Final Fantasy VII Remake is a multi-part series

Storm Chamber said:
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Come on, I love Vincent but how is his dlc more expensive than Yuffie? She comes with a whole bonus Wutai sidequest mission! All Vincent does is bitch at Hojo.
 
Bog said:
Kind of obvious this was going to happen when you think of the size and scope of VII. If you ever wanted to see it, this is how it was gonna happen. I'm fine with it.
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Maybe Square should stop working on 10 000 projects and start working actively on only one game ?

FF7 is already a complete game, they have characters, battle system, world, lore etc... They have the game engine and the people needed to make the project real, it's not like they are starting from 0.
 
Arkeband said:
That's kind of why it was a big deal when it was announced. The simple fact that it couldn't be done. Any asshole studio can release FF7 in tiny chunks, but an honest-to-goodness remake would be HUGE.
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well, i mean, it pretty much can't be done... unless you're down with waiting another 5-10 years. or if you want the remake extremely compromised
 
Guys, it's a remake. FFVII came out on 3 discs. They're recreating it authentically, so FFVII remake will come out on 3 discs. Not sure what the problem is.
 
RobertoSAGuedes said:
OK, I know that generally consumers don't really care about how game development works, but if you want to try to understand why they are going this way, I'll try my best...
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I understand making it episodic is the only way to get it greenlit.

But the fear here, if I'm not mistaken, is game simplification as a result of how it's managed. Anything to make it cost less after dumping so much money into the game's production value.

Instead it might be a game that is linearly structured like Uncharted. Fewer scenes, fewer enemy types, cut from set piece to set piece, etc... just so they can get the episodes out the door and meet the absurd visual standards of a CG film.
 
ZombiePlatypus said:
A JRPG.

We're talking VII here. It's the most sought after remake and one of the ultimate legacy games, with hugely influential characters. A game btw, that became a huge, massive hit, and single handedly put JRPGs on the map in the West, in a market that previously was lukewarm to the genre at best. Not just "A JRPG. "

You give treat this project right with development, and give it real, proper marketing, and it'll compete with any AAA game today.
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The game was about to 11 millions with the steam release according to wikipedia. That's far from 50 millions. It was a game that was huge 12-17 years ago. It's also going to be expensive to make and SE is trying to complete another behemoth right now that took forever to build.
 
Kitoro said:
I'm sure they will, but no one who has been wanting this to happen for well over a decade will be able to wait for a complete box set.

My main concern is that the game will end up being a linear experience devoid of a world map and mostly comprised of Kingdom Hearts style environments that feel less like actual towns, cities, and real environments, and more like themed battlefields.

I haven't played many episodic games that allow much in the way of seamlessly backtracking into areas of previous episodes. I'm also worried that the whole "unique experience" thing in that each part could be handled as differently as they were with FFXIII I, II, and III.

Sure, maybe it won't be as bad as I fear, but with S-E's track record, I remain bothered by this news.
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I think the concerns regarding the world map and how the experience will progress (e.g. linear or not) are all quite valid, so you won't hear much argument from me on that matter at all.

Vamphuntr said:
The game was about to 11 millions with the steam release according to wikipedia. That's far from 50 millions. It was a game that was huge 12-17 years ago. It's also going to be expensive to make and SE is trying to complete another behemoth right now that took forever to build.
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Yep. Even if it's FF7, JRPG's and Final Fantasy just isn't what it used to be.
 
kitchenmotors said:
This post needs to be quoted again.

Honestly, this decision pisses me off as someone who has been a huge fan of FF7 since it came out. This is not what I wanted, at all.
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Its totally true. If there is one game you risk it on, that you put resources and REAL work into its FFVII. You make it damn good and you make it right. A positive reception to this 1 GAME could bring SE back into the masses good graces.

I mean people want this MORE than FFXV. What are they doing?
 
None of the people claiming that remaking FF7 this gen is a technical impossibility without splitting it have played any modern MMO's in the last like... 10 years.

Don't fucking talk to me about "different locales" and "voicework" and "textures" and "caves" and shit. I don't know how these people managed to convince gamers that this cannot be done. It has to be one of gamings most surreal mysteries.
 
cosmicblizzard said:
And few reused assets?
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Do you think Square-Enix would have to hand craft every blade of grass to recreate a convincing FF VII world?

Yes, of course Witcher 3 reuses some assets. Simultaneously, it's impressive how much variety there is in the textures and geography. The overworld is full of character and unique geography. It ranges from swamps to streams to agricultural fields to ocean side fishing villages on to wind swept rocky islands, from villages to massive cities, from towers to dungeons to ships perched on the tops of icy mountains. There is an impressive wealth of unique variety in that game.

Square doesn't have to meticulously recreate every screen of FF VII detail for detail. They could succeed and please most fans by simply capturing the aesthetic of each area, the corrugated iron of the slums to the high tech corridors of Shinra. As evidenced by numerous open world games in this and last generation (e.g. Witcher, Xenoblade, any of a number of other games), the overworld should not be a significant challenge either.

Large scale open world games are a challenge the industry conquered long ago. I don't know why Square-Enix is having such a difficult time doing so themselves.
 
Cipherr said:
None of the people claiming that remaking FF7 this gen is a technical impossibility without splitting it have played any modern MMO's in the last like... 10 years.

Don't fucking talk to me about "different locales" and "voicework" and "textures" and "caves" and shit. I don't know how these people managed to convince gamers that this cannot be done. It has to be one of gamings most surreal mysteries.
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It can be done.

But not if you want to make it look like Advent Children.
 
RobertoSAGuedes said:
OK, I know that generally consumers don't really care about how game development works, but if you want to try to understand why they are going this way, I'll try my best.

1- Final Fantasy VII was a full game, they just needed to remake that.

Every remake means taking the original product and improve on areas not possible before. Anyone expecting this as a graphical/audio remake only would be disappointed no matter what. That would be a Remaster. Everything from aspect ratio, gameplay systems, storytelling mechanics, environment assets, locations and so much more were made for a 1997 game with limitations from that era.

Some of these limitations are responsible for specific features in a game. One of the best known cases is how Silent Hill's fog was created to hide pop-in, which was impossible to avoid. But that can go to generic examples which fit any title: divide locations to mask loading and avoid memory issues, camera positioning to hide weird visual glitches and so on.

So a remake is also an opportunity to improve on some of these limitations and also create something new and refreshing.

2- The data size can't be that much. They could fit it in a couple Blu-Ray discs.

FF VII has a lot of unique assets and locations. If you are curious, take the original or one of its ports and see how many unique assets you can find. They were able to do this in exchange of static rendered backgrounds and no voice acting, which are impossible to get away with in a modern AAA game.

3- Final Fantasy XIII Trilogy has content comparable with FF VII and their data sizes weren't as big.

This is a continuation of comment on the second question. It might be true or not (I'm not sure, I never played that trilogy), but from what I've seen, asset repetition is more common. Not that it's a bad thing. I'd say it's impossible to avoid that without going overbudget and getting massive delays. Remember, this is a remake, with fully 3D maps, NPCs and, of course, a bunch of new content. Add to that a fully voice-acted game (with localization) and unique assets everywhere and your costs go way up.

4- They will make me stop playing or cut parts to make it episodic.

They might. If they miss this opportunity. Here's the thing. Every developer I've talked to about this (no one from Square, I should mention) understood this decision. Game development costs today are simply obscene. You add that to a project which turned into a franchise of its own like Final Fantasy VII and they explode.

I see this as basically: make it episodic (or multi-part series, if that somehow means something different) or don't make it at all, because the costs are prohibitive.

And this is also an opportunity for designers and writers to do their job well. Maybe they will stop an episode/part at a scene some of you speculated. Maybe they will create something new to make it fit better. Maybe they will mess up. Maybe they will find the perfect spot to stop and still leave you to explore an area. It is feasible, to say the least.

Making it episodic/multi-part means being able to recoup costs to still have budget to continue the game in this case.

Now, maybe you don't agree it's a good decision. I won't discuss on that because I don't believe in changing opinions. If you don't think it can work, that's OK. I just hope I shed some light on the decision.
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Great post that sheds light on the difficulties of modern game development. Considering that VII has so many unique assets, do you think they'll be able to fit it all into one disc for when the world opens up?
 
I know we don't know much about what this really is or what the "multi-part" means with regards to if it's just episodes or different stories completely, but what kind of head of marketing would allow this kind of announcement or developer of such a huge high profile game allow this decision in the first place?
 
Cipherr said:
Don't fucking talk to me about "different locales" and "voicework" and "textures" and "caves" and shit. I don't know how these people managed to convince gamers that this cannot be done. It has to be one of gamings most surreal mysteries.
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This. so fucking much.
 
I love how some people are so ridiculously sure this is going to sell like gangbusters. It's ridiculous. I don't think there's even any congruent scenario to compare this to. Has any other company remade a game with this sort of scale before? Not talking remastering or touching things up after porting, but literally remaking a game from the ground up? Is there any history there of it succeeding so wildly?

I realize FF7 was a seminal game in gaming history, but that really doesn't mean this project is for sure going to make them vaults of money. It's probably one of the most risky projects they've ever taken on, honestly.
 
ZombiePlatypus said:
A JRPG.

We're talking VII here. It's the most sought after remake and one of the ultimate legacy games, with hugely influential characters. A game btw, that became a huge, massive hit, and single handedly put JRPGs on the map in the West, in a market that previously was lukewarm to the genre at best. Not just "A JRPG. "

You give treat this project right with development, and give it real, proper marketing, and it'll compete with any AAA game today.
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Exactly! The PSOne Classic version regularly tops the best sellers list for years now. Steamspy says the PC HD port is near a million owners. The PS4 port just released a day ago already has 3,000+ ratings (while the PSOne version has 33000+). The love and thirst is real! FFVII is not any ol' jrpg for darn sure.
 
Angel_DvA said:
Maybe Square should stop working on 10 000 projects and start working actively on only one game ?

FF7 is already a complete game, they have characters, battle system, world, lore etc... They have the game engine and the people needed to make the project real, it's not like they are starting from 0.
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It's like they can't help but over-engineer the hell out of it when all I wanted was a fresh coat of paint.
 
A-V-B said:
It can be done.

But not if you want to make it look like Advent Children.
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People have been fine with DQ remakes that are barely good enough for late PS1 era.

The truth is Square set themselves to standards they haven't been able to follow over this past decade.
 
three_muffins said:
....and cash more? FF7 Remake...be ready to pay 60€ .....er....120€ ......errr 180€ for the complete game. :/
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Or $180 for 3 complete games. Or $120 for 3 smaller complete games. Maybe they're going to explore the breath of the saga from Crisis Core to post Advent Children. We don't know. Why automatically latch on to the bleakest possible scenario?
 
ZombiePlatypus said:
A JRPG.

We're talking VII here. It's the most sought after remake and one of the ultimate legacy games, with hugely influential characters. A game btw, that became a huge, massive hit, and single handedly put JRPGs on the map in the West, in a market that previously was lukewarm to the genre at best. Not just "A JRPG. "

You give treat this project right with development, and give it real, proper marketing, and it'll compete with any AAA game today.
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Don't do this to yourself.
 
So Nomura REALLY wants to realize his dream game that is VersusXIII. FF7remake is going to have Kingdom hearts like combat (VersusXIII), multiple party member control (VersusXIII) and now multiple parts (the VERSUS EPIC).

This game might as well just use the name FINAL FANTSY Versus VII.....lol
 
Kitoro said:
I'm sure they will, but no one who has been wanting this to happen for well over a decade will be able to wait for a complete box set.

My main concern is that the game will end up being a linear experience devoid of a world map and mostly comprised of Kingdom Hearts style environments that feel less like actual towns, cities, and real environments, and more like themed battlefields.

I haven't played many episodic games that allow much in the way of seamlessly backtracking into areas of previous episodes. I'm also worried that the whole "unique experience" thing in that each part could be handled as differently as they were with FFXIII I, II, and III.

Sure, maybe it won't be as bad as I fear, but with S-E's track record, I remain bothered by this news.
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This is my biggest fear too, but it's been my fear since the trailer really. When I posted my thoughts of the trailer I didn't mention this though, since I had nothing to substantiate my fears on, other then a general "vibe" the gameplay and environment gave me. But after hearing this news, I really have to question how an open world and exploration would work across episodic content.
 
ZombiePlatypus said:
Why, cause the market doesn't really care for JRPGs as much? Like it didn't when VII first came out and became a gargantuan hit?
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What's this revisionist bullshit ? The market was much MUCH more receptive to JRPGs back when FF7 released, especially coming out of the SNES era. Especially since japan still dominated the market, and when JRPGS were done still very frequently and were a known pedigree amongst most gamers.

A "one-game" FF7 could probably sell like hotcakes (hell it would) but nowhere near 50 million. The best it could hope for is possibly 10 million, rivalling the likes of pokemon maybe, and that's unsure even. Japan has lost interest in consoles. And the west is not that big JRPG consumer realm that it was. And no guarantee for square who would have to work for several years, pouring millions into this project (with all the risks during this development hell. I mean look at their other recent projects). And i'm sorry but they're a big company, they have employees who need their job. Going "all out" on a single project, even FF7, is being completely unreasonable and putting fanboyism over common sense
 
bigdog said:
I know we don't know much about what this really is or what the "multi-part" means with regards to if it's just episodes or different stories completely, but what kind of head of marketing would allow this kind of announcement or developer of such a huge high profile game allow this decision in the first place?
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Japanese devs have been straight retarded for nearly the past decade. You would think they have a bunch of chimps making company decisions over there.
 
Cipherr said:
Amen. Before this was said I don't recall ANYONE suggesting or hoping that the goddamned game would be diced up and sold to us in small pieces. Now all of a sudden they pull this bullshit and they have defenders everywhere swearing that there is no alternative to such an approach. As if the advancing technology of the last 20 years means nothing, and that somehow as time has progressed, remaking FF7 has strangely become impossible.
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Square Enix always said that remaking a game like FFVII with modern technology is a supermassive undertaking, which is why they've hesitated making it.. And people HAVE been wondering how they'll actually pull it off considering the workload. A lot of people assumed they would just cut fucktons of content & corners, but SQEX seems to be doing it in a way where they can retain as much of FFVII as possible, but just divided into more than one game due to that. Remaking FFVII isn't impossible, it's just a really huge undertaking if they are going to do it in the way that people who saw that PS3 FFVII tech demo all those years ago have been imagining. FFVII on PS1 wasn't a cheap, that made with PS4 level graphics & more modern design sensibilities would be far more expensive & take a hell of a lot of time, especially if people want an experience that doesn't cut too many of the things they liked about the world, story & setting of FFVII.

And you assume they are going to sell this in "small pieces". Sure, if those pieces are actually small, then this whole project is a bust, but if one of those "small pieces" is actually a 30+ hour RPG, then I personally don't have all that many complaints if the content & gameplay is entertaining, especially if it gives me the kind of FFVII remake that looks like the game does now, doesn't cut any meaningful stuff from the game (beyond world map & airships, those I've pretty much assumed would be cut from day 1) and I can actually play a (hopefully big) part of it maybe in the next 2 or so years.
 
RDreamer said:
I realize FF7 was a seminal game in gaming history, but that really doesn't mean this project is for sure going to make them vaults of money. It's probably one of the most risky projects they've ever taken on, honestly.
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It is nowhere near as risky as FFXV. A game that has taken 10 damn years to make and who knows how much of gods money has been spent on it. While having no guaranteed audience for it while burning people out on the FFXIII trilogy that sold pretty terribly after the first and had also terrible reception.

FFVII Remake is infinitely safer.
 
Paracelsus said:
People have been fine with DQ remakes that are barely good enough for late PS1 era.

The truth is Square set themselves to standards they themselves haven't been able to follow over this past decade.
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They've been able to meet those standards, but at the cost of other important qualities. I think they've largely lost content in favor of intense spectacle.
 
RDreamer said:
I love how some people are so ridiculously sure this is going to sell like gangbusters. It's ridiculous. I don't think there's even any congruent scenario to compare this to. Has any other company remade a game with this sort of scale before? Not talking remastering or touching things up after porting, but literally remaking a game from the ground up? Is there any history there of it succeeding so wildly?
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Pokemon remakes sell upwards of 10 million copies per generation. I realize it isn't a fair comparison, but there's that.
 
RDreamer said:
I love how some people are so ridiculously sure this is going to sell like gangbusters. It's ridiculous. I don't think there's even any congruent scenario to compare this to. Has any other company remade a game with this sort of scale before? Not talking remastering or touching things up after porting, but literally remaking a game from the ground up? Is there any history there of it succeeding so wildly?

I realize FF7 was a seminal game in gaming history, but that really doesn't mean this project is for sure going to make them vaults of money. It's probably one of the most risky projects they've ever taken on, honestly.
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Well I mean, the E3 trailer has literally twice as many views as any Uncharted E3 trailer. (12 Million vs. 6 Million)

Think about that for a second, twice as much as Sony's biggest exclusive franchise.
 
Ishida said:
You finally step out of Midgar and stare at the beautiful distance. A huge overworld stretches as far as the eye can see, rendered in perfect HD graphics. Your characters look stoic and prepared. Ready for a new adventure.

"To be continued in Final Fantasy VII Remake, Part 2".

FUUUUUUUCK.

Then you have to wait 6 months for the next episode. You finally download it, start it and...

Your characters immediately start at Kalm. You cannot leave the town. Cloud comments on how amazing it was to get there, to fight the monsters, to see the creatures, to see the hills and plains.
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Even if we do get a world map at the start of Episode 2, having the Midgar episode end right after the motorcycle chase, with Cloud staring off over that iconic scene of the unfinished highway...

GGvjtND.png


...only to be met with To Be Continued, would be a huge blow to the pacing of the game and the feelings that scene was meant to convey.
 
RDreamer said:
I realize FF7 was a seminal game in gaming history, but that really doesn't mean this project is for sure going to make them vaults of money. It's probably one of the most risky projects they've ever taken on, honestly.
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Suddenly, a remake of a company's most popular, best selling, iconic game of all time with a modern action combat system is the most risky project ever taken on by said company. Yep. That's where we're at.
 
MissDeviling said:
Great post that sheds light on the difficulties of modern game development. Considering that VII has so many unique assets, do you think they'll be able to fit it all into one disc for when the world opens up?
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Of course they would. Xenoblade X has a larger world than Final Fantasy VII with flying mechs and it runs on the Wii U just fine.
 
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