Osu 16 Bit
Member
It is. I should have continued to say it's not a ridiculous comeback mechanic. I am not opposed to comeback mechanics, just lazy and overly powerful ones.
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Fighting Games Weekly | Sept 15-21 | Mewwho?
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
It is. I should have continued to say it's not a ridiculous comeback mechanic. I am not opposed to comeback mechanics, just lazy and overly powerful ones.
totally agree.
its become a dirty word when i think they are fine most of the time.
I shouldn't feel this way but I kinda think that Smash on the 3DS was a generation too early between the ergonomics of the system and what it introduced in regards to limitations (r.i.p. Ice Climbers).
I'm down to play both. Seems like they'll be the big focuses for me (+ Project M).
I'm down to play both. Seems like they'll be the big focuses for me (+ Project M).
Osu 16 Bit
Member
Injustice wager is great. You have to decide when to use it, it use resources to regain life, you cannot take their life only regain yours, and there's strategies to prevent you from being able to activate it. It's much better than something like Rage in Tekken where it was obvious they wanted a new mechanic as a bullet point and on the plus side got to help weaker players getting bodied in arcades.
A burst isn't a comeback mechanic, it's a resource both players can have access to at any point in a match. Awakening in P4U is a comeback mechanic, as is the meter drip feed in BB.
I'm not a big fan of Mortal kombat but mk9 was one of the better balanced and fair games mechanics wise.
-no in your face BS come back mechanic.
-first hit gets a little bonus (loved this)
-breakers were well done and helped curb the "getting combined for 30 secs" BS I hate in fighting games
-rounds end and start in approximately the same location, you earned that corner you get to keep it.
-no in your face BS come back mechanic.
-first hit gets a little bonus (loved this)
-breakers were well done and helped curb the "getting combined for 30 secs" BS I hate in fighting games
-rounds end and start in approximately the same location, you earned that corner you get to keep it.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Well damn what isn't a comeback mechanic then if bursts and meter gain during combos are now? lol
Well I figured when people use "comeback mechanic" they meant mechanics that are put in place for no other reason than to give the losing player ammunition to stage a comeback with
Burst mechanics and even stuff like Clash in Injustice add a layer of strategy to the game. They aren't get out of jail free cards and can be taken into account by the party with the advantage. Bursts can be baited and punished for more damage and there are strings in injustice I believe that are unclashable are there not? and even after a successful clash players then have to make a decision with their meter for wager. Do I keep my bar or do I deny the other player the benefit of the clash?(I don't know shit about Injustice)
Meter gain is the same. Top players know how much meter their combos give their opponent and can make a decision to use combo routes that minimize that gain in exchange for damage or positioning if the situation calls for it.
I don't think they should be lumped in the same category as mechanics that just get more potent the longer you sit on them/the more you're losing like X Factor and SF4's revenge meter. There's no real strategy or decision making there beyond deciding when to use this superfluous resource for big damage.
Well I figured when people use "comeback mechanic" they meant mechanics that are put in place for no other reason than to give the losing player ammunition to stage a comeback with
Burst mechanics and even stuff like Clash in Injustice add a layer of strategy to the game. They aren't get out of jail free cards and can be taken into account by the party with the advantage. Bursts can be baited and punished for more damage and there are strings in injustice I believe that are unclashable are there not? and even after a successful clash players then have to make a decision with their meter for wager. Do I keep my bar or do I deny the other player the benefit of the clash?(I don't know shit about Injustice)
Meter gain is the same. Top players know how much meter their combos give their opponent and can make a decision to use combo routes that minimize that gain in exchange for damage or positioning if the situation calls for it.
I don't think they should be lumped in the same category as mechanics that just get more potent the longer you sit on them/the more you're losing like X Factor and SF4's revenge meter. There's no real strategy or decision making there beyond deciding when to use this superfluous resource for big damage.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Didn't p1 get priority on things? I forgot how it went exactly
Osu 16 Bit
Member
Yes. There are no trades in MK9. If attacks hit on the same frame player 1 always wins. Injustice and MKX have hit trades.
A comeback mechanic is a comeback mechanic, some are better or more subtle than others but if the losing player is being rewarded then it's a comeback mechanic. And just because there is a level of strategy to those mechanics doesn't make them any less of a comeback. There is huge strategic and tactical significance to usage of XF to the point where it allows great utility of other mechanics in the game (like Snapback) but it's a comeback mechanic.
The one time Burst thing is debatable because both players have access to it at the start and the mechanic doesn't particularly favor the losing player over the winning player.
The one time Burst thing is debatable because both players have access to it at the start and the mechanic doesn't particularly favor the losing player over the winning player.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
tfw you go for a cross-up in MK9
also OMG this Bayonetta 2 stream...DMC3 Vergil 3 in this mothafucka...
the weapons they added...the colors...I'm done ya'll...
also OMG this Bayonetta 2 stream...DMC3 Vergil 3 in this mothafucka...
the weapons they added...the colors...I'm done ya'll...
That boss even has Vergil's signature parry with the stagger...
http://minus.com/lbrbBNZm0CCMcd
Yea man I am done too LOL!
http://minus.com/lbrbBNZm0CCMcd
Yea man I am done too LOL!
Osu 16 Bit
Member
You are correct. b+3 and f+3 are universally unclashable as well as almost all EX moves. So there's a big meta behind clash in the second round. A lot of characters have developed unclashable damage, I can do 30%+ with Catwoman.
Riposte
Member
tfw you go for a cross-up in MK9
also OMG this Bayonetta 2 stream...DMC3 Vergil 3 in this mothafucka...
the weapons they added...the colors...I'm done ya'll...
Watching Bayonetta 2 streams before you've played the game...
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Did the same thing with Bayo 1 man...the lady has me sprung, Riposte, I failed you ;_;
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Only to its usage. It can't be influenced at all by the winning player.
While meter gain, bursts and clashes can be controlled by the winning player if they make the decision to. X Factor essentially exists outside of the game. There's no way to build it, deny it or conserve it. You can't even really punish it. The other player is going to get Level 3 xfactor as you kill their characters no matter what.
That's what makes it a comeback mechanic. It inevitably builds as you progress towards the game's win condition. It's just something you have to deal with.
One thing I found when testing this myself is that if you push certain buttons on incoming, the f.H Foot Dive whiffs and you get out of the setup as Doom takes a little bit longer to recover since it whiffs. It's been a while since I tested it, but iirc, it was Strider's j.L and j.S and I think his H Excalibur, Trish's j.S(or j.M, can't remember), and I think one of Dante's normals or specials all got out of it. Didn't test too extensively, but it's worth looking into as an escape option since I couldn't figure out a way to combo off the hit with Doom. Of course, I'm no Doom player, so you might be able to find a way to do that.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
that would be the only appearance of Karin in Alpha 4
sixteen-bit
Member
Was Ono's other PS4 game (i.e. not Deep Down) shown at TGS?
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
sixteen-bit
Member
Nice, so Darkstalkers is not dead.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
It's dead bro
Speaking of comeback mechanics, I can't wait to see a new Darkstalkers with a grand combination of X-factor, Ultras, and Gems. Capcom finally giving us what we want.
tfw you go for a cross-up in MK9
also OMG this Bayonetta 2 stream...DMC3 Vergil 3 in this mothafucka...
the weapons they added...the colors...I'm done ya'll...
I refuse to watch that thing. I've been mostly spoiler free (minus the Nintendo Direct) by complete accident and now I'm just wondering how it's all going to be for me when I play through it the first time.
xf isn't dumb because there is no strategy to it's usage, don't miss the point on why it's bad please because boy howdy it is bad
it's more like it simplifies the game for the player using it after they've entered into a scenario where they're at advantage when they're losing and using it and those scenarios are extremely common given the extreme strategic versatility of actually using the initial canceling and time stopping aspect of it.
after that it's used as a way to exacerbate underlying problems with game to the losing player's massive advantage by turning the game into guess city with low punishment for commitment on things because of the extreme speed and damage boost granted
i'm not really qualified to say how much ultras are like that though. they might be in a similar situation.
you can definitely bait and punish xfcing blocked stuff and an integral part of the incoming mixup on the last character when they've put themselves in a situation where they don't have time or resources to set up the incoming mega dumb mixup is to bait XFCing with meaty normal or blockstrings you normally would not use. just a nitpick 'cuz that's not entirely true. (i'm just nitpicking to add onto the 'the actual initial usage part can be strategically fine but it's what happens after that matters the most for comeback mechanics' argument.)
comeback mechanics aren't necessarily inherently bad by any means- it depends on how the game is designed. nothing too harmful if the mechanic and game go together well to create a better pace with strong strategic choices throughout the match.
really, anything that actively simplifies the game after it's usage really shouldn't exist. the trait of player manageability seems like it'd go a long way for determining whether the mechanic does that or not, but at the same time my brain keeps going to tvc bursts as a possible counter-example since on a surface level it seems to have that trait while also being like one of the most reviled mechanics i've ever seen
tfw you go for a cross-up in MK9
also OMG this Bayonetta 2 stream...DMC3 Vergil 3 in this mothafucka...
the weapons they added...the colors...I'm done ya'll...
I can't look. Seriously. I mean it even has the full english dub in it. After seeing all the PC Engine stuff on the Japanese e-shop, if I so much as look at that stream I'll do something dumb like get a Japanese Wii U.
Professor Beef
Banned
Fuck guilty gear
Fuck asw
Fuck asw
BumblebeeCody
Member
The fuck, did he just cough up a furball at the end there?
Glad I'm not the only one having this problem. it's even affected playing Pokemon. No idea WTF is going on.
X-factor is there to let the noobs make come backs. OK cool so now Ryu is good because of X-factor and the tier list disparity between Ryu and a character like Wesker isn't as big...but what's stopping Wesker from going into Comeback factor and then resetting the tier list again. The good get better and the crap become tolerable. What's the point of 3-1 come backs?
sixteen-bit
Member
tell us how you really feel
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I wonder if Beef got his ass handed to him by an Eddie at one point in his life and it has left him traumatized
I kept wanting that Elphelt to try throwing a grenade before switching to Shotgun stance whenever she knocked Sol down in the corner.
That was a pretty awesome read. Made me ooh outloud.
I like the way she can seemingly go from playing long range to short/mid range and back again so smoothly.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Sports Friends is also free this month. It has that BaraBariBall game that's smash like. I think a guy has a lariat in it too. Kind of wish I started that up instead because downloading, installing, and updating psabr is taking a long long time.
Professor Beef
Banned
Doesn't look like the next-gen fighting game and the PS4 game are the same thing, unless there's a Taiwanese FG developer we don't know about.
sixteen-bit
Member
BumblebeeCody
Member
I'm all for the ASW challenge.
SloaneRisette
Member
Sportsfriends is great, I bought it when it came out.
I want to see Joust on the Evo main stage next year
I like games Arc publishers that aren't theirs a lot more than actual Arcsys games.
To be fair, I haven't played UNIEL, and likely won't unless it hits PC.
Curry-Hakase
Member
I'm apparently just Anime Beef.
Huw_Dawson
Member
There was a meet up in Liverpool yesterday. I bumped into a friend of Bumblebee Cody's.
I came in with a bad mood and got stuck in it for the night. I am still in that funk now. Other people get to be good at SF, I get to be an autistic pillock.
I came in with a bad mood and got stuck in it for the night. I am still in that funk now. Other people get to be good at SF, I get to be an autistic pillock.
Still smh at people thinking the aiming and grenades were going to be bad.
Edit: Also loving that Elphelt roll. Looks really quick
Just to test my theory, I searched MvC on Twitch. Checked the top 3 streams in search results. Watched them for 10 seconds. This is what I saw.
AirJuggle stream - What I saw: Vergil's win taunt
RayRay19wun stream - What I saw: Playing in practice. Using Doom.
TheNiceLab stream - What I saw: Zero doing his loops
This is not even me opportunistically waiting for these characters to show up on stream. It's the first click.
Only basing my opinion based on what I see on streams when I decide to click every now and then. I call that tier whoring.
ICE COLD.
LOL
that''s the spirit! wait, no it's not
Passive Assassin
Member
pick a new character?
How did I miss this? lol
Yo daaammmnnnnnn
I'm enjoying Ness, DHD, Megaman, Mario, Pikachu, Kirby, Bowser Jr., and Robin in Smash 4 so far. Just completed All Star mode on Hard thanks to the AI running into PK Thunder 2. :3
