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[KeRaSh]

Its more about the precision. To use it as movement skill and not just placement you need to have exact precision to where you are trying to go, while in a normal jump so you don't lose time when you could be heading in your desired direction, and being able to rotate right back the other way right on landing to continue movement without any stopping or moving back in the wrong direction.

This sounds epicly situational. Not what I would refer to as a dealbreaker...

 

[theSlacker]

What situations do you use this in?

Every time elusive jump is up, and I have some movement requirement. It is the best use of elusive jump. Movement based skills are the best friend of any melee dps, and one that you have direct control over the placement of is even better. A dragoon can use Spinshatter and Dragonfire to advance to a target, but elusive is the only one that can be used with no target, to advance in any direction.

 

[Aeana]

Do you have a scholar on your team?
Originally we had 2 WHM and it was tough to keep the tanks up, once we got a SCH and a WHM things got much easier.

No, we're running two WHMs. I am leveling SCH though for this reason because I think WHM+SCH is a much better team than WHM+WHM in many cases. Being able to choose between the two will be ideal.

 

[pitbull]

Ya I mean. Nothing makes hardcore raiders want to play more than telling them you probably can't beat something yet. Some people have gotten pretty close, and they are all still getting gear upgrades from coil + myth cap.

but closing 1 fight for 1 week due to exploiters isn't going to make anyone quit besides exploiters and people with mental issues.


They could handle it like they did the rmt money and close the whole thing down and take away all loot from everyone that has ever gotten any.

 

[Alucrid]

The reason to hold back DPS is so the split occurs with no stacks. I mean, I guess it's our gear, but if we didn't do that I don't think we could possibly win. It already gets completely insane near the end damage-wise building from zero stacks after the split.

Not bothering with the slimes after the split (and only feeding one before) is how we downed him our very first time. Timing it so that it splits with zero stacks is such a pain since the buff pops a few seconds after he eats the slime and having one stack on each boss isn't a huge deal.

This sounds epicly situational. Not what I would refer to as a dealbreaker...

I find it pretty useful for all the fights in coil.

 

[diablos991]

I mean, I'm still kinda confused as to why the controller is not as precise. I'm not a DRG so I don't know the specifics but is the jump based on your character positioning or the camera positioning?

Gamepad players can do a 180 turn just as easily as anyone else.

The capability exists, it's definitely a player skill or setting problem.
To elusive jump as movement (even though that is a terrible idea in 99.9% of every situation, with the 0.1% being to show off) you just face your back to where you want to go and hit the button.

Works fine on KB+M and Controller with legacy controls.

 

[diablos991]

No, we're running two WHMs. I am leveling SCH though for this reason because I think WHM+SCH is a much better team than WHM+WHM in many cases. Being able to choose between the two will be ideal.

That was our team's big breakthrough for turn 2. It was incredibly hectic with 2 WHM. I would highly suggest you get that thing leveled ASAP, or sub in an existing WHM if you are having troubles there.

It is definitely nice to have the flexibility to choose between dual WHM and WHM +SCH though. I am glad they share a lot of the same gear.

 

[KeRaSh]

Every time elusive jump is up, and I have some movement requirement. It is the best use of elusive jump. Movement based skills are the best friend of any melee dps, and one that you have direct control over the placement of is even better. A dragoon can use Spinshatter and Dragonfire to advance to a target, but elusive is the only one that can be used with no target, to advance in any direction.

I still don't get why exactly you do this. What is the benefit of jumping in a certain direction during a fight? Avoiding AoE? I haven't had any trouble doing that before I got that Jump.

I find it pretty useful for all the fights in coil.

I'm not trolling here. I'm Lv 44 so I wouldn't know about its usefulness in Coils.
Currently I only use it to shed hate, which shouldn't be an issue with a good tank, right?

 

[theSlacker]

The capability exists, it's definitely a player skill or setting problem.
To elusive jump as movement (even though that is a terrible idea in 99.9% of every situation, with the 0.1% being to show off) you just face your back to where you want to go and hit the button.

Works fine on KB+M and Controller with legacy controls.

To face your back to where you want to go with controller, even with legacy controls, you have to commit a step of movement in that direction or be stopped completely. You are correct that using elusive jump in that regard is a bad idea as it wastes part of the speed you are using it for.

 

[MechaX]

Managed to have a good first-time run through AK with a GAF party last night (managed to take out Demon Wall on our first try, but the last boss gave us some problems just due to mistakes in positioning).

It was a cool dungeon, but I don't know about "run it 50 times" cool.

 

[diablos991]

I still don't get why exactly you do this. What is the benefit of jumping in a certain direction during a fight? Avoiding AoE? I haven't had any trouble doing that before I got that Jump.

I'm pretty sure it's just as fast as running. Especially if you take into consideration the time it takes to line up the jump.

Whenever I see a DRG use it to dodge an AOE it's pretty funny as they get hit 90% of the time because they don't understand that the server doesn't realize they moved until the animation is completely finished, they are also farther away from the mob and loose even more DPS for the run back.

It is probably the worst move in the entire DRG kit other than the enimity decrease.

 

[Aeana]

Managed to have a good first-time run through AK with a GAF party last night (managed to take out Demon Wall on our first try, but the last boss gave us some problems just due to mistakes in positioning).

It was a cool dungeon, but I don't know about "run it 50 times" cool.

I was trying to describe what I feel is the best place to position Anantaboga to a friend last night (over IRC, so we had no visual aids). I was looking for a video and I was shocked to find that there aren't any showing the positioning I like. It's so much better than the ones people use that lets the tail swipe affect some part of the room. Next time I go I'll have to take a screenshot.

 

[Baliis]

I don't play a DRG, but Elusive Jump is sounding a lot like disengage on the Hunter in WoW. Being able to do a run, jump, 180 spin, disengage, spin to face the target and cast an instant in the air was insanely powerful. If you needed to be somewhere , it got you there like three times as fast and kept your DPS losses to a minimum. Was also great for gap closing in PvP to land a kill.

 

[diablos991]

I was trying to describe what I feel is the best place to position Anantaboga to a friend last night (over IRC, so we had no visual aids). I was looking for a video and I was shocked to find that there aren't any showing the positioning I like. It's so much better than the ones people use that lets the tail swipe affect some part of the room. Next time I go I'll have to take a screenshot.

When I PUG the dungeon, the position facing the statue always gets somebody breathed right after imminent catastrophe. I guess they don't move fast enough.

Usually less risky -in me experience- to just let him own half the arena. Still lots of room to place the bombs and the mobs will come over to you a bit after they spawn.

 

[Zaptruder]

I mean, I'm still kinda confused as to why the controller is not as precise. I'm not a DRG so I don't know the specifics but is the jump based on your character positioning or the camera positioning?

Gamepad players can do a 180 turn just as easily as anyone else.

In fact, a 180 turn is easier on the gamepad than the keyboard - given that back literally makes your character spin around 180 degrees.

 

[Zaptruder]

I was trying to describe what I feel is the best place to position Anantaboga to a friend last night (over IRC, so we had no visual aids). I was looking for a video and I was shocked to find that there aren't any showing the positioning I like. It's so much better than the ones people use that lets the tail swipe affect some part of the room. Next time I go I'll have to take a screenshot.

What is that position? Describe it if possible?

I've always just taken him to the back right pillar - aggro him, run straight to the back wall, wait for him to come, then run to the back right corner, in the middle of the 3 stones that are on an angle. His tail will point out past the statue, the statue will be there to block imminent catastrophe and everyone is happy.

At least as far as I can tell; I never have my camera pointed out at the arena because of the wall, so I never see what's going on during this boss.

 

[Mairu]

Looks like it'll be another week with no transfers. I can't fucking believe how long it's taking them to get these in considering how locked the servers were in the first few weeks.

 

[MechaX]

I was trying to describe what I feel is the best place to position Anantaboga to a friend last night (over IRC, so we had no visual aids). I was looking for a video and I was shocked to find that there aren't any showing the positioning I like. It's so much better than the ones people use that lets the tail swipe affect some part of the room. Next time I go I'll have to take a screenshot.

If you could get a screenshot the next time you run it, that would be immensely helpful. Our tank positioned it in the top right corner of the room next to the statute at the top right. Since all the DPS in our group were ranged, it worked out at least for the first half of the fight. But the statutes closest to the boss door go pretty quick, and by the time it's under 50% health, we have to use the statute that the boss is literally right next to.

We couldn't reliably attack the side of the boss because the statute was obstructing our line of sight. If we tried to walk behind the boss, we would probably get tail-swiped. And walking in front of the boss would lead us to get killed by the boss's front aoes. And it gets even worse when someone gets tethered and there is no real safe way to get the orb far enough away without getting hit by the boss.

 

[theSlacker]

I still don't get why exactly you do this. What is the benefit of jumping in a certain direction during a fight? Avoiding AoE? I haven't had any trouble doing that before I got that Jump.

I don't really understand where you are coming from and I must be mistaking about your question. Moment and positioning are the key parts of melee dps, and anything that can and does help with that and help up time on your target is a good thing.

I'm pretty sure it's just as fast as running. Especially if you take into consideration the time it takes to line up the jump.

Whenever I see a DRG use it to dodge an AOE it's pretty funny as they get hit 90% of the time because they don't understand that the server doesn't realize they moved until the animation is completely finished, they are also farther away from the mob and loose even more DPS for the run back.

It is probably the worst move in the entire DRG kit other than the enimity decrease.

My entire point is exactly what you are saying in your second sentence. There is no added time lost or potential movement lost lining it up with a mouse and keyboard.

As for your last sentence, I would take it over the normal "Jump" attack any day of the week.

I don't play a DRG, but Elusive Jump is sounding a lot like disengage on the Hunter in WoW. Being able to do a run, jump, 180 spin, disengage, spin to face the target and cast an instant in the air was insanely powerful. If you needed to be somewhere , it got you there like three times as fast and kept your DPS losses to a minimum. Was also great for gap closing in PvP to land a kill.

It is exactly that.

In fact, a 180 turn is easier on the gamepad than the keyboard - given that back literally makes your character spin around 180 degrees.

Answered with:

To face your back to where you want to go with controller, even with legacy controls, you have to commit a step of movement in that direction or be stopped completely. You are correct that using elusive jump in that regard is a bad idea as it wastes part of the speed you are using it for.

 

[diablos991]

What is that position? Describe it if possible?

I've always just taken him to the back right pillar - aggro him, run straight to the back wall, wait for him to come, then run to the back right corner, in the middle of the 3 stones that are on an angle. His tail will point out past the statue, the statue will be there to block imminent catastrophe and everyone is happy.

At least as far as I can tell; I never have my camera pointed out at the arena because of the wall, so I never see what's going on during this boss.

That's the position I like the most. Super low risk and, as a melee DPS, I trigger the tail swipe many times to remind the ranged folk where the cutoff line is.

 

[Hubb]

having one stack on each boss isn't a huge deal.

Only because you don't heal.

 

[SuperLurker]

Not bothering with the slimes after the split (and only feeding one before) is how we downed him our very first time. Timing it so that it splits with zero stacks is such a pain since the buff pops a few seconds after he eats the slime and having one stack on each boss isn't a huge deal.



I find it pretty useful for all the fights in coil.

We pretty much had to time it to split with 0 stacks since I was tanking the split in militia gear.

 

[Baliis]

It is exactly that.

I couldn't imagine doing that with a controller. Having to actually take a step in the opposite direction would completely kill your momentum and cut down on the actual distance you can get.

 

[theSlacker]

I was trying to describe what I feel is the best place to position Anantaboga to a friend last night (over IRC, so we had no visual aids). I was looking for a video and I was shocked to find that there aren't any showing the positioning I like. It's so much better than the ones people use that lets the tail swipe affect some part of the room. Next time I go I'll have to take a screenshot.

There are two ways I've taught tanks to do it, and both are easily explainable. One that I think you are failure with is having the tank back up against that little piece of broken wall on the outside edge. You can go and stand there without agroing the boss to show them. Pull the boss directly to that, wait for it to get to you, then run directly though the boss just a little past the statue. Makes it so the tail is in the wall, and gives a nice cubby for dps on the other side. Also got to remind him to not freak out if the boss full stops for a tail swipe during the turn, it may happen, but doesn't really mater.

The other way, that seems easier now, is just having the tank run right to the boss from the entrance, while throwing shit at him, all the way to the back wall. Wait till the boss catches up as he might tail swipe when he turns, and then running to the corner. It is easy because if done properly, the tank will not have to move at all ever, and the dps and healers can all just hang out behind that last statue for the full fight as well. Other then to kill adds and when they get the bomb of course. The only trouble it causes is that the tail will be facing in the direction of the first add statue, but really that isn't much of a problem.

 

[Aeana]

What is that position? Describe it if possible?

I've always just taken him to the back right pillar - aggro him, run straight to the back wall, wait for him to come, then run to the back right corner, in the middle of the 3 stones that are on an angle. His tail will point out past the statue, the statue will be there to block imminent catastrophe and everyone is happy.

At least as far as I can tell; I never have my camera pointed out at the arena because of the wall, so I never see what's going on during this boss.

I can try using this image I edited.

On the right side of the screen there, there's a pile of rubble (marked 1). If you walk up to it and then look directly at the boss, you'll see that there is a statue to your right. Pull the boss to that rubble (wait for him to get to you), then walk through him -- erring just a tad to his left so that his face turns facing east rather than west so he won't accidentally tail swipe the rest of the group -- until you're a bit past the statue, then make a 180 degree turn so you're facing the rubble you started at. This way he is facing the room and his tail is facing the wall. His tail swipe is effectively neutralized, and your tank has only a very short run behind the pillar when the AoE comes. Since the boss does not move while casting, this is not any sort of risk, and as long as they return to position right after the AoE fires, the boss will never move.

If it's still not clear, I'll take an actual screenshot later. I've done this boss a ton of different ways and this is by far my favorite.

 

[Alucrid]

I still don't get why exactly you do this. What is the benefit of jumping in a certain direction during a fight? Avoiding AoE? I haven't had any trouble doing that before I got that Jump.



I'm not trolling here. I'm Lv 44 so I wouldn't know about its usefulness in Coils.
Currently I only use it to shed hate, which shouldn't be an issue with a good tank, right?

So in the first fight of coil there's two mobs and mid way through the fight we switch from one to the other. With elusive jump I just point away from the direction the boss is in, use elusive jump land there. I don't have to target them with jumps, I don't have the recovery time of them either, so even if I land in one of his cone attacks I can move away asap.

Only because you don't heal.

That just shows my complete confidence in our healers!

What is that position? Describe it if possible?

I've always just taken him to the back right pillar - aggro him, run straight to the back wall, wait for him to come, then run to the back right corner, in the middle of the 3 stones that are on an angle. His tail will point out past the statue, the statue will be there to block imminent catastrophe and everyone is happy.

At least as far as I can tell; I never have my camera pointed out at the arena because of the wall, so I never see what's going on during this boss.

yep, our tank doesn't even have to move in that position, we let our healer tank the first add and kill off the boss before the second catastrophe even starts

 

[diablos991]

So in the first fight of coil there's two mobs and mid way through the fight we switch from one to the other. With elusive jump I just point away from the direction the boss is in, use elusive jump land there. I don't have to target them with jumps, I don't have the recovery time of them either, so even if I land in one of his cone attacks I can move away asap.



That just shows my complete confidence in our healers!

You have to target the boss one way or another. You are either targeting him after you jump or before. Just use spine-shatter or the AOE one and you will be fine.

It won't look as flashy though I guess.

 

[KeRaSh]

I don't really understand where you are coming from and I must be mistaking about your question. Moment and positioning are the key parts of melee dps, and anything that can and does help with that and help up time on your target is a good thing.

So it's a positional thing? From my current understanding as a DRG you either want to be behind or next to the mob, which effectively is the distance of a few sidesteps that you can perform while you wait for the GCD anyways between two abilities so your way of inserting a Jump with a longer animation than the time it takes me to sidestep confuses me greatly.

Again, not trying to troll. I'm simply not getting it.

Edit:

So in the first fight of coil there's two mobs and mid way through the fight we switch from one to the other. With elusive jump I just point away from the direction the boss is in, use elusive jump land there. I don't have to target them with jumps, I don't have the recovery time of them either, so even if I land in one of his cone attacks I can move away

Oh, so it could be used to quickly travel between a boss and let's say... adds that are a little further away. That I understand but since the range is only 15y and Spineshatter Dive is 20y I believe, it would just make more sense to use that?

 

[diablos991]

yep, our tank doesn't even have to move in that position, we let our healer tank the first add and kill off the boss before the second catastrophe even starts

There is no need to dodge catastrophe at all if you are in your coil group.
Just tank the first one and DPS before the second one hits.

Manmode the boss in the middle of the room.

So it's a positional thing? From my current understanding as a DRG you either want to be behind or next to the mob, which effectively is the distance of a few sidesteps that you can perform while you wait for the GCD anyways between two abilities so your way of inserting a Jump with a longer animation than the time it takes me to sidestep confuses me greatly.

Again, not trying to troll. I'm simply not getting it.

It is a position thing in the sense that coil turn #4 timing is so damned tight that you can't afford to just run over to the boss as a melee DPS. Those seconds will likely cause your group to wipe. (basically jumping is faster than running across the room from mobs to boss)

 

[Aeana]

There is no need to dodge catastrophe at all if you are in your coil group.
Just tank the first one and DPS before the second one hits.

Manmode the boss in the middle of the room.

Things are dramatically different if everybody in your group is geared.
I personally rarely end up doing AK with everybody in Coil-ready gear.

 

[Baliis]

So it's a positional thing? From my current understanding as a DRG you either want to be behind or next to the mob, which effectively is the distance of a few sidesteps that you can perform while you wait for the GCD anyways between two abilities so your way of inserting a Jump with a longer animation than the time it takes me to sidestep confuses me greatly.

Again, not trying to troll. I'm simply not getting it.

It's not necessarily about being on the boss. What if you need to be on the opposite side of the room, or get across a patch of fire on the ground? There's more to boss fights than just being on the boss, sometimes it's about being in the right spot and using tricks like that will get you there faster.

 

[KeRaSh]

There is no need to dodge catastrophe at all if you are in your coil group.
Just tank the first one and DPS before the second one hits.

Manmode the boss in the middle of the room.



It is a position thing in the sense that coil turn #4 timing is so damned tight that you can't afford to just run over to the boss as a melee DPS. Those seconds will likely cause your group to wipe. (basically jumping is faster than running across the room from mobs to boss)

OK, but what about the fact that SSD has a range of 20y while EJ is just 15y?
I don't know how the animations compare time wise but it sounds like SSD is still more effective to move towards the boss while also dealing damage.

Edit:

It's not necessarily about being on the boss. What if you need to be on the opposite side of the room, or get across a patch of fire on the ground? There's more to boss fights than just being on the boss, sometimes it's about being in the right spot and using tricks like that will get you there faster.

Makes sense. I still don't see how this could be a complete deal breaker for controllers, though.
If people can apply it to maximize their potential then more power to them. I guess I'm too casual for such things.

 

[diablos991]

OK, but what about the fact that SSD has a range of 20y while EJ is just 15y?
I don't know how the animations compare time wise but it sounds like SSD is still more effective to move towards the boss while also dealing damage.

I agree. I'm of the opinion that elusive jump is just a flashy tool that happens to move a person around.

SSD is what I use in coil and it hasn't failed me yet.

 

[theSlacker]

OK, but what about the fact that SSD has a range of 20y while EJ is just 15y?
I don't know how the animations compare time wise but it sounds like SSD is still more effective to move towards the boss while also dealing damage.

Both skills have cooldowns and both skills should be used. It's like saying that a dragoon shouldn't be bummed out that they don't get Raging Strikes since they get Blood for Blood.

Also as I have pointed out several times, elusive goes beyond that singular use of "to target", and is "to anywhere".

 

[studyguy]

Coil 5 down for the week?
Fine SE, I wasn't going to beat it anyway ;-;

 

[Baliis]

Makes sense. I still don't see how this could be a complete deal breaker for controllers, though.
If people can apply it to maximize their potential then more power to them. I guess I'm too casual for such things.

I mean, it's not usually something that will make or break a fight, it's just one of those little things that can mean the difference between a 1% wipe, or putting out enough extra DPS to kill it. The number of 1-2% enrage wipes on a DPS tight boss I've seen in WoW is huge, especially on the harder Heroics. Wiping at 1% to a fight like Heroic Ragnaros after 20 minutes, or whatever his timer was, sucked a lot.

For most people though, you're probably right, it's just a flashy trick to use from time to time.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Looks like it'll be another week with no transfers. I can't fucking believe how long it's taking them to get these in considering how locked the servers were in the first few weeks.

Really? *sigh*

 

[Sir Griffith]

This is how I've been positioning Ana for a while, and it's been working out pretty good. Depending on long range or short range DPS, their positioning varies obviously.

 

[pitbull]

This is how I've been positioning Ana for a while, and it's been working out pretty good. Depending on long range or short range DPS, their positioning varies obviously.

oh man.... dat paint

 

[Mairu]

Really? *sigh*

Considering they haven't said anything yet I just assume it's getting pushed back.

 

[theSlacker]

This is how I've been positioning Ana for a while, and it's been working out pretty good. Depending on long range or short range DPS, their positioning varies obviously.

Seems like it would be more of a hassle to get him into place like that, instead of basically the same thing but with his tail facing to the right.

 

[Aeana]

Seems like it would be more of a hassle to get him into place like that, instead of basically the same thing but with his tail facing to the right.

Plus when his tail is facing right, the ranged can be at the bottom-right statue and use that until after two catastrophes (before it turns into an add).

 

[Spehornoob]

Picked this up last week and got sometime to play it finally. Got a level 17 Gladiator (with Conjurer at level 5 and Marauder at level 7). Really enjoying the leveling experience for your main class so far. It's a lot of fun. Tanked my first instance the other day. Did alright, lost aggro once or twice to an archer, but no one died.

Kinda wish instances and Guildhests offered more EXP, but other than that, having a blast.

 

[RK9039]

I just tank the last boss in AK on the last statue, but turned so that his tail is facing the left hand side corner so no one gets hit by anything.

Seems to work.

 

[Torquill]

Elusive jump is also good for removing any debuff with a Heavy component.

 

[theSlacker]

Plus when his tail is facing right, the ranged can be at the bottom-right statue and use that until after two catastrophes (before it turns into an add).

Well this is a problem that seems to happen when I use or teach what I think is the easier way now. Range and healers are too stuck thinking they need to stay back by that entrance statue, when they could effectively just come and hug the boss and be safe from catastrophe, while still having los on everyone.

Of course from his picture I don't see why healers cant stay down there as well. Its mostly for the comer method where the tank is all the way to the back corner that they can't heal him from behind that first statue.

 

[diablos991]

Well this is a problem that seems to happen when I use or teach what I think is the easier way now. Range and healers are too stuck thinking they need to stay back by that entrance statue, when they could effectively just come and hug the boss and be safe from catastrophe, while still having los on everyone.

Of course from his picture I don't see why healers cant stay down there as well. Its mostly for the comer method where the tank is all the way to the back corner that they can't heal him from behind that first statue.

Ranged always seem to have that issue. They don't realize that being next to the boss is perfectly safe in most situations. They just don't want to go near the thing.

Elusive jump is also good for removing any debuff with a Heavy component.

I always forget about that functionality and rage like crazy when I get a slow put on .me.

 

[Aeana]

Well this is a problem that seems to happen when I use or teach what I think is the easier way now. Range and healers are too stuck thinking they need to stay back by that entrance statue, when they could effectively just come and hug the boss and be safe from catastrophe, while still having los on everyone.

Of course from his picture I don't see why healers cant stay down there as well. Its mostly for the comer method where the tank is all the way to the back corner that they can't heal him from behind that first statue.

A healer can't ever stay in any one place in that fight. The statues create LoS issues no matter where you are at one point or another, when people go out to get adds, or whatever. People just need to be adaptable.
And healers generally need to be further away from the boss on average than anybody else simply because people go out to take out the adds or drop bombs, and people will inevitably get out of range if the healer is sitting near the boss all the time.

 

[Torquill]

People just need to be adaptable.

This is a primary skill metric. Some MMO-players just can't move past rote execution of a plan. They can clear content, but only after a well vetted community solution has formed, and only of nothing goes wrong.

 

[diablos991]

This is a primary skill metric. Some MMO-players just can't move past rote execution of a plan. They can clear content, but only after a well vetted community solution has formed, and only of nothing goes wrong.

Welcome to Titan. Next stop B-coil!