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Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood |OT| Y'all Need to Calm Down

What would this actually accomplish? Like, patching them out gains _____ for the people who believe tanks should be VIT4LYFE? VIT doesn't mitigate damage, so healing them takes as many casts as STR tanks, and none of the tank busters in-game have an HP check that's impacted by the right side stuff.

I get that some people want to just stack VIT and that's fine, but I don't get the not wanting other people to have the option.
Letting tanks use 270 str accessories means they're already BiS for the entire expansion. They will remove them eventually. It also encourages awful tanks to stack Str when they can't handle it which is exactly what happened in Gordias and exactly why they switched tank damage to Vit scaling. They will either lock them or they will go back to Vit scaling and clearly they don't like Vit scaling or they wouldn't have changed it back.
 
I'm see this requested a lot. What's the main issue? The fact that they lose the VIT?
The main issue is tank accessories no longer give tanks direct damage, so tanks are being forced to use year old DPS accessories to max out their damage at the cost of a lot of HP because of a stupid change + oversight.
 

Arkeband

Banned
Hopefully removing str accessories for tanks, but I guess they would have changed that already

I'm see this requested a lot. What's the main issue? The fact that they lose the VIT?

FFXIV is not a game that supports "different builds", as much as tanks want to have that freedom. The fact that there are "str tanks" and "vit tanks" is a design failure and needs to be corrected, otherwise they can't create mechanics based around tank health.
 

kromeo

Member
Letting tanks use 270 str accessories means they're already BiS for the entire expansion. They will remove them eventually. It also encourages awful tanks to stack Str when they can't handle it which is exactly what happened in Gordias and exactly why they switched tank damage to Vit scaling. They will either lock them or they will go back to Vit scaling and clearly they don't like Vit scaling or they wouldn't have changed it back.

I think it was probably because they were too lazy to implement the death penalty to tanks without it affecting hp but who knows.. it obviously wasn't their intention for people to keep using old gear though
 

iammeiam

Member
Letting tanks use 270 str accessories means they're already BiS for the entire expansion.

Or--and I acknowledge this is crazy--they could come up with a better solution? The only way 270 STR stays BiS the entire expansion is if they don't do anything else to deal with the problem they've created. If they stay VIT only on the right side, you're realistically looking at scenarios where tanks will generally never be motivated to use non-crafted Fending stuff because crafted gear can have Direct Hit pentamelded to it; Fending gear won't have that or any actual mainstat on it.

They will remove them eventually. It also encourages awful tanks to stack Str when they can't handle it which is exactly what happened in Gordias and exactly why they switched tank damage to Vit scaling. They will either lock them or they will go back to Vit scaling and clearly they don't like Vit scaling or they wouldn't have changed it back.

The bad tank fallacy makes no sense; godawful tanks have terrible CD usage anyway and are garbage to heal regardless. If VIT did anything for mitigation, this would matter, but if I'm having to chain heal a bad tank that won't use CDs properly I'd rather have them in STR since it at least means they're hitting slightly harder.

Like, the actual problem here isn't that tanks can use 270 slaying from what I can tell. It's that they done messed up the entire concept of a tank right side in their knee-jerk reaction to the weakness changes.

FFXIV is not a game that supports "different builds", as much as tanks want to have that freedom. The fact that there are "str tanks" and "vit tanks" is a design failure and needs to be corrected, otherwise they can't create mechanics based around tank health.

Yes, they can? STR tanks will use VIT if the game ever actually puts out something that has an HP-check that requires it. They won't, because requiring VIT-based right side gear to survive a thing would create an artificial gear wall that would bother people, but that is again more about how they design their game and less about VIT. Locking out Slaying is ultimately denying damage to tanks with no actual benefit, because if there was a benefit it wouldn't be such a clearcut 5 slaying right side issue right now.
 

studyguy

Member
Hey guys it turns out capping us at 125STR for an entire expansion was probably a bad idea when DPS will keep scaling even higher unless you want to just forever increase enmity multipliers I guess. But fuck it man, they've got a solution coming up, it's not VIT scaling which worked perfectly fine for literally everyone, it's ....
PLEASE LOOK FORWARD TO IT.
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
If by international you mean from china/korea, then yeah it's standard for mmos to lock regions that have their own version of the game because they sold the rights to publish the games there. Otherwise no idea what you're talking about.

Multiple users from around the world haven't been able to play the game in US servers for the past three days.

Lodestone forums are blowing up with threads about the disconnection issues and SE haven't said a peep about it yet. It's getting really embarrassing.
 

kromeo

Member
0ArGFCK.png


Got my fat ride and butler suit, still no sign of the cloud mount in Europe though..
 

Luminaire

Member
Our tanks are running STR full right side now and it's not as much an issue as I thought it'd be.

Honestly can't they just make STR a primary stat that matches VIT? Gear could have both stats, accessories at least. 150 VIT, 150 STR. Problem solved! Maybe.
 

neoemonk

Member
I was so high on this game two weeks before launch, and now my sub is about to lapse and I haven't played in a week. I didn't even hit max level. I just burned out on it I think.
 

iammeiam

Member
Hey guys it turns out capping us at 125STR for an entire expansion was probably a bad idea when DPS will keep scaling even higher unless you want to just forever increase enmity multipliers I guess. But fuck it man, they've got a solution coming up, it's not VIT scaling which worked perfectly fine for literally everyone, it's ....
PLEASE LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

Short of sucking it up and adding STR to tank right side, we're just in for them trying a bunch of wild patches to force people to use the raid drop tank gear, and the player base in general lolno'ing them.

Like, if they don't, we're heading back to the expectation that all 'serious' tanks figure out how to roll a full crafted right side so they can just meld in oceans of DHit. Right now the tank right side has no main stat, can't roll the best secondary for tanks, and has a high percentage chance of their garbage secondary appearing.
 
What would this actually accomplish? Like, patching them out gains _____ for the people who believe tanks should be VIT4LYFE? VIT doesn't mitigate damage, so healing them takes as many casts as STR tanks, and none of the tank busters in-game have an HP check that's impacted by the right side stuff.

I get that some people want to just stack VIT and that's fine, but I don't get the not wanting other people to have the option.

Tank damage is going to be nerfed again eventually.

I'm considering switching over to a a DPS job as a main since they get a non-neutered playstyle in this game and I got Monster Hunter Generations the other day so I could do hunts while waiting for any long queues that I encounter.
 

scy

Member
Hey guys it turns out capping us at 125STR for an entire expansion was probably a bad idea when DPS will keep scaling even higher unless you want to just forever increase enmity multipliers I guess. But fuck it man, they've got a solution coming up, it's not VIT scaling which worked perfectly fine for literally everyone, it's ....
PLEASE LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

I don't actually understand how they keep failing the tank stat situation. Then again, there's always some stat situation they keep failing so maybe they're just keeping to a trend.

Realistically, they'll probably throw STR on Fending @50% value (e.g, 60 STR on i320) and call it a day. Unless +35 STR over i270 is too big of an increase for them to accept and we end up going into hilarity territory of pentamelded crafted every tier for tanks for minimizing Parry 0.5.
 
Multiple users from around the world haven't been able to play the game in US servers for the past three days.

Lodestone forums are blowing up with threads about the disconnection issues and SE haven't said a peep about it yet. It's getting really embarrassing.
I wonder if there's some routing issues going on because I have been able to play perfectly with mudfish on.
 

iammeiam

Member
Tank damage is going to be nerfed again eventually.

I'm considering switching over to a a DPS job as a main since they get a non-neutered playstyle in this game and I got Monster Hunter Generations the other day so I could do hunts while waiting for any long queues that I encounter.

On the one hand I'd love for one of the LL Q&A questions to essentially be "guys what are you even trying to do with tanks why even give them DPS stances at this point", but on the other we'd probably just get another WHM-style calm down and wait for the patch notes.

I wonder if there's some routing issues going on because I have been able to play perfectly with mudfish on.

There's some conspiracy theory going around that it's potentially related to trying to handle the DDoS stuff. If they are doing something to international traffic, a VPN would make sense as getting around it.
 

Zomba13

Member
I'm playing from the UK on Ultros and not noticed any shttery going on connection wise. There was that time a few days ago where everyone started disconnecting and all that and the occasional 90k in PVP (before the patch) but other than that it's been fine, I've been able to connect and play no problem.
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
On the one hand I'd love for one of the LL Q&A questions to essentially be "guys what are you even trying to do with tanks why even give them DPS stances at this point", but on the other we'd probably just get another WHM-style calm down and wait for the patch notes.



There's some conspiracy theory going around that it's potentially related to trying to handle the DDoS stuff. If they are doing something to international traffic, a VPN would make sense as getting around it.
Multiple players HAVE been able to circumvent the issue with VPNs. Even in this thread.

I'm not going to pay a VPN to be able to access a game I already pay a fucking subscription to. This is inexcusable.
 

EndcatOmega

Unconfirmed Member
I'm playing from the UK on Ultros and not noticed any shttery going on connection wise. There was that time a few days ago where everyone started disconnecting and all that and the occasional 90k in PVP (before the patch) but other than that it's been fine, I've been able to connect and play no problem.

I've come on Ultros a couple of times to shitta- to give constructive criticism to Gryvan and I haven't noticed any issues (other than Ultros somehow having less queues and PFs than Cerebrus even at American primetime). If they're blocking European traffic on purpose they're doing a bad job at it.
 
On the one hand I'd love for one of the LL Q&A questions to essentially be "guys what are you even trying to do with tanks why even give them DPS stances at this point", but on the other we'd probably just get another WHM-style calm down and wait for the patch notes.

I like what TERA did. You didn't stance dance there, since Warrior defensive stance increased defense and aggro generation and didn't affect damage.

Assault stance (used when you are a DPS and not tanking) increased your power and crit, but lowered your defense so you would die if you used it while tanking and got hit.

That sounds bad to a FFXIV tank player but playing in tank stance in TERA was actually fun. It didn't feel like a lesser job at all. It was a lot like playing Monster Hunter in a way, what with watching enemy telegraphs and dodging intelligently.

Unfortunately tanking in TERA and tanking in FFXIV are a complete night and day thing. In order to get anywhere near it they would have to purge all current tank CDs and replace them with interesting things that aren't variations of "reduce X damage taken for X seconds" which will never happen obviously.
 

duckroll

Member
I'm definitely not affected by the foreign IP problem. So it's not some sort of block. Must be a routing issue? Just logged in and did my mini-cactpot. Won 14k! \o/

In other news...

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/d82504e50bab50729ff7eb104ac7e9d71e752890

Show Details

Special Guest
Art director Hiroshi Minagawa will also make an appearance to answer questions from players.

OMG!!! ART DIRECTOR!!! WHAT WILL HE TALK ABOUT? MAYBE....

Questions for Art Director Hiroshi Minagawa
The art director will answer questions relating to the game's UI design.

....oh. :(
 

Berordn

Member
I'm definitely not affected by the foreign IP problem. So it's not some sort of block. Must be a routing issue? Just logged in and did my mini-cactpot. Won 14k! \o/

And I'm in Florida and get the 90002 on random occasion. Routing issue seems likely.
 
I like what TERA did. You didn't stance dance there, since Warrior defensive stance increased defense and aggro generation and didn't affect damage.

Assault stance (used when you are a DPS and not tanking) increased your power and crit, but lowered your defense so you would die if you used it while tanking and got hit.

That sounds bad to a FFXIV tank player but playing in tank stance in TERA was actually fun. It didn't feel like a lesser job at all. It was a lot like playing Monster Hunter in a way, what with watching enemy telegraphs and dodging intelligently.

Unfortunately tanking in TERA and tanking in FFXIV are a complete night and day thing. In order to get anywhere near it they would have to purge all current tank CDs and replace them with interesting things that aren't variations of "reduce X damage taken for X seconds" which will never happen obviously.

How was the tanking in TERA?
 

rubius01

Member
I've come on Ultros a couple of times to shitta- to give constructive criticism to Gryvan and I haven't noticed any issues (other than Ultros somehow having less queues and PFs than Cerebrus even at American primetime). If they're blocking European traffic on purpose they're doing a bad job at it.


Are you Pizza Lawyer now?
 

Danj

Member
tl;dr version: awesome crafting site, got broken by 4.0 changes, need 4.0 crafting data to fix, please help.

So the other day I found this awesome site called FFXIV Crafting Optimizer which helps you create better rotations and ingame macros for crafting stuff.

However, its output is a bit off at the moment due to changes that came in with 4.0. I think I can help the people who wrote it to fix it, but in order to do that I need as MUCH crafting data as possible!

The data needed is as follows:

Crafting class and level
Recipe name and level
Craftsmanship stat (don't forget this changes depending what equipment you have on)
Amount of progress per Basic Synthesis (ensure you aren't affected by any Food bonuses, or any other bonuses to progress that might be granted by other abilities)

Including recipes that are the same level as you is useful, as this gives a levelDifference of zero which effectively eliminates the first term of the progress formula.
Including a variety of recipes that have different level differences and different craftsmanship stats is also useful.

If you're willing and able to provide any of this data please PM me (to avoid cluttering up this thread, which moves pretty quickly anyway so I might miss it if you post here).

 

Chemist

Neo Member
I'm in Oregon and have been getting 90ked at random times as well, most often with duties, and weird rubber banding in duties as well. So I think it's a large issue they are trying to resolve. Probably part of the maint tonight.

Edit: I'm going for the record of longest junior member, 3+ years and counting! Forever junior, junior is love, junior is life.
 
On the one hand I'd love for one of the LL Q&A questions to essentially be "guys what are you even trying to do with tanks why even give them DPS stances at this point", but on the other we'd probably just get another WHM-style calm down and wait for the patch notes.



There's some conspiracy theory going around that it's potentially related to trying to handle the DDoS stuff. If they are doing something to international traffic, a VPN would make sense as getting around it.

The DPS stances is for OT's avoid being in a stanceless position and fall in a weird place like war 2.0.

I don't think the intention is for tanks to be wannabe DPS.
 
The DPS stances is for OT's avoid being in a stanceless position and fall in a weird place like war 2.0.

I don't think the intention is for tanks to be wannabe DPS.
What about the DPS skills then? Why does WAR need the ability to do many Fell Cleaves? Why does PLD get a big self DPS buff and their own version of Fell Cleave? Why does stance dancing have drawbacks like GCD/Mana costs/Gauge costs?

If they didn't want tanks to be wannabe DPS, then don't give them wannabe DPS tools?
 
First clear of Lakshmi sure was interesting. Everyone but one of the tanks and one of the healers were new, so that tank decided that we should pull instantly. They then got extremely pissy when we screwed up, and were in general pretty toxic. Kinda hope the EX version is a little bit more interesting. After the super attack, it feels kinda incomplete.

Now to go spam PotD forever because I got to the level 69 MSQ gate with only about 1/3 of the exp bar filled. o/
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
STR/VIT accessories have absolutely 0 effect on a tank's survivability.
Accessories of any type have 1 (one) point of defense. That's basically none.
Wearing STR accessories does not make your defense go higher therefore does not make you take less damage.
"Bad tanks die faster because they're wearing STR accessories", no, bullshit, that's not how anything in this game works, yes they have less total HP, but healing is about balancing damage and healing speed, the only situation where it'd be a loss is if you're letting tank fall before using Benediction and you're losing a GCD by having to use Benediction earlier and that's a somewhat marginal case that effects only one healing job.
Tanks die faster because they're not playing their job right.
 
STR/VIT accessories have absolutely 0 effect on a tank's survivability.
Accessories of any type have 1 (one) point of defense. That's basically none.
Wearing STR accessories does not make your defense go higher therefore does not make you take less damage.
"Bad tanks die faster because they're wearing STR accessories", no, bullshit, that's not how anything in this game works, yes they have less total HP, but healing is about balancing damage and healing speed, the only situation where it'd be a loss is if you're letting tank fall before using Benediction and you're losing a GCD by having to use Benediction earlier and that's a somewhat marginal case that effects only one healing job.
Tanks die faster because they're not playing their job right.
Yeah, If you're not dealing with HP checks then extra HP is completely irrelevant if tanks and healers are doing their job.
 

Bebpo

Banned
It's not even that one, because I understand that. Although you usually still have time to stack depending on which way you get sent running.

It's the other time the stack marker comes as the same times as some ground AOE's that fan output have gaps between them. People just go nah, fuck you, I'm dodging AOE's, don't care about your stack marker.

Yep, exactly my experience. The latter one is where people don't stack for some reason and why my group never passed V3.
 
What about the DPS skills then? Why does WAR need the ability to do many Fell Cleaves? Why does PLD get a big self DPS buff and their own version of Fell Cleave?

I feel there's a difference between "here some skills, so you can help with certain dps mechanics and output more damage when necessary" and "I need moar dps! 20k crit fell cleavesss yess, give me moar numbers!" mentality from some tanks.

As much as dmg reduction is way more useful than VIT is, dosn't mean HP is not important to survavility. I've seen tanks with already several thousand less HP with STR acc. Those numbers matters and is only going to get worse.
 
I feel there's a difference between "here some skills, so you can help with certain dps mechanics and output more damage when necessary" and "I need moar dps! 20k crit fell cleavesss yess, give me moar numbers!" mentality from some tanks.
When showing off new job skills they made a point to showcase WAR doing 4 Fell Cleaves in a row, they know that and support it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with tanks wanting to do the most damage possible because that also happens to make the jobs more fun to play
 

Wilsongt

Member

Not that unsurprising. There are people in my FC with 2 jobs at 70, and almost completely maxed out gatherers/crafters.

Getting crafts to 70 is easy when you're sitting on a stock pile of a billion gil. And then level up alt jobs is easy if one of them is a tank/healer.
 
When showing off new job skills they made a point to showcase WAR doing 4 Fell Cleaves in a row, they know that and support it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with tanks wanting to do the most damage possible because that also happens to make the jobs more fun to play

What makes tank fun is CD management while stance dancing (it was with war at least), not doing 20k crit instead of 15k..., if I want to see big numbers I'll play SAM.
 
As much as dmg reduction is way more useful than VIT is, dosn't mean HP is not important to survavility. I've seen tanks with already several thousand less HP with STR acc. Those numbers matters and is only going to get worse.
HP is only important if the fight demands it. All you need is enough to survive mechanics. If a tankbuster doesn't kill you then its irrelevant if you have 35k or 55k HP
Warrior mains, how exactly should I be rotating my defensive cooldowns?
Highly depends on the fight.
 
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