Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Dark Stalkers said:
Glaceon is the coolest though.
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Final Fantasy XIV Reviews - GameSpot 4/10, GameTrailers 4.2/10, GameSpy 2/5, IGN 5.5
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Glaceon is the coolest though.
notworksafe
Member
Dark Stalkers is bias. Must not have gotten paid by Raichu to give him a good review.Dark Stalkers said:
I think a comment I read somewhere on the internet put it best. I don't have the exact quote here but it went more along these lines:
In trying to reinvent the MMO to have their own take at it, Square-Enix took a car, swapped the wheels with squares, put the steering wheel in the trunk and had the engine run on bicycle pedals. Sure it's unique, but that shit won't run.
In trying to reinvent the MMO to have their own take at it, Square-Enix took a car, swapped the wheels with squares, put the steering wheel in the trunk and had the engine run on bicycle pedals. Sure it's unique, but that shit won't run.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Victrix said:Don't do that, I visit this thread daily to remind myself that there is always someone out there in the world having less fun than me
The FFXIV OT is still open.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
CcrooK said:
Yea it is strange. I mean, I enjoyed Too Human, but I can totally understand why a lot of people wouldn't enjoy it at all.
Vincent Alexander
Member
With all this hate, you'd expect someone went into another's house and slapped their mother.
Ethics Gradient
Member
Yeah.
Pretty much the same sentiment here. I'm all for Final Fantasy worlds and characters MMO-style, but just don't have the time anymore to plod through a clunky UI, and the lackluster battle gameplay. When I canceled, I was looking for a place to give some helpful feeback. Of course, I didn't see any.
Will keep my eye on the game and future patches, though.
Pretty much the same sentiment here. I'm all for Final Fantasy worlds and characters MMO-style, but just don't have the time anymore to plod through a clunky UI, and the lackluster battle gameplay. When I canceled, I was looking for a place to give some helpful feeback. Of course, I didn't see any.
Will keep my eye on the game and future patches, though.
UI and combat gameplay is a matter of personal preference, so I don't get why it's such a problem for people in FFXIV. It's ridiculous that anyone could complain about that unless they've been bought off. I mean, unless they weren't bought off. I mean... bias-aiaiaiaiaiaiaiaiaiai*head explodes*Ethics Gradient said:
Welcome to the light, brother. The bad game can hurt you no longer.
FieryBalrog
Member
This thread is 100x more entertaining than the game itself
Also, lets be honest. If this game didn't have catgirls and moogles half these hardcore supporters would just ignore it.
Also, lets be honest. If this game didn't have catgirls and moogles half these hardcore supporters would just ignore it.
Dreamwriter
Member
That would suck, I'd much rather an integrated story cutscene with characters tell me where to go, rather than just reading some boring text box listing a wall of text. The game really needs a lot more storyline cutscenes, FFXI was chock full of em, even for basic non-mission quests with throwaway characters (ie, random villagers)Regulus Tera said:
Vincent Alexander
Member
Wait. This game actually takes a step backwards from FFXI? Ouch.Dreamwriter said:
Vincent Alexander said:
Seems to be that if you don't agree with the majority this is what happens.
There the same amount of CS's as FFXI without the first expansion. Which is missions 1 all the way up to the first Dragon plus evil eye fight. (actually I don't know when the Shadow Lord fight was introduced)
You have to continue to rank up to access them. Just like how you have to keep leveling up in FFXI to access things.
:lol This is my first thread I go into everyday now on Gaf. So much hilarity and most of it has to do with Londa.
I guess I'm somewhat in the same camp as her...I'm playing the game and trying to make the most of it. I'm sure she and I both hope it will get better to the point where we may be able to look back on its release and laugh. Will the game reach that point who knows?
I guess the main difference between myself and Londa here is that I don't want to defend FFXIV. The few good qualities of it that the majority will agree are good are all over shadowed by the negative parts of the game.
While I don't agree the game deserves a 4/10----it's NOT that bad for my playtime, but I could see why someone else could think it IS that bad. I agree with most of what the bad reviews have said and don't see the point in beating a dead horse anymore. The game is not for everyone...and hell it might not even be for me if SE doesn't get it together by the time my patience runs out.
The game sucks to the majority of gamers. 'nuff said.
I guess I'm somewhat in the same camp as her...I'm playing the game and trying to make the most of it. I'm sure she and I both hope it will get better to the point where we may be able to look back on its release and laugh. Will the game reach that point who knows?
I guess the main difference between myself and Londa here is that I don't want to defend FFXIV. The few good qualities of it that the majority will agree are good are all over shadowed by the negative parts of the game.
While I don't agree the game deserves a 4/10----it's NOT that bad for my playtime, but I could see why someone else could think it IS that bad. I agree with most of what the bad reviews have said and don't see the point in beating a dead horse anymore. The game is not for everyone...and hell it might not even be for me if SE doesn't get it together by the time my patience runs out.
The game sucks to the majority of gamers. 'nuff said.
I love this thread. It's a reminder for myself to keep my inner fanboy in check. Some people in here outright scare me. There's liking a game, and then there's liking a game.
Anyway, I finally finished watching the yogcasts. Holy shit. :lol
Both guys sound like the game has drained all their will to live at around the fourteenth episode. Which is probably what happened, judging by their previous episodes.
Anyway, I finally finished watching the yogcasts. Holy shit. :lol
Both guys sound like the game has drained all their will to live at around the fourteenth episode. Which is probably what happened, judging by their previous episodes.
I've got a few friends playing 14 pretty hardcore but even they agree with the majority of the criticisms in the Gametrailers and Gamespot review. There's nothing wrong with defending 14 but when you have someone like Londa spouting a massive agenda by games journalism to deface FFXIV for Blizzard's sake it's kind of ridiculous.zlatko said:
Technosteve
Banned
Yo i just bought the game instead of renewing my WoW account i will update you guys with my review i am going to level a fishing cat girl can some one link me a leveling guide or sites where i can download add ons to mod the ui?
Vampire Baseball
Member
What's all this I keep reading about the game only having a handful of quests? What do you do most of the time? Grind mobs until you level up? What mobs? Those videos showed deserted landscapes.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Dreamwriter said:
I would buy this if the cutscenes had any sort of drama, either action or character development-wise. But they don't.
It's like Dissidia, but worse.
HK-47 said:
FFXIII looks like MOTHER 3 in comparison.
Technosteve, may god have mercy upon your soul.
If I understand it correctly you're supposed to farm and craft as well as level your non-main professions by changing weapons and beating up the heavily contested mobs. A quite optimistic explanation of this "horizontal and vertical growth" system can be found here. Large pinch of salt required.Vampire Baseball said:
Alex
Member
Vampire Baseball said:
For combat classes, you get up to 8 randomly generated quests every 36 hours. They don't have much, if any. real meaning or chains or context outside of the intro and basically just involve going to random camps, heading to a random highlight on the map, then doing your simple fare. It's really simple and honestly even at the birth of questing in MMOs would have felt dated.
When you're finished with your 8, then your'e SOL for a day and a half. Now what you can do is share leves, but it's kind of obnoxious since it's just the same thing and because you have to keep routing trips to town to pick them up since they're consumed if multiple people have them on their person upon completion.
Outside of that, you grind, but you can't grind like you did in FFXI. Combat is currently much worse, there's no real skill or exp chains, battle regiments, the supposed follow up to them (skillchains) are really bad at the moment. So for grinding, there's no camps like XI, and the mobs are mostly on random spawns for a lot of the world. So you basically wander sections of the wilderness and hope you bump into things, and yeah, the world is devoid of anything. It's just pure landmass. There's no story or lore or landmarks or anything. All you have are those copy/pasted camps for you to activate your leves at.
The combat is really unresponsive too. I was originally very happy to hear a variant of ATB being put into XIV, but it's so bland and spammy and it just handles so poorly. =/
There's also the matter of the horrible skill point splits between archetypes, basically their form of class EXP. I've heard this was fixed up a bit, but then I've also heard the opposite. Still, the entire core game engine is basically held together by popsicle sticks and bubblegum at the moment.
The one thing the game does kind of well is crafting, the gathering and crafting is a bit obtuse, but it's an interesting system. The problems are the recipes and balancing of them are terrible and social and economic systems (ranged invites, mail, auctions, basically anything) just don't exist.
It's just nowhere near where Final Fantasy XI was when it hit the US in 2003, and that just blows my mind. FFXI wasn't even some amazing product at the time, it was pretty middle of the road but with some really great elements at the core of it. How the hell do you go backwards after all those years? MMOs have made gigantic leaps in almost every way shape and form, every unique entry and subgenre since those days.
It's not like FFXIV is even unique or anything, people like to say it is, but it really isn't. It's basically, very obviously, trying to forego the grindy/groupy EQish nature of XI for a more modern quest based structure and doing it in the worst way anyone has ever done it in the history of the human race.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
CTLance said:
What a terrible fucking idea :lol
APZonerunner
Member
The interesting this is that Square Enix actually asked press (EU press, at least) to give the game "three to four weeks" before reviewing to get over any teething problems despite the fact that we'd all been in the Alpha and Closed and Open Betas anyway. That's why there's been no review from me yet. This is fairly reasonable for an MMO, but there'd have to be a hell of a patch to make this an acceptable release.
Regulus Tera said:
Right. So you saw all the cutscenes from all the nations missions and all the class quests already?
Go request someone that played the game fro more than 5 hours to do a video review of the game past rank 10, there's so much more than what all these idiotic reviewers had seen and shown.
APZonerunner said:
Was that the only reason given by them? Not like to at least see more of the game than just the first 10 ranks of a given class too?
HappyBivouac
Member
Alright guys, let me clear this up:
Most people who are defending this game will admit to you that the game does suck as it is right now.
However, it seems most people who are panning the game are taking the position of "the game sucks," without that added descriptor on the end.
An MMO is a long-term, ever-changing experience. The game 6 months from now will not be the same game that is being reviewed right now.
The game currently isn't what it was ever intended to be. That should be plainly obvious to everyone with a brain. This is where most of the current issues cited in the negative reviews come from. These are the things that will and already are getting patched in.
However, you also have people reviewing the game who obviously would've never liked what the game was intended to be from the beginning. People who complain about cutscenes and the like. I watched a few minutes of the yogscast video posted above. The guy spammed enter through his cutscenes, and then complained about not knowing what he was supposed to be doing. Are you fucking serious? This guy was never going to like a Final Fantasy game to begin with. Generally good reviews are carried out by someone who has a decent grasp on what fans of a particular type of game are looking for.
Some people in this thread have said that reviewing the game in its current form and not what it could be in the future is the "honest" approach to reviewing it. That is idiotic. An MMO is not simply what it is at launch. Reviewing it only at launch and ignoring/dismissing its future potential is such a blatant disregard for common review sense that I can't believe so many people are on board with this type of thinking.
I bring up the point yet again that FFXI at its launch was pretty much just as unplayable as this is right now, yet vast improvements were made within the first 6 months and by then they almost had the first expansion out.
Now, the stock response to this is usually: "But that was 8 years ago; they should've learned from their mistakes!"
That is irrelevant. We are discussing the merits of an MMO; a type of game that can only be fairly judged by looking at the entirety of its ever-changing lifespan. FFXI ended up being a great game, so following this logic, FFXIV with largely the same development team has plenty of room to become a great game as well. There is no "holding it to a higher standard because it's 2010." That's bullshit. You either enjoy a game or you don't, and FFXIV isn't a game that anyone can adequately say whether they enjoy or not yet. They can only say they do or do not enjoy what of the game is currently there.
Allow me to put it this way:
1) Think of one game that you would consider your all-time favorite game. Once you've come up with one, go to step two.
2) Now imagine that, instead of finishing the game and releasing it on schedule, some higher-up in the company told the devs to release it six to twelve months early, promising updates post-launch to bring the game up to what it's supposed to be.
3) They release the game, and predictably it is one of the worst games you've ever played, because it was released unfinished. You hate the game; a few review sites give it a 4/10. Keep in mind this is still that game you named as your favorite of all time in step 1.
4) Six months later, the game has been updated several times, and this hypothetical iteration of your game is now exactly identical to the real word game you call your all-time favorite.
5) Is this a terrible game? Sure, releasing it later and therefore having a cleaner more polished launch would've been nice, but it ended up being the same awesome product in the end. What do you think? Does the game still deserve a 4/10?
I'm not saying that FFXIV will become as good as your favorite game; merely that it is unfair and just plain irrational to judge it as a completed game, the way many are now doing. A game like FFXIV needs this kind of post-launch development. They have their reasons for wanting to do things the way they're doing them, but at the same time they need to see how players play and what they like and dislike and respond to them. It is continual development.
The problem is, the gaming community at large has become this giant festering monster that expects instant gratification, instant closure, and relishes in every chance to criticize. So, if you had any interest in this game but acknowledge the fact that it sucks in its current state, great! Check back in a while. But if you're just in here to say that the game sucks, period, end of story, then please try to think about how irrational that sort of thinking is.
Most people who are defending this game will admit to you that the game does suck as it is right now.
However, it seems most people who are panning the game are taking the position of "the game sucks," without that added descriptor on the end.
An MMO is a long-term, ever-changing experience. The game 6 months from now will not be the same game that is being reviewed right now.
The game currently isn't what it was ever intended to be. That should be plainly obvious to everyone with a brain. This is where most of the current issues cited in the negative reviews come from. These are the things that will and already are getting patched in.
However, you also have people reviewing the game who obviously would've never liked what the game was intended to be from the beginning. People who complain about cutscenes and the like. I watched a few minutes of the yogscast video posted above. The guy spammed enter through his cutscenes, and then complained about not knowing what he was supposed to be doing. Are you fucking serious? This guy was never going to like a Final Fantasy game to begin with. Generally good reviews are carried out by someone who has a decent grasp on what fans of a particular type of game are looking for.
Some people in this thread have said that reviewing the game in its current form and not what it could be in the future is the "honest" approach to reviewing it. That is idiotic. An MMO is not simply what it is at launch. Reviewing it only at launch and ignoring/dismissing its future potential is such a blatant disregard for common review sense that I can't believe so many people are on board with this type of thinking.
I bring up the point yet again that FFXI at its launch was pretty much just as unplayable as this is right now, yet vast improvements were made within the first 6 months and by then they almost had the first expansion out.
Now, the stock response to this is usually: "But that was 8 years ago; they should've learned from their mistakes!"
That is irrelevant. We are discussing the merits of an MMO; a type of game that can only be fairly judged by looking at the entirety of its ever-changing lifespan. FFXI ended up being a great game, so following this logic, FFXIV with largely the same development team has plenty of room to become a great game as well. There is no "holding it to a higher standard because it's 2010." That's bullshit. You either enjoy a game or you don't, and FFXIV isn't a game that anyone can adequately say whether they enjoy or not yet. They can only say they do or do not enjoy what of the game is currently there.
Allow me to put it this way:
1) Think of one game that you would consider your all-time favorite game. Once you've come up with one, go to step two.
2) Now imagine that, instead of finishing the game and releasing it on schedule, some higher-up in the company told the devs to release it six to twelve months early, promising updates post-launch to bring the game up to what it's supposed to be.
3) They release the game, and predictably it is one of the worst games you've ever played, because it was released unfinished. You hate the game; a few review sites give it a 4/10. Keep in mind this is still that game you named as your favorite of all time in step 1.
4) Six months later, the game has been updated several times, and this hypothetical iteration of your game is now exactly identical to the real word game you call your all-time favorite.
5) Is this a terrible game? Sure, releasing it later and therefore having a cleaner more polished launch would've been nice, but it ended up being the same awesome product in the end. What do you think? Does the game still deserve a 4/10?
I'm not saying that FFXIV will become as good as your favorite game; merely that it is unfair and just plain irrational to judge it as a completed game, the way many are now doing. A game like FFXIV needs this kind of post-launch development. They have their reasons for wanting to do things the way they're doing them, but at the same time they need to see how players play and what they like and dislike and respond to them. It is continual development.
The problem is, the gaming community at large has become this giant festering monster that expects instant gratification, instant closure, and relishes in every chance to criticize. So, if you had any interest in this game but acknowledge the fact that it sucks in its current state, great! Check back in a while. But if you're just in here to say that the game sucks, period, end of story, then please try to think about how irrational that sort of thinking is.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Khrno said:
If a game cannot grab me in the first two hours why should I continue playing?
Admittedly I haven't even played this, I'm going by the Yogscast review.
Technosteve
Banned
Why would i pay 50 dollars for an intolerably bad game, no i pay 100 dollars so i can rope my friend to play with me. But he might just tell me to spend that 100 on a year long sub to WoW and go raiding with him.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu is it worth the 100 dollars for the comedic value?
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu is it worth the 100 dollars for the comedic value?
notworksafe
Member
It isn't irrelevant though. The game has been released in a clearly unfinished and broken state. The basics of the MMO game should have been apparent to Square when they first started this project. The problem people are having is that basic elements are left out of the game. The things that should have been in there from the start are nowhere to be found.
By saying that past MMO experience is irrelevant you are saying that devs should ignore past experience making games of the same type. And yes, devs making games in the year 2010 are expected to learn from the lessons of their company and other companies when making a game. In the past eight years technology has improved, MMOs have evolved, and what a customer expects from a game they are paying for upfront AND with a subscription fee has changed. I suppose you'd be okay if the graphics and battle system were the same as FF1? After all it's unfair to have higher expectations for a new game, right?
By saying that past MMO experience is irrelevant you are saying that devs should ignore past experience making games of the same type. And yes, devs making games in the year 2010 are expected to learn from the lessons of their company and other companies when making a game. In the past eight years technology has improved, MMOs have evolved, and what a customer expects from a game they are paying for upfront AND with a subscription fee has changed. I suppose you'd be okay if the graphics and battle system were the same as FF1? After all it's unfair to have higher expectations for a new game, right?
Regulus Tera said:
Sucks for you. But let me tell you what you can get done in 2 hours in this game: either complete the first main quest which involves all those "boring" cutscenes, which certainly aren't, and have some interesting story and start showing some of the main NPCs for each nation. Or you can get a class to rank 10 through leves and an maybe a few extra mobs for normal grinding, then as being rank 10 you would have access to more story quests, money so you can gear up, change classes, craft, or just do more leves.
Anyway, it's because of people of you like FFXI will remain like the best most underrated game ever, well one of the best, since I'm sure there must be a few more like it around.
Oh, and MMOs aren't about their first 2 hours, thaqt's why you get a month free on most of them (or free trials), so you can go past the first 10 levels and see more than what these idiotic reviewers showed.
HappyBivouac
Member
Regulus Tera said:
Because you understand that an MMO is a long-term game and the ideal scenario for most MMO players is that they'll spend some time in the beginning learning the game and getting into its flow, and then end up enjoying the rewarding experience it gives for months, often years down the line. Unless you absolutely abhor the first two hours, (and honestly, the first two hours of ffxiv are pretty well done if you're literate.) then you should know that the first two hours are going to be nowhere near indicative what your experience with the game will be should you stick with it for a long time.
The beginning of the game does throw you into a learning curve and it does make you figure some things out, but that's not bad game design. There are lots of people who have seen ways in which this leads to a more rewarding long-term experience. (FFXI) Say what you want about FFXI's design, but it has been a very successful venture for SE and there are many out there who consider it one of the most brilliant RPGs ever made.
Khrno said:
Or you could spend two hours searching the wards for shards. Or you could spend to hours grinding the same mobs for shards. Or you could spend 45 min walking from Grid to Limsa to do those extra leves. Or you could spend two hours making the same thing to gain one level.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Londa said:
Your chosen MMO is shit, you'll snap out of it one day.
Sooner than i thought! :lol
HappyBivouac
Member
notworksafe said:
Those aren't the same sorts of expectations, though. I'm not saying devs should ignore past experience. I'm saying that the players shouldn't even consider these things when evaluating the game. It's simply up to us players to decide whether we enjoy the game or not. That's it. And when deciding when one enjoys an MMO or not, he or she should look at it from the perspective of a long-term ever-changing game. FFXI started out like this yet offered a thoroughly enjoyable game in the long-term, so why are people thinking this won't?
If you went out and said Super Mario Galaxy was a better game than Super Mario Bros. you'd have a legion of people lining up to debate that with you or at least staunchly disagree.
PandaPandaPanda
Member
Velorath said:
guess another site that didnt get paid by square-enix
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