Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Beta Phase 3 Impression: Phase 4 August

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Fancy Corndog said:
In FFXIV, it seems these things are one in the same. You do your quests which take you to the instances and that's where you get your EXP and rewards. If you get off of the train to try and beef up your character, all you see is FATE and hunting logs. You can't go and get that rewarding feeling of obtaining something that you know will change your character's performance relative to everyone else's. There's no way to stand out because everyone is progressing along the same path.
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That's the thing though, it isn't one in the same. The first three dungeons, sure. Yoshida specifically wanted it that way as a way to slowly teach and introduce newer players to the idea of grouping up for instances, but once those three dungeons are complete and you're 18+ (teehee) your open to a variety of ways of leveling and gearing up.

Besides, to agree with what's being said above, the idea of Leaping Lizzy boots or Emp's Hairpin lasting til cap isn't very appealing gear progression.
 
Foaloal said:
I think the bigger difference is the amount of time it takes to get from 1-50. In FFXI you might spend many months getting to the level cap, so you were able to appreciate the little things you picked up along the way. In FFXIV it'll probably take most people a week or two, so you might only wear those awesome new lvl 20 gloves for a day before you move to the next thing.
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I think this is a good point. FFXI required some serious patience and dedication to reach that next plateau of leveling, so every small accomplishment felt like a big deal. Even hitting each next level was a great feeling because it gave you something to show for the hours you put into it that day.

It also made it easier to log on some days and want to try something new instead of spending the next few hours getting a party together to maybe get halfway to your next level.

I like that XIV allows for quickly clearing goalposts, as I have a busier schedule than I used to, but at the same time I don't want it to end up being so linear. I like being able to do side stuff that can give my character an edge. I hope they can find a balance between the accessibility they're seeking while still providing plenty of "off the beaten path" content that's challenging with cool and practical rewards.
 
Shouta said:
Horizontal progression was actually one of the biggest problems with FFXI for a long time. Incremental upgrades or gear that wasn't an upgrade but still equally difficult to attain was a huge issue. It's still remained a problem in fact because the levels of customization to make proper horizontal progression work didn't actually exist.

XIV has that base to work with though, being far based around the skills you use than just the stats, so there's some flexibility when it comes to what they can do for gear.
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I liked the horizontal progress, because it created alternate avenues for gear, and also ensured that some BIS items that a lot of time had been spent toward would still retain their worth. On the flip side, it is daunting to require so much investment of time and effort on so many different fronts to be able to catch up for new players, so I understand why WoW did major gear resets by dramatically raising ilevel with each new expansion.

That's not to say it has to be either/or, but in striking a balance between the two for chasing gear, I would personally prefer to skew it toward the horizontal.
 
I really think people should either let go of FFXI or simply go back and play it to see if you feel the way you say you feel right now. Hell, it's getting two new updates this summer alone.
 
Kintaro said:
I really think people should either let go of FFXI or simply go back and play it to see if you feel the way you say you feel right now. Hell, it's getting two new updates this summer alone.
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It's hard not to make comparisons considering that it's the only other Final Fantasy MMO, and thus the most similar.

Also, I know it's unrelated to gameplay but something that bugged me when 1.0 came out and still kind of does is that they didn't create any new races... just modified the ones from XI. I actually remember reading a post a while back about them possibly creating a new race later in XIV.... or was I dreaming that?
 
DaFunk said:
I actually remember reading a post a while back about them possibly creating a new race later in XIV.... or was I dreaming that?
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You weren't dreaming. Yoshida has considered the option for an expansion, there's nothing confirmed but he has said that if they add one it will be through an expansion, and that Viera, thanks not just to the fans but to the other Yoshida is very high in the options.
 
dramatis said:
I don't exactly recall needing the third step? You just login with your SE account on your PS3 when you reach a screen with FF14 on it and it asks for login details.
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Thanks for your help. It seems I'll have to do that tomorrow, it just says server unavailable right now.

Doh.
 
Khrno said:
I hope they add loot to these FATE NMs, even if they are given randomly to anyone that got a gold ranking during the fight. The items won't be the best thing in the game, but at least it is something else to look forward to besides the normal exp.

Also Yoshida has mentioned how we wants to make high level FATE NMs special, to make FC go fight them, so probably they will have some sort of loot, and they won't just be achievement NMs that you kill once and never care again.
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Drops for NM Fates would be pretty sweet, though during the beta the reward wasn't too bad to begin with. I know a whole group of us dropped Cancer (giant enemy crab south of Costa del Sol that we attacked for massive damage) several times and managed about 20k a kill and a bunch of seals. Not bad for a 15-20 fight.

I see FC raids becoming the way they try and tackle NMs and high level loot drops, similar to WoW. I personally would love to see NMs in the wild that aren't tied to Fates, just not sure if SE will go in that direction as well.
 
StMeph said:
I liked the horizontal progress, because it created alternate avenues for gear, and also ensured that some BIS items that a lot of time had been spent toward would still retain their worth. On the flip side, it is daunting to require so much investment of time and effort on so many different fronts to be able to catch up for new players, so I understand why WoW did major gear resets by dramatically raising ilevel with each new expansion.

That's not to say it has to be either/or, but in striking a balance between the two for chasing gear, I would personally prefer to skew it toward the horizontal.
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Horizontal progression is fine if done right much like vertical progression is fine if done right. Neither XI nor WoW really did either correctly but I'd be personally prefer taking WoW's approach in the end over XI's. At least it feels like I'm going somewhere instead of running circles hoping to get something that's maybe a downgraded version of the best gear.
 
Shouta said:
Horizontal progression was actually one of the biggest problems with FFXI for a long time. Incremental upgrades or gear that wasn't an upgrade but still equally difficult to attain was a huge issue. It's still remained a problem in fact because the levels of customization to make proper horizontal progression work didn't actually exist.
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While FFXI doesn't exactly execute it an ideal fashion (many underutilized or poorly designed stats, such as "Resist" or VIT/Defense, and a few OP ones like Haste, elemental potency, or elemental resistance after a certain point), it still had the effect where I didn't feel like I was on a treadmill and didn't feel like everything I treasured now will be useless in a year or less. Once I've established myself as a certain job everything else felt like a bonus, squeezing out efficiency. This was very important for me as a player, one who doesn't even like MMOs.

While you didn't see people go wild with all the possibilities, they sort of side stepped that problem with gear swapping. While it is slightly off-putting at first thematically (or at least until they finally canonize and limit it with "dress-spheres" lol), I think it opens up a lot of freedom with gear design. Gear with situational stats don't have to feel the pressure of taking up a slot that could be filled on something more consistent. It makes me a little sad that I'll never equip the equivalent to "magic burst damage+" in FFXIV, even if such a thing existed (or could exist, given what I'm saying about gear design). This is actually a good way to balance between keeping casual and hardcore players (or players who transition between these) happy. Have stats like base damage, accuracy, and damage mitigation be relatively easy to keep up with, but have gear that gets the most of your actions and situations require more work (more so from the sheer amount of it rather than individual pieces being stupid rare). Something like the Armoury Chest would have been a godsend in FFXI, too. I won't excuse the shitty drop rates though.

So yeah... make carrying around armor painless (done), balance/limit and contextualize it with a dress-sphere/paradigm shift mechanic (easily done - remember when our character was suddenly imbued with our class's job's artifact armor? Tag a few gear sets which don't change your weapon (or class?) or job soul for battle, put a shared timer on their use, and you got it), and make a combat system and content where all stats are useful in some context with to some class/job and design equipment to make use of that (they need to do something to make me care about stats anyway). Don't make drop rates (more viable relevant pieces of equipment means you don't have to make it so hard to get a single piece) too bullshit and have something between FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 in terms of progression rate. Sign me up. I just convinced myself that I want gear swapping in FFXIV and I was always against the idea.

EDIT: Suddenly crafting, dungeons, and grand companies can coexist freely.
 
Riposte said:
While FFXI doesn't exactly execute it an ideal fashion (many underutilized or poorly designed stats, such as "Resist" or VIT/Defense, and a few OP ones like Haste, elemental potency, or elemental resistance after a certain point), it still had the effect where I didn't feel like I was on a treadmill and didn't feel like everything I treasured now will be useless in a year or less. Once I've established myself as a certain job everything else felt like a bonus, squeezing out efficiency. This was very important for me as a player, one who doesn't even like MMOs.
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Felt like a treadmill to me after playing for so long but that's probably the fact that the game was so limited in stats and the community so hardline on efficiency.

I'd be happy without gear swapping in XIV. It was one of the things that really lent itself to promoting min/max a lot. I'd prefer a wider selection of gear with lots of abilities to let a person customize one set that they enjoy.
 
Gear swapping is gross and the absolute worst thing about playing FFXI.

I will send Riposte a really irate PM if it ever becomes a thing in FFXIV.
 
Shouta said:
Felt like a treadmill to me after playing for so long but that's probably the fact that the game was so limited in stats and the community so hardline on efficiency.

I'd be happy without gear swapping in XIV. It was one of the things that really lent itself to promoting min/max a lot. I'd prefer a wider selection of gear with lots of abilities to let a person customize one set that they enjoy.
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The way FFXIV feels like now is that the game does the min/max for you and gear is utterly devoid of character because of it. I'm a DRG. I will get whatever has the highest damage rating, followed by STR, followed by Accuracy, followed by Determination. I'll run in the opposite direction of skill speed. That's it. This will be accomplished by doing the level 50 dungeon, then the level 50 (item level 60) dungeon, then... etc. I don't know how crafting will fit into this, but probably not very well unless I get really lucky on a piece of materia-infused gear.

frequency said:
Gear swapping is gross and the absolute worst thing about playing FFXI.

I will send Riposte a really irate PM if it ever becomes a thing in FFXIV.
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I'll hang it on my wall.
 
Pfft, everyone told me I needed to swap and make macros for skills to be a good Blue Mage.

I performed pretty nicely without either.
 
Is anyone playing the beta on a SSD? I just got one the other day and I'm wondering if it's worth downloading/installing the beta again. I know that some MMOs on SSDs don't make a noticeable difference since they have to load a lot of data from the server.
 
aett said:
Is anyone playing the beta on a SSD? I just got one the other day and I'm wondering if it's worth downloading/installing the beta again. I know that some MMOs on SSDs don't make a noticeable difference since they have to load a lot of data from the server.
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I can't offer a comparison of what it's like running off of a non-SSD drive, but I can say that zone changes are very quick running on a Crucial M4.
 
Riposte said:
The way FFXIV feels like now is that the game does the min/max for you and gear is utterly devoid of character because of it. I'm a DRG. I will get whatever has the highest damage rating, followed by STR, followed by Accuracy, followed by Determination. I'll run in the opposite direction of skill speed. That's it. This will be accomplished by doing the level 50 dungeon, then the level 50 (item level 60) dungeon, then... etc. I don't know how crafting will fit into this, but probably not very well unless I get really lucky on a piece of materia-infused gear.



I'll hang it on my wall.
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I don't think gear swapping will ever make a comeback if they are hoping to grab the casual with this one.

Without min/max twinking by characters, it comes down to the player's skill instead of a matter of what armor and gear they have. In one way, better players will stand out for be skilled at their job. On the other hand, those pushing for the extra oomph won't be able to expand beyond what ever other player can do at max level.

I'm fine with making the game more accessible (early FFXI was pretty much the opposite) but not realy at the cost of holding back players who are both skilled and want that extra edge over other players. I'm not sure how you fix that, but there needs to be something in place, whether it's gear swapping or hardmode dungeons that only offer up the top-tier items or something.

aett said:
Is anyone playing the beta on a SSD? I just got one the other day and I'm wondering if it's worth downloading/installing the beta again. I know that some MMOs on SSDs don't make a noticeable difference since they have to load a lot of data from the server.
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I don't have a comparison either, but it seems to load farily quickly on my SSD. I'm just limited due to my horrible internet connection.
 
daveo42 said:
I don't think gear swapping will ever make a comeback if they are hoping to grab the casual with this one.

Without min/max twinking by characters, it comes down to the player's skill instead of a matter of what armor and gear they have. In one way, better players will stand out for be skilled at their job. On the other hand, those pushing for the extra oomph won't be able to expand beyond what ever other player can do at max level.

I'm fine with making the game more accessible (early FFXI was pretty much the opposite) but not realy at the cost of holding back players who are both skilled and want that extra edge over other players. I'm not sure how you fix that, but there needs to be something in place, whether it's gear swapping or hardmode dungeons that only offer up the top-tier items or something.
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Yoshida said:
We already have plans to implement multiple difficulties of the dungeons. It should be ready not too far off from the official release. Not only will you see changes in the monster's placement, we plan to make adjustments to the level design as well!
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That anticipation.
 
Gear could incorporate PVP specific boosts and abilities that encourage min-maxing for competitive players. I'm not a big fan of min-maxing for general world gameplay after my experience with gear-dependent games like Ragnarok Online. It has min-maxing in spades, but because of it the point of the game has became about getting the best gear and card combos for the War of Emperium guild battles or PVP arenas, rather than what it was at release when the draw was exploring the world and learning its lore. I like the idea of keeping PVP and PVE systems separate from one another to encourage different play styles. TERA's approach to gear abilities isn't so bad either, though fairly simplistic in comparison to RO. I don't doubt that XIV will eventually incorporate armor abilities and perhaps character customization of armor bonuses via crafting.
 
Has anyone who already had a 1.0 account bought the game again? Just bought it from Green Man Gaming and can't for the life of me figure out where to input the code.
 
Actually, gear swapping is possible. When we change classes, it's technically gear swapping, though I haven't exactly tested gear-swapping the same class. Just need to try making 2 gear sets for the same class, set to hotbar, and swap.

However, when swapping from low level class to higher level class, HP and MP need to recover. I'm not sure if this happens if you're swapping Lvl 20 conjurer for Lvl 20 conjurer.
 
Teknoman said:
Pfft, everyone told me I needed to swap and make macros for skills to be a good Blue Mage.

I performed pretty nicely without either.
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You probably didn't parse in the top 1%, though, probably closer to 5 or 6%.
Riposte said:
TBH, I rather not have the stat in the game (or see regular use), but it really goes to show you how dull gear is in this game so far.

Also this song won't leave me alone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBtsgGoXia8

It is like the new toto-rak/dungeon (1.0) theme.
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Definitely my favorite ARR song.
dramatis said:
Actually, gear swapping is possible. When we change classes, it's technically gear swapping, though I haven't exactly tested gear-swapping the same class. Just need to try making 2 gear sets for the same class, set to hotbar, and swap.

However, when swapping from low level class to higher level class, HP and MP need to recover. I'm not sure if this happens if you're swapping Lvl 20 conjurer for Lvl 20 conjurer.
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You can't do these things while you have enmity.
 
dramatis said:
Actually, gear swapping is possible. When we change classes, it's technically gear swapping, though I haven't exactly tested gear-swapping the same class. Just need to try making 2 gear sets for the same class, set to hotbar, and swap.

However, when swapping from low level class to higher level class, HP and MP need to recover. I'm not sure if this happens if you're swapping Lvl 20 conjurer for Lvl 20 conjurer.
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something to test out tomorrow!

Xux said:
You can't do these things while you have enmity.
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or not
 
I dunno, I think I liked gear swapping. But generally, I felt (bullshit drop rates aside) FFXI approach to gear was very good. They really felt unique and you really had things to look forward too. You really had reasons to want that particular piece of gear.

As a BLM i liked minmaxing my stats to rest, cast an elemental spell or drain.

Well, except when i had to buy the 7 Elemental Staves or changing Job. (inventory nightmare)
 
I dunno, that's one thing I don't like about FFXI is gear swapping, but I guess it's something to strive for and make the game last longer. I'm fine with having a set of PvP gear and PvE gear.
 
_Keiichi_ said:
I dunno, I think I liked gear swapping. But generally, I felt (bullshit drop rates aside) FFXI approach to gear was very good. They really felt unique and you really had things to look forward too. You really had reasons to want that particular piece of gear.

As a BLM i liked minmaxing my stats to rest, cast an elemental spell or drain.

Well, except when i had to buy the 7 Elemental Staves or changing Job. (inventory nightmare)
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I spent whole days of my life trying to make enough money to buy them all... but when I had them, I was a godsend to my party.
 
omlet said:
Yeah, my MNK gear got shuffled, too. I used the GC tabard on my MNK for the 10 STR/ACC/GC set bonuses because that piece was really great if you didn't have DL. I had the officer's overcoat just because, but it wasn't a good MNK piece in 1.x. I also used the thighhigh officer boots
because they looked hot
for the accuracy since it was more use than the AF boots and there were basically no good melded options for MNK in 1.x.

Now in ARR the tabard is nerfed down to a lower level item (with lower requirement too) so it kinda sucks, the boots are only good for mages, and the overcoat that I bought just for the hell of it in 1.x (during atomos event when it was raining seals) is now the best body piece for MNK that I have.
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Same, I had the tabard who was better than the AF body and now it's a lvl 42(?) itema way worse. Same with the GC lvl 50 weapon, which is now worse than primal weapons.

At least we can sell them back....I think.
 
Fancy Corndog said:
I've been holding out hope for end-game as well, especially since we keep hearing that everything gets better at [insert new goal post distance].

But this part of this clip in particular:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjoh3VEPyLU&t=15m55s

Has made me pretty pessimistic honestly. It all just sounds episodic, like everyone is on the same ride. Instinctively this doesn't feel like what a paid MMO should be to me. To me, a subscription pays for the content in all corners that you stumble upon by virtue of being part of the world - because you can't sell that directly. It feels like they just want to make the same thing everyone else is, but charge a sub for it because it's good money.
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Well that kinda stuff in XI took time. There wasn't much in XI at launch outside the main missions, job/town quests and Conquest. There were arguably TOO many options by the time I stopped playing because a lot of older content just didn't get any attention. I'd rather they take their time and make sure they really think about and develop the additional content they're adding so it doesn't feel so superfluous a couple years later.

With how well the game has shaped up technically after the 1.0 launch mess, I'm willing to give them some time on getting some meaningful variety in the game beyond the main dungeons that everyone will be going through. I have faith that they understand that the Armory System, just like XI's job system, will have players wanting a lot of different ways to continue leveling up other classes/jobs so they don't always feel like a "me too." The unique identity of your character in XI and XIV come from the combination of jobs and skills you have gained over your career, not just one or two so it's important to be able to do it all in your own way.
 
MogCakes said:
Won't get it until 2 days...something something. I know it'll be after Phase 4 though.
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Oh i was just wondering if they come on the Receipt or a card you get when you pre-order it. Cause i know in Canada, they don't put codes on the receipt, that you have to ask for a code which they give you via card form.
 
You can put me in the camp that messed up pretty bad by GC gear changes. I was rolling with the gear set bonus for Maelstorm's polearm, but now even that has skill speed lol. These boots got to go...
 
Relaxed Muscle said:
Same, I had the tabard who was better than the AF body and now it's a lvl 42(?) itema way worse. Same with the GC lvl 50 weapon, which is now worse than primal weapons.

At least we can sell them back....I think.
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GC weapons were a mixed bag in 1.x. LL saber, for example, was more useful than Garuda sword, but for most DD the primal ones were generally better or at least more or less equal depending on how you set up your gear around the weapon. What I find most interesting is how primal weapons in ARR all do the same damage now.

You can sell back GC equipment, yes. For a very small amount of seals. I believe it is like 150 seals back for one of the Lieutenant weapons. Most GC gear re-seal value is double digit; very low. Honestly, it makes perfect sense though because pretty much everyone who played at the end of 1.x had capped seals thanks to Atomos so it would be kinda lame to be able to cash in an entire set of GC weapons for a ton of seals to fund your ARR rankups. I'll be keeping some of mine just for the looks (pirate hooks, ARR!) but probably ditching most of it. I mean, it's not like I worked hard for most of them lol atomos.
 
omlet said:
GC weapons were a mixed bag in 1.x. LL saber, for example, was more useful than Garuda sword, but for most DD the primal ones were generally better or at least more or less equal depending on how you set up your gear around the weapon. What I find most interesting is how primal weapons in ARR all do the same damage now.

You can sell back GC equipment, yes. For a very small amount of seals. I believe it is like 150 seals back for one of the Lieutenant weapons. Most GC gear re-seal value is double digit; very low. Honestly, it makes perfect sense though because pretty much everyone who played at the end of 1.x had capped seals thanks to Atomos so it would be kinda lame to be able to cash in an entire set of GC weapons for a ton of seals to fund your ARR rankups. I'll be keeping some of mine just for the looks (pirate hooks, ARR!) but probably ditching most of it. I mean, it's not like I worked hard for most of them lol atomos.
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I think GC weapons had better DPS than primal weapons except Garuda ones. Stats may depend, but they were a good alternative for primal weapons. Now they are...lol. I think I may kept my Malstrom spear, looks way better than the stupid mog fork :(
 
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