Support NeoGAF

[Rhapsody]

I don't know if people feel the same, but I had a lot more fun creating teams in MvC2 compared to 3.

Having an underused MvC2 character paired with a top tier assist added more for me compared to adding Hidden Missiles or Jam Session to my game. The neutral game becomes a lot more different and fun.

 

[oneida]

Cool, any other developer quotes?

Wasn't the 20th anniversary last year... or is it this year?

That quote was from an interview from last December - Modelah of VFDC has been graciously translating the series of interviews which have been posted since the VF20th anniversary site launched.

The 20th anniversary was Dec 2013 but someone at SEGA has been maintaining that page for the past year, adding new interviews and videos periodically.

It was last updated

today

 

[Anth0ny]

Why is Marvel 2 so fun to watch? I'm hooked right now.

Bring back Marvel 2, damn it. While we're at it, bring back Third Strike and ST. With Melee, we'll have complete CRT saturation at Evo.

 

[SixMachine]

Why is Marvel 2 so fun to watch? I'm hooked right now.

I really liked Marvel 2 even though I usually just played low tier character because I was a fan of them. A lot of it has to do is that I feel both players always feel like they are in the action except for a moment when someone gets an assist snapbacked into death. The combos are short enough and even when they do something like a ROM loop, they eventually go into a reset, which is much more entertaining to watch than watching someone like Doom otg the same person many times in a row to death.

 

[Zissou]

agreed. i think its a rad game but i think this is true for like every old/revered fighting game. more a reflection on the people watching it rather than the games themselves. stream monsters suck in that way.

Man, koogy/viscant going in on stream monsters/e-sports stuff on twitter atm

Jay Snyder ‏@JayViscant 4 hours ago
People should play what they want whether it has critical approval or not. The Capcom FGC is coming dangerously close to SF4 only in places.

Jay Snyder ‏@JayViscant 4 hours ago
If anything the current FGC is a fascinating study in social media and perception. I said it during my UFGT panel but I'll say it again.

Jay Snyder ‏@JayViscant 4 hours ago
Stream monsters killed SFxT, not the players. Complaining on streams and forums damaged the game's longevity more than any gameplay issue

Jay Snyder ‏@JayViscant 4h4 hours ago
And in Marvel right now the "lol ded gaem" meme has shaped perception even though participation is still strong. Who truly holds the power?

BROKENTIER ‏@brokentier 4 hours ago
Play the games you have the most fun with. #fgc101

BROKENTIER ‏@brokentier 4 hours ago
There’s nothing wrong with playing ANY game. Everyone has their preference, and at the end of the day it’s important to show respect to all.

m•o•n•o*k•o•o•g•y ‏@koogyplz 4 hours ago
when did we start playing fighting games to entertain people on the internet? fuck

m•o•n•o*k•o•o•g•y ‏@koogyplz 4 hours ago
i played fighting games to beat the shit out of my friends and have fun. i guess the business side of things took off and culture went w/ it

HONDUE GONDUE ‏@honzogonzo 4 hours ago
"marvel is a dumb ez mode game pick vergil and win" - dumb motherfucker 2014

 

[Rhapsody]

In relation to that, Prog did a write up about that mentality

http://smashboards.com/threads/an-open-letter.370567/

 

[Azure J]

Oh shit, Eliza's out? Looks like I'm throwing Skullgirls onto the pile again. Xrd, Smash 4, UNiEL & Skullgirls sounds like a good batch.

 

[Karsticles]

If there's one thing I really miss from the original MvC series it's Jin. I miss my boy ;_;



You mean OP Sentinel? Yeah, I miss him. It was so strange how he got such a huge health nerf in MvC3 just a short while after launch.

Nah, I just mean that Sentinel, as the kind of character he was, was fundamentally changed in MvC3 to a completely different kind of character. Painwheel is more like MvC2 Sentinel than MvC3 Sentinel is.

 

[CommandThrower]

Man, koogy/viscant going in on stream monsters/e-sports stuff on twitter atm

Absolutely love these quotes. I echo every sentiment.

 

[Beats]

Oh shit, Eliza's out? Looks like I'm throwing Skullgirls onto the pile again. Xrd, Smash 4, UNiEL & Skullgirls sounds like a good batch.

Same for me. I hope the NA release isn't too far off from the JP release for Xrd.

 

[enzo_gt]

I don't know if people feel the same, but I had a lot more fun creating teams in MvC2 compared to 3.

Having an underused MvC2 character paired with a top tier assist added more for me compared to adding Hidden Missiles or Jam Session to my game. The neutral game becomes a lot more different and fun.

I think it might be because I didn't play MvC2 at as high of a level as I played MvC3, but it was more fun to play relatively weaker characters in MvC2 because you didn't need to know as much character-specific information. Ironic considering MvC3 has magic series and all that, but those don't get you very far and aren't so practically universal.

Man, koogy/viscant going in on stream monsters/e-sports stuff on twitter atm

Facts only. We have a lot of this shit in these threads too.

I think something that confounds these complaints is the online focus of games today, not just media. Some people straight up won't buy a game because they know the community, online or offline, will die out in weeks. And I have difficulty blaming them for that.

 

[fader]

Man, koogy/viscant going in on stream monsters/e-sports stuff on twitter atm

I gotta agree with them. There was nothing wrong with the new SFxT but stream monsters just gutted it and it eventually stopped showing up on main streams and because of that participation dropped.

 

[Grakl]

Man, koogy/viscant going in on stream monsters/e-sports stuff on twitter atm

Definitely true shit. It sucks that people have to cater to stream monsters -- maybe it's a loud minority that's shitty, but damn are they loud.

 

[Zissou]

Maybe there needs to be an effort going forward where major streamers don't tolerate hate for the the sake of hate (completely non-constructive criticism).

 

[fader]

Definitely true shit. It sucks that people have to cater to stream monsters -- maybe it's a loud minority that's shitty, but damn are they loud.

i feel like the FGC just gives stream monsters way too much power.

 

[Infinite]

idk ever since marvel came out I see stream monsters shit on anything that's not marvel or street fighter. I don't think the issue is that stream monsters shit on games so they don't get stream the issue is people not playing the games enough to warrant it being streamed.

 

[CurlyW]

idk ever since marvel came out I see stream monsters shit on anything that's not marvel or street fighter. I don't think the issue is that stream monsters shit on games so they don't get stream the issue is people not playing the games enough to warrant it being streamed.

Stream monsters don't even really like Marvel anymore.

 

[Retro_]

Maybe there needs to be an effort going forward where major streamers don't tolerate hate for the the sake of hate (completely non-constructive criticism).

I think the community in general just needs to be less apathetic and negative in general

I mean we can blame it on the stream monsters but we do the same shit in here as well. The guys you're quoting have done the same shit. I know I've done the same shit as well.

We just gotta try and be better. Have to kill all the negative "memes" associated with games.No more "play it for a week and move on" for ASW games or complaining about NRS art direction or calling marvel dead for easy laughs or whatever. We're hurting the growth of our scene by making jokes about existing games while forever waiting for new ones, instead of just enthusiastically playing what's actually in front of us

 

[enzo_gt]

I think if you cycle social media or forums enough, you will involuntarily sharpen your critical eye just because of the sheer number of perspectives you are exposed to. And when you cut away from the pictures of kittens and shit you can get caught int hat cycle where seemingly no matter what you might enjoy, someone else is out there indirectly saying you should only enjoy it only to a certain extent because x or y in it sux.

Kadey posted a while back (and she's not the only one to say this) that sometimes you need to just stop watching streams and shit and just go play games. Ever since that, hey, I've been having more fun playing games!

Spoiler

not fightans tho

To go full circle on the MvC2 thing, people can't accept a good, solid B game that has problems anymore (unless it's made by Platinum or the trendy studio of the moment). Either it's crack, or that texture is fucked up fuck this game wdh. Look at 8.8Gate, UnchartedGate, and recently DestinyGate.

I don't even think stream monsters are given power. They are the power so long as they directly influence the business of fighting games and fighting game tournaments, and that will never go away even if eSports happens. In terms of viewership, anyways, whatever they say in stream chats has no merit or weight. You can't tell me a stream chat killed SFxTK or any other game.

 

[Infinite]

I think the community in general just needs to be less apathetic and negative in general

I mean we can blame it on the stream monsters but we do the same shit in here as well. The guys you're quoting have done the same shit. I know I've done the same shit as well.

We just gotta try and be better. Have to kill all the negative "memes" associated with games.No more "play it for a week and move on" for ASW games or complaining about NRS art direction or calling marvel dead for easy laughs or whatever.

Yeah the self-fulfilling prophecies is a big problem. Most notably with air dashers. There's also attitudes like "why play Tekken/Anime when were just going to get beat by the Japanese/Koreans" that stops people from playing. The problem is not stream monsters.

 

[kirblar]

I love SFxT, but it has real problems beyond being spectator-unfriendly.

I felt like the blow-up was more a reaction to what was going on in Japan with players picking up "camera friendly" characters. (At least w/ Koogy.)

 

[Marz]

MVC3 has DMC, Nova, Rocket Racoon, C.Viper, Dormamu, Dr.Strange, Viewtiful joe and multple RE characters in it characters in it

MVC2 has gambit, You can have that L if you really want it

Blackheart, Cable, Megaman, Jin, CapCom, Venom, Juggernaut, Colossus, Sentinel and Iron Man playable, Gambit, Charlie I could go on and on.

Oh and Rogue and Cyclops.

Who the fuck likes Viewtiful Joe and C. Viper? Lmao.



Also Stream monsters didn't kill SFxT. Next Level was getting like 5 entrants for it at the end there. Boring to watch for both streams and in-person, had no hype, and boring to play. Top players were literally only playing it last year for Capcom Cup.

 

[Nyoro SF]

There was plenty wrong with SFxT. Especially the new SFxT. I would really prefer it if people didn't make up false narratives of the past to suit their agendas and act like stream monsters caused a game to die.

It's the players that determine whether a game lives or dies. 1,000 trolling stream monsters or one player registering in a bracket; which makes a difference? It's the players that make the call. And when the players drop the game, that's what sends the message. For this case it's most certainly the right one.

 

[Zissou]

I think the community in general just needs to be less apathetic and negative in general

I mean we can blame it on the stream monsters but we do the same shit in here as well. The guys you're quoting have done the same shit. I know I've done the same shit as well.

We just gotta try and be better. Have to kill all the negative "memes" associated with games.No more "play it for a week and move on" for ASW games or complaining about NRS art direction or calling marvel dead for easy laughs or whatever. We're hurting the growth of our scene by making jokes about existing games while forever waiting for new ones, instead of just enthusiastically playing what's actually in front of us

This is a great post. I know I've been guilty of knocking certain games time to time myself, but I think everybody needs to make an effort curb senseless negativity. If people spent less time complaining (constructive criticism is cool, whining is annoying), they'd have more time to play and more games could be more active.

 

[poopninjamvc3mk]

I think the community in general just needs to be less apathetic and negative in general

I mean we can blame it on the stream monsters but we do the same shit in here as well. The guys you're quoting have done the same shit. I know I've done the same shit as well.

We just gotta try and be better. Have to kill all the negative "memes" associated with games.No more "play it for a week and move on" for ASW games or complaining about NRS art direction or calling marvel dead for easy laughs or whatever. We're hurting the growth of our scene by making jokes about existing games while forever waiting for new ones, instead of just enthusiastically playing what's actually in front of us

I don't see what's wrong with pointing out a legit criticism though, not even a meme tbh. NRS art direction/design is yikes/off putting at times, but they seem to be addressing the complaints with it getting better with each game which is a good thing. That's coming from someone who loved MK9 and even Injustice to an extent along with the older mk games.

The other two you listed are understandable though

 

[El Sloth]

Maybe there needs to be an effort going forward where major streamers don't tolerate hate for the the sake of hate (completely non-constructive criticism).

It'd be nice if Twitch were to provide more/better tools to make it easier for people to moderate chats too. Would only be a band-aid in the end I suppose, since it's not like it'd convince people to change their mentality.

 

[kirblar]

Oh, wow, so I remember hearing that Xian took the Saigon tournament.

I can't be the only one who missed that he won it playing Poison. (in addition to Gen.)

 

[vocab]

Sfxts problem that it looked and played like sfiv on the surface level. A lot of the weird nuisances of sfiv are all present. It felt bad for me personally. There was no new game feeling when I was playing. The stage length with the time outs were just so poisonous to the games life span. Plus seeing ABC into launcher got stale quick.

The tekken characters felt great, but all of it was overshadowed by the gems dlc problems and all the other mechanics that don't make much sense in the end.

 

[enzo_gt]

I love SFxT, but it has real problems beyond being spectator-unfriendly.

I felt like the blow-up was more a reaction to what was going on in Japan with players picking up "camera friendly" characters. (At least w/ Koogy.)

Yup, I don't think anything killed SFxTK but SFxTK, and top players hyping it up absurdly pre-release.

Similarly, I also don't think all of smaller games' problems are rooted in people shitting on them, I just think that the core fanbases are a lot smaller, and dwindle down quickly when people jump to whatever is new or their main thing.

 

[Marz]

Oh, wow, so I remember hearing that Xian took the Saigon tournament.

I can't be the only one who missed that he won it playing Poison.

He played Poison in Grand Finals in the second set after Gamerbee destroyed his Gen. Don't think Gamerbee had a clue what to do against Poison either he got completely shut down.

 

[Karsticles]

Question: do you all think that stream monster popularity has any correlation to how many people pick up and play a game at release?

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I will never stop complaining about NRS art design, heh.

Nobody can be negative now? Or crack jokes once in a while (key being once in a while)?

I turn chat off anyways, so I don't really care.

 

[kirblar]

Question: do you all think that stream monster popularity has any correlation to how many people pick up and play a game at release?

If a game is spectator-friendly it can be very, very good for marketing purposes- Hearthstone's pretty much the perfect example of this.

 

[Infinite]

Oh, wow, so I remember hearing that Xian took the Saigon tournament.

I can't be the only one who missed that he won it playing Poison. (in addition to Gen.)

No you wasn't.

Bonchan and Nemo thinks poison is top 5 and Poison is the most used character in the arcade rankings.

 

[Retro_]

I don't see what's wrong with pointing out a legit criticism though, not even a meme tbh. NRS art direction/design is yikes/off putting at times, but they seem to be addressing the complaints with it getting better with each game which is a good thing. That's coming from someone who loved MK9 and even Injustice to an extent along with the older mk games.

The other two you listed are understandable though

Well I think there's a time and place for it.

If the floor is open for discussion on NRS games then that kind of criticism is perfectly valid

but I mean when top 8 is on TS at a major, we don't really need people facetiously asking the thread why Wonder Woman looks like a man.

We get it. You don't like the game. That's fine. but that shouldn't prevent you from supporting the guys and girls who do.

 

[RockTurtle]

Is akuma evil?

 

[SixMachine]

Question: do you all think that stream monster popularity has any correlation to how many people pick up and play a game at release?

In a way no for the casual buyers, but for competitions yes. The reason I say this is because Netherrealm games do extremely well with consumers, but that doesn't mean that they get top spot in terms of entrants or stream viewers. Though at the beginning a lot of streams to like to give new games exposure, which does help it. Usually the games that seem to have the most entrants usually have the most viewers.

 

[Sayah]

It's not just stream monsters. Members on this very forum that are regulars hate on specific fighters despite not having played them or will go into "bitch mode" when the finals for their favorite game are being delayed on stream due to another fighter. I have no problem pulling out historical neogaf threads where people have done this.

At least I played Injustice before posting hateful messages against the game. Kappa.

 

[Sigmaah]

HONDUE GONDUE ‏@honzogonzo 4 hours ago
"marvel is a dumb ez mode game pick vergil and win" - dumb motherfucker 2014

lmfao!!!

I wonder where I see this a lot.... (Especially when it comes to zero)

 

[Crocodile]

"Your favorite game (which nobody plays) is shit! SHHHHIIIIIIIIITTTTTT!!!!!!"

is one of the more annoying, off-putting aspects of the FGC I feel. Obviously not every person can like every game, no game is above critique and none are perfect but there always seems this desire to get in jabs or what not that gets tiring after a while :/

 

[enzo_gt]

Question: do you all think that stream monster popularity has any correlation to how many people pick up and play a game at release?

Better/related question: who are stream monsters?

Any answer I can think of (reddit trolls, 4chan posters, people who troll streams, casuals, hardcore) doesn't give the full picture. If they're simply just people with money to spend, yeah it would make sense that the bigger games that sell more have more monsters/viewers in the chat parroting their agenda.

Every game pre-release has that allure phase where everyone just wants to get their hands on it or see what it is, you barely see hate before release for any game.

 

[Azure J]

Marz's post is hilarious to me as a Viper main in Marvel. Such a fun character.

I think if you cycle social media or forums enough, you will involuntarily sharpen your critical eye just because of the sheer number of perspectives you are exposed to. And when you cut away from the pictures of kittens and shit you can get caught int hat cycle where seemingly no matter what you might enjoy, someone else is out there indirectly saying you should only enjoy it only to a certain extent because x or y in it sux.

Kadey posted a while back (and she's not the only one to say this) that sometimes you need to just stop watching streams and shit and just go play games. Ever since that, hey, I've been having more fun playing games!

Spoiler

not fightans tho

To go full circle on the MvC2 thing, people can't accept a good, solid B game that has problems anymore (unless it's made by Platinum or the trendy studio of the moment). Either it's crack, or that texture is fucked up fuck this game wdh. Look at 8.8Gate, UnchartedGate, and recently DestinyGate.

I don't even think stream monsters are given power. They are the power so long as they directly influence the business of fighting games and fighting game tournaments, and that will never go away even if eSports happens. In terms of viewership, anyways, whatever they say in stream chats has no merit or weight. You can't tell me a stream chat killed SFxTK or any other game.

Your first paragraph here is spot on. In my recent times watching streams and interacting with people, I've heard people run the gamut of why X is on because "buggy mess/lolVergil/TACs", "there's only four characters;there's only the spacies/NO ITEMS FOX ONLY/shit isn't a fighting game", etc. and it's a strange situation I'm in where I generally tune in because "oh I haven't seen much of X game lately, how's it going" only to see so many detractors that I can't help but wonder if people are enjoying anything anymore. This is also pretty notable to see in Smash 4 streams where the current (misguided) conversation is "this gaem not cumpetitive" where competitive = fun to spectate. There are a lot of educated discussions going on regarding the game's competitive viability but seeing how that phrase has been warped into a catch all for "not what I want to see regardless of its prenatal meta game", I can only hope it's not falling on the sword for the deep seated transgressions of its predecessor.

The second paragraph touches mildly on something I've found weird in the last year or so of GAF discussion. There are a lot of times recently where I wonder if I'm a misnomer in GAF topics and conversations when people talk about games and I'm there playing said game and can't be on one of these extremes through the discussion.

 

[Zissou]

Question: do you all think that stream monster popularity has any correlation to how many people pick up and play a game at release?

Stream monster popularity (whether if factors in significantly or not), probably only matters down the road. I can't imagine it affects game sales/people playing the game day/week 1 in a negative way.

I think early tutorial vids and such make a big difference in a game getting off on the right competitive foot. When marvel 3 came out, SRK was putting out mini video guides for every single character so you could get an idea of how they played, tragic was releasing simple bnb videos for every character, the bradygames guide was godlike, early marvel at wnf had informative commentary explaining what was going on, etc. Of course, it being the long awaited sequel to a 10 year old game helped immensely, but people interested in the competitive side of marvel 3 were able to hit the ground running with the deluge of information out there. Has there been an equivalent to that in other fighting games?

 

[SixMachine]

Stream monster popularity (whether if factors in significantly or not), probably only matters down the road. I can't imagine it affects game sales/people playing the game day/week 1 in a negative way.

I think early tutorial vids and such make a big difference in a game getting off on the right competitive foot. When marvel 3 came out, SRK was putting out mini video guides for every single character so you could get an idea of how they played, tragic was releasing simple bnb videos for every character, the bradygames guide was godlike, early marvel at wnf had informative commentary explaining what was going on, etc. Of course, it being the long awaited sequel to a 10 year old game helped immensely, but people interested in the competitive side of marvel 3 were able to hit the ground running with the deluge of information out there. Has there been an equivalent to that in other fighting games?

IIRC Arturo and Hector from Netherrealms were doing early streams for Injustice. I got an idea of most of the playstyles watching Art. There weren't as many people as MVC3 and it didn't seem as exposed doing it but there were people.

I know with Smash 4 there is tons of tech being found and flying around on smashboards.

 

[kirblar]

On the Capcom becoming "SF4 only" stuff- I really do hope the next game isn't SF5, because they're better served having at least two IPs out and supported that don't play the same way and hit two different competitive audiences.

 

[Infinite]

On the Capcom becoming "SF4 only" stuff- I really do hope the next game isn't SF5, because they're better served having at least two IPs out and supported that don't play the same way and hit two different competitive audiences.

I think they should have three fighting games out with how they're making moves with the Pro Tour.

 

[.la1n]

I think they should have three fighting games out with how they're making moves with the Pro Tour.

I would have also settled for better post-release UMvC3 support but that ship has sailed.

 

[Village]

Blackheart, Cable, Megaman, Jin, CapCom, Venom, Juggernaut, Colossus, Sentinel and Iron Man playable, Gambit, Charlie I could go on and on.

Oh and Rogue and Cyclops.

Who the fuck likes Viewtiful Joe and C. Viper? Lmao.

.

A bunch of non relevant X men, Capcom guys, characters that are also in 3, and Megman and Venom

If you like that thats fine.

Someone said, Lets put M.O.D.O.K, Bionic commando, Taskmaster, Deadpool, Pheonix, Frank West, Aurthur and Fire Brand into A fighting game.

I like Marvel Vs Capcom more than a shit ton of non relevant x men and X men adjacent characters vs way too many sf characters also marvel vs capcom too guys. I like the variety, ( even though technically most of the marvel side and 1 of the capcom side are technically avengers in marvel 3, though that is a different situation )

 

[enzo_gt]

On the Capcom becoming "SF4 only" stuff- I really do hope the next game isn't SF5, because they're better served having at least two IPs out and supported that don't play the same way and hit two different competitive audiences.

I don't think we'll see Capcom producing and supporting two fighting games at once for a very long time.

A new Capcom FG IP is what I want most out of Capcom right now, and it's been that way for years. Next up would be SF5 then probably MvC4.

 

[Village]

The tekken characters felt great, but all of it was overshadowed by the gems dlc problems and all the other mechanics that don't make much sense in the end.

I was thinking about that.

I would play the shit out of 2d tekken, all those characters felt unique.