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[TheChits]

A bit off-topic, but I wanted to say goodbye to everyone here.
I leave to do my army service in a few hours and internet access will be limited.
These threads were pretty much the only ones I semi-consistently posted on neogaf and posts by members here are what led me to the forum in the first place.

I hope the rest of 2014 is filled with good news for fighting games and even better events.
And less shitty reboots of video game series nobody wanted.

Have fun you all.

Stay safe man

 

[Rhapsody]

A bit off-topic, but I wanted to say goodbye to everyone here.
I leave to do my army service in a few hours and internet access will be limited.
These threads were pretty much the only ones I semi-consistently posted on neogaf and posts by members here are what led me to the forum in the first place.

I hope the rest of 2014 is filled with good news for fighting games and even better events.
And less shitty reboots of video game series nobody wanted.

Have fun you all.

Take care and good luck.

Pretty sure these Weekly threads will still be here when you get back.

 

[Dahbomb]

A bit off-topic, but I wanted to say goodbye to everyone here.
I leave to do my army service in a few hours and internet access will be limited.
These threads were pretty much the only ones I semi-consistently posted on neogaf and posts by members here are what led me to the forum in the first place.

I hope the rest of 2014 is filled with good news for fighting games and even better events.
And less shitty reboots of video game series nobody wanted.

Have fun you all.

Best of luck and say safe.

 

[notworksafe]

The "more viewers than players" part actively helps with Marvel because the players are more likely to use high level play as a guide than their own personal experience/frustrations.

SF is a much easier game to play at a beginner level, even if the high-level play has a relatively high execution barrier walling it off.

i dunno about that. mashing LMHSMHS-> Super is pretty easy. Tell a beginner to that, then tell them to do Ryu's C.LK, C.LP, SRK and see which they accomplish first

 

[Dahbomb]

i dunno about that. mashing LMHSMHS-> Super is pretty easy. Tell a beginner to that, then tell them to do Ryu's C.LK, C.LP, SRK and see which they accomplish first

LMHS MMHS super is the equivalent of doing j.HK cr.HK in SF4. Or more specfically j.HK cr.HP DP.

 

[kirblar]

i dunno about that. mashing LMHSMHS-> Super is pretty easy. Tell a beginner to that, then tell them to do Ryu's C.LK, C.LP, SRK and see which they accomplish first

J.HK-> Sweep. Good amount of damage. Very little execution needed.

edit: lol beaten

 

[chriskun]

i dunno about that. mashing LMHSMHS-> Super is pretty easy. Tell a beginner to that, then tell them to do Ryu's C.LK, C.LP, SRK and see which they accomplish first

telling a beginner to hit 8 buttons in sequence is actually much harder and daunting to most beginners. Add in short cuts in the sf series and c.lk. c.lp, srk is actually much easier.

 

[Clawww]

A bit off-topic, but I wanted to say goodbye to everyone here.
I leave to do my army service in a few hours and internet access will be limited.
These threads were pretty much the only ones I semi-consistently posted on neogaf and posts by members here are what led me to the forum in the first place.

I hope the rest of 2014 is filled with good news for fighting games and even better events.
And less shitty reboots of video game series nobody wanted.

Have fun you all.

take care dude

 

[Dahbomb]

More inputs means more chances to mess up.

Beginners mess up aerial combos all the time. They either don't jump right, don't jump at the right angle or mash to get more Ms than they need or they don't delay the j.H enough for the S hit at the optimum height for the OTG super follow up. People who have been doing aerial raves since the VS games know the timing and the jump arc but for beginners its completely new territory.

 

[Shouta]

Kokonoe getting banned at Rebel Up, potentially being extended to TRB/SCR. rip science
https://twitter.com/jyosua/status/425680742266310656

She's not being banned up in the PNW though. NWM will probably have her legal as far as the discussion has gone.

 

[notworksafe]

Give your mom an arcade stick and tell her to a decent link combo in AE. It won't happen even if you give her a week.

Chains are inherently easier than links. Nothing wrong with that, but it's reality.

 

[commanderpepper]

All this Kokonoe talk is making Blazblue look like a game I wouldn't want to play.

 

[Nyoro SF]

All this Kokonoe talk is making Blazblue look like a game I wouldn't want to play.

Uh... on what terms

Like are you frightened of Kokonoe

 

[chriskun]

More inputs means more chances to mess up.

Beginners mess up aerial combos all the time. They either don't jump right, don't jump at the right angle or mash to get more Ms than they need or they don't delay the j.H enough for the S hit at the optimum height for the OTG super follow up. People who have been doing aerial raves since the VS games know the timing and the jump arc but for beginners its completely new territory.

I started up a weekly/biweekly get together with some of my friends to try and get them into fighting games several years ago. They LOVED Sf4 and many of them mashed out dps and j.hk, sweeps for hours on end. However, when marvel came out, I tried to teach it to them but it was a completely lost cause. Its as exactly as you said with the aerial combos, the timing and jump arcs were to hard for them to master. Also the inputs for MVC3 are much more strict than SF4, there is no mashing dp or churning butter for and spd.

 

[Beckx]

That's an amazing printscreen :lol
Shoutouts to casperOne

This should've been the response to the guy who said he'd listen to what Ricky has to say about whether characters are balanced in AE.

-------------------

Be safe LordJim.

-------------------

Hakan at 37 in EH article. Keep sleeping on him.

 

[SixMachine]

Just telling someone to go into normal > command normal > into special is tricky for some people to use in a match in KOF13, but I think that it's because relative to something like sf4 or mvc3, it's harder to visually confirm and do a proper ending. Like Kyo's df. D is a double kick low that you can confirm into and you have to cancel on the first low hit, which means you have to decide if you want to go for the juggle or something more safe by the time it hits.

 

[southerncross]

A bit off-topic, but I wanted to say goodbye to everyone here.
I leave to do my army service in a few hours and internet access will be limited.
These threads were pretty much the only ones I semi-consistently posted on neogaf and posts by members here are what led me to the forum in the first place.

I hope the rest of 2014 is filled with good news for fighting games and even better events.
And less shitty reboots of video game series nobody wanted.

Have fun you all.

Always enjoyed your posts, best of luck.

 

[chriskun]

Give your mom an arcade stick and tell her to a decent link combo in AE. It won't happen even if you give her a week.

Chains are inherently easier than links. Nothing wrong with that, but it's reality.

You don't have to do links in SF4 to have fun at a beginner lever. I don't think you can see the forest through the trees here.

 

[commanderpepper]

Uh... on what terms

Like are you frightened of Kokonoe

This is the 4th or 5th installation for this series and a character like her exists. I would expect a more balanced game even though I know balance doesn't mean good. Also I have to wait until March to get the game in NA. I think I'll just skip this game.

 

[Dahbomb]

Give your mom an arcade stick and tell her to a decent link combo in AE. It won't happen even if you give her a week.

Chains are inherently easier than links. Nothing wrong with that, but it's reality.

You don't need links to play at the beginner level in AE. Just like you don't need to learn fly/unfly combos in Marvel 3 to play at the beginner level or learn plink dashing.

It's about doing some damage off of a clean hit. You can do around 15-20% with an easy jump, normal into special move in AE. In Marvel 3 you can do around 40-50% on ONE character with the basic chain combo into super which comes out to around the same % life loss in AE if you account for all 3 characters.

 

[notworksafe]

Except a beginner wants to do "cool shit", not count their damage. Guess which game makes it easier to do something that looks cool?

Random observation: Dante seems to attract the most noobs when we do big public events. People like the flashy character.

 

[Horseress]

A bit off-topic, but I wanted to say goodbye to everyone here.
I leave to do my army service in a few hours and internet access will be limited.
These threads were pretty much the only ones I semi-consistently posted on neogaf and posts by members here are what led me to the forum in the first place.

I hope the rest of 2014 is filled with good news for fighting games and even better events.
And less shitty reboots of video game series nobody wanted.

Have fun you all.

Stay safe man, see you in a few months

 

[Clawww]

Except a beginner wants to do "cool shit", not count their damage. Guess which game makes it easier to do something that looks cool?

ppl wanna win

links are hard but it's easier to keep up with what's going on in SF4. jump in combos or just throwing fireballs at one another is exciting for noobs. I'd definitely hand SF to a beginner before Marvel. it's far less overwhelming to get into.

I agree that marvel looks cool and hype and flashy and that it can draw people in...but it's also easy to claim that SF is less daunting with its classic characters and slower, 1-on-1 pacing.

 

[Nyoro SF]

This is the 4th or 5th installation for this series and a character like her exists. I would expect a more balanced game even though I know balance doesn't mean good. Also I have to wait until March to get the game in NA. I think I'll just skip this game.

Not a prob. The game is definitely not balanced as well as it could be, and I've lost a bit of faith myself in Arcsys FG dev team because of it.

Still fun to play though when you main

Spoiler

Hakumen

 

[theprodigy]

on a tangent to this discussion, which game do you guys think has the largest gap between casual play and high-level play?

 

[chriskun]

Except a beginner wants to do "cool shit", not count their damage. Guess which game makes it easier to do something that looks cool?

Random observation: Dante seems to attract the most noobs when we do big public events. People like the flashy character.

notworksafe you represent a large group of people on this forum that are so neck deep in this shit that you have completely lost touch with people who are not neck deep in it. I don't think you have ever tried to teach someone who has no experience with playing these games.

 

[Dahbomb]

Except a beginner wants to do "cool shit", not count their damage. Guess which game makes it easier to do something that looks cool?

So now you are just moving the goal post to say "which game has easier to do cool shit".

on a tangent to this discussion, which game do you guys think has the largest gap between casual play and high-level play?

Probably Smash Melee and MVC2. Like in MVC2 when you get trounced you get fucking trounced.

 

[notworksafe]

ppl wanna win

links are hard but it's easier to keep up with what's going on in SF4. jump in combos or just throwing fireballs at one another is exciting for noobs. I'd definitely hand SF to a beginner before Marvel.

no, they want to feel like a winner. marvel makes you feel like a complete badass just from mashing some shit which is exactly what the complete beginner wants.

notworksafe you represent a large group of people on this forum that are so neck deep in this shit that you have completely lost touch with people who are not neck deep in it. I don't think you have ever tried to teach someone who has no experience with playing these games.

except for the events that i help run at comic and anime conventions all over the country? to be honest, i've probably got more time under my belt helping everyone from kids to their parents to a random star trek fan that walks by our booth than anyone here.

first game i show these people is marvel. to be honest i'll probably start them on killer instinct (depending on age) once we get xbox ones. it's even easier to help a beginner with that than it is anything else right now.

 

[hertog]

ppl wanna win

links are hard but it's easier to keep up with what's going on in SF4. jump in combos or just throwing fireballs at one another is exciting for noobs. I'd definitely hand SF to a beginner before Marvel.

Injustice is a great beginners game. 1 vs 1, easy inputs and combo's

 

[Revven]

Not sure if this was posted yet, but Clashtournaments uploaded all of the Project M Top 8 in a playlist here -- so if you missed it and wanted to see what the hype was all about there it is. Good variety in the Top 8 (and even Top 16, but the videos for that aren't uploaded).

 

[chriskun]

Except a beginner wants to do "cool shit", not count their damage. Guess which game makes it easier to do something that looks cool?

Random observation: Dante seems to attract the most noobs when we do big public events. People like the flashy character.

percentages aside, seeing a life bar go down a large amount is very exciting to a beginner, especially if they understand what happened.

 

[Threi]

*watches apex melee finals*

you know...it's easier to follow what's going on in SF4, i think that would be an easier game to hand to beginners than smash bros

 

[Horseress]

on a tangent to this discussion, which game do you guys think has the largest gap between casual play and high-level play?

Of the recent games, KoFXIII. Learning to do HD combos is not easy at all and having it in your arsenal is such a important thing

Not sure if this was posted yet, but Clashtournaments uploaded all of the Project M Top 8 in a playlist here -- so if you missed it and wanted to see what the hype was all about there it is. Good variety in the Top 8 (and even Top 16, but the videos for that aren't uploaded).

Oh shit, thanks, I was looking for that earlier

 

[theprodigy]

Not sure if this was posted yet, but Clashtournaments uploaded all of the Project M Top 8 in a playlist here -- so if you missed it and wanted to see what the hype was all about there it is. Good variety in the Top 8 (and even Top 16, but the videos for that aren't uploaded).

to add on to the character variety angle, the only character used in top 8 by more than one person was Fox (how ironic), but only two players (M2K and DEHF) used him and neither of them did so all the time anyway

edit: who was 9-16 anyway?

 

[sixteen-bit]

*watches apex melee finals*

you know...it's easier to follow what's going on in SF4, i think that would be an easier game to hand to beginners than smash bros

Is the 4th place match up on youtube yet?

 

[commanderpepper]

on a tangent to this discussion, which game do you guys think has the largest gap between casual play and high-level play?

Melee?

 

[chriskun]

*watches apex melee finals*

you know...it's easier to follow what's going on in SF4, i think that would be an easier game to hand to beginners than smash bros

Well beginners aren't gonna be playing that game at a high level, you need to dream dumber my dear.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

on a tangent to this discussion, which game do you guys think has the largest gap between casual play and high-level play?

Igo

 

[Beckx]

Except a beginner wants to do "cool shit", not count their damage.

Yep. I end up teaching young players (my kids & their friends - I use "teach" loosely here because I'm no good). They aren't looking to pick up fighting games as a career aspiration, they want to play because it looks fun. Doing cool stuff is what draws them in, and it's what they want to do.

If people get drawn in and want to play seriously, they'll learn the more complicated stuff. It is why I like P4A, its the easiest to pick up and do amazing stuff. Marvel's simple mode allows the same thing but because it ends up feeling like it's just random button presses I think it's a wrong turn.

 

[racketpunch]

on a tangent to this discussion, which game do you guys think has the largest gap between casual play and high-level play?

MVC2

 

[Curry-Hakase]

This is the 4th or 5th installation for this series and a character like her exists. I would expect a more balanced game even though I know balance doesn't mean good. Also I have to wait until March to get the game in NA. I think I'll just skip this game.

You'll be skipping for a long time. Welcome to ASW games, +R still has tons of bullshit(and when everyone has bs, then no one has bs!) despite being their 6th revision now.
BBCSEX was arguably the most balanced BB (before the BBCP console characters came out) and it was a snooze fest.
I'm not making excuses for Kokonoe's existence but the game has a lot to offer if you come into it with an open mind and you're looking for something different.

on a tangent to this discussion, which game do you guys think has the largest gap between casual play and high-level play?

Smash

 

[Revven]

edit: who was 9-16 anyway?

The only ones that stick out on my mind at the moment are Axe using Pikachu, Taj using Mewtwo, and ChuDat using Kirby -- don't know what places they got, either. But Top 16 containing a Pikachu and a Kirby is pretty good already.

I think KoreanDJ was prettyyyy close to Top 16 with his Mewtwo but I'm not 100% sure how close.

Don't have the results on me or the bracket to look at the player names and recall who they played.

 

[Slamtastic]

I don't often like to complain about being ignored, but while people are posing questions to the thread regarding fighting game design, especially questions of inputs and excecution:

There's also the fact that in Injustice to do attacks with different variations (screen position close/medium/far or projectile speed slow/medium/fast) you input the move, then hold a direction on the stick during the move's startup to define which version you want.

Does anyone legit have a problem with that? Or have a problem with the philosophy of using the same button, but different inputs for variations of moves (D,F for Grappling Hook, D,B for upward Grappling Hook, etc.) instead of the other way around?

And here's another question regarding how NRS does things: Not having a special strength for every attack strength (LP HP or L M H). Do you think this is okay? Does Ryu really NEED 3 Hadokens?

 

[Threi]

Well beginners aren't gonna be playing that game at a high level, you need to dream dumber my dear.

I'm just saying man they will fall off the ledge a couple times and never want to play smash again.

At least when you mash in street figher you won't wind up damaging yourself

 

[QisTopTier]

Fuck Kokonoe

 

[notworksafe]

I'm just saying man they will fall off the ledge a couple times and never want to play smash again.

At least when you mash in street figher you won't wind up damaging yourself

There's not even life bars in Smash. How are the beginners gonna love a game where you can't see a life bar go down?

 

[Silky]

on a tangent to this discussion, which game do you guys think has the largest gap between casual play and high-level play?

KOF, Marvel 2

 

[toddhunter]

Yes Ryu needs 3 fireballs to mix up the speed.

This is the 4th or 5th installation for this series and a character like her exists. I would expect a more balanced game even though I know balance doesn't mean good. Also I have to wait until March to get the game in NA. I think I'll just skip this game.

Skip a game for what a simple patch will fix? Come on, BBCP is full of bullshit with every character. If you ever get to the point where balance is even a problem you are doing extremely well.

 

[Orpheus Telos]

Not sure if this was posted yet, but Clashtournaments uploaded all of the Project M Top 8 in a playlist here -- so if you missed it and wanted to see what the hype was all about there it is. Good variety in the Top 8 (and even Top 16, but the videos for that aren't uploaded).

Do you know if it's possible to get Project M working on the Wii U? I do still have my Wii, but it's out in the living room where people are watching TV all the time so it would be more convenient if I could get it working on the Wii U.

 

[Beckx]

There's not even life bars in Smash. How are the beginners gonna love a game where you can't see a life bar go down?

Duh. The modern trend is to pull in players by letting them see bars go up.

Do you know if it's possible to get Project M working on the Wii U? I do still have my Wii, but it's out in the living room where people are watching TV all the time so it would be more convenient if I could get it working on the Wii U.

Lemme find you a link. It's possible but there's a problem with it trying to delete certain files.
Edit: I can't find the link. I found more posts saying the hackless method works fine. If I can find the other post I will link it here.