Professor Beef
Banned
Yes, Odine. I vant to fisticuffs. I think I could take out a guy wearing one of those medical dog collars.
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FINAL FANTASY Community Thread: XV Mainline Entries and Counting
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
With the Datalog and XIII-2 the XIII ending still boils down to
eh, Etro saved us
It's cause the game unveils he Occuria and it all seems pretty cool and then suddenly you're back trying to kick out the Empire from Dalmasca as if nothing's changed.
Say what you will about XIII but they basically had this exact same plot point (a God like being manipulating history and mankind and bidding the main character to do what they wanted) but it dealt with it in a much better way. I can't even remember if in XII the party basically did what Occuria told them to do or not?
Although I have to say that just before the fight with The Undying I was kinda like 'but Venaat and Vayne actually seem to have good intentions, I don't wanna fight them'. So that's something, I guess.
The Occuria are a "mysterious ways" type of God. So they don't directly control humans but they subtly influence and manipulate key players to get them to do what they want. For example, Vaan and the ghost of Reks. The first clue that this isn't actually Reks is when Ashe is also seeing a ghost but in her case it's her dead Husband Rasler. All along those are just Occuria illusions.
It's suggested they've been doing this for a long, long time, watching the game from above and moving their pieces as needed.
Meawhile, the rogue Occuria Venaat flat out defied this method and directly approached Cid and Vayne AS an Occuria, telling them all the Gods' secrets. Venaat's motivations seem to simply be he dislikes the fact that the Occuria even do this, sort of like a rogue government employee trying to takedown the system by leaking all the secret info.
Yeah I get that. I think that one scene when Vaan and Ashe actually talk about seeing the ghosts from the past and the scene with Ashe talking to the Occuria are actually two of the best scenes in FF XII and if the whole game was as powerful or forward-moving as those, FFXII would have been a brilliant game.
Re Venaat, as I've said, at the end I kinda felt bad for wanting to go against him. I mean sure Vayne was positioned as a power-hungry jerk but Venaat's motivations were something that was very relatable. He basically wanted the 'reign of Occuria' ended and picked Vayne as his champion. It was a real shame that this revelation came late in the game and wasn't actually really developed, because in the end you just go in and kill The Undying anyway and all is well.
The more I think about the more it actually resembles FFXIII with Dysley playing his cards in Cocoon's history to achieve his own goals, but not being able to directly get involved. Then at the end when really you shouldn't be killing Orphan the party goes on to do it anyway, without any thought (which evokes the killing of The Undying who really actually wanted to take the world away from the Occuria). I could be imagining things though, it's bee years since I've played FF XII.
It starts 3 years later and takes place both on Pulse and Cocoon. But honestly you won't really be able to distinguish between the two and since you use Time gates to travel between locations it all seems like one world with different locations.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
It would've been better if Vaan wasn't even in the game to begin with.
Sarcasm?
First few hours I thought Vaan and Ashe would be on some Tidus and Yuna type stuff.
I think the FF I replayed the most was FFX-2 and FFVIII. I love FFX-2 but in FFVIII's case, it wasn't that I was head over hands in love with it or anything but I kept restarting the entire game when I got stuck on harder bosses (I was only 8 or 9 years old 
). FFVIII gave me so much trouble than FFVII gameplay wise. It's no wonder why my memories of FFVIII are colored with anger and frustration. If only the game told me that enemies scale with your level and you can refine magic from cards. I didn't find that out til last year!
Other than those, I don't think I replay FFs (well RPGs in general) often. One time deal for me until a few years past.
). FFVIII gave me so much trouble than FFVII gameplay wise. It's no wonder why my memories of FFVIII are colored with anger and frustration. If only the game told me that enemies scale with your level and you can refine magic from cards. I didn't find that out til last year! Other than those, I don't think I replay FFs (well RPGs in general) often. One time deal for me until a few years past.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Chapter 11, 12 and 13 are the worse and most boring for me, the game is way better before that. It's a classic, every Final Fantasy gets shit toward the end -.-'
The problem is... chapter 10 is only about 20-25 hours into the game. There's still about 20-25 more to go after that, or at least there was for me the first time through.
Coming off of XII... not even close.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
You know, after FFXII, I'm very very willing to hear more actors specializing in stage productions like theatre and musicals in video game dubs. Alexander O. Smith was kind of on the mark when he described stuff like flat reading, lack of proper emoting, etc. when he chose the stage actors for FFXII. Heck after Xenoblade, and now The Last Story, I'm willing to hear new blood now, including from places that aren't in NA. Good dubs for those ones.
As for FF13, Sazh, Hope, Snow, and Fang were handled better in the English version, I feel. Sazh and Hope especially. Sazh was far more believable as a father looking out for his son in English (and I felt the Japanese take on him emphasized the comic relief portion of his character as opposed to his more serious side). Vincent Martella did a good job voicing Hope even though the only things I know him from were "Phineas and Ferb" and "Everybody Hates Chris".
I don't like Ali Hillis much as Lightning, and Georgia van Cuylenburg's Vanille seemed to suffer from shitty voice direction (almost as if they told her "hey, be all perky and happy and moany and kawaii uguu~ like Yukari Fukui, okie?!).
I still like they went with the whole "they're from the land down under so make them sound Australian" bit they did with the localization.
I've replayed quite a few FFs so much that I've lost count, though (like, sometimes double-digits). I think my benchmark is typically 2-3 times. All of the numbered Suikoden games and Chrono Trigger might beat out my FF replays if we combined them, though.
I'm sure there are other people in this very thread who've replayed multiple FF games more than either of us have.
As for FF13, Sazh, Hope, Snow, and Fang were handled better in the English version, I feel. Sazh and Hope especially. Sazh was far more believable as a father looking out for his son in English (and I felt the Japanese take on him emphasized the comic relief portion of his character as opposed to his more serious side). Vincent Martella did a good job voicing Hope even though the only things I know him from were "Phineas and Ferb" and "Everybody Hates Chris".
I don't like Ali Hillis much as Lightning, and Georgia van Cuylenburg's Vanille seemed to suffer from shitty voice direction (almost as if they told her "hey, be all perky and happy and moany and kawaii uguu~ like Yukari Fukui, okie?!).
I still like they went with the whole "they're from the land down under so make them sound Australian" bit they did with the localization.
A third time? I think two playthroughs (incl. platinum run) is enough for me. I can't do it as the platinum took a lot out of me. Also Chapter 10 sucks and I have no desire to play through that again.I just ordered Final Fantasy XIII in japanese version, can't wait to play it again for the third time with original VA and subtitles now
This will be the FF I re-played the most of them all.
I've replayed quite a few FFs so much that I've lost count, though (like, sometimes double-digits). I think my benchmark is typically 2-3 times. All of the numbered Suikoden games and Chrono Trigger might beat out my FF replays if we combined them, though.
I'm sure there are other people in this very thread who've replayed multiple FF games more than either of us have.
It really wasn't that much of a difference to my ears.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
I think the theory that Squall died comes more from the fact that everything that happens after is batshit insane. Or perhaps there's just too many plotholes/unexplained things.
I love VIII, but the story has put me off a replay now for many years.
Yeah, XII had a fantastic dub. XIII was fine, but let down by whiny Hope, groany-fanservicey Vanille and personality deficient/monotone Lightning. I realize that somewhat plays to their characters though.
Same! I've replayed Suikoden 2 somewhere in the region of 20 times.
Might be a tad unrealistic, but I'm surprised nobody has started a kickstarted to get Type 0 localized. I'd do it myself but, ya know, laziness.
I dunno, I didn't really like the voice-acting in XII but maybe that was because of that effect they added to their voices. XIII did have great voice-acting sans Vanille's voice direction. It's funny, a lot of shit is given to FF X for voice acting, but Riku (who is kinda a similar character to Vanille) is much nicer to listen too (even in FF X-2).
Yeah the game literally breaks at that moment. The whole 'corridor with fights' thing starts to hit true at that stage as well. It kinda felt as if that fight with Dysley beforehand was meant to be the end of the game. I guess it's cause the game is very much driven by the character growth of the party and by Chapter 11 all the growing has been done and they revert back to their archtypes.
The only thing thing to come out of the those chapters is the fight with Cid.
Easily among my top three protagonists in FF. I actually like him better than Cloud. Also the decision to read what he's thinking was great.
There were signs that it was going to happen, unfortunately Vaan instead decides to fade into background and take Penello with him while Ashe continues to be a snobby bitch for the whole game.
I missed the boat on Squall; never liked him. But I think I was 22 or so when I played VIII for the first time, so I was well outside of the demographic he was aimed at. I can see why 15/16 year olds can connect with him though.
I do hope future FFs move away from that character type. They don't necessarily need happy-go-lucky dweebs, but the Lightning/Squall personality feels like it's been overdone.
I do hope future FFs move away from that character type. They don't necessarily need happy-go-lucky dweebs, but the Lightning/Squall personality feels like it's been overdone.
Ha, well you pretty much listed the only two personalities that are used for an FF protag.
You've got the happy dweebs: Bartz, Zidane, Tidus, Vaan, Yuna (in FFX-2)
And then you've got the 'leave me along cause I have issues but will change during the game': Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Lightning
(never played FF2 so I don't don't know about Firion and Warriors of Light and Onion Kings are just avatars for the player.
Not sure about FF Type-O but Versus seems to keep with the latter stereotype thank to Noctis.
You make a good point; that might have something to do with why I've drifted away from FF after 20 some years of loving their games! I'm in my early 30s now; the way some of these lead characters behave is so off-putting. Doofus' being doofy, Lightning punching people, Squall hating everyone.....No thanks.
I do think Cecil and Cloud are fantastic protagonists though. Easily my favorites. They both have their conflicts, but ultimately handle them maturely and reasonably enough to still relate to, at least within video games. Noel's pretty good too. And I like Tidus and Yuna because I thought their development was handled well.
I think the Lightning/Squall types are especially hard to relate to for people who aren't like that. Lightning is really hard to identify with as a female, and I would run far away from guys like Squall.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
Lightning/Cloud, I think you mean. Squall at least has a personality; a pendulum swinging between moody and emo. Lightning/Cloud have all the charm and wit of a pebble. Completely nondescript, boring, dull and lifeless.
To be fair to Squall though, he gets a badass upgrade in KH and (iirc) Dissidia too.
Type-0 breaks the stereotype and is mind-bendingly awesome but you can't have it.
I know this is supposed to be an exaggeration but, that's pretty spot on. Even though I knew Squall and Rinoa was going to be the focus of the story but it just seemed like one minute he didn't give a fuck about any female then all of a suddenly he starts falling for Rinoa like halfway through.
I always liked his design. Just his personality irked me.
Wait...she doesn't stop that?
Finishing up FFXII after The Last Story is going to be tortuous.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
Never saw much of the emo with Lightning. She did have a few moments, but they weren't especially inspiring. Moody yes, but in a dull and uninteresting way. Maybe the monotone voice acting didn't help.
Whereas SE themselves admit Lightning was an attempt to just basically copy Cloud. They even look somewhat similar.
That dude from Angel voicing Leon was the best choice for Leon/Squall too.
I forgot Noel. He was actually pretty good, neither angsty nor goofy so I'd say if they decided to go with Noel-like main characters I'd be very happy. Although then again, that game is more about Serah than Noel and she, somehow, manages to beat Vaan to the most dull main character in an FF game ever.
Also re Cecil and Cloud I think that's why their games have been the 'game changers' in FF. They took the stereotype and done something awesome with it. I'd add Tidus to this list, he comes across as the happy not a care in the world character but grows quite a lot by the end of the game.
I would argue that Lightning is more akin to Squall. The whole 'whatever' personality is pretty similar. They both develop differently, but they start off the same.
Yeah, there are definitely physical resemblances between Lightning and Advent Children Cloud, but I feel her character and personality line up with Squall much better. Cloud had great development and complexities to his character arc. Lightning's got bupkis. And Squall's was so centered around the 'twist' and his out-of-left-field romance with Rinoa that I just don't think he was developed well at all. But some of that has to do with the plot of VIII too.
He was soooo good. Too bad they couldn't have kept him.Esura said:
Despite being a pretty straight character, I always thought that part of the appeal to Cloud was that he was the stoic "let's get the mission done" soldier, but you could constantly place him in situations where you simply couldn't get a normal reaction out of him.
The Power of Love
The OTHER Date Scene
The Power of Love
The OTHER Date Scene
Noel was great. I'd be on board for more leads like him (maybe with XIII-3?!) They really nailed a character that's relatable for a wide range of people and age groups. Whether that works for the established FF fanbase is another question, but I found him refreshing. Like you said, he was never particularly angsty or goofy, and even though he was 18 in XIII-2, you'd never know he was still basically a teen because he behaved like a reasonable adult. I liked his commeraderie with Serah too. They developed a nice friendship and I thought it was great that they didn't end up romantic. Nice change.
Noi said:
Yeah, Cloud is a really fun character in VII. I love how he hits you with the unexpected just when you're starting to think you have him figured out.
I love the way that he was able to basically say what the player was thinking many times in the game. You know when something's getting a bit too ridiculous or when Serah's being idiotic, like that one scene where Serah is all about wanting to go find Lightning and Noel straight away pretty much attacks her and asks 'Well why didn't you go and do that?' Also his interactions with Snow are great. It felt that the character did a lot of growing before the game. Having a very good VA also helped (his 'SERAAAAAAH' at the end was awesome)
I did like the friendship he developed with Serah and it really nicely mirrored his relationship with Yuel which was great to notice.
I really hope he comes back as the main player in the next game, or at least a playable character. He was the most interesting character from FFXIII and FFXIII-2 put together.
Wasn't saying he's emo. But he's definitely a more stoic protagnoist that you know has issues with the world and with himself and he WILL change during the game. Not trying to hate or anything, I like the other additions to Noctis' personality as well (the shyness for example) and I think he'll be a great hero since it's Nojima writing him and Nomura directing him (and I always liked the direction he took Riku, Terra and Roxas in KH).
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
If I was Noctis, I'd be pretty emo by now. All the powers in the World don't mean much when the Squeenix overlords deem you less important than desperate XIII fig-leaf sequels and unimaginative iOS ports. Poor guy.
17 year olds flip flopping daily about who they're in love with???
That's the most accurate writing Square-Enix has EVER done.
Maybe it's not him that has issues with the world... but the world has issues with him... or something.
I'm not sure I'd even mind if Noctis is emo. If he has a compelling enough reason for it, and it feels natural enough, then more power to him. I just don't like MEAN. Lightning, Squall -- great big meanies. Not for me.
I always thought Squall ignoring Quistis was pretty hilarious. He simply did not give a fuck.
manipulate
Member
Quistis was so much cooler than Rinoa. Silly Squall.
Green Mamba
Member
The funniest and saddest praise I can give to Squall is that he's easily the best of the six main characters in FFVIII. And I really did not care for Squall as a character.