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Why Square continues to give numerical values (XI, XIV) to their MMO atrocities is beyond me.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Can anyone tell me why FFXIV didn't just launch with an Auction House like in FFXI?

FFXI's AH was probably the best part of the game.

 

[RainbowByte]

It's been live and in development for over 8 years now, has nine expansion, it better be.

You'd think some of that superbness of ffxi being a more mature game would have rubbed off on the ffxiv team. They're the same damn company, making the same type of game (mmorpg) - its not like hoping for your sports dev team to be awesome because you also make million selling rpg games. They should have mastered their tools and content creation pipeline and at least transferred best dev practices enough to have an obscene amount of varied content available at launch and also swallow their pride and integrate player feedback regarding the UI and gameplay mechanics based on alpha and beta testing.

I beta'd ffxiv and got the CE version at launch , sticking with it as long as I could. I really wanted to love it and dragged a friend along with me to play a bit, hoping for a miracle, but the package as a whole makes me just rage at the trainwreck of a game this is. My friends and I have abandoned FFXIV and gone back to FFXI, I thought FFXI would take a huge hit server population wise after the release of FFXIV, i'm rather surprised to see ~4k players per ffxi server on weekends. Perhaps FFXIV is getting players from other mmos, its not cannibalizing the ffxi playerbase as theorized.

This game deserves a 3/10 , the FF franchise and the music score save this game from being utterly irrelevant. Only Square could get away with releasing a unfinished pile of trash such as this game and still have legions of catgirl loving forum warriors rallying to their defense that SE will magically patch this game out of the abyss that it so rightfully deserves to fall into.

 

[Xater]

I just saw this thread.

Holy shit! I did not expect this game to end up being this awful. I was kinda looking forward to the console version, but even if they fix some bugs alot of the negative stuff will probably still be in it. Looks like DC Universe is the only console MMO left that I am looking forward to. I really hope that turns out well....

 

[DaBuddaDa]

You'd think some of that superbness of ffxi being a more mature game would have rubbed off on the ffxiv team. They're the same damn company, making the same type of game (mmorpg) - its not like hoping for your sports dev team to be awesome because you also make million selling rpg games. They should have mastered their tools and content creation pipeline and at least transferred best dev practices enough to have an obscene amount of varied content available at launch and also swallow their pride and integrate player feedback regarding the UI and gameplay mechanics based on alpha and beta testing.

Creating a whole new game isn't that simplistic, especially not one the size of a MMORPG. The argument that says "they've made MMOs before, they should know what they're doing" is inaccurate. EA Sports has been making basketball games every year for decades, but look at the NBA Elite 2011 debacle.

Looks like DC Universe is the only console MMO left that I am looking forward to. I really hope that turns out well....

The Old Republic, Guild Wars 2 and Vindictus beckon you...

Edit: oh, console...poor you.

 

[RainbowByte]

Can anyone tell me why FFXIV didn't just launch with an Auction House like in FFXI?

FFXI's AH was probably the best part of the game.

Someone on the ffxiv team thought it would be retro cool to do a worse implementation of Everquest's Bazaar zone which came out in 2001 (shadows of luclin expansion) or go even farther back in time to the days of people /shout selling stuff in kelethin/freeport :lol

 

[Teknoman]

Why Square continues to give numerical values (XI, XIV) to their MMO atrocities is beyond me.

Because XI actually has nice party mechanics, a great soundtrack, and a decent story that actually makes sense/is understandable?

XIV still has to prove itself in the long run of course.

SE will magically patch this game out of the abyss that it so rightfully deserves to fall into.

They will, just like with XI. The question is, how long will it take?

And yeah, XIV should've just launched with an AH and then go from there...

 

[Ferrio]

Creating a whole new game isn't that simplistic, especially not one the size of a MMORPG. The argument that says "they've made MMOs before, they should know what they're doing" is inaccurate. EA Sports has been making basketball games every year for decades, but look at the NBA Elite 2011 debacle.

It's perfectly accurate. Both examples you given shouldn't be excused for it. Maybe you could excuse bugs as they happen in new software... but they certainly should of learned what design decisions to avoid/use.

 

[PistolGrip]

pretty sure Im beaten but it looks like Squeenix decided to put a beta version on PC and will release the real version on PS3 in March.

 

[Drkirby]

I still think Square should of just called it Final Fantasy Online, not FFXI.

 

[Vinci]

Creating a whole new game isn't that simplistic, especially not one the size of a MMORPG. The argument that says "they've made MMOs before, they should know what they're doing" is inaccurate. EA Sports has been making basketball games every year for decades, but look at the NBA Elite 2011 debacle.

Also didn't keep Mythic from creating Warhammer after getting PvP reasonably right with DAOC, but oh well...

 

[Coldsnap]

I think people waiting for the ps3 version are making the best decision. 3 months from now the game will either be better or it will be dead and not worth purchase. You will be always behind the people that played at launch though.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Here's the thing about FFXIV - everyone who plays it LOVES IT, even with its flaws. They may bitch about it - but they always say they'll keep playing it until the 30 days are up - meaning they are having enough fun to keep playing at least that long. And often that is followed up by "and maybe I'll try it again later after they've fixed things."

I stopped playing maybe 4 days after I got the CE. That's how excited I was for it, and how long it took me to be done with it until it's fixed.

 

[Torquill]

Someone on the ffxiv team thought it would be retro cool to do a worse implementation of Everquest's Bazaar zone which came out in 2001 (shadows of luclin expansion) or go even farther back in time to the days of people /shout selling stuff in kelethin/freeport :lol

Ec tunnel = Rolanberry

did Sol bazaar launch with search? I can't remember.

Did anyone do an AH before ffxi?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

I guess Im gonna wait and see how the PS3 launch goes

There's a chance the game will tank so badly you won't even get a ps3 ver.

They'd be better off putting this game in maintenance mode. 4/10 reviews? even the ps3 fanbase know to stay well away from this one.

 

[Torquill]

There's a chance the game will tank so badly you won't even get a ps3 ver.

They'd be better off putting this game in maintenance mode. 4/10 reviews? even the ps3 fanbase know to stay well away from this one.

Initial box sales alone will prob did at leas the ps3 dev

 

[Rentahamster]

Arent the wards supposed to just replace tons of people idling in normal areas to bazaar stuff? An AH and Retainer ward could exist side by side i'd think.

In a testament to unintended consequences, stupid design decision, and devs clearly not thinking their cunning plan through, the stupid market ward system has made those tons of people idling in normal areas even more prolific.

 

[HappyBivouac]

I just saw this thread.

Holy shit! I did not expect this game to end up being this awful. I was kinda looking forward to the console version, but even if they fix some bugs alot of the negative stuff will probably still be in it. Looks like DC Universe is the only console MMO left that I am looking forward to. I really hope that turns out well....

You have absolutely no way of knowing what the game will be like by March. I'm not saying it's a great game as it is, but it's got tons of obvious potential. At the very least I'd recommend you check back every so often.

 

[Takuan]

Watching the Yogscast review and yeah, I don't see them patching out that first hour+ of complete inanity and the generally idiotic core design choices that invalidate the game for everyone but the most stubborn/patient FF fans. It's a shame, because the game clearly has style going for it, but it's wasted on an absolutely terrible game. Without the branding, it'd die a quick, merciful death.

 

[Alex]

It'll be the same thing with a few tweaks and standardized additions, like maybe they'll actually have MAIL in place by then! Do people really need to build up another phase of "It's just beta guys! It's just beta! They're just holding back ALL of the content because it's beta!" again?

They're not going to reinvent the wheel no matter how much hope your harbor. Their game world isn't going to go from copy/pasted and hilariously empty to filled with life, story and content (that, in addition, isn't randomly generated and miserable) in the course of six months from a developer with a very penny pinching live budget.

Honestly, there's just so very little to this game, it's so dreadfully simple, busted and empty, I'd say it has some of the least potential of any current or upcoming MMO to actually be something. There's a lot more interesting things going on in the genre, now and upcoming, than sitting around, hoping that a development team that learned nothing from 8 years of prior MMO design suddenly gets awesome in six months. Talk about desperation.

 

[FLEABttn]

He is the one that said FFXIV was to compete with WoW. While Tanaka said they aren't trying to compete with WoW. But people keep posting Wada's quote because it helps prove their point that FFXIV is failing, or needs to be a WoW clone. I'm looking at you notworksafe.

You know who you remind me of? All the people on Brad McQuaid's balls when Vanguard was coming out. Maybe we'll be lucky and you'll admit you were just speaking from your irrational hopes for the game, like most Vanguard fanboys these days, because the state of FF14 is indefensible.

I mean it literally makes Vanguard look good and complete and that was the industry joke until FF14.

 

[Xilium]

You're missing the forest for the trees though. I'm not saying it has to be like WoW and do everything like WoW does, but rather look at WoW, and other modern MMOs as an inspiration.

Why go against the grain with the market ward system? The economy problem in MMOs has more or less been solved already and probably doesn't need to be optimized any further. What does the Market Ward system accomplish other than "not being an auction house?" Even after they get searching and categorization out of the way, why is it better than an auction house? Why even bother going in this direction? You can't do things just to be different.

All I'm saying is that somebody had to be the pioneer for the Auction House. For all the complaining about stagnation in games it just seems sad to me that any game that tries to break from the norm just gets brutalized by the gaming populace.

As for the problem with modern MMO economies, I would think the two biggest are RMT and hyper inflation, which the AH more or less promotes. Whether or not SE's vision of the market ward would help to deter that is unknown at this point. At the very least, it prevents RMTs from having an easily assessable, worldwide store front to push their farmed goods.

 

[Teknoman]

Watching the Yogscast review and yeah, I don't see them patching out that first hour+ of complete inanity and the generally idiotic core design choices that invalidate the game for everyone but the most stubborn/patient FF fans. It's a shame, because the game clearly has style going for it, but it's wasted on an absolutely terrible game. Without the branding, it'd die a quick, merciful death.

Whats wrong with the intro to the game? Other things need fixing, sure...but the introduction to the game is just fine.

 

[Londa]

You know who you remind me of? All the people on Brad McQuaid's balls when Vanguard was coming out. Maybe we'll be lucky and you'll admit you were just speaking from your irrational hopes for the game, like most Vanguard fanboys these days, because the state of FF14 is indefensible.

I mean it literally makes Vanguard look good and complete and that was the industry joke until FF14.

and your point is? that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Maybe comment on the review, you know, like everyone else, instead of focusing on a single user.

On topic: I still feel that the reviews have a alternative motive for the most part. That last one with the 13 parts is complete fail. Them always asking where the ! marks are. Complain about CS in a Final Fantasy game is just sad. It shows their ignorance, or the fact that they are trolling.

 

[Gravijah]

Tell us what you think their alternate motive is. And not to "generate hits".

 

[Moobabe]

On topic: I still feel that the reviews have a alternative motive for the most part. That last one with the 13 parts is complete fail. Them always asking where the ! marks are. Complain about CS in a Final Fantasy game is just sad. It shows their ignorance, or the fact that they are trolling.

So if more reviews come out with poor scores will those have ulterior motives as well?

 

[FLEABttn]

and your point is? that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Maybe comment on the review, you know, like everyone else, instead of focusing on a single user.

On topic: I still feel that the reviews have a alternative motive for the most part. That last one with the 13 parts is complete fail. Them always asking where the ! marks are. Complain about CS in a Final Fantasy game is just sad. It shows their ignorance, or the fact that they are trolling.

My point is you refuse to recognize where the game is wrong. I love WoW and have 7 80's and can give you a 10 page essay on where WoW has fucked up. You're refusing to see or acknowledge where FF14 fails, seemingly because you're trying to be contrary.

And if you want me to comment on the reviews, they seem dead on and this game should be burried. Holy shit what a mess.

 

[Painraze]

and your point is? that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Maybe comment on the review, you know, like everyone else, instead of focusing on a single user.

On topic: I still feel that the reviews have a alternative motive for the most part. That last one with the 13 parts is complete fail. Them always asking where the ! marks are. Complain about CS in a Final Fantasy game is just sad. It shows their ignorance, or the fact that they are trolling.

You are the very definition of delusional. My god... :lol

 

[notworksafe]

Someone asked Londa to prove something? This will be the point where she disappears suddenly until the next time she comes to complain about us.

 

[Londa]

So if more reviews come out with poor scores will those have ulterior motives as well?

you can not say that 13 part review isn't a hate feast at the core of it all. They are WoW fans that want to pick on every aspect of the game. I like how you ignored how I commented on complaining about CS in a Final Fantasy game.

 

[Takuan]

Whats wrong with the intro to the game? Other things need fixing, sure...but the introduction to the game is just fine.

It's so poorly paced; so much time wasted walking back and forth with little direction. It feels like it takes forever for a newbie to get rolling.

:lol I'm still watching the Yogscast, I can't believe there are gil farmers in beta! Incredible!

Why do people even bother to address Londa at this point? He/she's clearly a huge supporter of Final Fantasy, so why waste your time? You're better off pretending he/she doesn't exist.

 

[Londa]

Tell us what you think their alternate motive is. And not to "generate hits".

Other than the fact that they are fans of a certain MMO and want to prove its superior to any other MMO, they mainly want to generate hits.

My point is you refuse to recognize where the game is wrong. I love WoW and have 7 80's and can give you a 10 page essay on where WoW has fucked up. You're refusing to see or acknowledge where FF14 fails, seemingly because you're trying to be contrary.

And if you want me to comment on the reviews, they seem dead on and this game should be burried. Holy shit what a mess.

Never said FFXIV doesn't have flaws. I just don't harp on them every chance possible like some of you guys do.

 

[TheExodu5]

My point is you refuse to recognize where the game is wrong. I love WoW and have 7 80's and can give you a 10 page essay on where WoW has fucked up. You're refusing to see or acknowledge where FF14 fails, seemingly because you're trying to be contrary.

I would be interested in reading this 10 page essay.

 

[Torquill]

My point is you refuse to recognize where the game is wrong. I love WoW and have 7 80's and can give you a 10 page essay on where WoW has fucked up. You're refusing to see or acknowledge where FF14 fails, seemingly because you're trying to be contrary.

And if you want me to comment on the reviews, they seem dead on and this game should be burried. Holy shit what a mess.

Can you pm me that essay? Ilve never had time to get into WoW and all I ever hear are the good things. I'm curious

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I'm watching the GS review and for some reason the game's insane tedious inventory system and laborious questing reminds me of Monster Hunter.

Do you think Square-Enix developed this game more catered toward Japanese gamers? I have a feeling this will be a success over there.

 

[FLEABttn]

As a New Mexican, I'm willing to dig up that Atari 2600 ET burial site to add FF14 to it. We will then cover it with additional concrete in hopes it doesn't just crawl back and and jump into someone's DVD drive.

 

[FLEABttn]

Can you pm me that essay? Ilve never had time to get into WoW and all I ever hear are the good things. I'm curious

I'd actually have to write it first but if you want a quick back of the envelope list as to where I think Blizz has gone wrong, I'd be more than happy to.

 

[notworksafe]

I would be interested in reading this 10 page essay.

Check out the 2 WoW threads...the bitching in there is endless. :lol

 

[Mister Zimbu]

you can not say that 13 part review isn't a hate feast at the core of it all. They are WoW fans that want to pick on every aspect of the game. I like how you ignored how I commented on complaining about CS in a Final Fantasy game.

Please provide real evidence that they gave them a bad review because they want to trash it for not being WoW, and not because the game is terrible, unfinished, and broken (which it is).

They gave the game a bad review because they didn't think the game was good :lol! Like most people in this thread and most people that have played it.

 

[Torquill]

You know who you remind me of? All the people on Brad McQuaid's balls when Vanguard was coming out. Maybe we'll be lucky and you'll admit you were just speaking from your irrational hopes for the game, like most Vanguard fanboys these days, because the state of FF14 is indefensible.

I mean it literally makes Vanguard look good and complete and that was the industry joke until FF14.

Oh Brad....

I wouldn't say it makes VG look good. They are about the same except FF has a decent visual style and VG had a reasonable interface. The diff will be SE has the funds for life support.

 

[Ferrio]

Other than the fact that they are fans of a certain MMO and want to prove its superior to any other MMO, they mainly want to generate hits.

You're delusional. You're lucky they're even doing this, it's more press than this game should even get.

 

[FLEABttn]

I wouldn't say it makes VG look good. They are about the same except FF has a decent visual style and VG had a reasonable interface. The diff will be SE has the funds for life support.

Yeah but even Vanguard had quests.

 

[Torquill]

I'd actually have to write it first but if you want a quick back of the envelope list as to where I think Blizz has gone wrong, I'd be more than happy to.

Please do. My professional curiosity is piqued!

 

[Moobabe]

you can not say that 13 part review isn't a hate feast at the core of it all. They are WoW fans that want to pick on every aspect of the game. I like how you ignored how I commented on complaining about CS in a Final Fantasy game.

CS are down to personal preference, and personally I think that it's the laziest form of narrative in videogames - especially when used in such a large volume. So their complaints about cut scenes would be valid, if you like them though? Then not so much - but to defend the use of cut scenes by saying "it's a final fantasy game" is a bit lazy.

I didn't watch the whole of the 13 part videos, I watched a few and it reinforced things that I saw with my time with the game. A hate fest? Sure, they didn't like it and it's clear they didn't - at least they sat down and spent a decent amount of time with the game to articulate WHY they didn't like it.

 

[RainbowByte]

Never said FFXIV doesn't have flaws. I just don't harp on them every chance possible like some of you guys do.

That ffxiv defense force job has you working double overtime instead:lol

 

[Gravijah]

Other than the fact that they are fans of a certain MMO and want to prove its superior to any other MMO, they mainly want to generate hits.

If someone wants to generate hits, wouldn't they like... give it a good review? Since everyone else is giving it shit reviews? Who's gonna click on a random bad score when there's 50 others?

 

[Londa]

CS are down to personal preference, and personally I think that it's the laziest form of narrative in videogames - especially when used in such a large volume. So their complaints about cut scenes would be valid, if you like them though? Then not so much - but to defend the use of cut scenes by saying "it's a final fantasy game" is a bit lazy.

I didn't watch the whole of the 13 part videos, I watched a few and it reinforced things that I saw with my time with the game. A hate fest? Sure, they didn't like it and it's clear they didn't - at least they sat down and spent a decent amount of time with the game to articulate WHY they didn't like it.

You are slow. Expect a CS in a Final Fantasy game. And not just one CS but a bunch of them. Don't like it? Don't play the series as many have done because they dislike CS.

 

[Teknoman]

I'm watching the GS review and for some reason the game's insane tedious inventory system and laborious questing reminds me of Monster Hunter.

Do you think Square-Enix developed this game more catered toward Japanese gamers? I have a feeling this will be a success over there.

The inventory and quest system really arent tedious or laborious though. Most of the normal quests in XIV as things are now: Go to crystal/ gate, activate quest, defend/destroy objective, get reward. Not really labor intensive in the least bit. The main issue with quests is that there arent that many of them aside from levequests (normal fights, faction leves gained from reputiation, crafting or gathering quests) those behest skirmishes, story quests every 5 class ranks, and class specific quests gained from guilds.

The only thing wrong with the inventory system: No auto-sort or sort function of any kind. However, it seems like the loot system lets anyone in the party have a copy of the item dropped...unless it's obtained from a chest.

 

[Torquill]

CS are down to personal preference, and personally I think that it's the laziest form of narrative in videogames - especially when used in such a large volume. So their complaints about cut scenes would be valid, if you like them though? Then not so much - but to defend the use of cut scenes by saying "it's a final fantasy game" is a bit lazy.

I didn't watch the whole of the 13 part videos, I watched a few and it reinforced things that I saw with my time with the game. A hate fest? Sure, they didn't like it and it's clear they didn't - at least they sat down and spent a decent amount of time with the game to articulate WHY they didn't like it.

Oh you hit my button. High quality cs are very hard, not lazy. They have a place. Sales prove that. No, they don't push storytelling techniques that are unique to games, bit that isn't a requirement to be a valid technique. People enjoy them.

You can dislike them, but complaining about cs in a ff game is like complaigning that you're forced to shoot things in a Doom game. (not a perfect simile but it's the best I have on short notice. )

 

[Moobabe]

You are slow. Expect a CS in a Final Fantasy game. And not just one CS but a bunch of them. Don't like it? Don't play the series as many have done because they dislike CS.

I'm slow? What mentally? At typing? At responding to you? I can assure it's probably the latter - I DO expect cut scenes in a final fantasy game - I didn't say I had a problem with them in this game - I don't like them as a method of communication more generally.

Oh you hit my button. High quality cs are very hard, not lazy. They have a place. Sales prove that. No, they don't push storytelling techniques that are unique to games, bit that isn't a requirement to be a valid technique. People enjoy them.

You can dislike them, but complaining about cs in a ff game is like complaigning that you're forced to shoot things in a Doom game. (not a perfect simile but it's the best I have on short notice. )

I'll rephrase - I think there is a place for them in games - however only when done right and, due to their frequency - I think they lose their impact. I don't know if you can "prove" the relevance of cut scenes because of sales, I don't know how you would ever link the two. Half Life doesn't have cut scenes and I think they do ok.

And I'm NOT complaining about them in FF games. I never made that complaint - Londa was complaining because that was one of the complaints in the 13 part "criticism" of the game.