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[Seyken]

For a long while now Square Enix has held the belief that "every Final Fantasy game should be different from each other".

And while that has held true over the years, something changed along the way. From 1 through 9, all Final Fantasies were indeed different, but from a story, characters and world perspective. The core system of the game was still the ATB, and they just iterated and polished around that, adding some sprinkles like the materia system or the junction system to varied degrees of success. Still, when you bought a Final Fantasy game, you mostly knew what to expect.

From 10 onwards though, they went rogue. The series went through multiple VERY.DIFFERENT. systems in rapid succession. To do something like this in this day and age, to me, is a stupid proposition.

Imagine a world where Naughty Dog creates Uncharted 1 and doesn't iterate on it and just goes to the next thing. A world where Ubisoft creates Assassin's Creed 1 and doesn't iterate on it and just goes to the next thing.

To find and create a great gameplay loop ONCE, is something that most game companies will go their entire existence without achieving. To have the hubris to think that you will be able to pull it off MULTIPLE times, in the FIRST TRY, is just downright lunacy. And yet it's something that they have been attempting for the longest time and mostly failing. It doesn't help matters when you think about development costs nowadays and how much longer it takes them to make their games, since they're essentially starting from scratch every.single.time.

The most revered games of the last years have been born by the process of iterating. You take something you did good at, and you refine it, and refine it until it's perfect. A concept that should be familiar to the japanese, the creators of the goddamn katana.

Baldur's Gate 3 wouldn't exist without Divinity 1 and 2 paving the way. Elden Ring wouldn't exist without Dark Souls / Bloodborne / Sekiro paving the way.

And so we arrive at the Final Fantasy VII trilogy, forcing Square to do what it hasn't done in ages. Take what worked from Remake and refine it. Take what didn't and change it.

The result? A fucking amazing game. The highest score for a Final Fantasy game in the last 20 years. The best combat system the series has ever seen (in my opinion). All that with ONE ITERATION. Imagine what the future could be if they just take the base formula from this to the numbered games and start refining upon it? Can we get less clunky world interactions and traversal? Even more varied open world activities? Even more refined combat? The sky is the limit.

Mayhaps even more important than this, you start to build a fanbase and a reputation. A fanbase that knows how your game plays and are fans of it - like Fromsoftware did, like Larian Studios did. When you buy a Final Fantasy game, you should know what to expect, like back in the day: a fucking awesome game.

 

[LectureMaster]

Imagine a world where Naughty Dog creates Uncharted 1 and doesn't iterate on it and just goes to the next thing. A world where Ubisoft creates Assassin's Creed 1 and doesn't iterate on it and just goes to the next thing.

Uncharted stopped at 4; most people were already fatigued by the sameyness of the old AC formula till they soft rebooted with Origin (and then it gets boring again with the mythology trilogy).

If you are running a series that has 16 mainline installments, I think change is absolutely necessary. I am fine with SE's handling of the series.

 

[Danjin44]

If you are running a series that has 16 mainline installments, I think change is necessary. I am fine with SE's handling of the series.

Exactly! changing formula with each game is FF series is all about.....They are anthology of fantasy RPG which each director will put their own spin on it.

 

[Seyken]

Uncharted stopped at 4; most people were already fatigued by the sameyness of the old AC formula till they soft rebooted with Origin (and then it gets boring again with the mythic trilogy).

If you are running a series that has 16 mainline installments, I think change is necessary. I am fine with SE's handling of the series.

On the other hand, Final Fantasy ran with pretty much the same system from 1 to 9, but still changing enough sprinkles around the core system as to make it feel different and people didn't have major problems with it. They can do the same with FF7's system, at least for the foreseeable future.

 

[EverydayBeast]

We’re going to see a lot more final fantasy.

 

[Seyken]

Also, you guys are focusing on Uncharted and Assassin's Creed, but what about fromsofts games? Their core gameplay is the same for a lot of their games, but they're also very good at changing the sprinkles around it game after game and are going from strength to strength.

Iteration doesn't mean to keep redoing the same game over and over until people get tired of it. It's to improve upon a core and sucessful idea until it reaches its peak form.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Agreed OP.

 

[Danjin44]

but what about fromsofts games? Their core gameplay is the same for a lot of their games, but they're also very good at changing the sprinkles around it game after game and are going from strength to strength.

FROM doesn’t release games as often as Square does with Final Fantasy series.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

That would completely fuck with what makes Final Fantasy. It's complete start over with every numbered title in both gameplay and story basically laid out the series template. People obsessed with iterative stuff both A. - Don't notice when it's there in the first fucking place (i.e. Stagger mechanic was from Final Fantasy XIII first, and tinkered with for like four separate games before appearing in basically every nu-FF since) or they look a 30 odd year franchise with contemporary goggles. This isn't Gears of War or TLOU.

Edit: grammar. Like I didn't fix any of it, but I know I done fucked up. Oh, and add a B. to follow that lonely A.

 

[fallingdove]

On the other hand, Final Fantasy ran with pretty much the same system from 1 to 9, but still changing enough sprinkles around the core system as to make it feel different and people didn't have major problems with it. They can do the same with FF7's system, at least for the foreseeable future.

other than 1-9 being random battle and turn based combat, being top down, pixel-based graphics and reuse some of the assets, they all feel very different.

I would also argue that in the original Final Fantasy 7, the pre and post midgar sections changed pretty dramatically in terms of their tone, open world design/optional content, and combat flexibility. IMO - if square had broken the original FF7 up and sold them the same way as the remake trilogy, they probably would have been reviewed similarly.

 

[Faust]

Exactly! changing formula with each game is FF series is all about.....They are anthology of fantasy RPG which each director will put their own spin on it.

Yep. Exactly this.

This was a thing as soon as FFII and III. The series has never been the same game and always tried new and unique things. It is just that there is more choice in what they can do versus what they were limited with back on the NES/SNES.

 

[Fbh]

In terms of gameplay I totally agree.
This approach of throwing the entire gameplay into the trash and starting from scratch with each new game is dumb.

You can still have a new world with new characters and mechanics but they could, for example, take the combat system of 7Remake as a base and build upon that.
Also just like old school FF it doesn't mean the combat has to be exactly the same, it's not that every game now needs the materia system, each game can still have unique mechanics and gimmicks.

 

[Seyken]

FROM doesn’t release games as often as Square does with Final Fantasy series.

Final Fantasy X - 2001
Final Fantasy XII - 2006
Final Fantasy XIII - 2009
Final Fantasy XV - 2016 (!!)
Final Fantasy VII Remake - 2020
Final Fantasy XVI - 2023

On average, 4 years between main numbered releases.

Demon's Souls - 2009
Dark Souls - 2011
Dark Souls II - 2014
Bloodborne - 2015
Dark Souls III - 2016
Sekiro - 2019
Elden Ring - 2022

On average, 2 years between soulslike releases.

 

[SlimySnake]

By the time Elden Ring came out, i was pretty much burnt out on the souls formula. I completely disagree.

I am ok with a trilogy. maybe 4 games max, but U4 felt like a slog so maybe 4 games is too much as well.

I think they should do at least 2 games per final fantasy. 3 for the same kind of game feels a bit too samey. FF7 already has samey feel to it because FF7 was already such a long game just 4 years ago. Coming off of putting in 50 hours, i am already getting that dejavu feeling. Same thing happened with gow and horizon. these games are too long compared to ps2 and ps3 era games that were 10-20 hours long. so 2 50 hour games would feel like playing 10 ps2 era god of war games.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

In terms of gameplay I totally agree.
This approach of throwing the entire gameplay into the trash and starting from scratch with each new game is dumb.

You can still have a new world with new characters and mechanics but they could, for example, take the combat system of 7Remake as a base and build upon that.
Also just like old school FF it doesn't mean the combat has to be exactly the same, it's not that every game now needs the materia system, each game can still have unique mechanics and gimmicks.

Or...wait for this one - you could play one of the fifty franchises that already does this and leave something unique to the RPG scene do its own thing.

 

[LectureMaster]

Also, you guys are focusing on Uncharted and Assassin's Creed, but what about fromsofts games? Their core gameplay is the same for a lot of their games, but they're also very good at changing the sprinkles around it game after game and are going from strength to strength.

Iteration doesn't mean to keep redoing the same game over and over until people get tired of it. It's to improve upon a core and sucessful idea until it reaches its peak form.

For FROM's games I think there are two folds.

1. Their core gameplay is very strong and engaging even after multiple repetitions. A lot of boss battles you won't get bored for replaying many times.

2. Another pillar of FROM's games is exploding the world. With each game the new hand crafted levels offer brand new experience. That's another reason each game still feels refreshing.

That being said, I did get a bit fatigued after Dark Souls III. That's why Sekiro was such a god send as it is trying to get out of the formula.

 

[Seyken]

That would completely fuck with what makes Final Fantasy. It's complete start over with every numbered title in both gameplay and story basically laid out the series template. People obsessed with iterative stuff both A. - Don't notice when it's there in the first fucking place (i.e. Stagger mechanic was from Final Fantasy XIII first, and tinkered with for like four separate games before appearing in basically every nu-FF since) or they look a 30 odd year franchise with contemporary goggles. This isn't Gears of War or TLOU.

Edit: grammar. Like I didn't fix any of it, but I know I done fucked up. Oh, and add a B. to follow that lonely A.

Again, this doesn't make sense. Final Fantasy from 1 to 9 isn't Final Fantasy? They shared a lot of similarities, much more than nowadays, but still managed to imprint their own characteristics and be their own game. Am I tripping on this?

 

[Danjin44]

Final Fantasy X - 2001
Final Fantasy XII - 2006
Final Fantasy XIII - 2009
Final Fantasy XV - 2016 (!!)
Final Fantasy VII Remake - 2020
Final Fantasy XVI - 2023

On average, 4 years between main numbered releases.

Demon's Souls - 2009
Dark Souls - 2011
Dark Souls II - 2014
Bloodborne - 2015
Dark Souls III - 2016
Sekiro - 2019
Elden Ring - 2022

On average, 2 years between soulslike releases.

Sekiro is not Souls game, it shares some elements from their previous games but its entirely different games…combat is different, structure is different, the way tell its story is different, characters progression is different….the only thing they share is bonfire like system.

it like saying Catherine is Persona game, that game also shares elements from Persona series but they very different .

 

[Seyken]

Sekiro is not Souls game, it shares some elements from their previous games but its entirely different games…combat is different, structure is different, the way tell its story is different, characters progression is different….the only thing they share is bonfire like system.

it like saying Catherine is Persona game, that game also shares elements from Persona series but they very different .

I hesitated to put it there, but judged it had enough similarities for it to make sense. Anyways, even taking that off, it still comes down to a soulslike game every 2.4 years or so.

 

[Danjin44]

I hesitated to put it there, but judged it had enough similarities for it to make sense. Anyways, even taking that off, it still comes down to a soulslike game every 2.4 years or so.

We have 16 mainline FF game compare to 6 Souls game FROM made.

FF can have that many mainline games because each game are so different from each other and not only that FF series also have multiple different directors, while Miyazaki worked as director majority of Souls games.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

With too much iteration eventually you will run into Assassins Creed problem.

I like to play new stuff, even if its not as perfectly polished as a sequel.

Great respect to developers that take risk in AAA space.

 

[March Climber]

FROM is an anomaly in this situation, because their development team are rockstars in the industry(much like Kojipro) and fans will follow them and spread the word of their games regardless of the project. Therefore, a publisher will be more trusting of them starting an entirely new project.

Also, a person can state that Bloodborne, Sekiro, and AC: 6 are technically different from other Souls games including the fact that all 3 released at the correct time, which is before I.P.-fatigue started to set in. All 3 games expanded their portfolio to make them not look like they were not a one-note studio.

Most other publishers would run a concept and I.P. into the ground before creating a new I.P., because most of them don’t treat their developers like rockstars after a huge hit or two. Assassin’s creed has undergone 3 different variations of gameplay because they were too scared to name AC: Black Flag just Black Flag, and call Origins something else. The series is about to go to variation 4 with all of these new projects on the horizon. I don’t know anything about their teams. They’re just known as AC Teams 1,2,3 and Far Cry teams 1,2,3 etc.

As an example of the rockstar issue, the public still doesn’t really know which current day teams are developing which games at Capcom. The only strong, standout names there are Ono(Street Fighter/MvC) and Itsuno(DMC), and Itsuno is because Kamiya shouted him out multiple times in the past. So what you’ll get is a situation where nameless teams develop Resident Evil 2 Remake, Resident Evil 7, Resident Evil 3 Remake, Resident Evil 8, and Resident Evil 4 Remake. All of these games aren’t consistent in quality because there are different teams handling them. To me that’s a problem and you end up with ‘Capcom screwed up’ rather than ‘____dev team screwed up’.

Square Enix faces the same problems. Other than a few directors (who are getting close to retirement), no one really pays attention to their internal dev team names, because the Publisher themselves don’t really put a spotlight on them. And again, same issue where you see ‘FF is dead’ then ‘FF is alive and well’ due to variable quality between unknown teams. To me, that is using a brand dangerously to play with fire.

I’m saying this to say that if we had more development teams who were treated like rockstars, those teams would thrive, we would end up with more creative projects, more and better iterations, and eventual new I.P. from there being an established level of trust(until the moment it’s broken).

 

[fart town usa]

I agree for the most part but the stagger system can be greatly improved. XIII still has the best stagger system with it's tug of war aspect. I'd like to see that make a return.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Again, this doesn't make sense. Final Fantasy from 1 to 9 isn't Final Fantasy? They shared a lot of similarities, much more than nowadays, but still managed to imprint their own characteristics and be their own game. Am I tripping on this?

Even more reason why this is a weird argument to have in the first place. But again:

FFI - basic JRPG
FFII - Different development system, password system, named player characters.
FFIII - Job System, spell charges in Remake. Summons.
FFIV - First SNES FF. First to really focus on story. Has multiple explorable world maps. Fixed parties and classes. ATB system introduced.
FFV - Job system return. Three different world maps. Plays with major late game gameplay shakeups.
FFVI - Magitek system, optional party members, branching paths. Desperation moves.
FFVII - Materia system, first 3D FF. First PS FF. Limit Breaks
FFVIII - Junction system, draw system, SeeD system
FFIX - Based heavily on archetypes and systems from the first six FF games. Trance system. Item Synthesis.
FFX - First FF with voice acting. Sphere Grid. Modified turn based battle system. Blitzball. Overdrives.
FFXI - First MMO. Hugely big differences.
FFXII - Gambit system, modified ATB, Job system, license board. Hunt/Mark system introduced. Mist Knack/Quickenings.
FFXIII - Stagger system. Modified ATB. Paradigm shift system. Crystarium system. Roles.
FFXIV - Second MMO. The fun one.
FFXV - Open world. Armiger, that weird development system I can't remember The Name of, active battles, first FF to feature major DLC episodes.
FFXVI - action RPG. Eikonic abilities. Arcade modes.


I mean....it's largely iterative as is, and the first slew of them released that everyone always points out as being the most similar end up having the most new and fresh changes pound for pound per new entry versus the later entries where they've been frankensteining any element that works into the newest game. The difference lately is they've actually started to adjust to contemporary game development.

 

[Seyken]

I mean....it's largely iterative as is, and the first slew of them released that everyone always points out as being the most similar end up having the most new and fresh changes pound for pound per new entry versus the later entries where they've been frankensteining any element that works into the newest game. The difference lately is they've actually started to adjust to contemporary game development.

It USED to be iterative from 1 to 9. If you reaaally want to you can try to squeeze 10 and 12 in there. If you saw someone playing any of those, you could probably tell from a glance what it was. They had an overall Final Fantasy identity while still managing to have each game be their own thing with different systems (the sprinkles I mentioned and you mentioned as well).

From 13 onwards (more than 10 years ago) they started going crazy and creating completely different games with almost no similarities between them - different teams, engines, combat systems, everything, almost as if they were throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.

And I think that now they found a solid base in which they can work around, just like they did with the earlier Final Fantasies.

Let's say Final Fantasy XVII goes back to being very futuristic, but you keep it being an open world and with the base atb combat and an upgraded engine (unreal 4 to 5 in this case) from 7 Rebirth. They can for example add an in-depth parkour system, or grapple systems to move around. Would you say that it was still the same game and not different enough? Creating everything from scratch every time is very time consuming and the reward doesn't seem worth it.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I think for certain elements and kinds of features in the games sure, but overall each one should still feel like a completely different experience.

For example, I think the fundamentals of FF should be something like:

-party based adventure
-whatever the combat system is, whether action, hybrid, turn based, it should have character switching
-mini games
-some of the best cutscenes
-field interaction (swimming, climbing etc...)
-optional areas/content
-systems you get in JRPGs.
-stories/themes of spiritual, religious, political, biblical, mythological nature (the core all FF games)

Outside of that they should go nuts and just make whatever they want. But I think the above is what each game needs to be loved by most fans of the series after years of reading debate about it.

 

[kiphalfton]

FFVII combat system is grossly overrated.

I think it was just a matter of people were so underwhelmed by FFXV that anything looked good in comparison.

Then with FFXVI people went into it wanting to hate it.

At the end of the day though, just another example of a fan base being averse to any changes, despite having nearly a dozen games with turn based combat (which apparently wasn't enough).

 

[TheInfamousKira]

It USED to be iterative from 1 to 9. If you reaaally want to you can try to squeeze 10 and 12 in there. If you saw someone playing any of those, you could probably tell from a glance what it was. They had an overall Final Fantasy identity while still managing to have each game be their own thing with different systems (the sprinkles I mentioned and you mentioned as well).

From 13 onwards (more than 10 years ago) they started going crazy and creating completely different games with almost no similarities between them - different teams, engines, combat systems, everything, almost as if they were throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.

And I think that now they found a solid base in which they can work around, just like they did with the earlier Final Fantasies.

Let's say Final Fantasy XVII goes back to being very futuristic, but you keep it being an open world and with the base atb combat and an upgraded engine (unreal 4 to 5 in this case) from 7 Rebirth. They can for example add an in-depth parkour system, or grapple systems to move around. Would you say that it was still the same game and not different enough? Creating everything from scratch every time is very time consuming and the reward doesn't seem worth it.

XIII-Rebirth have a lot more mechanical iteration than you seem to be remembering or realizing, though. Stagger remains my best example. The way Summoning was treated XII on is another. Every game since X has had a gimmick development system in the main menu. Main menu itself for that matter, always been brought up with triangle until recently, submenus are basically ordered the same way now, with settings at the bottom, character dev and equipment up top and inventory towards middle. Rebirth basically has the menu from XV, to an almost derivative extent. Picking up resources from clusters on the ground certainly wasn't created by FF, but it was first utilized in series in XV.

There's no coherence to you because you haven't reached the autism super levels of pattern recognition that I have. And weed.

 

[Icymanipulator]

That would completely fuck with what makes Final Fantasy. It's complete start over with every numbered title in both gameplay and story basically laid out the series template. People obsessed with iterative stuff both A. - Don't notice when it's there in the first fucking place (i.e. Stagger mechanic was from Final Fantasy XIII first, and tinkered with for like four separate games before appearing in basically every nu-FF since) or they look a 30 odd year franchise with contemporary goggles. This isn't Gears of War or TLOU.

Edit: grammar. Like I didn't fix any of it, but I know I done fucked up. Oh, and add a B. to follow that lonely A.

Except like the first 10 (most loved and cherished) entries were only different in story and character mostly. Battle systems were largely the same.

100% agree with OP, take the hybrid system they have in remake and run with for at least a few entries and add little tweaks and differences. This would also free up time and talent to work on other aspects of the game.

There’s no need to reinvent the wheel every game. Especially since the battle system in 16 is hands down worse then 7 remake in every possible way. 16 is an RPG in name only. It’s one of the hugest disappointments in the series to me as a fan of games since I was a kid.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

The comparison to Uncharted doesn't make any sense.

Each mainline FF is a standalone game, within the same franchise.
(Apart from X and XIII, which are the only 2 games that have direct sequels).

FFVII Remake is just one game that they felt needed to be cut in 3 parts to do it justice.
(Though one could argue that FF VII is a bit milked with various spin-offs, which weren't that successful)

It's comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Fabieter]

On the other hand, Final Fantasy ran with pretty much the same system from 1 to 9, but still changing enough sprinkles around the core system as to make it feel different and people didn't have major problems with it. They can do the same with FF7's system, at least for the foreseeable future.

Thats not true. The atb system was introduced in ff iv and every fucking game was more different than rebirth is to remake. Horrible idea to make it iterative and it would make me hate the series. And iam such a big fan i loved everything about this franchise.

 

[NahaNago]

ff7remake had less than 3 years of development time so they probably rushed the battle system and finally created what they wanted with rebirth.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Except like the first 10 (most loved and cherished) entries were only different in story and character mostly. Battle systems were largely the same.

I made a huge post earlier denoting why I don't think this is a very true statement.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

You know what OP, I agree with you wholeheartedly but there are instances where changing things up worked for the better like Resident Evil 4.

 

[consoul]

It's like X-2 and XII 2 & 3 never existed.

 

[A2una1]

Also FF7Rebirth is exceptionally good. Not meaning every Continuation will. Worst case is, you end up with a unfinished story

 

[Fbh]

Or...wait for this one - you could play one of the fifty franchises that already does this and leave something unique to the RPG scene do its own thing.

And what are these 50 franchises that completely change the world, setting, characters, story, lore, etc in between each entry, but keep iterating and improving on the same combat principles?
At most you could maybe make an argument for some of the Souls games.

Also FF7Rebirth is exceptionally good. Not meaning every Continuation will. Worst case is, you end up with a unfinished story

I don't think OP is talking about FF having to start doing direct sequels. He is talking about iterating in terms of gameplay and design.
Think something like Dark Souls to Bloodborne: Different world, setting and lore, different characters and a completely unrelated story, new mechanics like the transforming weapons, firearms, the insight system and the regain system as well as adjustments to combat to make it faster and more focused on evading than blocking. And yet the core of the gameplay, the level design, the bonfire system, etc is still based on what they did with Dark Souls.

 

[The artful mincer]

Uncharted stopped at 4; most people were already fatigued by the sameyness of the old AC formula till they soft rebooted with Origin (and then it gets boring again with the mythology trilogy).

If you are running a series that has 16 mainline installments, I think change is absolutely necessary. I am fine with SE's handling of the series.

Rebooting after 4 games is reasonable. Rebooting every game is madness.
There's still plenty of room for innovation while iterating.

The simple fact of the matter is Rebooting after every game has not worked for FF it may have even damaged it.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Final Fantasy is the one JRPG series that really goes balls out taking big risks with a big budget. I don’t want that to go away even if sometimes we get stinkers like FF XVI.

There are a zillion other JRPG series out there that play it safe and conservatively iterate on a formula that works. Go play one of those instead.

 

[Icymanipulator]

I made a huge post earlier denoting why I don't think this is a very true statement.

I grew up playing the series, I don’t need to read any posts, I have first hand knowledge having played every single game, multiple times, over my life.

1-10 are mostly the same, with only minor differences to battle systems.

If you mean something else you need to be more clear and use precise language. I’ll look over your post later and see what’s up. I just got up and saw this and literally laught out loud.

 

[The artful mincer]

It must be kinda weird to new comers of the series as well.

E.g. if someone likes FF16 can you recommend the other games lol?

Where as if someone enjoys Dark Souls 3 it's probably a safe bet they will enjoy the other games.

I really think they should stick with this battle system for the time being. They have already shown lots of innovation with how different characters play and synergy abilities. Taking that system to a whole new universe would be amazing.

At the very least it would speed up dev times putting less pressure on achieving a break out hit.

 

[The artful mincer]

Final Fantasy is the one JRPG series that really goes balls out taking big risks with a big budget. I don’t want that to go away even if sometimes we get stinkers like FF XVI.

There are a zillion other JRPG series out there that play it safe and conservatively iterate on a formula that works. Go play one of those instead.

But FF XVI wasn't even a JRPG!!

 

[fart town usa]

The only thing that is a given with the future of FF is that it will contain an obscene amount of belts and buckles.

 

[Seyken]

The comparison to Uncharted doesn't make any sense.

Each mainline FF is a standalone game, within the same franchise.
(Apart from X and XIII, which are the only 2 games that have direct sequels).

FFVII Remake is just one game that they felt needed to be cut in 3 parts to do it justice.
(Though one could argue that FF VII is a bit milked with various spin-offs, which weren't that successful)

It's comparing apples to oranges.

What I said about Uncharted and AC was meant to showcase how hard it is to nail down a concept in the first go, and that Square keeps trying to do it every time.

If they had decided not to continue to iterate upon the same base on those games, we would have missed on some absolute classics like Uncharted 2 and AC 2, where it seemed like they found the winning formula. That's not to say they should just rest on their laurels.

FF16 had some glaring flaws, but also some very strong parts. I'm sure if given a second crack at it, CBU3 would deliver a much better product.

Still, I don't think it's healthy for the franchise to keep changing styles for every game, because not only you're fracturing the fanbase, but you don't build an identity. I can easily recommend Final Fantasy 6 to someone who enjoyed 9. Can I recommend 13, 15 or 16 for someone who enjoyed Rebirth? I'm not so sure.

I don't think OP is talking about FF having to start doing direct sequels. He is talking about iterating in terms of gameplay and design.
Think something like Dark Souls to Bloodborne: Different world, setting and lore, different characters and a completely unrelated story, new mechanics like the transforming weapons, firearms, the insight system and the regain system as well as adjustments to combat to make it faster and more focused on evading than blocking. And yet the core of the gameplay, the level design, the bonfire system, etc is still based on what they did with Dark Souls.

Chef's kiss post. Thank you.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I grew up playing the series, I don’t need to read any posts, I have first hand knowledge having played every single game, multiple times, over my life.

1-10 are mostly the same, with only minor differences to battle systems.

If you mean something else you need to be more clear and use precise language. I’ll look over your post later and see what’s up. I just got up and saw this and literally laught out loud.

If you're part of a discussion, you kinda do.

I'm not trying to question your turbo Fandom, just saying that there's a lot of connective tissue people don't/are choosing not to see.

 

[TGO]

I said this when FFVIII Remake came out, this should be the foundation going forward.
That doesn't mean it has to be exactly the same. But the foundation should be there
just like the RE Remakes, that's the formula they should go with going forward.

 

[mayham2199]

By the time Elden Ring came out, i was pretty much burnt out on the souls formula. I completely disagree.

I am ok with a trilogy. maybe 4 games max, but U4 felt like a slog so maybe 4 games is too much as well.

Yea I think 4 is to much. I only played UC4 because it was the last game. I think 3 is the perfect number.

 

[Icymanipulator]

If you're part of a discussion, you kinda do.

I'm not trying to question your turbo Fandom, just saying that there's a lot of connective tissue people don't/are choosing not to see.

The post where you list all the games, huh?
Even before ATB it was basic turn based RPG, ATB didn’t change that much, just made it “active” but the general flow of taking a turn from a list of menu options didn’t change, and didn’t change meaningfully until at least FF12 with the gambit system, which automated most actions.

My “turbo fandom” as you put it ( my history with the series) was only brought up because the things you list in your post are not eye opening to any one who has played the games.

1-10 didn’t change all the much from - “select a
menu option on your turn.” Then the slight tweaks like ATB, materia, Draw system, etc, which are only superfluous changes when it comes down to it. You are still waiting for your turn and selecting a menu option.

I’m not sure what you’re even arguing for here any more. My original post said that 1-10 were largely the same, not that they were the same, but overall the battle systems were very similar.
What you’ve posted doesn’t change any of that, or even properly challenge my assertion.