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[Khrno]

I suppose you'd be okay if the

Spoiler

graphics and

battle system were the same as FF1? After all it's unfair to have higher expectations for a new game, right?

Dragon Quest and Pokemon are 2 examples where the battle systems are very similar from game to game (and I'm talking about the graphics since this don't apply to FF games), so I don't see anything wrong with that.

Eitherway I don't see the point of bringing up the battle system when it is actually good in XIV, great combination and use of skills, with a good speed and pace of battles, obviously it needs tweaks in the targeting for spells (leaving aside class balance since that's an issue that goes through the lifespan of these games).

 

[Nirolak]

GameSpy 2/5: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/square-enix-next-gen-mmorpg/1127142p1.html

Seems pretty across the board 4/10.

IGN is the notable exception, but it's not like a 5.5 is much better. :lol

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

GameSpy 2/5: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/square-enix-next-gen-mmorpg/1127142p1.html

Seems pretty across the board 4/10.

IGN is the notable exception, but it's not like a 5.5 is much better. :lol

all the editors of these websites are wow fanboys

 

[Swag]

This Thread :lol

 

[Regulus Tera]

Sucks for you. But let me tell you what you can get done in 2 hours in this game: either complete the first main quest which involves all those "boring" cutscenes, which certainly aren't, and have some interesting story and start showing some of the main NPCs for each nation. Or you can get a class to rank 10 through leves and an maybe a few extra mobs for normal grinding, then as being rank 10 you would have access to more story quests, money so you can gear up, change classes, craft, or just do more leves.

Anyway, it's because of people of you like FFXI will remain like the best most underrated game ever, well one of the best, since I'm sure there must be a few more like it around.

Oh, and MMOs aren't about their first 2 hours, thaqt's why you get a month free on most of them (or free trials), so you can go past the first 10 levels and see more than what these idiotic reviewers showed.

Sucks for you. But let me tell you what you can get done in 2 hours in this game: either complete the first main quest which involves all those "boring" cutscenes, which certainly aren't, and have some interesting story and start showing some of the main NPCs for each nation. Or you can get a class to rank 10 through leves and an maybe a few extra mobs for normal grinding, then as being rank 10 you would have access to more story quests, money so you can gear up, change classes, craft, or just do more leves.

Anyway, it's because of people of you like FFXI will remain like the best most underrated game ever, well one of the best, since I'm sure there must be a few more like it around.

Oh, and MMOs aren't about their first 2 hours, thaqt's why you get a month free on most of them (or free trials), so you can go past the first 10 levels and see more than what these idiotic reviewers showed.

I can live without MMOs, MMOs can live without me.

It's worked for both of us so far.

 

[Khrno]

Or you could spend two hours searching the wards for shards. Or you could spend to hours grinding the same mobs for shards. Or you could spend 45 min walking from Grid to Limsa to do those extra leves. Or you could spend two hours making the same thing to gain one level.

Yes, indeed you could, but why the hell would you do that during the first 2 hours of gameplay? Which is what he was talking about and I was replying to?

He can always do that in hours 3 and 4, but I don't see the point at all during hours 1 and 2.

 

[notworksafe]

Those aren't the same sorts of expectations, though. I'm not saying devs should ignore past experience. I'm saying that the players shouldn't even consider these things when evaluating the game. It's simply up to us players to decide whether we enjoy the game or not. That's it. And when deciding when one enjoys an MMO or not, he or she should look at it from the perspective of a long-term ever-changing game. FFXI started out like this yet offered a thoroughly enjoyable game in the long-term, so why are people thinking this won't?

If you went out and said Super Mario Galaxy was a better game than Super Mario Bros. you'd have a legion of people lining up to debate that with you or at least staunchly disagree.

It's not that people think it won't improve...it's that they think that these problems that have already been solved by S-E and other MMO devs shouldn't even be issues in the first place.

It's obvious now that an AH or at least a searchable market for an MMO with a heavy focus on crafting and player economy should be a no brainer. Yet its not in. It should be obvious that tutorials will help the supposed casual target audience, yet they are mostly non-existant. It should be obvious that players should be able to reorganize inventory, but they can't. Players should be able to alt-tab while in fullscreen without crashing the damn game! But they can't! It hurts even more when you are required to go out of the game for so much info, help and tutorials...because the game is sorely lacking.

The fact that someone can say "I think they need to add normal quests" about an MMO in the year 2010 is just crazy.

 

[Dreamwriter]

There the same amount of CS's as FFXI without the first expansion. Which is missions 1 all the way up to the first Dragon plus evil eye fight. (actually I don't know when the Shadow Lord fight was introduced)

You have to continue to rank up to access them. Just like how you have to keep leveling up in FFXI to access things.

You're thinking of only missions. I was talking about how tons of other quests in XI had cutscenes - the normal quests from just talking to the townspeople. Some of those had pretty elaborate cutscenes, sometimes even linking with other, more major quests later on.

 

[TheFatOne]

Yes, indeed you could, but why the hell would you do that during the first 2 hours of gameplay? Which is what he was talking about and I was replying to?

He can always do that in hours 3 and 4, but I don't see the point at all during hours 1 and 2.

If in the two hours he wants to craft he needs shards. Right out of the gate you need shards. You have to get them as soon as you start or you aren't going anywhere. Once you hit lvl 10 you need shards period. You don't have a choice. That is about 2-3 hours in. The thing I was interested the most was crafting. As soon as I got past the beginning cutscenes I had to kill wharf rats and marmots for shards. If you want to craft within the first two hours you need shards period. I started out crafting and quickly learned that I needed shards.

So for my first two hours it was grind for shards.

 

[HK-47]

Nice thread title

 

[Kagari]

@IGN review

I don't listen to reviews at all. I also don't believe IGN to be a good source for information. I've stop going to that site for years.

sigh.
Okay seriously I think you need to just leave the thread or something. Final Fantasy's biggest fans tend to be in agreement about these reviews except you... and that's fine! But continuing to defend it in this thread is accomplishing absolutely nothing.

 

[notworksafe]

Eitherway I don't see the point of bringing up the battle system when it is actually good in XIV, great combination and use of skills, with a good speed and pace of battles, obviously it needs tweaks in the targeting for spells (leaving aside class balance since that's an issue that goes through the lifespan of these games).

Please learn to read the post before responding. I wasn't criticizing the graphics or battle system.

I was criticizing the idea that having higher expectations for a game released in 2010 as opposed to one in 2002 is somehow unreasonable.

 

[Londa]

You're thinking of only missions. I was talking about how tons of other quests in XI had cutscenes - the normal quests from just talking to the townspeople. Some of those had pretty elaborate cutscenes, sometimes even linking with other, more major quests later on.

Atm, there are no quest in the game. I don't know if there will be any or not. I really hope we get some. I miss having quests.

 

[LowParry]

The beginning of the game does throw you into a learning curve and it does make you figure some things out, but that's not bad game design. There are lots of people who have seen ways in which this leads to a more rewarding long-term experience. (FFXI) Say what you want about FFXI's design, but it has been a very successful venture for SE and there are many out there who consider it one of the most brilliant RPGs ever made.

There's your problem. Vets of XI see the game for what it is. New people being a tossed a stupid learning curve turns the player off and they don't give a crap about the game afterwards. SE has said time and time again they want the game to appeal to the casual player. Well, they gone and fucked up that concept right from the start.

 

[HappyBivouac]

It's not that people think it won't improve...it's that they think that these problems that have already been solved by S-E and other MMO devs shouldn't even be issues in the first place.

It's obvious now that an AH or at least a searchable market for an MMO with a heavy focus on crafting and player economy should be a no brainer. Yet its not in. It should be obvious that tutorials will help the supposed casual target audience, yet they are mostly non-existant. It should be obvious that players should be able to reorganize inventory, but they can't. Players should be able to alt-tab while in fullscreen without crashing the damn game! But they can't! It hurts even more when you are required to go out of the game for so much info, help and tutorials...because the game is sorely lacking.

The fact that someone can say "I think they need to add normal quests" about an MMO in the year 2010 is just crazy.

I agree with you totally. The game sucks right now and it's a sad, disappointing launch for me. I only take issue with the people and reviews that imply that because the game sucks right now, it always will. It's just a foolish and irrational way to think.

I see tons of potential for this game once they get the basic functionality in that it currently lacks, etc. Having played FFXI for over 6 years I've seen the kinds of leaps and bounds they can make to turn an iffy game into an amazing experience.

If the game ends up flopping totally in the long-run, I'll eat my hat, though I might secretly attribute it to the impatience and irrationality of today's gamer and today's gaming press.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Nice thread title

Nirolak's eventually going to run out of space.

I guess he'll have to do with posting the metacritic score.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

I agree with you totally. The game sucks right now and it's a sad, disappointing launch for me. I only take issue with the people and reviews that imply that because the game sucks right now, it always will. It's just a foolish and irrational way to think.

I see tons of potential for this game once they get the basic functionality in that it currently lacks, etc. Having played FFXI for over 6 years I've seen the kinds of leaps and bounds they can make to turn an iffy game into an amazing experience.

If the game ends up flopping totally in the long-run, I'll eat my hat, though I might secretly attribute it to the impatience and irrationality of today's gamer and today's gaming press.

Then don't release a fucking unfinished product!

 

[Dreamwriter]

There's your problem. Vets of XI see the game for what it is. New people being a tossed a stupid learning curve turns the player off and they don't give a crap about the game afterwards. SE has said time and time again they want the game to appeal to the casual player. Well, they gone and fucked up that concept right from the start.

I don't see any large learning curve. The game tells you what to do at all points at the beginning, and even explains combat stance and equipping abilities and everything. The only important thing I can think of that it doesn't even mention is how to Return from death. What the game doesn't explicitly tell you, the instruction manual covers (I'm surprised by how many people don't even glance at the keyboard chart in the instructions).

 

[notworksafe]

I agree with you totally. The game sucks right now and it's a sad, disappointing launch for me. I only take issue with the people and reviews that imply that because the game sucks right now, it always will. It's just a foolish and irrational way to think.

I see tons of potential for this game once they get the basic functionality in that it currently lacks, etc. Having played FFXI for over 6 years I've seen the kinds of leaps and bounds they can make to turn an iffy game into an amazing experience.

If the game ends up flopping totally in the long-run, I'll eat my hat, though I might secretly attribute it to the impatience and irrationality of today's gamer and today's gaming press.

In the end, reviews have to get out for games. Reviewers (and players) can only deal with what Square gives them.

Over and over in the Alpha/Beta threads on here and on the official Beta forums people were saying that Square need to delay this game because a poor MMO launch hurts much more now than it did in 2001/2002 and they would get savaged, tarnishing the game's rep for years.

Well...look what happened. :lol

 

[hamchan]

Is this the same team that made FFXI?
They don't have an excuse that this game turned out so bad then, considering how much experience they have.

 

[Kagari]

Nirolak's eventually going to run out of space.

I guess he'll have to do with posting the metacritic score.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/final-fantasy-xiv-online 57 right now

 

[HappyBivouac]

Then don't release a fucking unfinished product!

I agree. I was right up there saying they oughtta release the PC and PS3 versions in March, or hell even later if they had to. They should've known if they wanted this to be a long-term moneymaker like FFXI was they'd need the best launch possible. The MMO market is entirely different than it was in 2002, and a good launch is now essential if you're looking for big numbers. This doesn't reflect my attitude, but I have an unusual (unhealthy?) amount of patience. I just hope that the game lives long enough to get off the ground and see its potential realized, because I know it's there.

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/final-fantasy-xiv-online 57 right now

it should drop since ign and gamespy aren't inputted yet

 

[Kintaro]

Then don't release a fucking unfinished product!

No offense, but this phrase is really meaningless for a MMO. A MMO is never finished. Therefore, day one or year five, it is always unfinished.

 

[notworksafe]

I agree. I was right up there saying they oughtta release the PC and PS3 versions in March, or hell even later if they had to. They should've known if they wanted this to be a long-term moneymaker like FFXI was they'd need the best launch possible. The MMO market is entirely different than it was in 2002, and a good launch is now essential if you're looking for big numbers. I just hope that the game lives long enough to get off the ground and see its potential realized because I know it's there.

It will, don't worry about that. It's just a bummer because the bad press its getting now could have been easily avoided. It will probably end up like FFXI, a great game in a few years that 150K people play but no one else cares about.

No offense, but this phrase is really meaningless for a MMO. A MMO is never finished. Therefore, day one or year five, it is always unfinished.

Don't be pedantic. In case I need to explain it to you, "finished" in this case means "ready for launch". The points I outlined above cover the basics pretty well. AH, UI, alt+tab, inventory, quests, content, tutorials, etc.

 

[TheFatOne]

I don't see any large learning curve. The game tells you what to do at all points at the beginning, and even explains combat stance and equipping abilities and everything. The only important thing I can think of that it doesn't even mention is how to Return from death. What the game doesn't explicitly tell you, the instruction manual covers (I'm surprised by how many people don't even glance at the keyboard chart in the instructions).

The game doesn't tell you shit when you start. They tell you one or two things but for the most part you have to figure out everything by yourself.

 

[HappyBivouac]

Is this the same team that made FFXI?
They don't have an excuse that this game turned out so bad then, considering how much experience they have.

It didn't "turn out" so bad. An MMO doesn't "turn out" anything until you have a good handle on what its continual post-launch development is going to be like. But yeah it's bad at the moment and there are some idiotic decisions in there for sure.

It will, don't worry about that. It's just a bummer because the bad press its getting now could have been easily avoided. It will probably end up like FFXI, a great game in a few years that 150K people play but no one else cares about.

As long as it gets continuing support on roughly the same level FFXI did, I'll be ecstatic.

 

[APZonerunner]

Now, I am all for reviewing MMOs a month or more after release, but are you saying the reason you haven't written a review yet is because SquareEnix specifically told you not to? Why would you bend over backwards like that?

Because it's an MMO? Because I have a good, cordial relationship with their PR people? Because I want to give the game a fair crack of the whip? I'm more than happy to honor their request and give the game a chance to improve some? The game's pretty fucking busted, but at the same time I wasn't going to boot up the game, see that it suffers from the same issues as the Beta and start writing up a venom-filled review. It deserves a few weeks to see what happens. Cataclysm will get the same treatment, though judging by the quality of that Beta they have less to worry about.

Thing is, I wouldn't have reviewed the game until around two weeks after launch anyway. I've decided to give them a little bit extra on top because of their request, though, as it was indicated to me there may be large patches fairly close to launch. Even if there were significant patches, the game would be thoroughly dressed-down in the review for failing to launch properly.

There's a lot of things to balance here, but believe me when I say I'm not bending over for anyone, and I think that'll be proved by the review, as it isn't going to be very pretty. These things are give and take, though. They didn't demand we do anything. It was a suggestion and a request, and a reasonable one. I was more than happy to oblige, and if I'm going to give their game a 3 or a 4 out of 10 they can then at least look at my in-game timer, stats and level and see that I did give the final code more than enough of my time and a fair crack of the whip.

The flip side of this shit, of course, is like that Eurogamer review of an MMO a while back where they scored it badly and the developer came out and dragged the in-game stats of their reviewer out of the system and found that they'd (allegedly) only spent about 3 hours on the game or something. You have to give these things time.

Was that the only reason given by them? Not like to at least see more of the game than just the first 10 ranks of a given class too?

The reasoning was "to give the game a chance to mature" and to "allow for any late bugfixes or tweaks", which is fair enough. I think this is less about seeing more of the game/levelling up to higher skills, as all press were in the Alpha and the Open and Closed betas, and so in theory have seen a decent chunk of stuff through levelling up there.

I was really just offering up the explanation that reviews have actually been requested to hold off some officially. Floodgates should open this week or next.

 

[Nirolak]

Nirolak's eventually going to run out of space.

I guess he'll have to do with posting the metacritic score.

I think at this point we've established that GameSpot isn't just an outlier or fishing for hits, so it should be alright.

 

[hamchan]

It didn't "turn out" so bad. An MMO doesn't "turn out" anything until you have a good handle on what its continual post-launch development is going to be like. But yeah it's bad at the moment and there are some idiotic decisions in there for sure.



As long as it gets continuing support on roughly the same level FFXI did, I'll be ecstatic.

Ok then, the launch turned out bad compared to some other popular MMO launches.

 

[notworksafe]

As long as it gets continuing support on roughly the same level FFXI did, I'll be ecstatic.

A lot of the XI hardcore will switch over once S-E stops supporting that game. It's just that right now XI is a more fleshed out and well-formed game (not surprisingly).

I think at this point we've established that GameSpot isn't just an outlier or fishing for hits, so it should be alright.

Maybe YOU have! I see them as part of the vast Western conspiracy against this game! :lol

 

[Khrno]

Please learn to read the post before responding. I wasn't criticizing the graphics or battle system.

I was criticizing the idea that having higher expectations for a game released in 2010 as opposed to one in 2002 is somehow unreasonable.

I did see that, but why draw the comparisons with two of the strong points of the game? Unless you believe that neither are up to 2010 standards.

 

[notworksafe]

I did see that, but why draw the comparisons with two of the strong points of the game? Unless you believe that neither are up to 2010 standards.

Because they are the two most shining features of this game. That and I was purposely being outlandish to show the silliness of his point.

I feel like I'm trying to explain a joke here...but let's try. He said that we shouldn't have higher expectations for a game released in 2010. I suggested that if that was the case then the graphics/battle system could be at the same level as FF1 and he wouldn't be disappointed because he wouldn't have had higher expectations for this game than for FF1.

 

[TacticalFox88]

But is it worse than FFXIII?

 

[Wallach]

But is it worse than FFXIII?

Yeah.

 

[markot]

That cheat code central review is nonsensical >.< whys it even counted?

84 (Great Score!)
We can't recommend that you spend $50, and then $12.99 a month after the first 30 days, on a title that has as many flaws as FFXIV does. But we can recommend that you keep an eye on the news to see how this game evolves. (But dont buy it loooooool!)

>.>

 

[notworksafe]

Best score ever for a game they are recommending not to buy.

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

That cheat code central review is nonsensical >.< whys it even counted?

84 (Great Score!)
We can't recommend that you spend $50, and then $12.99 a month after the first 30 days, on a title that has as many flaws as FFXIV does. But we can recommend that you keep an eye on the news to see how this game evolves. (But dont buy it loooooool!)

>.>

they reviewed SSX(PS2 launch title if i'm not mistaken)

on October 11, 2010 and gave it a 100.

Yeah.

(i'm not bashing the game as I loved the hell out of the game, but wtf?)

 

[JWong]

That cheat code central review is nonsensical >.< whys it even counted?

84 (Great Score!)
We can't recommend that you spend $50, and then $12.99 a month after the first 30 days, on a title that has as many flaws as FFXIV does. But we can recommend that you keep an eye on the news to see how this game evolves. (But dont buy it loooooool!)

>.>

Obligatory...

 

[notworksafe]

nm beaten

 

[Mandoric]

If in the two hours he wants to craft he needs shards. Right out of the gate you need shards. You have to get them as soon as you start or you aren't going anywhere. Once you hit lvl 10 you need shards period. You don't have a choice. That is about 2-3 hours in. The thing I was interested the most was crafting. As soon as I got past the beginning cutscenes I had to kill wharf rats and marmots for shards. If you want to craft within the first two hours you need shards period. I started out crafting and quickly learned that I needed shards.

So for my first two hours it was grind for shards.

Arguments like this are why it's so easy to fall in the habit of defending the game. :lol Your crafting dailies not only give all the shards necessary to run themselves, but also provide more shards as rewards.

 

[dimb]

they reviewed SSX(PS2 launch title if i'm not mistaken)

on October 11, 2010 and gave it a 100.

Yeah.

(i'm not bashing the game as I loved the hell out of the game, but wtf?)

That is the correct score for SSX.

 

[markot]

Obligatory...

lol

It might not be a good game, BUT ITS IMPORTANTTTTTT!!!!!

 

[Khrno]

I feel like I'm trying to explain a joke here...but let's try.

Oh, sorry, and thanks. Too tired to read wall of text, so just saw your comment.

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

That is the correct score for SSX.

yeah I would have said the same thing when the game originally came out 10 years ago.

As of right now, it's a pretty shitty snowboarding game if you compare it to other games in the genre.

 

[notworksafe]

Oh, sorry, and thanks. Too tired to read wall of text, so just saw your comment.

It's all good!

 

[HK-47]

they reviewed SSX(PS2 launch title if i'm not mistaken)

on October 11, 2010 and gave it a 100.

Yeah.

(i'm not bashing the game as I loved the hell out of the game, but wtf?)

That must mean Tricky was like 150

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

That must mean Tricky was like 150

over 9000/10

that is one of the few games I still own to this day from early ps2 era age

 

[Technosteve]

Metacritic user reivews is a 4.2

 

[Effect]

Added links to the GameSpy and IGN reviews to the opening post with some quotes from them.