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[HylianScribe]

I thought my statement was ridiculous enough that the sarcasm would be obvious. Who knows though, let's see if I show up for coil all of this week. Pretty sure my sub runs out and needs renewal this week ^^

If you don't show up, I'll go get my carry from Master Rin. Got pretty far with that alternative group last night practicing as WHM, but had to leave to finish playing a game for work (and didn't want to risk actually clearing it and screwing us up tonight). The group ended up clearing in at some point, so I think Kenai and Rin got their first clears (congrats you both). FYI, not going to lie, our group is handicapped with me at SCH. I don't even play it right (manual pet controls? what are those?).

 

[Kintaro]

Other than relic weapon past the zenith stage it's still not too difficult to get gear for other classes, even if you have to take it a bit more slowly. Even with tome caps many people have a bunch of gear for multiple jobs by now if they've been capping since 2.2. That cap will go away next week so it will become even easier as well.

Since 2.2 would mean 6 months+. One could "cap out" equipment on multiple alts in less time frame due to caps. Again, I'm not saying its terrible, but there IS a shift and people have taken to alts to get around that (Coil lock outs, tomes, etc).

There is zero negative to catering (or at the least, throwing a damn bone) to altaholics. They sub longer, spend more, invest in the game more and play longer. =)

 

[Stuart444]

About the guildwork app people were asking about. The consensus from folks on reddit at least is, wait to hear something about it from SE but it could get you banned considering what it can do.

So yeah, don't use it unless we hear differently from SE about it.

 

[Jayhawk]

lol, well even with a nerf I don't see myself ever doing it again. Not worth the pain. (I don't like FATEs).

Let's all remember this quote when Kagari is farming ATMA for the next ranged class.

I don't even play it right (manual pet controls? what are those?).

Learn how to SCH from Bookey.

 

[Tabris]

I feel like there's going to be a huge gap for new players hitting 50 in mechanic learning based on gear distribution. Since you can get to i110 from hunting alone, it will change the dynamics.

We had to go:

50 > WP / AK > Relic > HM dungeons > CT > EX Primals > 1st Coil > EX Dungeons > 2nd Coil > CT2 > Hunting > 3rd Coil

Now it will be:

50 > Hunting > Relic > Hunting > EX Primals (for clear) > Turn 5 > Turn 9 > 3rd Coil

Sure, they'll still do what we did once maybe to clear the dungeon or primal, but will most likely be carried naturally since they won't be partying with people with the same experience. So when they start getting to EX Primals > Turn 5 > Turn 9 > 3rd Coil, it will be a shocking learning curve.

There has to be a point where it becomes too extreme to ramp up. Especially if they allow you do things like skip 1st coil to go into 2nd coil, same way they allow you to skip Titan EX now.

 

[IvorB]

Drop rate will be more than doubled, apparently.

Oh man. This is not good. This is not good at all. So all those people that couldn't be bothered to get off their a*ses and get the ATMA will just have it handed to them on a silver platter. I'm so sick of busting my a*s in this game trying to get stuff and then they just turn around and hand it out to everyone regardless. Where is the incentive to actually put effort into getting anything when whatever it is will just be cheapened to nothing? This is bullsh*t. They should refund me the hours I spent on ATMA.

 

[Kagari]

If you don't show up, I'll go get my carry from Master Rin. Got pretty far with that alternative group last night practicing as WHM, but had to leave to finish playing a game for work (and didn't want to risk actually clearing it and screwing us up tonight). The group ended up clearing in at some point, so I think Kenai and Rin got their first clears (congrats you both). FYI, not going to lie, our group is handicapped with me at SCH. I don't even play it right (manual pet controls? what are those?).

Put your faith in the AI!

 

[Munba]

Odin mount in cash shop is a low blow... and probably i'll buy it

 

[Tabris]

Oh man. This is not good. This is not good at all. So all those people that couldn't be bothered to get off their a*ses and get the ATMA will just have it handed to them on a silver platter. I'm so sick of busting my a*s in this game trying to get stuff and then they just turn around and hand it out to everyone regardless. Where is the incentive to actually put effort into getting anything when whatever it is will just be cheapened to nothing? This is bullsh*t. They should refund me the hours I spent on ATMA.

It's how these games work:

You can either play casual and be one step behind hardcore players, or be hardcore and put in a lot more time/effort and be that one step ahead. They make the game so the casual player can always be that one step behind the hardcore, and if they decide to go hardcore, they can then catch up instead of being perpetually behind.

 

[Tabris]

If you don't show up, I'll go get my carry from Master Rin. Got pretty far with that alternative group last night practicing as WHM, but had to leave to finish playing a game for work (and didn't want to risk actually clearing it and screwing us up tonight). The group ended up clearing in at some point, so I think Kenai and Rin got their first clears (congrats you both). FYI, not going to lie, our group is handicapped with me at SCH. I don't even play it right (manual pet controls? what are those?).

Pretty sure any of us got the fight down enough that we can join a group with clear experience and get the clear. Doesn't help us though for the future. So gotta work on your SCH skills Same way I gotta work on my MNK skills. Hard to play the job you're not natural at. But diversity is key to group success.

 

[Zomba13]

This chocobo colouring is so confusing ;_; I had no problems getting to Coral Pink the first time but going from there to Soot Black is so hard. I apparently only need 1 valfruit and 1 pineapple but when I just feed them I didn't get the message about new feathers growing. Do I need to feed more?

 

[Zalasta]

So...does that mean the materia prices will go up since more people will be working on novus/nexus?

 

[scy]

Oh man. This is not good. This is not good at all. So all those people that couldn't be bothered to get off their a*ses and get the ATMA will just have it handed to them on a silver platter. I'm so sick of busting my a*s in this game trying to get stuff and then they just turn around and hand it out to everyone regardless. Where is the incentive to actually put effort into getting anything when whatever it is will just be cheapened to nothing? This is bullsh*t. They should refund me the hours I spent on ATMA.

Because all that "effort" on a weapon that is worthless compared to a 2-3 hour vendor item is hard to get new players into that system; do keep in mind that the Atma weapon is an i90 weapon in terms of stats still and i100 (i110, realistically) will be the new baseline. The Relic weapon cannot function as a constantly upgrading weapon if the previous steps are so cumbersome that new players actively avoid it.

We'll probably see the same sort of progression for changes to the questline, assuming we get another step before Expansion just starts us fresh. Ideally, they'll probably only want 2 serious grind steps associated with the Relic step. One to get it to competitive with the Tome weapon and one to get it competitive with the raid weapon.

If you don't show up, I'll go get my carry from Master Rin. Got pretty far with that alternative group last night practicing as WHM, but had to leave to finish playing a game for work (and didn't want to risk actually clearing it and screwing us up tonight). The group ended up clearing in at some point, so I think Kenai and Rin got their first clears (congrats you both). FYI, not going to lie, our group is handicapped with me at SCH. I don't even play it right (manual pet controls? what are those?).

I legitimately still have no idea how Divebombs work. I spent more time watching the various elementals and Claw timings and just relied on calls.

also, believe in the AFK Selene

 

[Taruranto]

Rewards are from activities, but when evaluating what 'game content' actually is, the activities are the game content, the rewards necessary to advance (exp, key item, quest completion flag, etc.) are the actual rewards, the material rewards a bonus. Cash shop costumes are not keys to content, they are merely vanity. And vanity is exactly what the word is.

How can material rewards be "just a bonus" when it's the whole point of some things?

You think a level 50 crafter spending 1M to craft an Inferno Book would be OK with getting nothing because "material rewards is just a bonus, I got exp"?

You are also incredible dismissive of people who enjoy vanity items for some reason, you don't care for minions or pretty dresses, but for a lot of people these things are important. Heck, remember when CT was originally released and Yoshi-P said "Even if you are full iLevel 90, you can do it for vanity"

You spent a lot of time gardening and got nothing and you are OK with it? Good for you. I spent a lot of time gardening because I wanted the minions, if it weren't for the minions I wouldn't have gardened so much.

a misplaced fixation on ego-oriented material rewards.

...

 

[Jayhawk]

I legitimately still have no idea how Divebombs work. I spent more time watching the various elementals and Claw timings and just relied on calls.

Never admit to faking it til you made it.

 

[scy]

Never admit to faking it til you made it.

I tanked it, I don't even think we ever know that an actual fight goes on out there.

That said, now that I have most of the phase timings down, you actually do have a ton of time before you even need to know where the marks go. Going into the fight, I was thinking it was "okay, mark goes up soon, time to see where they're at to mark the safe spot" and it ends up being "oh, they're up there guess we know where to go after another minute of stuff happening."

 

[iammeiam]

I think people are falling for a parody of the griping over SCOB nerfs.

Sure, they'll still do what we did once maybe to clear the dungeon or primal, but will most likely be carried naturally since they won't be partying with people with the same experience. So when they start getting to EX Primals > Turn 5 > Turn 9 > 3rd Coil, it will be a shocking learning curve.

There has to be a point where it becomes too extreme to ramp up. Especially if they allow you do things like skip 1st coil to go into 2nd coil, same way they allow you to skip Titan EX now.

That's been the case since at least May, when I started hitting content. It makes no sense to force new people to struggle with stuff nobody does anymore, so they move the true tests of skill further down the line so people are struggling with stuff that's not yet totally irrelevant. Instead of realizing you're not that great in Titan HM, skill problems get punted down the line to Twin or Titan EX. You still have to come to grips with what the game expects of you going forward vs what you've been skating past so far, it just gets moved to something you might actually still be able to find people to run.

 

[Frumix]

I legitimately still have no idea how Divebombs work. I spent more time watching the various elementals and Claw timings and just relied on calls.

also, believe in the AFK Selene

Red Dragon's Cauterize in ST. It's exact same thing. There's only three patterns, first leap is best placed between the first two dragons clockwise from absolute north and then the second leap is best placed 180 degrees opposite from that.

 

[kierwynn]

Oh man. This is not good. This is not good at all. So all those people that couldn't be bothered to get off their a*ses and get the ATMA will just have it handed to them on a silver platter. I'm so sick of busting my a*s in this game trying to get stuff and then they just turn around and hand it out to everyone regardless. Where is the incentive to actually put effort into getting anything when whatever it is will just be cheapened to nothing? This is bullsh*t. They should refund me the hours I spent on ATMA.

Lol what? I'm really hoping this is sarcasm.

I for one welcome our new atma nerf. I changed classes after I gathered and traded in my atmas, so now maybe I can start upgrading my scholar book without spending another 5 hours in 1 zone.

 

[Tabris]

That's been the case since at least May, when I started hitting content. It makes no sense to force new people to struggle with stuff nobody does anymore, so they move the true tests of skill further down the line so people are struggling with stuff that's not yet totally irrelevant. Instead of realizing you're not that great in Titan HM, skill problems get punted down the line to Twin or Titan EX. You still have to come to grips with what the game expects of you going forward vs what you've been skating past so far, it just gets moved to something you might actually still be able to find people to run.

But the difference between something like Titan HM and Titan EX is so huge. I don't know how you would ramp up on Titan EX without having learned the mini mechanics in HM.

And it's just going to get more rough.

 

[studyguy]

CHOCOBO COLORING IS THE DEVIL

 

[Kagari]

I tanked it, I don't even think we ever know that an actual fight goes on out there.

That said, now that I have most of the phase timings down, you actually do have a ton of time before you even need to know where the marks go. Going into the fight, I was thinking it was "okay, mark goes up soon, time to see where they're at to mark the safe spot" and it ends up being "oh, they're up there guess we know where to go after another minute of stuff happening."

This is why we have Punch focus on it and not the MT.
But here is this handy chart:

 

[WolvenOne]

On this note: Rather glad there are no SCoB nerfs right when 2.4 hits, that sounds more like a 2.45 thing. It gives me a chance to salvage my dignity a bit, since it opens up T9 to far more learning opportunities, without actually taking down the difficulty any.

I mean, subtle nerfs alone probably wouldn't bother me much. If you can beat a turn with slightly weaker adds or whatnot, you can probably do it un-nerfed as well, but, nerfs, AND echo, that's a bit more significant.

 

[Wilsongt]

I'm a little dubious on this though. When 2.2 hit they did the same thing with some Phil items, however the Myth Drop amounts were lowered so much, that it was just about as difficult to get said items.

I suspect the nerf in the Soldiery drop rate, will make books just about as hard. If they really want to nerf books, take out the Fates.

Or increase some fate pop rates.
Nothing more annoying than waiting 2+ hrs in the Sylphlands...

 

[Kagari]

On this note: Rather glad there are no SCoB nerfs right when 2.4 hits, that sounds more like a 2.45 thing. It gives me a chance to salvage my dignity a bit, since it opens up T9 to far more learning opportunities, without actually taking down the difficulty any.

I mean, subtle nerfs alone probably wouldn't bother me much. If you can beat a turn with slightly weaker adds or whatnot, you can probably do it un-nerfed as well, but, nerfs, AND echo, that's a bit more significant.

They never said that did they? I thought they were just saying they won't introduce the echo until 2-3 weeks after patch.

 

[scy]

Red Dragon's Cauterize in ST. It's exact same thing. There's only three patterns, first leap is best placed between the first two dragons clockwise from absolute north and then the second leap is best placed 180 degrees opposite from that.

I guess the better way to phrase what I didn't pick up on Divebombs was figuring out the patterns and how to mark them. And that's pretty much entirely because I just didn't focus on panning out to see where they were and figuring it out (and because by the time I thought about it, oh hey marked already). I know the safe spots now so I can work backwards from there on a future attempt but I would definitely not be able to go in right now and do the marks myself if told to without a cheat sheet.

On this note: Rather glad there are no SCoB nerfs right when 2.4 hits, that sounds more like a 2.45 thing. It gives me a chance to salvage my dignity a bit, since it opens up T9 to far more learning opportunities, without actually taking down the difficulty any.

I mean, subtle nerfs alone probably wouldn't bother me much. If you can beat a turn with slightly weaker adds or whatnot, you can probably do it un-nerfed as well, but, nerfs, AND echo, that's a bit more significant.

Honestly, I'm curious to see what they choose to change just out of curiosity of finding out what they feel are the mechanics of the fight that would make it hard to DF. I think it's the precision of encounters so loosening Renaud stoning positioning / timing for T7, maybe keeping T8 mines visible longer, T9 second golem meteors can't double mark and reduce the range for meteors being too close, etc.

Or maybe they'll do nothing, hohoho

 

[Sorian]

Can I have your stuff?

Only if you put down the bow forever.

I will hunt you down.

At least your aware that the whole operation would be crippled for a little but without me

 

[Kagari]

I guess the better way to phrase what I didn't pick up on Divebombs was figuring out the patterns and how to mark them. And that's pretty much entirely because I just didn't focus on panning out to see where they were and figuring it out (and because by the time I thought about it, oh hey marked already). I know the safe spots now so I can work backwards from there on a future attempt but I would definitely not be able to go in right now and do the marks myself if told to without a cheat sheet.

Well personally I feel the main tank shouldn't have to worry about that. They should be focusing on dealing with Nael and Nael's positioning. The OT or other ranged DPS can mark.

 

[DarknessTear]

Well personally I feel the main tank shouldn't have to worry about that. They should be focusing on dealing with Nael and Nael's positioning. The OT or other ranged DPS can mark.

Or just have it pre-marked!

 

[Frumix]

I guess the better way to phrase what I didn't pick up on Divebombs was figuring out the patterns and how to mark them. And that's pretty much entirely because I just didn't focus on panning out to see where they were and figuring it out (and because by the time I thought about it, oh hey marked already). I know the safe spots now so I can work backwards from there on a future attempt but I would definitely not be able to go in right now and do the marks myself if told to without a cheat sheet.

Get your OT to do it, or lacking that, MT should still have ample time during the claws to place the markers.
Well of course if they're using a gamepad might be tricky to quickly rotate the camera and markers around.

 

[WolvenOne]

They never said that did they? I thought they were just saying they won't introduce the echo until 2-3 weeks after patch.

No, they said that nerfs wouldn't be introduced til Echo, I believe.

 

[iammeiam]

But the difference between something like Titan HM and Titan EX is so huge. I don't know how you would ramp up on Titan EX without having learned the mini mechanics in HM.

And it's just going to get more rough.

I'm pretty sure the only reason I can reliably dodge in Titan HM is the literal month I spent DFing EX (Garuda and Titan achievments exactly one month apart); you learn by dying. A lot. For a long time. Gear and echo just makes the encounter more forgiving--so you still have to deal with the more brutal mechanics, but messing up a weight dodge isn't an insta death. You can learn and stay in the fight. At this point you can pretty much lose a tank and a healer in heart and still clear, so it's pretty forgiving.

But my understanding is that HM in 2.0 was learn by dying, too. I just didn't have to spend a ton of time adjusting to the HM patterns only to get wrecked again in EX, and by the time I hit EX I was geared enough I could survive a mistake or two.

Spoiler

I still had to get carried to get a clear, though.

 

[Wilsongt]

We need an official HQ release of Koji doing Mog and Titan so I can make a thread about it and share it with GAF.

 

[Kagari]

Or just have it pre-marked!

Which, again, the MT shouldn't worry about that. The way we do it with real time marking is just the way that was more comfortable for Punch.

 

[scy]

Well personally I feel the main tank shouldn't have to worry about that. They should be focusing on dealing with Nael and Nael's positioning. The OT or other ranged DPS can mark.

Permission to always rely on Punch, gg.

 

[Sorian]

I would love my MT marking since he isn't doing anything else but PC master race and mouse/keyboard superiority needs to be used for the marking apparently.

 

[Ken]

Oh man. This is not good. This is not good at all. So all those people that couldn't be bothered to get off their a*ses and get the ATMA will just have it handed to them on a silver platter. I'm so sick of busting my a*s in this game trying to get stuff and then they just turn around and hand it out to everyone regardless. Where is the incentive to actually put effort into getting anything when whatever it is will just be cheapened to nothing? This is bullsh*t. They should refund me the hours I spent on ATMA.

I don't see them handing out T9 clears yet.

Also I am lazy and couldn't bother with Atma and Animus books so I respect your sacrifice.

 

[Sorian]

Oh man. This is not good. This is not good at all. So all those people that couldn't be bothered to get off their a*ses and get the ATMA will just have it handed to them on a silver platter. I'm so sick of busting my a*s in this game trying to get stuff and then they just turn around and hand it out to everyone regardless. Where is the incentive to actually put effort into getting anything when whatever it is will just be cheapened to nothing? This is bullsh*t. They should refund me the hours I spent on ATMA.

Hah, I didn't see this post. I'll be blunt. Don't be stupid. The reward is the head start you had on the item. If you don't like nerfs, stop playing MMOs. It's better for all of us.

 

[Kosma]

If I played a bit on pc, and I buy the ps4 version, can I continue with the same character?

 

[studyguy]

If I played a bit on pc, and I buy the ps4 version, can I continue with the same character?

yes

 

[Tabris]

I would love my MT marking since he isn't doing anything else but PC master race and mouse/keyboard superiority needs to be used for the marking apparently.

You have one job to do that phase, stop your complaining You should be happy you get to push more than 3 buttons in that phase unlike the previous 3 phases.

 

[Ken]

Why not have the OT mark?

 

[Tabris]

Why not have the OT mark?

Cause I trust Asami to do it right. We have varying levels of skill and reaction time in our group, so can't always do the ideal thing sometimes.

 

[studyguy]

Speaking of OT

FINAL FANTASY XIV |OT6| ???

 

[Ken]

Cause I trust Asami to do it right. We have varying levels of skill and reaction time in our group, so can't always do the ideal thing sometimes.

Dragons come out during Bahamut's Favor and OT has a billion seconds to look north, put a mark to the right of the first dragon he sees clockwise, and that's it.

 

[Kagari]

Speaking of OT

FINAL FANTASY XIV |OT6| ???

I need some clever pun for it.

 

[Wilsongt]

I need some clever pun for it.

"No. Recompose."

 

[Frumix]

Speaking of OT

FINAL FANTASY XIV |OT6| ???

"cash shop never bothered me anyway"

 

[IvorB]

It's how these games work:

You can either play casual and be one step behind hardcore players, or be hardcore and put in a lot more time/effort and be that one step ahead. They make the game so the casual player can always be that one step behind the hardcore, and if they decide to go hardcore, they can then catch up instead of being perpetually behind.

Hmmm... I guess it sucks to be only one half a step ahead. I only just did this ATMA crap. What a load of horse sh*t.

Because all that "effort" on a weapon that is worthless compared to a 2-3 hour vendor item is hard to get new players into that system; do keep in mind that the Atma weapon is an i90 weapon in terms of stats still and i100 (i110, realistically) will be the new baseline. The Relic weapon cannot function as a constantly upgrading weapon if the previous steps are so cumbersome that new players actively avoid it.

We'll probably see the same sort of progression for changes to the questline, assuming we get another step before Expansion just starts us fresh. Ideally, they'll probably only want 2 serious grind steps associated with the Relic step. One to get it to competitive with the Tome weapon and one to get it competitive with the raid weapon.

I'm sure most people are aware that the ATMA weapon is a means to an end and not the end itself. I don't even use it. And I don't know where you are getting 2-3 hours from. It would take you about three weeks to get a sol weapon which will never go above 110 and is not customisable. As you said yourself: it's optional and presents advantages over when you can buy so I don't think asking people to put a little "effort" in is unreasonable. Bah whatever. The moaners got what they want now so no point b*tching about it. But I'll think twice before I go the extra mile to unlock stuff in this game.

 

[studyguy]

I feel like we need a batman joke, a Koji joke or a joke about ice.