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[Magnus]

How, exactly, does FFXIII's battle system need more development? I can't think of one thing that needs to be added.

User controls for ability prioritization. User controls for target prioritization. User controls for threshold prioritization (but that's truly secondary, and I wouldn't be irate about the system if the first two were present and this was disregarded).

It all depends on the type of enemy you face and what types of attacks they favor. If the enemy primarily bombards you with high damaging physical or magical attacks, the AI should definitely favor Protect and Shell first. However, I usually have Bravery and Faith come out first, at least in Chapter 13 against turtles.

This is the point. Spell priorities are out of your control; they are determined by enemy types and abilities and whether or not Libra/combat have fleshed out enemy weaknesses. They aren't determined by you, the player.

Again, really, I don't see how people have these problems. My Synergists use the buffs I need -- Enfire so I can do some damage, THEN some protective buffs afterward.

Dude, it's totally cool if you want the game to be played for you. Just say it.

There's a fundamental point being missed in every back and forth on the last two pages; the game's deciding shit. You, the player, aren't. What if I want Protect up first? What if I only want to buff my SEN? Guess I can't. Enfire or whatever has to go up first.

Even if the AI was brilliant and never made a mistake, that's not the game I want to play. I don't want an AI helping me that always does the perfect thing. What kind of game is that? That's an interactive movie.

I guess what I'm saying is, that for all the control Paradigm Shifting actually offers you, it's a declined gradation of control. The player isn't "casting Protect on a tank", "healing allies below 50% health" and "staggering the enemy with the lowest health". The player is screaming "Attack!", or "Chain that fucker!" or "Heal up!" or "Buff!" The precision and surgical decision making is utterly gone. It's like we're playing FF: Mystic Quest 2.0.

The panic induced in most fights (particularly the hardest five fights in the game scattered over the last five chapters) is a result of the player only being able to issue these vague overarching commands instead of specific instructions. You scream "Heal!" and just hope to god the heals go to the right person. You shout "buff!" and just cross your fingers that the AI chooses to get Bravery and Faith up early instead of fucking Veil.

I'm glad Haste is almost always prioritized among buff spells. I mean, I'm glad the game decided that. I certainly didn't, but it's cool that we agreed on something, that wily AI and I!

 

[desverger]

Alright, I just got control of Fang. Should I fully level up Commando and only concentrate on that or should I split it up evenly? What is she best at?

Commando, Saboteur, Sentinel - in that order

Highwiiind!

 

[Magnus]

Commando, Saboteur, Sentinel - in that order

Highwiiind!

Damn, I gotta remember to fire up my RAVs and see these new abilities!

I also have to remember to try out the other five summons for the first time. :lol

Oh post-game! What treasures await me.

 

[Unknown One]

Reading your post Magnus I wish this game has voice commands like Socom does.

"Hope heal lightning!"
"Hope cast haste on Fang!"

Not having to say it all the time but when you really want something done.

 

[Dresden]

If only you could customize each paradigm like they were gambits. Best of both worlds.

As for where XIII ranks for me, regarding JRPGs I've played and completed this generation (precious few), I'd say that they'd go like this:

Resonance of Fate* (I haven't finished it, but it's so awesome that I'll just put it here.)
Tales of Vesperia
FFXIII
Lost Odyssey

I didn't count the Persona games, or SRPGs, so I suppose its a bit flawed.

 

[grumble]

User controls for ability prioritization. User controls for target prioritization. User controls for threshold prioritization (but that's truly secondary, and I wouldn't be irate about the system if the first two were present and this was disregarded).



This is the point. Spell priorities are out of your control; they are determined by enemy types and abilities and whether or not Libra/combat have fleshed out enemy weaknesses. They aren't determined by you, the player.



Dude, it's totally cool if you want the game to be played for you. Just say it.

There's a fundamental point being missed in every back and forth on the last two pages; the game's deciding shit. You, the player, aren't. What if I want Protect up first? What if I only want to buff my SEN? Guess I can't. Enfire or whatever has to go up first.

Even if the AI was brilliant and never made a mistake, that's not the game I want to play. I don't want an AI helping me that always does the perfect thing. What kind of game is that? That's an interactive movie.

I guess what I'm saying is, that for all the control Paradigm Shifting actually offers you, it's a declined gradation of control. The player isn't "casting Protect on a tank", "healing allies below 50% health" and "staggering the enemy with the lowest health". The player is screaming "Attack!", or "Chain that fucker!" or "Heal up!" or "Buff!" The precision and surgical decision making is utterly gone. It's like we're playing FF: Mystic Quest 2.0.

The panic induced in most fights (particularly the hardest five fights in the game scattered over the last five chapters) is a result of the player only being able to issue these vague overarching commands instead of specific instructions. You scream "Heal!" and just hope to god the heals go to the right person. You shout "buff!" and just cross your fingers that the AI chooses to get Bravery and Faith up early instead of fucking Veil.

I'm glad Haste is almost always prioritized among buff spells. I mean, I'm glad the game decided that. I certainly didn't, but it's cool that we agreed on something, that wily AI and I!

Some people don't like micromanaging hell, either. Managing battle strategy seems pretty good to me.

 

[Cep]

Some people don't like micromanaging hell, either. Managing battle strategy seems pretty good to me.

I love macro, but I do not like frustrating artificial limits.

If need be, I should be able to override the A.I. in times of need. Most good RPGs with AI allow for this.

 

[Darkatomz]

Does anybody have list of recommended weapon upgrades for each character? The guide doesn't really sum it up very well, and there isn't anything of use on GameFAQs at the moment.

I'm just looking for the best all-around weapons for each character, since I know everyone has a different playstyle.

 

[Papercuts]

If only you could customize each paradigm like they were gambits. Best of both worlds.

As for where XIII ranks for me, regarding JRPGs I've played and completed this generation (precious few), I'd say that they'd go like this:

Resonance of Fate* (I haven't finished it, but it's so awesome that I'll just put it here.)
Tales of Vesperia
FFXIII
Lost Odyssey

I didn't count the Persona games, or SRPGs, so I suppose its a bit flawed.

Seems like a lot of gaf is really liking RoF, I might have to try it soon. Vesperia has been the best JRPG for me this gen so far.

 

[Magnus]

Some people don't like micromanaging hell, either. Managing battle strategy seems pretty good to me.

There's a middle ground to be sure. I hated a couple fights in XII that I felt I could only get past if I had ridiculously intricate gambit setups to cover every possible base. It was a thing of beauty if it all executed properly though.

As for XIII, there's still really no excuse for me not being able to simply pop into any character's ability list and choose an ability and target manually if need be. Sure it'll slow me down compared to the auto-battle frenzy that dominates the battle, but I'll execute my own chosen actions.

edit- (what Cep said)

I mentioned it a while back, but I'll re-mention -- it'd be so amazing to be able to declare a Focus Target in battle, whether an ally or enemy, to specify as the priority for attacks or abilities. Your attackers could stagger/attack that enemy, and if you placed that Target on an ally, your healers and buffers would take care of that target first. It would go a long way to helping you guide the flow of battle.

 

[Cep]

Seems like a lot of gaf is really liking RoF, I might have to try it soon. Vesperia has been the best JRPG for me this gen so far.

The best traditional, console one anyway.

For me at least.

 

[desverger]

Damn, I gotta remember to fire up my RAVs and see these new abilities!

I also have to remember to try out the other five summons for the first time. :lol

Oh post-game! What treasures await me.

Game shines stupawesomely Chapter 12 onwards. Just too bad it took so long to get here

 

[Dresden]

Seems like a lot of gaf is really liking RoF, I might have to try it soon. Vesperia has been the best JRPG for me this gen so far.

It's been awesome so far.

And Leanne >>> Vanille by a significant margin. Suck on that, VDF!

 

[Cep]

It's been awesome so far.

And Leanne >>> Vanille by a significant margin. Suck on that, VDF!

Thought you were a member?

 

[Dresden]

Thought you were a member?

It was a very temporary membership.

 

[M°°nblade]

Again, really, I don't see how people have these problems. My Synergists use the buffs I need -- Enfire so I can do some damage, THEN some protective buffs afterward.

Me neither, but I haven't done any post-game missions yet.

The battle system is definitely good enough for the main story difficulty level. The battle system isn't perfect, but this is by far the best AI I've seen in a realtime RPG.

 

[Magnus]

Yeah, I definitely got a real rush out of Chapter 12. The introductory cutscene was so ridiculous, but bizarrely fun to watch, and the ensuing chaos was definitely a bright moment for the game.

I could honestly only hazard a guess at what was happening half the time in that intro.

Chapter 12

Spoiler

What was it, a grand prix race to celebrate Cid's inauguration as chief douche?

The action was over the top, and Transformers-like in its headache-inducing chaos. I could barely tell what was happening in half the sequences. I was still grinning like an idiot, though. :lol

Chapter 13 was

Spoiler

a let down for me personally. Visually, it was rather awesome. But then, FF has a history of pretty awesome final locations (VI, VII, VIII spring to mind right away -- can't remember IX or XII's, X was bland as shit, but the notion of being inside Sin was neat :lol ). But gameplay-wise, same ol' same ol'.

 

[Cep]

It was a very temporary membership.

Join us!

We only have one rule.

Me neither, but I haven't done any post-game missions yet.

The battle system is definitely good enough for the main story difficulty level. The battle system isn't perfect, but this is by far the best AI I've seen in a realtime RPG.

You cannot be serious.

 

[M°°nblade]

You cannot be serious.

Why not?

I think you just suck at the game and want to blame it on something.

 

[Dresden]

Why not?

I think you just suck at the game and want to blame it on something.

Let's not go there~

I do agree with you a bit on the AI, but in the end more customization and a bit more control over what they do would have done wonders.

 

[_Xenon_]

Some people don't like micromanaging hell, either. Managing battle strategy seems pretty good to me.

Total micromanagement is unnecessary and out of date. This game just needs a gamebit kinda system so that the AI could cast spells / use skills based on the priority I desired instead of some hardcoded bullshit.

 

[marathonfool]

:lol @ my target time of 40 minutes on Long Gui.

Too bad when I tried it the first time he casted doom on me 20 minutes into battle.

I came prepared the second time. 5 summons and 4 elixirs later, Long Gui is dead.

That was fun. Killed every single enemy in this game and completed all the missions. The only things left to do are the grind heavy stuff which I will completely ignore.

Overall, I loved the battle system, characters, and mythology. The story and writing can be improved, but what can I say, I had a great time playing FF13.

 

[M°°nblade]

Let's not go there~

I do agree with you a bit on the AI, but in the end more customization and a bit more control over what they do would have done wonders.

Sorry, I can't see how shifting priority between brave/faith and protect/shell shell could do wonders. I haven't seen a single battle where a detail like that was the decisive factor between winning or losing.

 

[Toki767]

Something I noticed about Lightning.

Spoiler

In the English version her real name is Claire but in the Japanese version her real name is Eclair, which is French for lightning. Was this done on purpose or some mistranslation?

 

[Papercuts]

Sorry, I can't see how shifting priority between brave/faith and protect/shell shell could do wonders. I haven't seen a single battle where a detail like that was the decisive factor between winning or losing.

With the way the AI casts, it can happen a lot. Faith on one guy, wait, faith on the next, wait, faith again. Repeat for Brave. Not to mention it doesn't even happen like this, it's Haste, then usually En___, blah blah. Shell and Protect should be right after haste.

On hard enemies that can be killer, you want protection immediately, or atleast don't want to force a medic into play with something buffing your team because they take too long to get to shell and protect. Decisive factor? Not THAT extreme, but it's one cog of the downhill wheel that is you getting assfucked by some boss.

 

[desverger]

I don't have big gripes about the battle system (yet), I just try to plan around it's limitations.

 

[Yoshichan]

107h

Congrats man!

 

[Styles]

No fucking way, 3 traps in a row? And I don't even need them anymore, man. Where are the freakin' Ingots when you need 'em.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

No fucking way, 3 traps in a row? And I don't even need them anymore, man. Where are the freakin' Ingots when you need 'em.

THIS A THOUSAND TIME THIS.

 

[Yoshichan]

No fucking way, 3 traps in a row? And I don't even need them anymore, man. Where are the freakin' Ingots when you need 'em.

I remember this problem. It's weird I tell you.

Question for everyone who has heard all the themes in the game... what's your favorite one? I can't decide O_O

 

[jersoc]

No fucking way, 3 traps in a row? And I don't even need them anymore, man. Where are the freakin' Ingots when you need 'em.

i have the same problem. i've gotten about 5 traps and 2 ingots. i had to resort to farming the bomb shells.

 

[Le-mo]

doesn't quite live up to the hype, but it's a decent turn for the positive after the horrid XII

I fking love FF XII and from what I've played so far in FF XIII there is no comparison. The ONLY thing that FF XIII may have over FF XII is the battle system. FF XIII may be the worst FF game that I have played

 

[Alex]

I would argue that the battle system is one of the worst in the series, it's flashy and pretty and kinetic, but it's still entirely brain dead and tied to brain dead systems. Playing a chunk of Resonance of Fate after this is a mindfuck.

The AI is so fucking awful especially, ugh. I don't understand why they had things so right for a speedy, polished ATB system with FFX-2 then hit it with a sledgehammer.

 

[Cep]

I would argue that the battle system is one of the worst in the series, it's flashy and pretty and kinetic, but it's still entirely brain dead and tied to brain dead systems. Playing a chunk of Resonance of Fate after this is a mindfuck.

The AI is so fucking awful especially, ugh. I don't understand why they had things so right for a speedy, polished ATB system with FFX-2 then hit it with a sledgehammer.

I think it may be a bit hyperbolic to call it one of the worst, but at the end of the day, the fact that it is so different does not save it from being a little broken.

 

[Amir0x]

The divide between people who only love FFXII and people who only love FFXIII (not both) is quite amusingly large. But it also speaks clearly to the type of things those gamers value in their titles. It's easy to see who aligns with your own taste and who doesn't when it comes to jRPGs based entirely on what they choose there.

 

[toastyToast]

God damn you Neochu.

After spending about half an hour trying cast death on this fool it finally works only to realize that I didn't set up any offensive paradigms! His little henchman chewed me up in less than a minute !!!

I can't remember the last time I've been so enraged playing a

Spoiler

non-fighting

game

 

[Diablos]

Question for post-game stuff even though I'm not there yet (so please don't mention anything else):

Spoiler

Can I still do missions and stuff after I beat the final boss?

 

[jiggle]

Question for post-game stuff even though I'm not there yet (so please don't mention anything else):

Spoiler

Can I still do missions and stuff after I beat the final boss?

yes

 

[Diablos]

Ooh cool.

 

[rainer516]

The divide between people who only love FFXII and people who only love FFXIII (not both) is quite amusingly large. But it also speaks clearly to the type of things those gamers value in their titles. It's easy to see who aligns with your own taste and who doesn't when it comes to jRPGs based entirely on what they choose there.

I love both. They're both excellent games.

 

[Replicant]

yes

WHAT? Really?

Spoiler

After you beat the final boss? Wouldn't you lose 2 characters at that point?

 

[jiggle]

WHAT? Really?

Spoiler

After you beat the final boss? Wouldn't you lose 2 characters at that point?

Spoiler

endgame starts u off before the final fight, but with stage 10 crystarium unlocked

 

[Yoshichan]

WHAT? Really?

Spoiler

After you beat the final boss? Wouldn't you lose 2 characters at that point?

Spoiler

It will load the save before the end boss.

 

[Dragon]

I love macro, but I do not like frustrating artificial limits.

If need be, I should be able to override the A.I. in times of need. Most good RPGs with AI allow for this.

I'm really confused by all these complaints. Is there a reason you can't just go to the abilities menu and add them to the queue yourself? Then again I'm on chapter 7 so maybe I'm missing something.

 

[luxarific]

I'm really confused by all these complaints. Is there a reason you can't just go to the abilities menu and add them to the queue yourself? Then again I'm on chapter 7 so maybe I'm missing something.

I think they mean overriding the actions of your AI-controlled team mates in the battle party. E.g., when somebody dies, Vanille will NEVER raise them unless both she and the player character are at 75-90% health. The enemy is pounding away at only two characters and Vanille happily sits there healing and re-healing me to 75-80%, never quite understanding that we can't gain back the initiative in the battle unless she raises the KO teammate. I inevitably have to step in with a phoenix down or TP-healing.

The AI is just extremely brain dead in many instances. Don't know why Square didn't consider these scenarios when they were programming it. It seems like something they should have caught in game-testing.

 

[pix]

Am I good enough to start farming adamantoise? I completed the game yesterday and did mission 1-51 (Atticus was easy with a certain strat, just took a while)

I maxed out one role of each character to get the trophies as well. I have over 10k HP.

Also I notice there are like 3 different kinds of adamantoise, and was wondering which ones drop traps. Can anyone post a strategy they use to farm them or where to go farm them at?

 

[Ricker]

Backtracking question,for one of the rare quest in this game,in chapter 11,not the missions but a little side thing,is it worth it:

Spoiler

finding the 5 parts to repair Vanille`s little robot pet thing?

I went further then that I think,beat a long Boss fight but I could go back to finish this.

 

[lljride]

Shaolong Gui is pissing me off, anyone have a good strategy? I tried a couple of times last night and got stomped like 3 times in a row. Got frustrated and went back to farming platinum ingots in Eden thinking I'd just buy the damn dark matters, which leads to my next question...

Ok, is the drop rate for platinum ingots screwed in Eden or am I just unlucky? I have the normal drop item equipped, but I swear 8 out of the 10 I beat last night gave me nothing, 1 gave me a trap (which I don't need, like everyone on the last page), and fucking ONE gave me a platinum. I never went on a bad streak like that in Gran Pulse even using the summon/death method. At least I have my timing down to where I can kill him in about 2:00 or so without a summon.

 

[Yoshichan]

Backtracking question,for one of the rare quest in this game,in chapter 11,not the missions but a little side thing,is it worth it:

Spoiler

finding the 5 parts to repair Vanille`s little robot pet thing?

I went further then that I think,beat a long Boss fight but I could go back to finish this.

You get 600k gil. You can backtrack to it.

 

[jiggle]

Am I good enough to start farming adamantoise? I completed the game yesterday and did mission 1-51 (Atticus was easy with a certain strat, just took a while)

I maxed out one role of each character to get the trophies as well. I have over 10k HP.

Also I notice there are like 3 different kinds of adamantoise, and was wondering which ones drop traps. Can anyone post a strategy they use to farm them or where to go farm them at?

adamantortoise (3mil HP) and adamantoise (5mil HP) drops trapz

you can take them on now with death method


to fight adamantortoise normally and get 5 stars, i had to cap 3 main jobs

i believe for adamantoise, u'll need all 6 jobs capped(?) plus genji glove+ tier3 weapon for fang