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Fighting Games Weekly | Jan 20-26 | I Can't Believe It's Not A Fighting Game

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undersakura

Neo Member
enzo_gt said:
You mean known reasons such as not being able to come to an agreement on the large-scale corporate monetization of their properties MLG wants to do and them not agreeing about how to handle relations with the existing, grassroots community.

Matt Dahlgren said a big reason why they went with IPL before it folded was that they wanted to work with the existing community and help it grow as well rather than do their own thing and potentially cause segregation.
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I really like how hostile the FGC is to elevating the "top players" sky high like the esports games do.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
RIP Namco Bandai. It was a really good run :(

undersakura said:
I really like how hostile the FGC is to elevating the "top players" sky high like the esports games do.
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Why is elevating players to a higher plateau inherent to working with MLG but not other methods? Capcom even said it themselves, who cares if you're just creating more long term problems.
 
C

Clawww

Member
undersakura said:
I really like how hostile the FGC is to elevating the "top players" sky high like the esports games do.
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I love that about the FGC--people get called out on being 'hollywood.' not to say top players aren't a major point of interest, but it's far less obnoxious than something like the Dota 2 scene, where literally every word or tweet from Dendi or Bulldog is something people slurp over and meme-ify.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
El Sloth said:
I hope Arturo doesn't mind me posting this here, but since you guys were talking about similar things a few days ago I thought it was relevant:
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5) twitter wars, while hilarious, are like the old bullshit IRC days..except everyone can see them. i'm sure people that would want to sponsor the fgc see those... and wonder... why get involved?*
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* Note other public places to be careful about what you say include being on stream, in person at a tournament or riding in a car with friends.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Clawww said:
I love that about the FGC--people get called out on being 'hollywood.' not to say top players aren't a major point of interest, but it's really annoying compared to the Dota 2 scene where literally every word or tweet from Dendi or Bulldog is something people slurp over and meme-ify.
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Nah man its all about EE-sama.

The DOTA 2 players are pretty big but the community is just really shit. I mean the Navi fanboys are just a different creature altogether compared to your average stream monster.

I don't thinks that's e sports doing... that's just the average player in a DOTA 2 game. You run into them all the time with their wannabe Dendi plays.
 
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Infinite

Member
The big take aways from Arturo's post is self sufficiency and sustainability. At the end of the day the esports model is flimsy so we have to ensure that we can do what we love doing on our own and keep grassroots events up and running. Becoming a pro gamer is a not a career, this is a hobby that you can make a small hustle out of. Nothing more.
 
C

Clawww

Member
Dahbomb said:
Nah man its all about EE-sama.

The DOTA 2 players are pretty big but the community is just really shit. I mean the Navi fanboys are just a different creature altogether compared to your average stream monster.

I don't thinks that's e sports doing... that's just the average player in a DOTA 2 game. You run into them all the time with their wannabe Dendi plays.
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yea, my comparison is pretty unfair. Dota's much bigger and the online nature makes it a different beast from a scene built around open-entry local tournaments.
 
M

MiniBossBattle

Member
Infinite said:
The big take aways from Arturo's post is self sufficiency and sustainability. At the end of the day the esports model is flimsy so we have to ensure that we can do what we love doing on our own and keep grassroots events up and running. Becoming a pro gamer is a not a career, this is a hobby that you can make a small hustle out of. Nothing more.
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Stay in school kids.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Infinite said:
The big take aways from Arturo's post is self sufficiency and sustainability. At the end of the day the esports model is flimsy so we have to ensure that we can do what we love doing on our own and keep grassroots events up and running. Becoming a pro gamer is a not a career, this is a hobby that you can make a small hustle out of. Nothing more.
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Agreed.
 
U

undersakura

Neo Member
enzo_gt said:
RIP Namco Bandai. It was a really good run :(


Why is elevating players to a higher plateau inherent to working with MLG but not other methods? Capcom even said it themselves, who cares if you're just creating more long term problems.
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It doesn't have anything to do with MLG. I like the community more than the stars and the viewing public/plebs.

I'm not really sure what the long term problems are. Something like what happened to Smash when MLG picked it up?
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Clawww said:
yea, my comparison is pretty unfair. Dota's much bigger and the online nature makes it a different beast from a scene built around open-entry local tournaments.
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DOTA 2 is fairly open too... the TI for example is open to all teams. You just have to do really well in the qualifiers. Most leagues are open too especially the numerous Euro/NA leagues.

The problem is that the skill gap is too high when its a matter of 5v5. Plus sponsorship means better training equipment, regimen, coaching and other resources which leads to more match experience at the highest level and fine tuning of raw talent.

I mean it would be like ChrisG being sponsored and being forced to train 8 hours a day with one person analysing his matches and pointing out stuff to him while having a Viscant tier coach doing all the theory craft and research for him. You think he's good now but with access to all of those resources he would be a monster. I mean you can see the difference between coached Infiltration and non coached Infiltration.
 
chriskun

chriskun

Member
Silver_key said:
Civilized folk always pay for the assholes. Soccer fans become banana-throwing racists. You have to drink out of plastic at U.S. stadiums. Heck, I don't know if mini-bats are given out at baseball games anymore.

The sad thing is that we all know that bad behavior is not a forgone conclusion. There are weak-willed people who get caught up in the waves of bad behavior and those who purposefully go into any popular stream and try to ruin things. They should be removed in favor of people who enjoy the game (or heaven forbid want to learn or experience something new). No mercy and no apologies. Apex sub-chat was good, as was the unofficial poverty chat (with under 3000 viewers).
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I dont think you can compare physical violence with chat. I really dont think its the stream chat that is the thing thatbrings the "fgc" down, its the people on camera who have had the most dramatic effect. The comments in stream chat are comparable to the penis that is scribbled in every bathroom stall.
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
arturo on facebook

3) sustainability is key. I can't stress this enough. its time to stop waiting for a golden goose that will most likely never come (hi guys it hasn't come in 15-20 years now) and create it ourselves through hard work/perseverance/staying in the black. this is why I personally try to keep my expenses lean, save up a bunch, only invest in equipment when it makes sense. of course you need to spend money to make money, but this comes with S U S T A I N A B I L I T Y
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this is one i think a lot of players have to keep in mind. every time some start up or dodgy character comes promising money a lot of players (fchamp) end up throwing other event runners under the bus. shitty attitudes like this are gonna prevent people from wanting to stick around long term.
 
H

Holy Order Sol

Member
Infinite said:
The big take aways from Arturo's post is self sufficiency and sustainability. At the end of the day the esports model is flimsy so we have to ensure that we can do what we love doing on our own and keep grassroots events up and running. Becoming a pro gamer is a not a career, this is a hobby that you can make a small hustle out of. Nothing more.
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Basically. People buying into the narrative and coming into this with the expectation of getting their hands on money that doesn't exist has become a problem in and of itself too.
 
C

Clawww

Member
Dahbomb said:
DOTA 2 is fairly open too... the TI for example is open to all teams. You just have to do really well in the qualifiers. Most leagues are open too especially the numerous Euro/NA leagues.
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emphasis on 'local.' leagues and tournaments for dota 2 are open, yeah, but competition that's exclusively online until a top bracket is quite different from joe schmo signing up for EVO and possibly being able to face the absolute best, or even just squaring off against other people face to face week in and week out at locals. it's fundamentally different. and, like you pointed out, the barrier to entry is also extremely high in terms of skill and knowledge, multiplied by five, and, most crucially, the difficulty of creating a team and making it work. that shit is no joke even from just a purely social standpoint.
 
K

Kumubou

Member
Karsticles said:
I agree with you except for that last part. How is Capcom the killer?
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If they pushed the competitive side of SF4/MvC3 with the same amount of effort and resources that Riot and Valve have... fighting games would be in within an order of magnitude of the size of LoL/DotA2. It would be way bigger than it is now... but Capcom Japan doesn't give a damn. I think they're sitting on a huge opportunity, especially in Japan. I'm still shocked that there were more people watching the Evo finals on Nico than on Twitch -- never mind that it was morning during SF4 finals in Japan! I want to throw a razz at Bamco too. If they had a proper competitive league for Gundam EXVS, that would be mind-bogglingly popular over there.

(Sega, being Sega, made their push about 10 years too early, but that's neither here nor there...)

enzo_gt said:
Why is elevating players to a higher plateau inherent to working with MLG but not other methods? Capcom even said it themselves, who cares if you're just creating more long term problems.
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I don't think it's specific to MLG but it's something that any major corporation would want -- they would be looking to push personalities hard and fast. Getting recognizable players turned into celebrities would be a huge boon for their advertising. Just look at the difference with how top SC2 and LoL players are treated versus how top FG players are treated. And I can see why a lot of the not-so-top but involved players and people would not like that. That sort of growth is not fun if you're not getting a cut of the action.
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
Fersis said:
Bu bu bu... but i liked you :(
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The only wrestling I like is the one behind closed doors. :p

So did Champ go to this tournament? Kinda hard to think he did when he was streaming from his place last night. Unless he hauled ass over there.
 
P

poopninjamvc3mk

I sucked six dicks to get this tag.
Dictator93 said:
Are there any great KOF streamers? I have been looking but have had trouble finding much if any.
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Renic whenever he streams and Juicebox whens he's not going insane playing SSF4 and saying fuck this game every few minutes. Also CafeID if you mind foreign languages.
 
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