelable.

But yeah, if you are not stumbling onto the special cancelability issue, it's just links being very strict.
Click to expand...

http://i.imgur.com/7uL3ZS8.gifv


The last and most important part is to ask yourself why you're losing and trying to find solutions. But understanding the above is needed to be able to find those solutions.
 
D

DiscoShark

Banned
I just can't wait to use a grappler in an arc sys fighting game that :

  • Has real AntiAir options including a dedicated AA normal
  • Can actually outpoke the pixies because he doesn't have a collection of stubby normals with huge startup.
  • Has a double jump
  • Has a breakable armored dash that he can cancel into from his set of huge normals allowing him to move forward safely on the ground while keeping up pressure

Basically a grappler that actually has a neutral game.

/AccumulatedTagerSalt
 
4

4r5

Member
DiscoShark said:
Stuffffff
Click to expand...

let's say it's not a raw command throw and instead a special cancelled normal into a command throw so some of the command throw startup is mitigated by the fact that you're not able to jump on frame 1 of the called out throw.
Click to expand...

GG gives you 5f of throw invul as you are coming out of blockstun. In a tick-throw situation, you would have more time to jump. (By 1 extra frame)

This is also why jabbing/poking a throw attempt is always an option. Unless you are Axl who does not have a 5-framer. But he's designed to suck against cmdThrows anyways.

would need to account for the amount of time taken to reach the apex of your jump and fall down to a level where he's vulnerable on the ground.
Click to expand...

You poke on the way up, not on the way down. Like Street Fighter meaty jumpback overheads. That's why you can go straight off the numbers.

Buut, I forgot to take in to account the timeslow from the YRC. That tightens things up a lot more.


Game is almost out. We'll be able to hash it all out soon enough. I don't think it'll be that bad. Worst case scenario, it all turns in to a YRC showdown. You see some of that happening already. Which is par for the course in Guilty Gear. Calls back to FRC showdowns where a lot of meter gets spent, but no one gets hurt.

They tend to let 'broke' stuff like this rock. See how it all pans out before intervening. YRC windows are adjustable. I think they let Sol have a whiff YRC on his cmd.throw because his cmdThrow does not have any throw invincibility. Counter throwing his cmd.throw is a viable option. And it still complies with the overall rule of: Attacks beats throws. Throws beat block. Block beat attacks.



Someone posted on Dustloop that we'd be able to play Xrd on the 2nd @ 5pm EST, but the 3rd makes more sense. Typo?


Also, I stumbled on some German guy practicing #reload Johnny on twitch, and I spent 3 hours with him, teaching stuff.
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
DiscoShark said:
I just can't wait to use a grappler in an arc sys fighting game that :

  • Has real AntiAir options including a dedicated AA normal
  • Can actually outpoke the pixies because he doesn't have a collection of stubby normals with huge startup.
  • Has a double jump
  • Has a breakable armored dash that he can cancel into from his set of huge normals allowing him to move forward safely on the ground while keeping up pressure

Basically a grappler that actually has a neutral game.

/AccumulatedTagerSalt
Click to expand...

Also that "Hit opponent with raw ICPM for maximum mental breakdown" factor. (Colloquially known as "being FAB")

49.jpg
 
A

alstein

Member
DiscoShark said:
I just can't wait to use a grappler in an arc sys fighting game that :

  • Has real AntiAir options including a dedicated AA normal
  • Can actually outpoke the pixies because he doesn't have a collection of stubby normals with huge startup.
  • Has a double jump
  • Has a breakable armored dash that he can cancel into from his set of huge normals allowing him to move forward safely on the ground while keeping up pressure

Basically a grappler that actually has a neutral game.

/AccumulatedTagerSalt
Click to expand...

Cerebella isn't going to be a guest character in Guilty Gear, sorry.
 
D

DiscoShark

Banned
4r5 said:
*Knowledge*
Click to expand...

Thanks for getting back to me on this. The throw invincibility coming off of block stun is definitely something I hadn't realized up until this point and that definitely changes things, as well as the knowledge that poking throws is a thing. I like the "let it rock" mentality when it comes to things like this, certainly beats your kneejerk nerfs to X or Y in any situation.

alstein said:
Cerebella isn't going to be a guest character in Guilty Gear, sorry.
Click to expand...

Where do you think Cerebella takes the vast majority of her inspiration from? Pot's the original terrifying anime grappler.

Coffeeling said:
Also that "Hit opponent with raw ICPM for maximum mental breakdown" factor. (Colloquially known as "being FAB")
Click to expand...

Time to watch some more recent FAB vids.
 
C

CrazyTank940

Member
I'd say "I haven't been this excited for a new fighting game since ___" but Ultimax happened recently lol, still having fun with that when I can. I will say "I can't wait for school to end next week so I can play fighting games a lot more again" though. This week my final large assignment is complete (not that large overall, just by my standards :s), then finals next week, then I'm home free just in time for US Xrd. Pretty stoked.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
BumblebeeCody said:
That's what I've heard and yet I completely disagree. Link is brainnumbin(ly) sluggish. The isn't fast or even close to being what people have been making though to be. Landing frames too. Why?
Click to expand...
Play Soldnerkei on here and tell me Link is slow.

Too many people criticize this game without knowing what they can do in it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

How would folks go about creative a slightly more unified "MMORPG community", the same way the Fighting game community (FGC) is?
5
375
Kumomeme replied
  • Poll
Fighting games; much loved but quickly abandoned. Do you play them more than 1 week?
Poll 2
82
3K
Nemesisuuu replied
GDC 2024 | Conf Schedules for Unreal & other Game Tech
2
1K
CamHostage replied
The Electric Underground | Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike is Peak Arcade Design | Why It Endures
Opinion Retro Trailer
8
833
NeverYouMind replied
Masahiro Sakurai emphasizes “not wasting a second of the player’s time” in games
Game Dev
15
2K
lughnasadh123 replied
Top Bottom