Final Fantasy used to be a big deal.
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LordOcidax
Member
Cert.in.Death
Member
It's still big. R34 has been a huge boon for the series.
vodka-bull
Member
Dude, it's still the second biggest JRPG franchise after Pokemon.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
This is a microaggression.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
I would say its a macroaggression
asdasdasdbb
Member
With Playstation dead in Japan, the games really need to be on Switch.
I continue to believe that FF7R Part 3 got greenlit because they are doing it on the cheap... but I am not sure where the franchise goes after that.
I continue to believe that FF7R Part 3 got greenlit because they are doing it on the cheap... but I am not sure where the franchise goes after that.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Guys, I swear, I'm trying to change lol
To be perfectly honest, after I wrote that I went back and checked some of my threads and...yeah I've had some "micro effort" ones too.
To give a more serious answer & piggy back on the response below though
I'm guessing they're having a bit of an internal crisis with the franchise at the moment. It's clear with how FF7R-2 sold that "FF7" is doing a lot of carrying, and their big gamble on a more action oriented direction with 16 didn't really work.
Not to mention you've had something like Clair Obscur come out and show that you can do turn based with hyper realistic graphics and have it be actually good.
Normally, FF17 would already be in early development right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're taking a pause to rethink it again.
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Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Both Series are on my ignore list.
Deerock71
Very Poor Hoice of Wor
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
I'm sure they've begin long ago early development for XVII.. XVI has been out over a year already.
But importantly - Clair Obscur shows it can and should be done. Square should pulling "FF IX" and head back to roots for XVII (turn based, world map, etc). Abandon most everything they've concocted in the last several entries.
vaibhavpisal
Member
I am happy with Octopath and Bravely Default titles.
Current Final Fantasy is trying to break into mainstream appeal. Which is not possible by making them like these.
Hopefully they can strike the right formula with next one.
Current Final Fantasy is trying to break into mainstream appeal. Which is not possible by making them like these.
Hopefully they can strike the right formula with next one.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Honestly if we look at games like octopath traveller or dragon quest 2.5D remakes, they've given folks that, they don't sell nearly as much.
If it truly had to do with turn based combat those games would be outselling final fantasy's.
Mind you I agree they should at least throw us a new mainline entry with a new spin on ATB to see how it does at least but in their mind they see it as the data doesn't back this up.
I work for a prominent South Korean company and the level of risk taking is non existent. I had a locked in million dollar opportunity, and I broke down the math for them that a $3,000 risk existed in potential normal claims if we warrantied for manufacturing defect, they turned down the $997,000.00.
I assume Japanese business operate similarly. They take those risks on octopath but not with FF. They'd need a 99.99% assurance it would outsell an action combat game to consider it.
Lokaum D+
Member
Never forget. "Um actually Tales, Grandia. and SMT were better." No fuck you they weren't.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Squaresoft made the Final Fantasy movie, went bankrupt, and merged with Enix.
If Sony acquired them at the time as opposed to a merger, they could have retained their style.
If Sony acquired them at the time as opposed to a merger, they could have retained their style.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It still is.
But it used to be, too.
But it used to be, too.
Paulistano
Member
Square died with the Enix merger from this moment forward it was just a soulless shell.
Kumomeme
Member
the franchise actually slowly falling to niche genre. it has mindshare issue. they failed to capture newer generation of audience. in one of recent survey at japan show that FF and DQ average fanbase age is around 42 as opposed to newer popular title which is around 20. even Capcom game is around 30. Square cant keep rely on these shrinking fanbase that grow older forever. if this keep going on and they failed to gain a good number of newer generation of audience, by the time next mainline FF come out on PS6 the average playerbase age could go to 50 years old LOL.
20 years ago we constantly has fans that grew up with the title. but not the case anymore. if we see year gap between modern 'HD' FF release, we has tons of younger generation that totally not grew up with FF. the franchise is basically like a foreign ip to them. the industry and market grow considerabily since then and yet FF didnt grow accordingly. the marketbase out grow them.
also FF indeed used to be big but it never that big as people expected to be. out of 14 single player title, only 3 of it able to reach 10m. 2 of it is over 20 years old. compared to other big RPG out there with over 10 million norm, FF is nowhere close. it is still far from mainstream title that appeal to casuals. so if we look objectively at those sales data, some people actually bit exeggerated from the performance. it is a legendary ip that exist for over 30 years old but thats all it has currently for the name.
SE actually aware of this. which is why they tried to appeal to younger generation with newer game. according to FF16 producer Naoki Yoshida, they actually gained siginficant younger audience. so it is working but change wont happen overnight. even niche title like Souls series took atleast 1-2 generation to become mainstream. there is also challenge of balancing the appeal toward existing fanbase vs attracting new one. there is also misshap in their bussiness approach of their recent titles too.
what they need to do now to keep making good game. at two previous generation they struggling to has smooth development of big scale RPG but nowdays they deliver it with Rebirth and FF16. they just need to keep maintain the performance. but at same time simply good is not enough if audience not familliar with it. they need to work improve the mindshare issue. i say they should not just rely on keep making videogames in hoping it would suddenly be next BoTW or Elden Ring. they should work on other medium outside of videogames too. film and anime is good example. it work well for title like Hogwart Legacy. particularly anime considering Square Enix position as one of publisher at japan. when last time we got FF anime? 20 years ago. there is effort of making live action series with FF14 but cancelled due to the immense budget but im baffled there is still no FF14 anime too LOL.
20 years ago we constantly has fans that grew up with the title. but not the case anymore. if we see year gap between modern 'HD' FF release, we has tons of younger generation that totally not grew up with FF. the franchise is basically like a foreign ip to them. the industry and market grow considerabily since then and yet FF didnt grow accordingly. the marketbase out grow them.
also FF indeed used to be big but it never that big as people expected to be. out of 14 single player title, only 3 of it able to reach 10m. 2 of it is over 20 years old. compared to other big RPG out there with over 10 million norm, FF is nowhere close. it is still far from mainstream title that appeal to casuals. so if we look objectively at those sales data, some people actually bit exeggerated from the performance. it is a legendary ip that exist for over 30 years old but thats all it has currently for the name.
SE actually aware of this. which is why they tried to appeal to younger generation with newer game. according to FF16 producer Naoki Yoshida, they actually gained siginficant younger audience. so it is working but change wont happen overnight. even niche title like Souls series took atleast 1-2 generation to become mainstream. there is also challenge of balancing the appeal toward existing fanbase vs attracting new one. there is also misshap in their bussiness approach of their recent titles too.
what they need to do now to keep making good game. at two previous generation they struggling to has smooth development of big scale RPG but nowdays they deliver it with Rebirth and FF16. they just need to keep maintain the performance. but at same time simply good is not enough if audience not familliar with it. they need to work improve the mindshare issue. i say they should not just rely on keep making videogames in hoping it would suddenly be next BoTW or Elden Ring. they should work on other medium outside of videogames too. film and anime is good example. it work well for title like Hogwart Legacy. particularly anime considering Square Enix position as one of publisher at japan. when last time we got FF anime? 20 years ago. there is effort of making live action series with FF14 but cancelled due to the immense budget but im baffled there is still no FF14 anime too LOL.
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DreamcastSkies
Gold Member
It did used to be a big deal and I know I will catch heat for this but I kind of wish they'd focus on remaking their golden era Final Fantasy games and maybe make a new AAA series to take the place of new Final Fantasy entries.
For example, from what I understand, FF16 struggled (I haven't gotten around to it). I got the impression it didn't really resonate with long-term FF fans but it carried the FF brand (which is 16 mainline titles deep) which may have turned off newcomers who may have been more open to the game than a traditional FF fan was.
If FF17 is going to feel shackled by having to match certain expectations a FF game carries (it should feature crystals, it should feature summons, it should have a party, an art style akin to 7-10, ideally turn-based) and it doesn't feature these things (turning longtime fans away) and it seems like a series hard to get into (alienating new consumers who may not care that it isn't like FFX), then why call it FF17? I think Square doesn't really know how to make original FF games anymore (I think VII Remake and VII Rebirth look and feel like FF games, but those are remakes).
I think they should spend some time remaking/remastering the classic games (maybe they will rediscover what made the series great and not every remake needs to be a 3 game project like VII), pause new mainline titles, and make a new AAA RPG series that can be appealing to a broader audience than FF16 was.
I would much rather get a FF6 or FF8 or FF9 remake in the vein of Dragon Quest VII Reimagined than a FF17 as things currently stand.
Also, I want to give a shout-out to FF13. It IS a hallway simulator, for better or worse, it is a fundamentally flawed game, but as time has gone by, I appreciate how 'Final Fantasy' it looked. The world, the characters, they had a comparable look to VII, VIII, X and maybe even XII. It added to the identity of the game. X and VII Remake handle the linear hallway path thing XIII was going for better, but I think the game is decent and when XV and XVI are the only single player FFs that have released since, it sort of boosts XIII's standing.
For example, from what I understand, FF16 struggled (I haven't gotten around to it). I got the impression it didn't really resonate with long-term FF fans but it carried the FF brand (which is 16 mainline titles deep) which may have turned off newcomers who may have been more open to the game than a traditional FF fan was.
If FF17 is going to feel shackled by having to match certain expectations a FF game carries (it should feature crystals, it should feature summons, it should have a party, an art style akin to 7-10, ideally turn-based) and it doesn't feature these things (turning longtime fans away) and it seems like a series hard to get into (alienating new consumers who may not care that it isn't like FFX), then why call it FF17? I think Square doesn't really know how to make original FF games anymore (I think VII Remake and VII Rebirth look and feel like FF games, but those are remakes).
I think they should spend some time remaking/remastering the classic games (maybe they will rediscover what made the series great and not every remake needs to be a 3 game project like VII), pause new mainline titles, and make a new AAA RPG series that can be appealing to a broader audience than FF16 was.
I would much rather get a FF6 or FF8 or FF9 remake in the vein of Dragon Quest VII Reimagined than a FF17 as things currently stand.
Also, I want to give a shout-out to FF13. It IS a hallway simulator, for better or worse, it is a fundamentally flawed game, but as time has gone by, I appreciate how 'Final Fantasy' it looked. The world, the characters, they had a comparable look to VII, VIII, X and maybe even XII. It added to the identity of the game. X and VII Remake handle the linear hallway path thing XIII was going for better, but I think the game is decent and when XV and XVI are the only single player FFs that have released since, it sort of boosts XIII's standing.
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PurePlatinum
Member
They spent more than twenty-years without releasing a truly beloved game in the franchise. It's the same thing that happened with Halo. You can't expect people to care after you've just not delivered for so long.
Before Remake/Rebirth, X was the last universally beloved Final Fantasy.
XII/XIII/XIV/XV/XVI all have MAJOR problems or caveats.
Before Remake/Rebirth, X was the last universally beloved Final Fantasy.
XII/XIII/XIV/XV/XVI all have MAJOR problems or caveats.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Do you think Square Enix in 2025 has the balls to to pause and pivot?
In my veins.
Kumomeme
Member
XIV is well beloved though. despite it has tons of critism especially with the stale 10 years formula and the shitty writing of new expansions, it is still probably most successfull FF out there and they has chance to turn it around again with next expansions. it is basically still second biggest MMO on the planet right now.
the problem for me personally despite its success they never tried to use its popularity to improve the mindshare issue of overall IP and XVI was developed with XIV worst aspect in mind rather than the stuff that it good at.
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icecold1983
Member
The quality of the games has nose dived. Of course they aren't a big deal anymore.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Heavensward story and characters is some of the best of any FF out there in my opinion. I think they're having the same problem Bungie is having with Destiny 2(among other problems).
Endwalker and The Final Shape were both endings to a decade long story and it seems neither teams bothered to think about how to hook people for the next big adventure. Destiny 2 needs a massive time jump, and FF14 needs another End of Eorzea/Realm Reborn type situation to start things over. So I guess a time jump for both lol
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
Final Fantasy fanboys have always been delusional.
PeteBull
Member
The answer to that is very simple, FF4,5,6,7,8,9,10 were of extremly high quality compared to other games/jrpgs on the market so they became classics, ff11 being mmo(but still loved by its small but very hc community) changed the trend, ff12 didnt sell too well(compared to other prime FF games), ff13 was huge disseapointment in everything but graphics(and lets not even go into xbox port debate), ff14 was utterly terrible early on, and again, mmo so different audience, ff15 sold well(official data, 10m sold copies), but ff16 did terrible again sales wise(not even 4m copies ltd) and rightfully so- it was 8/10 game for biased af fan(atic) of the series and jrpg genre like myself only- for many ppl it was much worse even.
TLDR- U wanna ff17 to be big/sell extremly well(say 10m copies minimum)- game has to be of exceptional quality, at least for FF series fanbase- no cringe story/dialogue, no halfassed combat systems, no 30minute+ nonplayable/cgi/ingame sequences either which were all huge flaws of ff16.
TLDR- U wanna ff17 to be big/sell extremly well(say 10m copies minimum)- game has to be of exceptional quality, at least for FF series fanbase- no cringe story/dialogue, no halfassed combat systems, no 30minute+ nonplayable/cgi/ingame sequences either which were all huge flaws of ff16.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Square-Enix thrives off their own nostalgia. Even that is a hit and miss. I personally enjoyed XII because it had a really good setting and the production value was fantastic. Everything minus the VII Remake and the Pixel Remastered games stinks. It doesn't hold the same value. Atlus and other developers see where the need for JRPGs needs to be and they have answered the call. Metaphor, Unicorn Overlord, and even the Persona series has shined where Final Fantasy can't.
It's weird cause I love 16 and 32-bit FF games, but they milk it for all it's worth. I liked 7-12, but giving me a plushy of a dog and Clive sucks so much. Who cares about petting that dog in XVI in 2025? No one does. Clive sucks and so does his game. It's not going to be remembered for doing anything besides being an action game.
I'm more excited about this Tactics remaster than I am the announcement of the next mainline Final Fantasy game. I'd rather play Part 3 of the remake than an all new original Final Fantasy.
I also think FFXI has a better look to it than XIV. It's such a boring mess of a game with a terrible launcher. I don't get the love for it. I think someone who just started playing RPGs might think it's cool. It's a shell of what it use to be. It's like Square-Enix couldn't get over how they "saved XIV" after it bombed the first time. They haven't stopped patting themselves on the back to make anything better. I remember you could buy the strategy guides to FF7-9 at Barnes & Noble years after they had been out. No one cares about XIII-2 or Lightning Returns. They looked cool at the time, but they hold no real value. It's a shame because classic Squaresoft titles hold their own to this day, even with the dated visuals. It's their new stuff that sucks. I think we all got a taste of their downfall after KH3 was such a dialogue heavy mess of a game. The hype was like 10 years strong and I don't care to play KH3 or even FFXVI ever again. They're such a big let down and Sakaguchi is crazy if he thinks it got better.
It's weird cause I love 16 and 32-bit FF games, but they milk it for all it's worth. I liked 7-12, but giving me a plushy of a dog and Clive sucks so much. Who cares about petting that dog in XVI in 2025? No one does. Clive sucks and so does his game. It's not going to be remembered for doing anything besides being an action game.
I'm more excited about this Tactics remaster than I am the announcement of the next mainline Final Fantasy game. I'd rather play Part 3 of the remake than an all new original Final Fantasy.
I also think FFXI has a better look to it than XIV. It's such a boring mess of a game with a terrible launcher. I don't get the love for it. I think someone who just started playing RPGs might think it's cool. It's a shell of what it use to be. It's like Square-Enix couldn't get over how they "saved XIV" after it bombed the first time. They haven't stopped patting themselves on the back to make anything better. I remember you could buy the strategy guides to FF7-9 at Barnes & Noble years after they had been out. No one cares about XIII-2 or Lightning Returns. They looked cool at the time, but they hold no real value. It's a shame because classic Squaresoft titles hold their own to this day, even with the dated visuals. It's their new stuff that sucks. I think we all got a taste of their downfall after KH3 was such a dialogue heavy mess of a game. The hype was like 10 years strong and I don't care to play KH3 or even FFXVI ever again. They're such a big let down and Sakaguchi is crazy if he thinks it got better.
The Final Fantasy game is closer to an action RPG like the Soul games and Monster Hunter than a basic turn-based RPG like Pokemon.
Final Fantasy sales
FF15 - 10 million
FF7 Remake - 7 million
FF16 - 3.5 million
FF7 Rebirth - 2.5 million
FF series is heading towards niche status at this rate.
Pokémon
Souls series
Monster Hunter
Gordon Fearman
Member
Does Square still have people capable of telling a good story anymore? Nomura and co are too deep with their self indulgent BS, YoshiP is too busy trend chasing better fantasy series he doesn't understand, Sakaguchi and Tabata are gone. Like who's left who can actually write a Final Fantasy? I mean they could try grabbing someone like Ishiyama, but he's only directed smaller games and wouldn't necessarily be suited to a larger project.
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
For me Final Fantasy died with 13
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Thinking about it more, who would even be making FF17?
- CBU-I is wrapping up FF7 trilogy and working on KH4
- CBU-II is working on DQ and whatever is next for Octopath
- CBU-III is FF14
- Yoshi-P said they were working on 2 new games and we know now 1 is Ivalice Chronicles. Maybe 9 is the other?
- CBU-IV and CBU-V are working smaller games
The Shepard
Member
I'm always hoping Sakaguchi and Uematsu will return for one last Final Fantasy, would instantly make it my most hyped game.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
To be fair, Sakaguchi is the only one who's written a Final Fantasy in that list.
Kazutoyo Maehiro - (ARR, Heavensward, FFXVI) - He just directed the tactics remake
Natsuko Ishikawa - (Stormblood, Shadowbringers, Endwalker)
Kazushige Nojima - I don't think he's employed by Square but he came back to write the FF7 remake trilogy
Motomu Toriyama
That's just a few people who have worked on FF games in the recent past. So there's talented people there.
Play Fantasian. That's the closests you're going to get to that dream. Although Uematsu said he would come back to do the main theme for Remake part 3.
Kumomeme
Member
i think what issue with the XIV team is currently all the important senior staff jump on their AAA single player team. so it left with younger devs. thats why there is decline in story quality and there lot of issue that feels like not supposed to happened again since ARR but yet, still somehow resurfaced again. these younger devs clearly not ready. lot of content in the design nowdays clearly feels like they do it for sake of following same formula. nothing more.
8.0 is important turning point for not just XIV but for SE as whole considering how important the game profit to the company is.
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Kumomeme
Member
they got it. but most of it is in CS3 team.
- Kazutoyo Maehiro - FFXIV A Realm Reborn, Heavensward
basically Yasumi Matsuno protege. his latest work on FF16 but to be fair it is far from his best work on Heavensward.
- Natsuko Ishikawa - Shadowbringers, Endwalker
ever heard of a Final Fantasy writer who received standing ovation? there it is :
lets hope she work on next mainline single player FF.
Heavensward, Shadowbringers and Endwalker is among the best story in Final Fantasy. i put it among videogames too. Sakaguchi praised the story. if you follow his twitter, he spend most of his time playing FFXIV.
the rest of division, we dont see anyone new yet. people like to blame Nomura but Kazushige Nojima play big role in writing story. seriously they cant rely on Nojima forever. he been hit and miss. they need find new writer.
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NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
You can thank the PS2's power and every dev's intention at the time to turn video games into
It's always funny to me that people include FFX in that bunch. That's the exact moment when FF started falling. Linearity and crappy dialogue badly concealed behind a wallpaper of pretty graphics and an absolute travesty of character design that people for some reason lapped up. FF8 was a thousand times the better game.
It's always funny to me that people include FFX in that bunch. That's the exact moment when FF started falling. Linearity and crappy dialogue badly concealed behind a wallpaper of pretty graphics and an absolute travesty of character design that people for some reason lapped up. FF8 was a thousand times the better game.
Emedan
Member
Kumomeme
Member
my guess is that there is currently 2 team that are free and available:
CS3's FF16 team - i assume they revamp the team after the development wrap up. Yoshida also did tease they are working on something. assuming 3-4 development minimum, we might see something, next year.
FF15/Forspoken team - or to be accurate, former Luminuous production team that was disbanded and absorbed within the company.
unless there is another secret team nobody know about.
but based on track record, the CS3 single player team might be the obvious choice. the Forspoken didnt has good track record and they dont has anybody in the development team that standout to lead the game after Tabata left. unless they gonna mix the staff from other projects. like with CS3 or Nomura. who know? thats why the reason Nomura step down as director from FF7 remake projects other than due to focused on KH4.
so far the CS1's FF7 remake team is the best choice based on their output with Rebirth. but that team wont be available atleast until 2027, assuming the 3rd part gonna take atleast another 3 years. that team definitely gonna handle FF18 or 19.
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Kumomeme
Member
the FF7 Remake 7 million sales data is officially annouced at September 2023. it been 2 year now im not suprise if it already atleast 8m.
the FF16 3.5m data is false. the analyst source of this apologize due to the wrong data. the game actually reach 3M in 1 week. not makesense by now after 2 years there is only another 500k increase.
Analyst apologises for mistakenly claiming Final Fantasy 16 sold 3.5m copies
An analyst who claimed Final Fantasy 16 had sold 3.5 million copies has apologised, insisting the figure was an estimat…
www.eurogamer.net
for FF7 Rebirth, on that other forum there is a journalist claim they heard it is atleast already over 4m in the year it released.
but yes, FF indeed heading to niche status. but i argue it is already was. it just most popular among niche. SE realize this thats why they working on to attract younger generations of audience. it has mindshare issue. to be fair even at it peak, it never been that super popular either. it still not mainstream as opposed to something like Elder Scroll.
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Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
That would make the most sense. Unless Team 1 has a 3rd secret team, it doesn't seem like they have the capacity.
SkylineRKR
Member
The last good FF I had played was FFXII. The rest is mediocre at best.
FFVII Rebirth isn't bad per se, its actually good, but its a retelling of an old game and imo worse than said game. Creatively bankrupt if your 'best' game is a remake. Its filled with tropes that were kind of the thing 10 years ago.
The problem is that with FF they always try to reinvent the wheel. Meanwhile DQ is rather stable, perhaps a bit safe, but stable. DQXI was better than all FF games since FFXII.
FFVII Rebirth isn't bad per se, its actually good, but its a retelling of an old game and imo worse than said game. Creatively bankrupt if your 'best' game is a remake. Its filled with tropes that were kind of the thing 10 years ago.
The problem is that with FF they always try to reinvent the wheel. Meanwhile DQ is rather stable, perhaps a bit safe, but stable. DQXI was better than all FF games since FFXII.