-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Fighting Games Weekly | Sept 29 - Oct 5 | 4th place wins a cake
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Street Fighter 5, Darkstalkers & Capcom vs Capcom would be a pretty cool trio. Enzo's idea re: a new fighting IP would be interesting but I wonder if Capcom has it in them to make a new FG series with a solid groundwork and push it to success in the current market.
FWIW, CapCom, Megaman, & Ruby Heart are legit and should have made it to 3.
Is it fair to pin what stream monsters, people who only ever watch streams and populate stream chat, say on the "FGC" as a whole though? I have a feeling that people who show up to events, to compete, volunteer, or otherwise, would feel that it is unfair. I can't remember running into many people who say things like this in person nor can I really remember many examples of people commentating on stream saying things like this. Have you run into people with this mentality before/seen people express something similar on stream?
Only thing that comes immediately to mind is Biscuits constantly shitting on Skullgirls.
Replace CapCom with the homie from star gladiator, not because he would be relevant to anything, but so eveyrone would be like " WHO?!?" like with Felicia's alternate outfit in that game.
Also Galacta, Galactu's moe daughter that is canon should have gotten into that game.
SloaneRisette
Member
It basically crashed for Pokemon X/Y
The inability of large segments of the Smash community (the online community at least) to articulate what they want in a way that makes sense to anybody else but themselves and the inability to use the English language correctly is really frustrating. It torpedoes a lot of conversations
Getting out to FGC events is very hard for me (both in terms of time and EV) so I haven't been to many. I mostly speak of my experiences online but even if they count less, they still count :/ There have been murmurings of a Smash 4 scene starting near me when the WiiU version comes out, I hope that takes off.
I don't see how some of the most popular super heroes in Marvel are "non relevant"
Who was asking for Taskmaster, MODOK, Rocket Raccoon, Firebrand, Bionic Commando, and Arthur? Very few people that's who. They're more niche and irrelevant than the Xmen characters for sure.
The Capcom cast in MvC2 does kind of suck I'll admit but the Marvel cast in MvC3 is really bad Skrull, Iron Fist, X-23, She Hulk, Shuma, are all wastes of space that could have gone to far more popular characters.
Dormammu is amazing though so they're forgiven for that at least.
I think the entire concept of a overall fighting game community. At best, it's a loose confederation of communities playing different games in the same genre, and those communities are then made up of different sub-sections themselves. The games are really only together because of past history, and the fact that it helps event organizers help make their events solvent. If SF4 was 90% of the playerbase, I don't think most TOs would bother with any of the other games, even if they were the same size (or even bigger).
On another note: I don't see why Capcom running multiple games for the Capcom Pro Tour makes any sense -- in the same genre, anyway. Somehow, I don't see them being able to develop two games of merit competitively, let alone in two completely different genres (like Blizzard and Valve has done).
On another note: I don't see why Capcom running multiple games for the Capcom Pro Tour makes any sense -- in the same genre, anyway. Somehow, I don't see them being able to develop two games of merit competitively, let alone in two completely different genres (like Blizzard and Valve has done).
Never in my life have I been so happy to be a dinosaur than the day when the eShop/Pokemon killed the network.
Digital 0 Physical 1
Edit: Whoops, I just realized I'm talking about Pokemon Bank. Why hello egg, what's it like there on my face?
No it didn't. It crashed on Christmas when all the little kids got their brand new systems but X/Y launch I had no problems.
irfaanator
Banned
been trying out ken and rise. Both don't seem that bad in combos. Trying to get some of ken's combos are a bit weird with the dog in between
Same. I went to the launch party in NYC got home and downloaded the game with no problem.
SloaneRisette
Member
At launch it took me a good while to connect to it, as well as a few others, but once I connected, I was fine.
That and it took forever for Pokemon to actually get on the eShop for some reason.
Either way, I'm sure Smash will body the eShop
USF4 doesn't require a ton of resources at this point to maintain- it's in a good spot (any future balance tweaks will likely be minor unless they're fixing a DeeJay tier character) and can be kept alive until it has a next-gen replacement.
if only... most of the mods are fgc celebs and we've exhausted this so many times. twitch needs better tools for moderating.
Capcom is just making a new series in the street fighter universe, thats all they can do with the big wigs telling them to make money. niitsuma said he aint working on fighting games anymore so GG to any good marvel game in the future.
on the third or on sunday?
unless you are living in the 90's i would not put a lot of the X men and black heart in the popular category.
Who was asking for task master,MODOK and RR?
Not many, now a lot
Also Skrull Ironfist X-23 she hulk are way more popular than a bunch of the x men you just listed. And The devs like Shuma, Not trying to be rude, your ranting sound like a guy who watched the xmen cartoons in the 90's and based his entire perception on what is and is not popular on marvel off that and does not realize that has been rendered largely irrelevant.
You suggest gambit is " popular" your shit way outdated.
X-23 and She-Hulk can get the boot but Skrull and IF? Da FUQ son, them dudes deff deserve to be in dat MAHVEL
Flying High
Member
The downside is all the work they're doing is going to make it much harder for that next-gen replacement to be successful.
I'm not saying Capcom made a perfect game, there are tons of things I'd change/fix system-wise, but it's going to be hard for a SF5 to succeed given all the effort thrown into SF4- people gonna be mad when their chars are gone.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
I'm glad someone pointed this out.
Playing a game the FGC often shits on can be annoying. Probably the worst part though is the self hatred it breeds. It's sad when NRS players call their own top players lesser players, talk about how we'd all get bodied in other games or predict our own game's demise. I'm sure it happens in all these non-Capcom communities.
the thing that u pointed out that is most important: what non-capcom game does this NOT happen to?
BRING EM OUT BRING EM OUT
Shit is the worst. It's usually Street Fighter players who come out of the woodwork for that explicit purpose or minions who don't play anymore. Almost exclusively, actually.
Lostconfused
Member
While shelf space is still relevant, it won't be for long. Digital future is here in terms of mobile gaming and its already there on PC, soon enough it will be on consoles.
Discoverability is the big problem, making sure potential buyers are aware of your game's. The more likely the buyer the more critical it is that they get exposed to your game as much as possible. Considering that Valve has redesigned their Steam front end to deal with this issue is probably a good indicator of how serious this might be.
Even better, this post applies to arcades as well!
I don't think we're full digital yet. I wanted an all digital future ever since I got into steam and stuff, but ever since games started getting delisted, rights started getting tied to things besides just you, servers getting shut off, and games started turning into services, I've been getting cold feet. I'm pretty sure it's heading there though, soon every game will have their servers shut off to get you to move over when the next one arrives. It's all just too new and there's so little out for these problems to get to the front. Even Steam's permanent solution for ownership is in limbo. I almost wish there was a bitcoin-like system used to track and permanently keep ownership and digital content accessible. Until then, I'm still buying everything retail. That thread about buying Smash digital to keep it "permanent" gave me a chuckle.
With social media, discoverability is no longer a problem IMO. Word to Mojang's marketing department.
Lostconfused
Member
It definitely still is a problem, its a deadly problem for the smaller fish trying to compete. Small games and publishers that can't afford retail space went to digital, but there is a good chance that they will get pushed out of the digital space as well.
The early responses on the new steam update from various pubs stated that their more popular games increased in sales while the less popular games dropped off even more. This is of course due to the nature of the new steam front end but it demonstrates the echo chamber effect. Popular stuff becomes more popular and the less popular stuff drops offs even more, positive and negative feedback continually reinforcing the trend.
It's not a problem for the end user, but anyone who wants operate in the digital space has to seriously think about this.
The anime communities do this as well to a lesser degree. A lot of it is like "ASW game A is better than ASW game B, Game B players could never compete in Game A" etc etc.
At the end of the day what people say really doesn't matter, but it gets hella annoying propping up games and supporting anime just to see it constantly dismissed here. I actually just stopped posting here as much because of it.
Ragingnight
Member
I've noticed with people mentioning love max, persona and uniel.
CvS2 would not last a month in this current age. People couldn't stand SFxT, and CvS2 was way more footsy base with less damage.
Karsticles
Member
The thing is this: I won't hate on Tekken anywhere but here. I do it here because we are all about fighting games. It is like a sports enthusiast club talking shit about baseball. It might be the worst sport, but it is still a sport. I love fighting games, and if all I had was Tekken, I would embrace it. It is still better than most of what is available in the gaming market.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
To me they're basically the players or people in the community that care more about the social aspects and the subculture behind the games than the games themselves.
AKA Mike Ross fans
(last time I promise)
That last two EVO threads made me so sad. Some of the best Melee I've seen in years and all FGC-GAF can do is go "furries jumping around shooting lasers" or "Melee takes too long".
Hell, I also remember people cracking on BB finals as shit got REALER THAN REAL.
Shade
I'm saying quality will shine through. Yeah, if you put bullshit out, or something with limited appeal, you will get an appropriate return out of it., and quality/appeal is a factor that heavily confounds the idea that things aren't selling because people can't find or discover them. So is a game really slept on or is it's appeal simply not as broad as someone would like?
I don't think the storefront carries the entire burden as a result, or much. You have a paradigm of gaming where people will do your marketing for you, for free, and they get some YT revenue off of it too. Some game from a nobody will become an overnight success because TotalBiscuit played it or it's kickstarter video went viral. This is not exclusive to gaming as a medium, and it's certainly not rare of a phenomenon. Minecraft out of.. essentially nothing, Alien Hominid off of Newgrounds, Flappy Bird off of essentially nothing, N+ out of Newgrounds, Dust: AET out of forums (I guess). Goes on and on.
The way I look at it, there are a lot of frequent, counter-examples that ultimately come down to appeal and a good first impression (which is way more, if not entirely, the developer's responsibility than that of the system, because the social media system is already working to their advantage and precedes even ending up on a storefront).
That's.. actually a pretty good way to put it. Damn, you might have hit the nail on the head, Retro.
Something could get popular really quickly because it gets featured by some YouTube superstars -- but how do you get their attention? It's valuable, and more and more big YouTube channels the easiest way to get a feature is to... pay for it. And then once someone puts up a video and it goes viral, a bunch of smaller players start chasing that and you have this real echo effect. I still think that while games can undersell what they "should" do, good games do get noticed at some point. I think the bigger issue is all of the stuff that could be good, but never gets the opportunity to even get that chance -- but that's life, really. Your game could have been something, but people thought they could get more clicks screaming over Five Nights at Freddy's or Goat Simulator instead, too bad.
As an aside, there's something I find really offputting about social media marketing. It feels like everything is being turned into an advertisement or an endorsement of some sort (Facebook experimenting with that literally). Everyone and everything is pushing their brands and some meme or another at all times. It's tiring.
SloaneRisette
Member
So sort of how the Smash community has erupted in the past few days?
Yeah. Also like with what Azure J said people just have to learn how to let a game they don't like shine. There's no reason for Blazblue grand finals to being on at Evo and have people say shit like "I can't wait till the next game. Accent core is a better game. Sick of this anime waifu garbage waaaaaaah". At this point you're being a nuisance
WesternHeretic
Member
And the sad thing is we will never get Marvel 4.
Wow people just now coming to terms with the current FGC culture?
Viewers equal ad revenue and when your events is funded by companies looking for exposure, you are going to put the stream on the game these "Stream Monsters" want.
And then there's this large segment of people that will stick to whats popular, getting exposure or included in EVO. This is the "I'll play it when it gets big enough" people.
The play what you have fun with get throw into the BYOC area (if the event includes one) or their hotel rooms/bathrooms if they aren't having fun with SF4, MvC3 or that new game everyone just jumped on.
Bottom Line: If you find a game you enjoy playing, play it. Ignore the hate, bring it to your local or see if your favorite forum wants to play with you and if you travel, offer to bring it and run a side event.
P.S. This forum is majority stream monsters
Viewers equal ad revenue and when your events is funded by companies looking for exposure, you are going to put the stream on the game these "Stream Monsters" want.
And then there's this large segment of people that will stick to whats popular, getting exposure or included in EVO. This is the "I'll play it when it gets big enough" people.
The play what you have fun with get throw into the BYOC area (if the event includes one) or their hotel rooms/bathrooms if they aren't having fun with SF4, MvC3 or that new game everyone just jumped on.
Bottom Line: If you find a game you enjoy playing, play it. Ignore the hate, bring it to your local or see if your favorite forum wants to play with you and if you travel, offer to bring it and run a side event.
P.S. This forum is majority stream monsters
I think part of this -- and it's more true in smaller communities, from my experience -- is that "rival" games getting that kind of shine is seen as an existential threat. It's thinking that the whole community is zero-sum: more players playing BB means fewer people playing GG or P4A or UNIEL and if it pulls in enough players, your game is going to die. It's a mistake though, as that's not how it works (and everything has to come to an end at some point). People come from other sources, people go for other reasons, people leave and come back and leave again and who knows what.
In that regard, the crowd fundamentally matters. I know personally that if a game like Melty Blood had a player base (and developer support) the size of even SF4's, I would probably still be playing it. But it doesn't, and I don't. It's still a good game... but what am I going to do, play the same few local players and then the same people at events that I've played for years already? At some point you want something different, either in the same game or in something else (or maybe in a completely different hobby). There's also the time investment issue -- learning a fighting game is non-trivial, and what's the point if you'll never get to play it with anyone?
You can pretty much skim through the EVO 2012, 2013, and 2014 threads on Neogaf and find this stuff. More often than not during EVO/other events, you have games running behind schedule and people are impatient.
I already made a big fuss about this when people here on neogaf were shitting on Melee while it was being streamed.
To give another example, I did some skimming and found this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=481615&page=122
Read from post 6093 and 5-6 pages beyond. This was during a TTT2 exhibition before UMvC3 finals. If I remember correctly, they showed this TTT2 trailer and a lot of people were salty.
The simple point is that if the community here wants to be an all-encompassing fighting game "community," then the impatience, knee jerk reactions, hate, etc. need to end. I was pretty excited to see the TTT2 trailer, for instance, but the GAF reaction was just off-putting.
As a separate question, would you rather that these "other" communities create their own separate world so they're not "in the way"? TTT2 ran pretty successfully on its own during last years Filthy Cup and the more recent StrongStyle.
The overall point is: these types of posts displaying impatience/hate only alienate the crowds from other games when a significant enough portion of GAF is hating on what you love.
I remember there being some player (FChamp?) saying how he would beat all the top players in Injustice if he picked up the game. Or something along those lines?
I don't know if I'm remembering this correctly but I know what you're saying.
My post wasn't specifically addressed to you Karst, haha. More so a general viewpoint on FGC environment. I don't want to point fingers or single anybody out.
Lostconfused
Member
Oh right, it's not in the OP but Dogura vs Galileo first to 30 is this week right? Will that be streamed or anyone have any idea?
I laughed
If it's the only game you enjoy, keep playing. If you like other games, play those other games then.
It's the current culture to play what's in style. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying that's how it is and IMO kind of annoying due to mob influence affecting what gets exposure (thus what people play).