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Final Fantasy XIV Reviews - GameSpot 4/10, GameTrailers 4.2/10, GameSpy 2/5, IGN 5.5

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notworksafe

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Explain to someone who hasn't played that much WoW for awhile what it changes?
Don't really want to spam up this topic more but check out http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2010-Patch-4.0.1-on-live-servers-this-week for an in-depth rundown of the big changes.

tl;dr: Everything is changing. Talents, glyphs, spells, leveling, guild stuff, UI. Everything mechanics-wise is changing.

Just come by the WoW topic in the Online Forum as well if you have any more questions. We don't bite! :D
 
HappyBivouac said:
My main issue with a lot of recent MMOs, with WoW at the forefront, is just how feasible it is to simply spam and repeat a rotation of skills. That shit would never fly in FFXI... well, unless you played MNK or SAM or something, which still wouldn't be a skill rotation but certainly just as mindless if not moreso.

Yeah it wouldn't fly because MNK's, SAM's and any other DD wouldn't be meleeing in the first place. SAM's would be spamming meditate and using their TP only before getting out of range to prevent massive TP gain from the mob. That is unless you're doing something like TP burning Kirin which has been almost made obsolete in terms of drops and was a joke at 75. Probably even a bigger joke now at 85.

Even then most content when I last subbed (after first abyseea content hit) almost everything end game was tp burned. Including *gasp* Absolute Virtue using the Alexander's Perfect Defense is tp burned to my knowledge.
 

Bisonian

Member
Zefah said:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html

Are these the patch notes for the patch you're talking about? When do they go live. They sounds pretty fucking cool.

Supposedly one hour from now the servers are going live. (3:00p eastern) I think we all know how that works out though.

If you want an overview of everything being added the front page of www.mmo-champion.com is a pretty good place to browse it all. Those notes don't begin to cover it.

And now... back to our regularly scheduled FF XIV flogging.

e: Beaten like a mule. People love their WoW!
e2: 5:00p eastern now. Surprise!
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Bisonian said:
Supposedly one hour from now the servers are going live. (3:00p eastern) I think we all know how that works out though.

If you want an overview of everything being added the front page of www.mmo-champion.com is a pretty good place to browse it all. Those notes don't begin to cover it.

And now... back to our regularly scheduled FF XIV flogging.

e: Beaten like a mule. People love their WoW!
e2: 5:00p eastern now. Surprise!

I might just have to resubscribe to WoW, then. Those changes sound really great... and new water shaders!
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
What are the odds square takes this criticism to heart and updates/refuckingmakes the ui, reworks flawed game mechanics, updates the player based merchanting system?

I mean what's the alternative? If they change, maybe they can salvage the game, as it goes now - it's a money sink.

And an embarassment, I won't even let my girlfriend play this with me because its so bad.
 

Sophia

Member
Zefah said:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html

Are these the patch notes for the patch you're talking about? When do they go live. They sounds pretty fucking cool.

That doesn't even have all the changes, amusingly. Blizzard tends to shorten their patch notes for the major game changing patches.

Also, anyone who hasn't seen WoW's more recent boss battles should check out videos of Ulduar, or the hard modes of ICC. While I tend to nag on Blizzard for ICC overall, they're damn good at making complex boss battles.

Kinitari said:
What are the odds square takes this criticism to heart and updates/refuckingmakes the ui, reworks flawed game mechanics, updates the player based merchanting system?

Honestly, from past FFXI experiences, I don't expect them to do any such changes, and even if they do, it's probably too late for most people. The damage has been done.
 

Xilium

Member
Kinitari said:
What are the odds square takes this criticism to heart and updates/refuckingmakes the ui, reworks flawed game mechanics, updates the player based merchanting system?

I mean what's the alternative? If they change, maybe they can salvage the game, as it goes now - it's a money sink.

And an embarassment, I won't even let my girlfriend play this with me because its so bad.

Very likely as it is my understanding they addressed most of the complaints for XI in relatively short order.

Edit:
Marrshu said:
Honestly, from past FFXI experiences, I don't expect them to do any such changes, and even if they do, it's probably too late for most people. The damage has been done.

Really? A lot of XI players have been saying the SE did a relatively good job at addressing their complaints, especially those between the Japanese and western releases.

I didn't play XI for that long so I don't know.
 
Pejo said:
I've finally figured out that FFXIV is really just an expensive marketing campaign to get people back in to FFXI. (or other MMOs).
It's working. I'm about to go pick up XI right now since its only $10. My PC can apparently run XIV, but I think it's best to just wait on that one.
 
Kinitari said:
What are the odds square takes this criticism to heart and updates/refuckingmakes the ui, reworks flawed game mechanics, updates the player based merchanting system?

I mean what's the alternative? If they change, maybe they can salvage the game, as it goes now - it's a money sink.

And an embarassment, I won't even let my girlfriend play this with me because its so bad.

Go see the timeline on FFXI. The game was hardly comparable 3 months after it came out.
 

Sophia

Member
Xilium said:
Really? A lot of XI players have been saying the SE did a relatively good job at addressing their complaints, especially those between the Japanese and western releases.

I didn't play XI for that long so I don't know.

They address immediate issues, yeah, but they rarely go beyond that. I'd imagine they may make some UI improvements, get a mail system in, and get a functional AH, but not much beyond that. I don't expect them to say, fix the UI lag, or fix the copy paste environments, or bring the grind down to acceptable levels, or such.

At any rate, I won't be there to experience it. The problems have pretty much turned me off from the game entirely, moreso with Cataclysm and Guild Wars 2 on the horizon. It would take universal praise from a site like NeoGAF for me to even think about it again.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Marrshu said:
That doesn't even have all the changes, amusingly. Blizzard tends to shorten their patch notes for the major game changing patches.

Is there anywhere I can find a more detailed list?
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
Seriously, me and the girlfriend played WoW a year ago, and if anything XIV is making me appreciate it more, I wish I could get an update to exactly all the changes since I left, my tier 8.5 probably sucks now - aw well, I'll do as told and check out mmo champion
 
PandaPandaPanda said:
Yeah it wouldn't fly because MNK's, SAM's and any other DD wouldn't be meleeing in the first place. SAM's would be spamming meditate and using their TP only before getting out of range to prevent massive TP gain from the mob. That is unless you're doing something like TP burning Kirin which has been almost made obsolete in terms of drops and was a joke at 75. Probably even a bigger joke now at 85.

Even then most content when I last subbed (after first abyseea content hit) almost everything end game was tp burned. Including *gasp* Absolute Virtue using the Alexander's Perfect Defense is tp burned to my knowledge.

Admittedly, Aht Urhgan and the rise of TP burn was when I started playing a LOT less. CoP boss fights were something of a lass bastion of really strategic and challenging combat in the game, and then just recently they removed the level cap from them. :/
 
Massively.com interview with Sage Sundi and Yasu Kurosawa from New York Comic Con:
http://www.massively.com/2010/10/11/nycc-2010-our-interview-with-ffxivs-sage-sundi-and-yasu-kurosa/

If there were an award for the most controversial game on Massively, that award would probably have to go to Final Fantasy XIV. It's a game with a very different approach to many of the elements that are considered de rigueur for MMOs, which has produced a great deal of affection from some players, a great deal of enmity from others, and a flamewar that burgeons in nearly any thread about even the most innocuous news.

I had a chance to sit down at New York Comic Con with Sage Sundi, FFXIV's global online producer, and Yasu Kurosawa, FFXIV's North American online producer. It was certainly an interesting experience to chat with two of the people responsible in no small part for one of my personal favorite games, but both gentlemen were very polite to discuss the game, its worldwide community, and what lessons had been learned already from launch.

The first thing that both Sundi and Kurosawa made clear was that there were a number of things they could not discuss. When I asked about unlocking Ishgard or Chocobos, Sundi laughed and simply said that it was a secret. Still, it's hard to fault them for keeping some parts of the game under wraps, especially considering Square-Enix's longstanding habit of playing very close to its chest. Sundi would say, however, that improvements were coming and that there would be new features, even though most of them could not be discussed publicly.

The Lodestone site, however, has been a big change from the traditional silence that Square has put forth regarding its games, and both Sundi and Kurosawa reinforced the notion that the site would continue to be a source for data about the game. They do not, however, want to use it as a major community flashpoint, preferring instead to support the fansites and give them the tools for organizing and getting in touch with the community. Rather than trying to moderate an official forum, they prefer to let the community form its own activities, something that they have been very pleased with thus far.

That doesn't, however, mean that they don't hear what the community has been saying. Improvements for both the user interface and control schemes are incoming, as those are currently the most frequently discussed community topics. The development team apparently has a daily meeting with the community managers worldwide; managers from North America, Japan, and the European communities all discuss the most pressing issues facing the game community.

Sundi and Kurosawa both mentioned that while they want to improve the interface on the PC, they also need to make sure that the interface works for both PCs and the PS3, which means that there are limited options for how many changes they can make. Balancing the needs of both systems leads to certain compromises.

For all the complaints about the game's systems, there have been relatively few complaints about the actual mechanics of launch, and Sundi was especially pleased both with how smoothly it went and with the implications for the worldwide reception. Everyone was playing together from the start of the game, and that meant that the community was able to start forming much earlier. There was a comparison made to Final Fantasy XI, which launched years later in North America and as a result had a much larger rift between the player communities, so keeping FFXIV's launch moving smoothly as a worldwide experience was of high importance.

And the complaints about the game are not falling upon deaf ears. The number one complaint that the team has heard is about the user interface, and that is the current top priority for the team. Performance-smoothing is next on the list, followed by content and new features. Each team is working on the game to improve it, and every piece of feedback is being compiled worldwide and taken into account for development.

When asked if he could shed any further light upon the company system, Sundi immediately replied, "Nope," and then laughed. Other popular requests, such as longstanding player classes like summoners or blue mages, were also not up for discussion; all that could be said was that the teams were aware of the requests and wanted to ensure that the game is as true to the Final Fantasy franchise as possible, and that iconic classes have been among the feedback since the alpha.

I asked about the roleplaying community and informed both gentlemen of the current unofficial RP server. They were happy to hear that one had been picked out, and Sundi explained that while they want to support the RP community, they wish to do so in a larger way than simply labeling one server as set for roleplaying. (He drew the comparison to World of Warcraft, where the RP servers frequently do not feature any sort of community enforcement.) Kurosawa made it clear that if an RP linkshell wishes to run a major event, the best option is to get in touch with the GMs and community teams to try to arrange whatever support possible for the event. He also implored roleplaying communities to give their contact information and site details to the community team, so that the staff members could be aware of events and help support the players.

When asked about what they were happy about with the launch, Sundi immediately responded that he was happy at seeing the global community assemble. Kurosawa was thrilled that so many players were happy with the crafting and that players use crafting as an alternate leveling method (rather than leveling just by killing things with weapons). It helped show just how much the armoury system really contributed to the game's appeal.

As a last thought, Kurosawa stressed again that Square-Enix is really doing its best to listen to player voices and communicate everything to the development team. Sundi also stated that the game is still being worked on and improved, but with an eye toward preserving the unique elements that mark it as part of the Final Fantasy series. The game isn't designed to be like World of Warcraft, and the development team is working hard to make it an excellent game on its own merits while allowing it to stand distinct from the crowd.

On behalf of Massively and our Final Fantasy XIV community, I'd like to thank both Sage Sundi and Yasu Kurosawa for their time and responses.

Bolded only a couple parts, as they seemed most relevant to the thread.
 

Vespene

Member
Areas circled on the map depict terrain that has been copy pasted as shown on the screenshots below.

ff40zones.jpg


Oh Square-Enix...

mpsNd.gif
 
We've all noticed the copy paste since early beta. When you're actually playing it doesn't hurt the experience. The landscapes are gorgeous and when it all comes together it's quite varied.

It irked me at first but at the end of the day you have to realize that if we as gamers spent less time trying to criticize games and ultimately just focused on whether we're enjoying them or not, we'd have a much better experience with games in general.

demosthenes said:
This has been known for like 2 weeks now at least, but why does it matter?

It's been obvious since pretty much day one of whenever we got maps in beta. And yeah, it only really matters to people who are just in it to trash the game.
 

twofold

Member
HappyBivouac said:
We've all noticed the copy paste since early beta. When you're actually playing it doesn't hurt the experience. The landscapes are gorgeous and when it all comes together it's quite varied.

It irked me at first but at the end of the day you have to realize that if we as gamers spent less time trying to criticize games and ultimately just focused on whether we're enjoying them or not, we'd have a much better experience with games in general.



It's been obvious since pretty much day one of whenever we got maps in beta. And yeah, it only really matters to people who are just in it to trash the game.

Disagree. I had major deja vu going on whenever I was running around - when I found out that so much of the game was copied and pasted, it explained a lot.

Just because you can dismiss it doesn't mean that others will.
 

Alex

Member
demosthenes said:
This has been known for like 2 weeks now at least, but why does it matter?

Well, all they have is rolling, empty landmass. Their zones have no landmarks or unique detail or anything to really do in them. They basically serve as wallpaper currently.

You figure that since they such a limited spread of them at the moment, and that there's no actual content to go in them, that they would at least have worked to handcraft them better. All of these shortcuts taken are nuts. I mean it's not odd to see some copy/paste in a game, but when you combine them up and to the degrees they're at....

It'd be really amazing to hear just what went wrong during the development of this game. It's like actual development didn't start until six-eight months ago or something and had this deadline in mind when they started it.
 
ZoddGutts said:
Horrible game is horrible what else is new. Anyways looking forward to Guild Wars 2. :D

Always love it when someone decides to jump into a thread just to make dismissive statements while there is actual discussion taking place. :lol
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
HappyBivouac said:
Massively.com interview with Sage Sundi and Yasu Kurosawa from New York Comic Con:

Bolded only a couple parts, as they seemed most relevant to the thread.
Take this with a grain of salt. What are they going to say? That they are ignorant of complaints and they will not work to fix problems the players are having? Of course not. If FFXI is any indication, the patches will be slow to come and take multiple iterations before they get it right.
 

Takuan

Member
Grampasso said:
I've been playing WoW for three years, 2 years endgame.
Stop saying shit.
EDIT: Also, it's not my fault if the game won't let me progress because... the game is utterly broken with bugs or because SE decided that you shouldn't be able to advanze at your pace... that is because this way you'll be forced to play twice the amount of time? That's fucking stupid.
Play like they say and pay like they say? I'm outta it. Lull in your awful unplayable world, I'm beginning the rise to kill Deathwing in 2 months, thanks and bye.
WoW bias confirmed. This isn't WoW, it's FF. I don't know why you would buy the game expecting the same experience as an unrelated game title.

I'm pulling your chain, brother :lol
 

Kandinsky

Member
Alex said:
Well, all they have is rolling, empty landmass. Their zones have no landmarks or unique detail or anything to really do in them. They basically serve as wallpaper currently.
I know its weird but for me this should be their top priority, fix that shit SE!
 

markot

Banned

Sundi and Kurosawa both mentioned that while they want to improve the interface on the PC, they also need to make sure that the interface works for both PCs and the PS3, which means that there are limited options for how many changes they can make. Balancing the needs of both systems leads to certain compromises.


Why they should have split the game up for each platform >.<
 

Mairu

Member
HappyBivouac said:
It irked me at first but at the end of the day you have to realize that if we as gamers spent less time trying to criticize games and ultimately just focused on whether we're enjoying them or not, we'd have a much better experience with games in general.
I hope this is never the case with an MMO. Criticism is what causes the game to evolve and change.
 
HappyBivouac said:
To be perfectly honest, I think this is the key to WoW's success. Being able to send in a tank who will never lose hate and then just spam AoE skills makes you think a lot less than fights that force you to keep on your toes and rethink your strategy as conditions change. People don't want to think too much.

That was only in Wrath of the Lich King, only in heroics within that expansion, and only after gear had inflated a year into the expansion.

Yes, truly the key to WoW's success was making heroics ridiculous AoE fests 5 years into the game during its second expansion.
 
HappyBivouac said:
My main issue with a lot of recent MMOs, with WoW at the forefront, is just how feasible it is to simply spam and repeat a rotation of skills. That shit would never fly in FFXI... .

Just stop talking about stuff you know nothing about :lol

Its pretty obvious that you never played WoW from the way you mouth off about it. Anyone who raided Naxx 60 through Sunwell through Ulduar through even ICC would know better.

Even in BC heroics there was a good deal of strategy that went into going through the dungeon, marking pulls, CCing, assisting, healing; which is why pickup groups failed so badly.

My friend is in a guild that is top 50 worldwide, around 40th in the world to kill the Lich King in heroic 25; he came from FFXI in early 2007, where he was in a top guild also. From what he tells me, the complexity and strategic nature of raids in WoW far outpaces what he experienced in FFXI up to that point.
 

Loto

Member
Atrus said:
So I take it this thread is now about you spamming for WoW now?
Wow, really? He provided a link. It's not like he went into full details about the patch, even in his previous posts.
 
FieryBalrog said:
Just stop talking about stuff you know nothing about :lol

Its pretty obvious that you never played WoW from the way you mouth off about it. Anyone who raided Naxx 60 through Sunwell through Ulduar through even ICC would know better.

Even in BC heroics there was a good deal of strategy that went into going through the dungeon, marking pulls, CCing, assisting, healing; which is why pickup groups failed so badly.

My friend is in a guild that is top 50 worldwide, around 40th in the world to kill the Lich King in heroic 25; he came from FFXI in early 2007, where he was in a top guild also. From what he tells me, the complexity and strategic nature of raids in WoW far outpaces anything ever made in FFXI.
OK, end-game stuff requires intense strategy. What about normal stuff, that people in earlier levels (like in their 20's-30's) run into? FFXI required you start learning how your job interacts with others not long after level 10 (though of course how you played your job changed a couple times after that).
 

Raoh

Member
Mairu said:
I hope this is never the case with an MMO. Criticism is what causes the game to evolve and change.

to a certain degree

or it can cause a job/game/weapon/mob get nerfed/broken further

so many people complained and made demands in ffxi then when se made the changes the jobs and weaps and abilities got nerfed.. all the points you put in dex became useless..

that's the one thing i hated about ffxi.. instead of playing with the many combos and styles available, it became what a group of gamers thought a party make up should be and only allowed that style of play.. its why ninjas were told to sub a warrior and tank leave the damage dealing to someone else or dont invite that beastmaster they suck at parties, damn only a level 57 dark knight available? they suck at that level.. all of it untrue but based on the gamers making those claims you'd swear it was exactly as it was intended to be and that those gamers were devs working on the game telling other gamers how and why they designed it that way..

sometimes what it boils down to is people want to level incredibly fast, they want to get to the end game they want to run through the game and if they cant, for lack of a better term, run and gun through the game it must be broken.. ..


its the little querks that i love about the ff online series. i hated WoW cause it was like a run and gun game.. get class, play through, raid.. done..

especially those that i met on the allakhamzam boards in the past.. some of them would complain about how to play correctly but spent a good amount of time powerleveling themselves and others but had the nerve to tell others to learn how to play..
 

Alex

Member
FieryBalrog said:
Just stop talking about stuff you know nothing about :lol

Its pretty obvious that you never played WoW from the way you mouth off about it. Anyone who raided Naxx 60 through Sunwell through Ulduar through even ICC would know better.

Even in BC heroics there was a good deal of strategy that went into going through the dungeon, marking pulls, CCing, assisting, healing; which is why pickup groups failed so badly.

My friend is in a guild that is top 50 worldwide, around 40th in the world to kill the Lich King in heroic 25; he came from FFXI in early 2007, where he was in a top guild also. From what he tells me, the complexity and strategic nature of raids in WoW far outpaces anything ever made in FFXI.

FFXI is not a game you play to be really earnestly challenged or for any sort of legitimate end game, the tuning and mechanics are very dark ages, usually even moreso than straight Everquest.

There's a lot to like about it, I put like two years into it so that speaks for itself. It has some really cool shit going on, but it's just not that kind of game, the support and design is miserable in that regard. Anyone who says otherwise probably has little to no outside genre experience, which I'm finding to be a recurring theme in these threads.

To me FFXI is (or was, I can't speak for it's current state) more of an experience closer to LOTRO, where it's just rocking different focuses on the journey rather than gaming it out so much. Not to draw any real parallels between the two.

For WoW, it's end game is it's bread and butter, and they have a huge mastery in polish and mechanics over the rest of the MMO genre in end game raiding and tuning, because that's normally where most of the money and focus goes. It's been a long road from the gross bog standard MMO fare of Molten Core to amazing fights like Firefighter Mimiron (<3 best game boss ever for me). Either way it's just a really bad comparison to try to make, IMO.
 

Mairu

Member
Raoh said:
or it can cause a job/game/weapon/mob get nerfed/broken further
This is called balancing the game. It's a process that is never complete in a MMO. It depends on the competence of the developer as to how well or how often it gets done.

so many people complained and made demands in ffxi then when se made the changes the jobs and weaps and abilities got nerfed.. all the points you put in dex became useless..
For a competent developer, any real changes that make something useless or useful would lead to a reallocation of points. This is why in WoW for example, early on, any time major changes were made to talent trees players could freely reallocate their points after a patch.
 

faridmon

Member
The MMO FF Team need to make a proper FF game (with out it being an MMO) I am sure they will defently create an amazing game.

Maybe, making an MMO doesn't suit them.
 

Lain

Member
Dreamwriter said:
OK, end-game stuff requires intense strategy. What about normal stuff, that people in earlier levels (like in their 20's-30's) run into? FFXI required you start learning how your job interacts with others not long after level 10 (though of course how you played your job changed a couple times after that).

All FFXI required was looking at a pic of skill-chains and sitting your ass in a spot from which you never moved, after that you kept doing the same skill-chains over and over while killing the same mob over and over.
 

Vespene

Member
I do like the concept of being able to switch classes by switching weapons, but it needs to be more developed. For example, it doesn't make much sense to me that a mage can turn into a tanking warrior by picking up a sword, but it would be pretty cool if he could turn into another caster class like a priest or something like that. Maybe the classes can be switched with another one that shares the same armor class.
 

LowParry

Member
faridmon said:
The MMO FF Team need to make a proper FF game (with out it being an MMO) I am sure they will defently create an amazing game.

Maybe, making an MMO doesn't suit them.

A shame XIV didn't turn into a stand alone FF game cause a world like that would be very well done. Even by the intro's of each cities, showed a very promising story.
 

Atrus

Gold Member
Loto said:
Wow, really? He provided a link. It's not like he went into full details about the patch, even in his previous posts.

The last several posts have been about or related to WoW in a thread unrelated to it. He even calls it spamming himself, so it wasn't as if I applied the label to it.
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
Lain said:
All FFXI required was looking at a pic of skill-chains and sitting your ass in a spot from which you never moved, after that you kept doing the same skill-chains over and over while killing the same mob over and over.
Maybe 7 years ago. For a long time now, you don't even have to do that. You engage a target and when your TP hits 100+, use your best weapon skill immediately. Repeat for 3 hours.
 

twofold

Member
DaBuddaDa said:
Maybe 7 years ago. For a long time now, you don't even have to do that. You engage a target and when your TP hits 100+, use your best weapon skill immediately. Repeat for 3 hours.

What changed? Do skillchains do less damage nowadays or something?
 

faridmon

Member
CcrooK said:
A shame XIV didn't turn into a stand alone FF game cause a world like that would be very well done. Even by the intro's of each cities, showed a very promising story.
Yeah, the team clearly has the talent to make an excellent RPG. I wish they could hamdle the next FF game without being subjected into the realm of MMO...
 

Atrus

Gold Member
CcrooK said:
A shame XIV didn't turn into a stand alone FF game cause a world like that would be very well done. Even by the intro's of each cities, showed a very promising story.

The story is promising and I have to admit that the special effects and animations are probably the tops of the genre.

The issue of course is that they didn't release the rest of the game apparently and the wait in between is unbearable when you have nothing to do in the meantime.

Just about every log-in is prefaced with "So... did they patch in the actual game yet?". We're playing a shell at the moment, and the grinding for no purpose will wear on people greatly as this drags on.
 
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