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[Kintaro]

I don't know, maybe you might want to test the game so you can give SE feed back to improve the quality of said game. Instead of crying that the game sucks while never saying anything on the testing forums, because SE should have the tech to read players (testers) minds.

See, you want people to post on the feedback forums, but then people bitch about the type of feedback given (shown earlier in this thread). I've given my feedback on their forums and it matches what a lot of other people are saying.

You didn't know? Nerds just wanna have fun! Ooooh Nerds! They wanna have, FUN!

They don't wanna think anymore! that is so 2003.

This type of bullshit though? Straight up fanboyish. If you want FFXI-2, be my guest. People should be demanding better. You can have a smart MMO and not make shit overly convoluted because the developers can't grasp the concept of "easy to pick up, hard to master."

 

[Burli]

Any chance someone can host today's patch/es? My client just times out constantly :/

 

[Zalasta]

I can only hope there will be a near final update then for the open beta or close before release, as there is nothing in the world that could get me to play the crap they have been pulling out so far =/.

That's your prerogative. However, I doubt SE wants to lose customers if you really think this is what we'll be getting at retail, and the fact is I don't believe it's as bad as some of you made it out to be. A lot of the complaints can be distilled down to unwarranted expectations and the fact that people have been conditioned to want their MMO to play a certain way.

 

[hitsugi]

Holy shit you're something special.

it's called wanting to keep their special game for "elite" people that have 13 hrs a day to actually get something back from it.

...and FFXI really did take serious dedication for a long, long time. As soon as something came out that people could enjoy without a minimal 3 hour investment of time per play (WoW), the ship began sinking.

Hopefully, SE has learned some lessons in the last 5-6 years, but we'll see.

 

[gillty]

I don't know, maybe you might want to test the game so you can give SE feed back to improve the quality of said game. Instead of crying that the game sucks while never saying anything on the testing forums, because SE should have the tech to read players (testers) minds.

gtfo, its not wrong to criticize a games gameplay this close to release, not everyone has to love the game.

There is a clear difference between easy mode(WoW) and intuitive.

 

[Londa]

Holy shit you're something special.

Because my likes are different than yours? That's fine with me.

 

[desu]

I don't know, maybe you might want to test the game so you can give SE feed back to improve the quality of said game. Instead of crying that the game sucks while never saying anything on the testing forums, because SE should have the tech to read players (testers) minds.

I don't know, maybe you might want to get off SE's cock so we get less fanboyish comments from you?

What do you know about my beta forum posting habits? Oh right nothing! But apparently you can read minds, maybe you should tell SE so that they can hire you as fulltime promoter and mind reader.

That's your prerogative. However, I doubt SE wants to lose customers if you really think this is what we'll be getting at retail, and the fact is I don't believe it's as bad as some of you made it out to be. A lot of the complaints can be distilled down to unwarranted expectations and the fact that people have been conditioned to want their MMO to play a certain way.

Uhm thats the exact reason I pointed out that I want a near final version of what we gonna get at some point in this beta...

Uhm well, I guess as a PC player its just too much from me to expect decent controls (yes they have improved...), decent user inteface, performance and so on ...

 

[Londa]

gtfo, its not wrong to criticize a games gameplay this close to release, not everyone has to love the game.

There is a clear difference between easy mode(WoW) and intuitive.

Then test the game and give feedback. Don't say: "I won't test it because its not fun!"

 

[Londa]

maybe you might want to get off SE's cock so we get less fanboyish comments from you?

Just because I don't want the game to be like all the other MMO's, I'm a FFXI fanboy.

Let's ignore half the people here trying to get features that are in WoW into FFXIV. They can't be fanboys.

Uhm well, I guess as a PC player its just too much from me to expect decent controls (yes they have improved...), decent user inteface, performance and so on ...

For some reason people can't get the clue that this is a beta test.

 

[Zalasta]

Uhm thats the exact reason I pointed out that I want a near final version of what we gonna get at some point in this beta...

Uhm well, I guess as a PC player its just too much from me to expect decent controls (yes they have improved...), decent user inteface, performance and so on ...

Well, my comments on the complaints weren't directed to you, but you have to admit that the things you've listed are more of a personal preference. There have been just as many people that are fine with how they are. So...who's right? Like I said, everyone wants it to play a certain way that fits them...

 

[desu]

For some reason people can't get the clue that this is a beta test.

Yeah now I get it, suddenly in the last month before the game is going into pressing they gonna archive things they apparently didnt in 5 years of development and several months of beta testing.

Sorry I take everything back, the game will be a blast in a month, sorry to SE.

 

[gillty]

Well, my comments on the complaints weren't directed to you, but you have to admit that the things you've listed are more of a personal preference. There have been just as many people that are fine with how they are. So...who's right? Like I said, everyone wants it to play a certain way that fits them...

I think giving players the choice is the right way of doing things.

anyways I enjoy the game so I'll be picking up, londa just need to stop drinking the SEkoolaid

 

[desu]

Well, my comments on the complaints weren't directed to you, but you have to admit that the things you've listed are more of a personal preference. There have been just as many people that are fine with how they are. So...who's right? Like I said, everyone wants it to play a certain way that fits them...

I would agree about controls, but like you said SE doesnt want to loose costumers, so why not make this game more approachable for a crowd that hasnt spend years playing XI? Also I am playing on PC so I expect decent keyboard/mouse controls, I think people would go on the barricades and complain as well if the controller input for the console version would be horrible...

Performance? Its a fact(for me) that the performance isnt all that great, no its not terribad but its not great either. At least I am constantly wondering why my pc has to work so hard for what I am seeing on the screen.

 

[Khrno]

Player-friendly != Easy mode.

SE shouldn't be making the same mistakes it did with FFXI.

SE aren't making the same mistakes now. And XIV is far from being player-unfriendly. There are tutorials for everything (fighting, crafting, gathering) even the first 2 missions or class quests as they are called, are basically an explanation of what's what in town, you can access the help files anytime, the leves tell you the direction and the placement of the objectives.

We can't really give the last word about amount of leve quests and rewards since we don't know if it'll remain the same for retail, but even for people that don't have many time to play a day, the way it is know is rather better for them, than for someone that can play 18 hours a day.

I think it is a very player-friendly game without going into the easy-mode of WoW or Aion.

Although seeing someone claim Aion is very easy mode makes me want to rage, I won't.

Come on, do it. What's not easy-mode about Aion? I played it during 4 months, 2 during the beta and 2 after launch. I couldn't stand how everything was given out in that game. Unless you mean that the ganking up in the Abyss makes the game hard, well no, it doesn't, it makes it annoying.

For some reason people can't get the clue that this is a beta test.

Don't remind them. They might actually get those preorders up again.

 

[Shouta]

Just because I don't want the game to be like all the other MMO's, I'm a FFXI fanboy.

Let's ignore half the people here trying to get features that are in WoW into FFXIV. They can't be fanboys.

Oh, I don't know, could it be the fact those features reduce tedium and frustration?

Again, making it more playable does not take away from it being a SE game.

 

[Londa]

So if I listed all the things in WoW that should be in FFXIV, I'm not a fanboy in you guys eyes. But because I ask for a challenge, not hand holding, I love SE cock? Wow...


I have work, plus school, and even I don't want to be bottle feed tutorials and arrows leading me to the level cap.

 

[Shouta]

So if I listed all the things in WoW that should be in FFXIV, I won't be concided a fanboy. But because I ask for a challenge, not hand holding, I love SE cock? Wow...

Because the "challenge" you're talking about is artificial and moronic. Adjusting things to make more sense, or reduce the frustration does not reduce challenge, it reduces the damn headache. That's why you're getting called out. I mean really, where the hell is the challenge in finding a party by whispering every person every time you want to party up? There is none, it's pure pain in the ass.

 

[Munba]

I must say that the game had some great changes in few weeks, so i can assume they could fix many things in these 4 weeks before the release. And after that of course, like every mmorpg. Btw, also with all the numerous bad things to fix, i'm enjoyng it overall (a bit addicted to fishing already lol also if i made a feedback to make it more active, like in 11).

In any case, i prefer this crafting (long and maybe a bit tedious but i like its "realistic" part) rather than click a button and go to take a nap.

 

[Gromph]

For every crafter

http://awk.cenobyte.org/ffxiv/FF14Crafting.xls

 

[Munba]

Wow thanks Gromph, also the new profession recipes in there.

 

[Londa]

Because the "challenge" you're talking about is artificial and moronic. Adjusting things to make more sense, or reduce the frustration does not reduce challenge, it reduces the damn headache. That's why you're getting called out. I mean really, where the hell is the challenge in finding a party by whispering every person every time you want to party up? There is none, it's pure pain in the ass.

I don't see how that feature is terrible or even a challenge. But ok.

Features I liked is gameplay that required you to think. Like figuring out how to get your artifacts on your own without catching aggro. I don't know, it made it feel like I accomplished something when I made it out alive. To me, that isn't moronic.


To everyone: In all seriousness, are we going to try to kill a Nix/ Goobue on Sat?

 

[Jinko]

A few Armourer recipes

Rank 1 Copper Plate
Copper Ingot x 1

Rank 5 Bronze Chainmail
Hempen Tabard x 1
Bronze Chainmail Vest x 1
Bronze Chain Sleeve x 1
Bronze Rings x 1
Taupe Sheep Leather x 1

Rank 5 Bronze Chain Coif
Bronze Chain x 1
Sheep Leather Strap x 1
Brass Buckle x 1

Rank 5 Copper Barbut
Copper Plate x 1
Copper Rivet x 1
Sheep Leather x 1
Bronze Plate x 1

Rank ?? Copper Rings
Copper Wire x 1

Rank 10 Brass Wire
Brass Ingot x 2

Guessing.. Brass Rings
Brass Wire x 1

 

[Kintaro]

So if I listed all the things in WoW that should be in FFXIV, I'm not a fanboy in you guys eyes. But because I ask for a challenge, not hand holding, I love SE cock? Wow...

I have work, plus school, and even I don't want to be bottle feed tutorials and arrows leading me to the level cap.

If over-tedious, esoteric vague game design is your idea of "challenge" then so be it. But keep on overgeneralizing other MMOs to shoehorn your point. Having to go online to get a list of recipes I can craft for my skill level is not a challenge. It's archaic. Instead, about about the player automatically learns the list in a recipe book that updated every time you gain a rank? Then the challenge is mastering the goofy crafting system along with gathering the materials? It takes a stupid step out of the way, making it simpler, yet the "challenge" remains.

How about a simple system where the game remembers your last complete set of skill points for a given weapon? That way, you don't need to stop, assign skills to your bar every time you want to switch from, say... miner to marauder?

How about a guild leves system where you can pick up the same leves at that specific camp...instead of running back to Limsa to pick them back up once again? Or something basic such as not causing leves to fail if you lag out or crash? That part of the challenge? Or, maybe having leves that do drop equipment...drop the right kind of equipment for the class you're doing the leve on? Too easy mode?

How about tutorials that accurately describes each process of the crafting process? Or, better yet, show you via a cutscene or even a video (like in Aion...wait, that was "easy mode").

How about responsive controls? Is that part of the "challenge?"

I can go on and on...

 

[LowParry]

In any case, i prefer this crafting (long and maybe a bit tedious but i like its "realistic" part) rather than click a button and go to take a nap.

I don't mind it. It's a decent pace. It's getting your items together that takes the longest time through the menus. It's a bit of a pain.

 

[Londa]

Kintaro, those features aren't even hard to add in the game.

I think I would rage if I saw a video tutorial pop up in the game.

Grumph: Thanks for the list.

 

[Khrno]

Craft list = good design.

Craft All button= player-friendly...wait, that was "hardcore mode" was it?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

That's your prerogative. However, I doubt SE wants to lose customers if you really think this is what we'll be getting at retail, and the fact is I don't believe it's as bad as some of you made it out to be. A lot of the complaints can be distilled down to unwarranted expectations and the fact that people have been conditioned to want their MMO to play a certain way.

Nah, this game is in rough shape currently, the only ones who think it's acceptable are wearing special brand final fantasy fanboy blinkers. If it didn't have the name and visuals then no one would look at this game twice.

But because I ask for a challenge, not hand holding, I love SE cock? Wow...

The only challenge to be found in this game is fighting the god awful controls and UI.

 

[Kintaro]

Kintaro, those features aren't even hard to add in the game.

I think I would rage if I saw a video tutorial pop up in the game.

You're right. They aren't hard. So why aren't they there already? It's basic shit.

You would rage, while thousands of others would appreciate the video tutorial.

 

[Salaadin]

Personally, I feel like its far too late for them to miraculously fix a lot of the issues we have but I still dont think that should stop us from playing it, testing it, and reporting to SE. The feedback will help even if it doesnt fix problems for launch, they can still patch it after.

I dont have a huge issue with the game anymore. It just feels good to me in this recent phase. I enjoy combat and mining. I havent tried a craft yet. Seriously, if they fix the menu speeds (it is under the known issues), Id gladly play this and grind my ass off. I guess Im part of the problem but I guess I just enjoy it.

Really, the only thing i want them to address right away is the communication and partying aspects. I know theres more of a solo focus but I really was hoping to see parties of people doing stuff in this game and being a part of some myself. Right now, all I see are people soloing. Its kinda sad when youre surrounded by 30 people and no one is saying a word when in FFXI, you couldnt get people to shut up.


ANyways, I added gromphs craft list (thanks btw Gromph, Always amazing) to google docs for myself since I dont play windowed, I can bring it up on my laptop:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ar5mJHxtjN9sdC10R0xyVTA5bFpneUdOSjh3azlCX0E&hl=en

It cant be edited but it can be viewed. If anyone wants me to add to it or fix something, PM me. Ill try to keep it current.

 

[Munba]

I don't mind it. It's a decent pace. It's getting your items together that takes the longest time through the menus. It's a bit of a pain.

True. Hope in a sort of fix about menu navigation.

 

[Mister Zimbu]

I do like how they're saying this game is "hardcore" and difficult, while games like WoW are too easy.

The actual mechanics that are supposed to be challenging, the combat, are actually even more dumbed-down than WoW's are :lol.

The only challenges in this game are archaic shit like having to discover your own recipes, dealing with the shitty targeting system, and running 6 miles back to town to get your MP back.

WoW nailed the difficulty level perfectly for its initial release and TBC - you could log on for 20 minutes during your break and actually progress (minimum login time to find a group and progress in FF11? Between 4 and 72 hours, depending if you're a BRD or DRG), while having suitable challenges in its instances, and pretty difficult raid encounters. Lich King toned down the difficulty on the initial raids and instances more than I'd like, but the heroic raid encounters more than make up for that, and are by no means "easy".

All in all, WoW is a game where you progress your character playing 8 hours a week, but progress him even more if you play 40. FFXI was 80 hours a week, 70 of which are spent sitting alone in Jueno with your LFG flag up, playing your handheld of choice.

 

[LowParry]

I don't get this weaver quest. It says I got the materials but I don't know where they are? I'm fucking confused.

 

[Jinko]

I don't get this weaver quest. It says I got the materials but I don't know where they are? I'm fucking confused.

Select requested item in the crafting window and then select the leve you are trying to comeplete, then select recipe..... THEN select continue ... THEN SELECT SOMETHING ELSE.. and so on.

 

[LowParry]

Select requested item in the crafting window and then select the leve you are trying to comeplete, then select recipe..... THEN select continue ... THEN SELECT SOMETHING ELSE.. and so on.

Well I'll be damned. :lol I didn't see that tab at the top.

 

[notworksafe]

I do like how they're saying this game is "hardcore" and difficult, while games like WoW are too easy.

The actual mechanics that are supposed to be challenging, the combat, are actually even more dumbed-down than WoW's are :lol.

The only challenges in this game are archaic shit like having to discover your own recipes, dealing with the shitty targeting system, and running 6 miles back to town to get your MP back.

The SQE fan's idea of a challenge is quite distorted from playing hours of FFXI. Dodging client crashes because the 2010 PC game can't handle an alt tab while you look up recipes online because Square can't be fucked at add a recipe book and having everyone die because the targeting is garbage is a "challenge". Being able to group easily is for "WoW noobs". Get it right. And yes, the "advanced combat" isn't too impressive either.

 

[hitsugi]

The SQE fan's idea of a challenge is quite distorted from playing hours of FFXI. Being able to group easily is for "WoW noobs". Get it right.

Sorry, I'm used to having the challenge of spending 30+ mins to put together a competent party (forget about seeking) that has access to the areas which provide good EXP combined with the crushingly difficult 30 min trek just to get to my XP spot.

Also, on my days off I find it thrilling to press tab for hours until I see a unique name pop up, then I hit enter and pray that my connection beats out everyone else. It's fun and involves a lot more skill than other MMOs that I've played, ok?

 

[Londa]

If I ever have to look for something online I just close the game window.

 

[Mister Zimbu]

If I ever have to look for something online I just close the game window.

Funny, if I need to find a gem in WoW, I just alt tab.

You know, that thing that every other PC game developer had figured out in 1998.

 

[Alex]

Such a huge piece of the challenge in XI and likely XIV was/is likely going to be fighting against awkward mechanics and design rather than legitimate tight tuning. That's whats making me a bit sad.

This is the primary thing people wanted to be fixed up. XI had some great potential hidden in a lot of it's mechanics and world design, but it was really bogged down in it's 90s conventions. It's 2010, expecting better is not a bad thing.

Also, none of us have any experience beyond the very basic of leveling game in XIV. If the (especially early) leveling game is your basis for difficulty or thought process in an MMO, you don't know what you're talking about, period and have likely never partaken in any actual fine tuning of mechanics and values.

XI gets such false praise for having some tough-ass leveling game, it most certainly did not, even back in the stone ages of the title. The main hump was cobbling together a party within the awkward confines and restrictions of the game and the community. If you hit gold and got the proper party configuration quickly and managed to, in some form of miracle, get into a good AND empty zone, you could chain like mad.

Now the vagueness doesn't bother me. Personally I like the world being a bit of a mystery and I like a bit of punishment for sticking my nose where it didn't belong, but that doesn't excuse omitting modern tuning for clunk and timesinks. The genre has made big strives in moving away from second-job styled games, even at high level play.

I think XIV has a great deal of potential, but it's distressing that it's going to be so clunky at launch. No one expects perfection from a launch MMO, but I think everyone can agree this needed at least the extra six months in the oven and more communication with the beta players and development. The genre has moved past Everquest, Square needs to realize that.

 

[notworksafe]

Funny, if I need to find a gem in WoW, I just alt tab.

You know, that thing that every other PC game developer had figured out in 1998.

Or use AtlasLoot. OMG having access to information while IN A GAME.

It's for noobs.

Now the vagueness doesn't bother me. Personally I like the world being a bit of a mystery and I like a bit of punishment for sticking my nose where it didn't belong, but that doesn't excuse omitting modern tuning for clunk and timesinks. The genre has made big strives in moving away from second-job styled games, even at high level play.

This. I don't mind exploring and a little bit of punishment sometimes for poking around and checking things out. But the problems that are in the game now are just mechanics that are half finished. That isn't a challenge, it's bad design.

 

[Khrno]

So what's with all the Alt+Tab shit? It worked perfectly on windowed mode, doesn't it now or what?

 

[Alex]

I don't actually mind the omission of addons. Don't get me wrong, I like addons, but I also get hung up on them and spend too much time tweaking and tuning. :lol If the basic UI has no really big caveats, I'm fine. No tabbing is still worthy of a disgusted and puzzled expression.

 

[notworksafe]

I don't actually mind the omission of addons. Don't get me wrong, I like addons, but I also get hung up on them and spend too much time tweaking and tuning. :lol If the basic UI has no really big caveats, I'm fine. No tabbing is still worthy of a disgusted and puzzled expression.

Hey if the addon adds a recipe book, I'm all for it. I think addons are good for when the company doesn't put needed info/features in the game itself (like using Omen for aggro meters, or a bag mod to have many bags appear as one bag). That and being able to rearrange the UI to my liking (but I like how WAR does that much better).

 

[Mister Zimbu]

So what's with all the Alt+Tab shit? It worked perfectly on windowed mode, doesn't it now or what?

The game crashes in full screen mode if you alt+tab / hit the windows key / click on your second monitor.

 

[Salaadin]

So what's with all the Alt+Tab shit? It worked perfectly on windowed mode, doesn't it now or what?

It doesnt work at all in Full Screen. Alt Tab gets you a "cant find directx!! OH NO!!" error and the game dies. It was actually handy the other day when the servers were shitty and I didnt feel like waiting for them to time out. Maybe thats why they did it?

 

[Khrno]

Oh but it DOES still work on windowed mode, ok.

 

[LowParry]

I feel like I'm going to be gathering and crafting more than leveling in this game. But you get exp from it at least. Just need to find the gathering tools, test that out and I think I'm set with what I have in mind come retail.

 

[notworksafe]

Oh but it DOES still work on windowed mode, ok.

Yeah it does, but I have been playing fullscreen for better performance. Having to choose between better performance or the game crashing every time I need to look up a recipe is annoying.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

It doesnt work at all in Full Screen. Alt Tab gets you a "cant find directx!! OH NO!!" error and the game dies. It was actually handy the other day when the servers were shitty and I didnt feel like waiting for them to time out. Maybe thats why they did it?

Yeah it's great for when that wave of disgust for the game washes over you.

ALT+TAB=

 

[LowParry]

Yeah it does, but I have been playing fullscreen for better performance. Having to choose between better performance or the game crashing every time I need to look up a recipe is annoying.

Maybe this is where the duel screen comes into play. Maybe.