Final Fantasy XV SPOILER THREAD

Also I'm not sure how much this actually matters but, she got stabbed. I'd hardly call that brutal. It's the most basic way you can kill somebody.
Brutality isn't really the right word. Ignobility or something similar might be more fitting. The issue being that women seem to more often be killed off in less heroic ways: raped, minced and put in a fridge, murdered while not on their feet, etc. I feel like that's a big part of what Gail Simone was getting at with WiR, the way that "heroines" are cast aside.

Although in regards to brutality, she does have the honor of her corpse hanging from a ceiling like Regis, so I guess there's that. Ultimately though, as I've said before, the issue with Luna isn't whether or not she was fridged. To repeat what I've said before:

If she was fridged, but was still a great (or worthwhile) character, that would be one thing and that would probably be bad enough. Think about the issue of fridging this way: you could say that one of the most famous comic book women, Gwen Stacy was "fridged" for the sake of Peter Parker's narrative progression. You could say that Jenny got fridged in The Darkness, or that Aerith was fridged in FFVII (although Inuhanyou has pointed out before that Aerith might not fit). The key there however is that they're characters that had some amount of depth and history to them, so to some extent, the fridging is actually effective to the viewer. You cared that they died. You cared about who they were and you cared that they were gone.

Compare that reaction to the reaction that Luna's death engenders, where the problem that is that the drama and heartache feel almost wholly unearned because of the narrative progression. We never interact with her, she's primarily seen in flashbacks, very little is explained about the "history" between Noct and her, and little is really said about the upcoming marriage. She died, and many people will be left straining to care.

I've made fun of Jared's death being some silly, emotional hooey, but honestly his death isn't much worse than Luna's. There's hardly any actual investment into either of them, and Luna's death is a very unearned payoff. You can even take the gender-politics issue of fridging and just lay that aside. Even without any gender representational issues, the fundamental issue remains that you absolutely can kill off characters in your story, but you need to put in adequate leg-work to make me give a damn. When Jared died, I wondered why they were all so broken up. When Luna died I actually did feel a little sad, but not for Luna since I didn't give a damn about her, but for Noct who seemed sad because I was invested in him, not her. Otherwise, her death has such a little emotional investment that it just seems completely anticlimactic.

Luna and Jared sort of exemplify a lot of issues with the story. It's not that they are actively a bad inclusion in the game (compared to something like how actively gross Cindy is). They're just kind of "meh," and you can see the potential in the ideas. Again, consider Luna and her role in XV's proceedings. While I wouldn't want a complete rehash, the problem with Luna that we've kind of already seen this type of character before and done better too. It was Yuna. She was strong, dynamic (had some appropriate flaws), and in love with Tidus, but she didn't exist solely for Tidus' sake, which is what Luna seems to be. Yuna existed as more than a simple narrative contrivance to move along the story that appeared for a grand total of maybe fifteen minutes, instead she was an active, visible participant in almost all of the events.

The problem with Luna again is context. Taken on its own, her death might not seem like that if of a deal, but in the context of the overall game's usage of women (and yes it is "usage"), that death seems pretty poorly done.
 
Just finished the story an hour ago and I have a few questions.

Is there a go-to post that explains the clusterfuck of a "story", especially the last third?
Why the fuck was the emperor suddenly a daemon and all we got was a short dialog line mentioning the fact?
Why was there a 10 year gap and why was it not explained? Did I space out and miss something here?
Why couldn't they show badass daemon hunter Iris and older Cidney?
What exactly was Ardyn's deal? I got the gist of it but would have liked a little more info.
Why did Ninjas continuously cut a shit ton of onions during the last strech of the story? Seriously. By the end of the game I was majorly invested in the guys' friendship. Broke my fucking heart to see them at the camp for the last time and then seeing the empty chairs afterwards. Stand by me was also a perfect fit for the credits. Showing the pictures of their adventure was a gut punch on top...

Am I the only one who took a close up of Cidney into the throne room at the end? That final scene with Luna was fucking hilarious with that picture!

Great transition from the final scene into the FFXV logo.

All in all this is a great game that suffered from the long dev time and transition into something new. The story and execution of it felt like a jigsaw puzzle. The first half was too open with too little story and the second half could have used a little more openness between the chapters.
It also felt pretty weird that there was almost no animosity between the crew and the empire guys whenever important characters met. They helped each other more times than they fought against each other.

My three major disappointments are the battle system, the story and especially the lack of different biomes.
The game was always pitched as a road trip but it feels like they spent most of their time driving around a small region. I was hoping the Duscae biome would be one of many but the surrounding regions looked like slight variations of it.

Story wise I thought it was pretty sad that most major plot points were losses. Everyone fucking died. I would have really liked a few more happy moments. The guys had some fun moments but that was never really story related.

To answer some of your questions:

The emperor became a demon because they fucked up or something, turning all of them into demons.

Noctis needed to sleep to gather power.

Iris and Aranea ignored because of Time/Budget

Ardyn was betrayed by his contemporary and the gods after healing the world of the plague. Granted immortality, he sought to destroy the lucian line.
 
Lucklily, you don't get to define those things. Fridging may have a more wide definition, but it also encompasses the Gail Simone original "Women in refrigerators" trope.

Don't know why your taking pot shots at me for just reading the whole definition as explained and not cheery picking quotes to fit how one feels the definition is.

I'd love to continue the conversation and continue to explain why Aerith, Luna, and many other FF characters don't fit under the fridging term you are deeming on them. As I said, from what Gail Simone wrote, they don't fit into that trope. They fit more in line with the Lost Lenore trope, as both of them are more than just a means to help develop other characters. And even then they don't meet every single point in the criteria to be that trope either.
 
Don't know why your taking pot shots at me for just reading the whole definition as explained and not cheery picking quotes to fit how one feels the definition is.

I'd love to continue the conversation and continue to explain why Aerith, Luna, and many other FF characters don't fit under the fridging term you are deeming on them. As I said, from what Gail Simone wrote, they don't fit into that trope. They fit more in line with the Lost Lenore trope, as both of them are more than just a means to help develop other characters. And even then they don't meet every single point in the criteria to be that trope either.

But they do?

Women in Refrigerators (or WiR) is a website created in 1999[1] by a group of feminists and comic book fans, and more broadly a common comic book trope from which the website took its name. The website features a list of female comic book characters who have been injured, killed, or depowered as a plot device within various superhero comic books, and seeks to analyze why these plot devices are used disproportionately on female characters.
 
Considering is basically the only character that gets killed on screen, is telling.

And latter her dead body was hanging in a twisted way as a trophy. Brutal, I would say.

.

That scene was fucking disgusting.

Hacks at Square handling the biggest story based franchise in Japan.

This bluntly outlining to the players the failures of the writers.

Completely tasteless.

final-fantasy-xv-and-its-epic-storytelling-here-s-to-the-unseen-unsung-heroes.jpg
 
This keeps giving me goosebumps, the whole epilogue was beautiful.
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While I did enjoy the scene itself and most definitely the great version of the Final Fantasy theme, shoehorning Noctis into the logo really bothers me. I'm not entirely sure why though. I think it's because that scene clearly isn't what the logo was originally intended to mean.
 
So, why the Old kings of Lucis are all a bunch of morons? First in Kingslgaive and now in the game. Seems like they have to kill someone in order to do shit no matter what.

They're really underdeveloped and just a "sad ending" trigger in both ocasions.

They could've started the game with this ending and it would have had the same effect.

The game should've had the guts to maintain its happy go lucky nature and actually deliver some tonal consistency.I would've appreciated that more.

I agree. Ending was really well done but, like KG, they tried too hard to make it sad. The second part is just a drastic shift in character moods with weak reasons too. Like Gladio turns into a jerk without a good motive.
 
But they do?

You're just going to keep throwing out that quote while ignoring this one, huh?

The term came to be used more broadly, over time, to refer to any character who is targeted by an antagonist who has them killed off, abused, raped, incapacitated, de-powered, or brainwashed for the sole purpose of affecting another character, motivating them to take action.

for the sole purpose of affecting another character
 
The original meaning, a meaning still valid to these days, was to name women in comic books that were killed off as a mere plot device to furthen the character arc of super heroes. In that meaning, in the meaning that actually matters, Luna is undoubtelly fridged.
OK. Great video---love Feminist Frequency work. But following this video, Luna isn't fridged. Part of what Gail was noticing was a flood of women in comic books "...who suffered a loss of super power, brutal violation, or an untimely, gruesome death most often as a plot point for the male hero to seek revenge or further his heroic journey." Neither of these things happen in Final Fantasy. Noctis continued his journey exactly as his journey was leading him prior to her death. She didn't further his heroic journey with her death. And Anita claims that a piece that really stuck out to Gail was that "...[men] didn't seem to be killed in the same way---they tended to die heroically, to go down fighting. Whereas in many cases, the superladies were simply found on the kitchen table already carved up," then Anita ends her video stating "We have to remember that the women in refrigerators list was created for us to identify, understand, and resist the variety of ways that women and our fictional representations are dis-empowered and victimized."

I don't think Gail or Anita would say Luna is a character who was dis-empowered or victimized. In her final moments, when stabbed by Ardyn, you'd think this is where the flip would happen and she turns into a victim? But Luna summons the royal arms for Noctis. And after his battle when he flops down like a wet noodle, she crawls her bleeding self all the way over to him to try to heal him. And when leviathan eyes them, she embraces him as if to protect him. Yes, there are problems with Luna. But I truly don't think Gail would have had any issue with Luna and how she went down---fighting like a damn champion.

Hell, she even gets a dig in at Ardyn AFTER he stabs her. "I will pass the ring...to the rightful King."
 
You're just going to keep throwing out that quote while ignoring this one, huh?

The term came to be used more broadly, over time

The fact is used more broadly, dosn't mean the original meaning is lost, neither does mean that was Gail Simone's meaning when she created the website, as I clearly demonstrated.

OK. Great video---love Feminist Frequency work. But following this video, Luna isn't fridged. Part of what Gail was noticing was a flood of women in comic books "...who suffered a loss of super power, brutal violation, or an untimely, gruesome death most often as a plot point for the male hero to seek revenge or further his heroic journey." Neither of these things happen in Final Fantasy. Noctis continued his journey exactly as his journey was leading him prior to her death. She didn't further his heroic journey with her death. And Anita claims that a piece that really stuck out to Gail was that "...[men] didn't seem to be killed in the same way---they tended to die heroically, to go down fighting. Whereas in many cases, the superladies were simply found on the kitchen table already carved up," then Anita ends her video stating "We have to remember that the women in refrigerators list was created for us to identify, understand, and resist the variety of ways that women and our fictional representations are dis-empowered and victimized."

I don't think Gail or Anita would say Luna is a character who was dis-empowered or victimized. In her final moments, when stabbed by Ardyn, you'd think this is where the flip would happen and she turns into a victim? But Luna summons the royal arms for Noctis. And after his battle when he flops down like a wet noodle, she crawls her bleeding self all the way over to him to try to heal him. And when leviathan eyes them, she embraces him as if to protect him. Yes, there are problems with Luna. But I truly don't think Gail would have had any issue with Luna and how she went down---fighting like a damn champion.

She went down without a fight, the she was proceeded to be slapped and stabbed. That's not how heroes fall. Or are why forgetting that? How Ardyn slaps her with no effort? SO STRONK

And it did further Noctis journey, he ends more determined to his goal after her dead. After the suffering he comes out more stronger and finally has the determination to use the ring.
 
You'd think Luna's mishandling and fridging would be inarguable at this point ,but nope I guess.

& to think Psychoninja used to relentlessly attack Lightning & FFXIII characters because they were so bad...lol.

God I remember all those pointless arguments.Now There's a defense force for Luna ?
 
Just finished the story an hour ago and I have a few questions.

Is there a go-to post that explains the clusterfuck of a "story", especially the last third?

Why the fuck was the emperor suddenly a daemon and all we got was a short dialog line mentioning the fact?
Ardyn's fuckery which turned pretty much everyone in the Capitol into a Daemon because of some disease which is never explained

Why was there a 10 year gap and why was it not explained? Did I space out and miss something here?
Why couldn't they show badass daemon hunter Iris and older Cidney?
From what I can gather, that's how long Noctis was imprisoned before he came to terms with his destiny. The reason Bahamut put him there was so that he couldn't run away from it and was forced to accept it.

As for Cidney and Iris, they were apparently going to be there but had to be cut due to time constraints according to an AMA by a 4Chan dude who claimed to be on the dev team. From what they talked about it seems fairly possible it's true.


What exactly was Ardyn's deal? I got the gist of it but would have liked a little more info.
I'm a little fuzzy on this as well, but essentially he was a benevolent dude a thousand years ago who helped heal the daemon sickness. Somehow he got screwed over by the gods or something though and became resentful and also immortal... for some reason. He then used his knowledge of the daemons to manipulate everything until he could cover the world in darkness and claim the throne he feels is his by right since he is of the Lucis family line.

Please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong because this is batshit.


Why did Ninjas continuously cut a shit ton of onions during the last strech of the story? Seriously. By the end of the game I was majorly invested in the guys' friendship. Broke my fucking heart to see them at the camp for the last time and then seeing the empty chairs afterwards. Stand by me was also a perfect fit for the credits. Showing the pictures of their adventure was a gut punch on top...
Because even Ninjas love those bros dammit 😭

Am I the only one who took a close up of Cidney into the throne room at the end? That final scene with Luna was fucking hilarious with that picture!
You may very well be... and fuck if I do not commend you for it!

Great transition from the final scene into the FFXV logo.
Yeah that was pretty neat

All in all this is a great game that suffered from the long dev time and transition into something new. The story and execution of it felt like a jigsaw puzzle. The first half was too open with too little story and the second half could have used a little more openness between the chapters.
It also felt pretty weird that there was almost no animosity between the crew and the empire guys whenever important characters met. They helped each other more times than they fought against each other.
I agree with this

My three major disappointments are the battle system, the story and especially the lack of different biomes.
I can kinda feel that, I can definitely feel that, and I would say the cock tease of new biomes is what bugged me more than anything. Like seeing that one burning mountain forest city? Yeah that sucked.

The game was always pitched as a road trip but it feels like they spent most of their time driving around a small region. I was hoping the Duscae biome would be one of many but the surrounding regions looked like slight variations of it.
I felt the biomes were fairly varied in the mainland but I do agree with your point.

Story wise I thought it was pretty sad that most major plot points were losses. Everyone fucking died. I would have really liked a few more happy moments. The guys had some fun moments but that was never really story related.
Agreed. My biggest gripe with this game's story is it attempts to get all of the pay off without any of the effort necessary to set it up. Whether it was due to incompetence or lack of time (possibly both with a lot of the latter?), it really is a bummer. Still enjoyed the game at least. It was certainly a trip.
Replies in bold
 
She went down without a fight, slapped and stabbed. That's not how heroes fall.

And it did further Noctis journey, he ends more determined to his goal after her dead. After the suffering he comes out more stronger and finally has the determination to use the ring.
So you are stating the obvious of what happened to her, while cutting out what she did back? Well yeah, it is easy to say she was fridged then if you ignore pieces. And Noctis more determined....? What? Nothing changes. He continues his journey all the same. I'm going to need some stronger support for your last claim, because I don't see it.
 
That scene was fucking disgusting.

Hacks at Square handling the biggest story based franchise in Japan.

This bluntly outlining to the players the failures of the writers.

Completely tasteless.

final-fantasy-xv-and-its-epic-storytelling-here-s-to-the-unseen-unsung-heroes.jpg

I legit love that scene. Super haunting and really fucked up. Really cemented Ardyn being high on my ff villain list tbh. It was a really cool way of integrating Kingsglave into the game imo.
 
Yes to mishandling. No to fridging. She wasn't fridged.

She's a text book,perfect definition of a character who existed solely to die for the sake of serving & motivating another character.

There is literally nothing else to this character....

She's hanging from a ceiling at the end to personify this in physical terms.Regis was fridged too btw.

final-fantasy-xv-and-its-epic-storytelling-here-s-to-the-unseen-unsung-heroes.jpg
 
You'd think Luna's mishandling and fridging would be inarguable at this point ,but nope I guess.

I am not disputing mishandling. I am disputing the "fridging" term being put onto the character who doesn't fit the label.

& to think Psychoninja used to relentlessly attack Lightning & FFXIII characters because they were so bad...lol.

God I remember all those pointless arguments.Now There's a defense force for Luna ?

I did. Quite some time ago. I don't know if you noticed, but I stopped doing that years ago. I stopped because I felt it wasn't right for me to continue hitting against a game I didn't like. There was no point to be proven. I just needed to move on and have done so. Not that I like the characters, but because it wasn't productive of me to continue writing these long essays about a game I didn't like. And you are right, they were pointless arguments. I have long accepted that Lightning has her fanbase and that I will never understand why she's liked. But that is a deficiency on my end.
 
She's a text book,perfect definition of a character who existed solely to die for the sake of serving & motivating another character.

There is literally nothing else to this character....

She's hanging from a ceiling at the end to personify this in physical terms.Regis was fridged too btw.
Well why dontcha hop on to my larger post above in response to Anita's video and make some counter-points, because just making a claim isn't enough. Gotta back that shit up. Let's get to some talkin'.
 
I am not disputing mishandling. I am disputing the "fridging" term being put onto the character who doesn't fit the label.



I did. Quite some time ago. I don't know if you noticed, but I stopped doing that years ago. I stopped because I felt it wasn't right for me to continue hitting against a game I didn't like. There was no point to be proven. I just needed to move on and have done so. Not that I like the characters, but because it wasn't productive of me to continue writing these long essays about a game I didn't like. And you are right, they were pointless arguments. I have long accepted that Lightning has her fanbase and that I will never understand why she's liked. But that is a deficiency on my end.

Well,I appreciate the thoughtful,respectful reply.
 
So you are saying what happened to her, while cutting out what she did back? Well yeah, it is easy to say she was fridged then if you ignore pieces. And Noctis more determined....? What? Nothing changes. He continues his journey all the same. I'm going to need some stronger support for your last claim, because I don't see it.

Also, all she did in that fight was to power up Noctis. She didn't actually went down fighting, she was at Ardyn's mercy all the time.

His journey continues the same, but he realizes he has to step up as a king, and become stronger since Luna did her best to be a good tool for him.
 
Well why dontcha hop on to my larger post above in response to Anita's video and make some counter-points, because just making a claim isn't enough. Gotta back that shit up. Let's get to some talkin'.

I did.

I have little else more to contribute to this.I think Anita would rip Luna apart.

I completely agree with Relaxed muscle.
 
Also, all she did in that fight was to power up Noctis. She didn't actually went down fighting, she was at Ardyn's mercy all the time.
She was stabbed, and instead of falling to the floor in a hot mess she grabs Ardyn's hand and tries to bless him/heal him. And he knows what she is up to, so he slaps her off. But too late---this is what gets him killed in the final confrontation. Then at the end of the fight, she crawls over to Noctis to heal him. And when Leviathan rears up to attack, she pulls Noctis into her lap as if to protect him one final time. That's a fighter right there, up until her last breath.
His journey continues the same, but he realizes he has to step up as a king, and become stronger since Luna did her best to be a good tool for him.
All of this he realizes for different reasons though, one being Gladio whining for the next few chapters. Luna really doesn't push this narrative at all.
I did.

I have little else more to contribute to this.I think Anita would rip Luna apart.

I completely agree with Relaxed muscle.
I think Anita wouldn't be a fan, but I don't think she would call her a fridged character.
 
Also Anita's ultimately says:

"Writters are using "Women in refrigerators" trope to literally trade the female character's life for the benefit of a male hero's story arc"

That's what happens with Luna, outside of her very poor personality, her motivations and all, her actual death being brutal or not (many examples in the same website, aren't strictly brutal), and whatever else, this is what eaxctly defines a female being fridged.

She was stabbed, and instead of falling to the floor in a hot mess she grabs Ardyn's hand and tries to bless him/heal him. And he knows what she is up to, so he slaps her off. But too late---this is what gets him killed in the final confrontation. Then at the end of the fight, she crawls over to Noctis to heal him. And when Leviathan rears up to attack, she pulls Noctis into her lap as if to protect him one final time. That's a fighter right there, up until her last breath.
All of this he realizes for different reasons though, one being Gladio whining for the next few chapters. Luna really doesn't push this narrative at all.


That's a very open interpretation, that dosn't fit how super heroes went down in your original argument. If you are comparing how Luna "fights" to how Superman actually fights and dies, is quite laughable.

All of this he realizes for different reasons though, one being Gladio whining for the next few chapters. Luna really doesn't push this narrative at all.

But is Luna's death what kickstarters it, and the one that ignites that change.
 
Also, all she did in that fight was to power up Noctis. She didn't actually went down fighting, she was at Ardyn's mercy all the time.

His journey continues the same, but he realizes he has to step up as a king, and become stronger since Luna did her best to be a good tool for him.
She is essentially a White Mage. She is squishy. What was she supposed to do? Bleed on him? She stood up to a god damn Leviathan exploding torrents of magic water at her and even after being stabbed did everything in her power to help Noctis. Despite this though, she isn't a fighter. That isn't her thing. That doesn't make her weak either. Her actions were those of someone who is resolute and will do whatever they can to the bitter end.

Not every hero goes down in a hail of bullets or a clashing of blades.
 
While I did enjoy the scene itself and most definitely the great version of the Final Fantasy theme, shoehorning Noctis into the logo really bothers me. I'm not entirely sure why though. I think it's because that scene clearly isn't what the logo was originally intended to mean.
So what is it intended to mean? I honestly do not know.
 
OK. Great video---love Feminist Frequency work. But following this video, Luna isn't fridged. Part of what Gail was noticing was a flood of women in comic books "...who suffered a loss of super power, brutal violation, or an untimely, gruesome death most often as a plot point for the male hero to seek revenge or further his heroic journey." Neither of these things happen in Final Fantasy. Noctis continued his journey exactly as his journey was leading him prior to her death. She didn't further his heroic journey with her death. And Anita claims that a piece that really stuck out to Gail was that "...[men] didn't seem to be killed in the same way---they tended to die heroically, to go down fighting. Whereas in many cases, the superladies were simply found on the kitchen table already carved up," then Anita ends her video stating "We have to remember that the women in refrigerators list was created for us to identify, understand, and resist the variety of ways that women and our fictional representations are dis-empowered and victimized."

I don't think Gail or Anita would say Luna is a character who was dis-empowered or victimized. In her final moments, when stabbed by Ardyn, you'd think this is where the flip would happen and she turns into a victim? But Luna summons the royal arms for Noctis. And after his battle when he flops down like a wet noodle, she crawls her bleeding self all the way over to him to try to heal him. And when leviathan eyes them, she embraces him as if to protect him. Yes, there are problems with Luna. But I truly don't think Gail would have had any issue with Luna and how she went down---fighting like a damn champion.

Hell, she even gets a dig in at Ardyn AFTER he stabs her. "I will pass the ring...to the rightful King."

Yes to mishandling. No to fridging. She wasn't fridged.

So you are stating the obvious of what happened to her, while cutting out what she did back? Well yeah, it is easy to say she was fridged then if you ignore pieces. And Noctis more determined....? What? Nothing changes. He continues his journey all the same. I'm going to need some stronger support for your last claim, because I don't see it.

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. While I can understand where RelaxedMuscle is coming from, and I respect his input on the matter, it does ignore everything Luna does up until that point in the story. It also shoves aside the notion that all the way up until the end, she was the one protecting him and not the other way around. It also seems to come from a place where "to be a strong character, you must be magically/physically strong". And that I don't agree with.

While I agree she should've been shown off more in the game, her role is important and she is a huge part of the story and how everything plays out. I found her very strong after learning that she was in utter pain and could barely stand with the scene between her and Ravus. She almost gave up. But soldiered on and didn't show any signs of weakness after that scene between her and Ravus and continued on to fulfill her duty, uncomplainingly.

Edit: And she continued on because of her strong belief and her strong resolution to the people of Eos. She chose of her own accord and stuck by what she wanted. She continued on even when her body wouldn't
 
Also Anita's ultimately says:

"Writters are using "Women in refrigerators" trope to literally trade the female character's life for the benefit of a male hero's story arc"

That's what happens with Luna, outside of her very poor personality, her motivations and all, her actual death being brutal or not (many examples in the same website, aren't strictly brutal), and whatever else, this is what eaxctly defines a female being fridged.
Right. We've hit on this already, and pointed out how Luna doesn't fit this very well. Her death adds no narrative arc and doesn't further his journey.

That's a very open interpretation, that dosn't fit how super heroes went down in your original argument. If you are comparing how Luna "fights" to how Superman actually fights and dies, is quite laughable.
What is open to interpretation? That she was fighting up until the end? However you interpret it, she did more than the women in comics Simone was critiquing---they would be found dead, seemingly having put up no fight. Luna did more than that. And what the shite about Superman? Genuinely confused.
But is Luna's death what kickstarters it, and the one that ignites that change.
Gladio had given him the same shit prior in the game about being kingly and taking up his rightful position.

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. While I can understand where RelaxedMuscle is coming from, and I respect his input on the matter, it does ignore everything Luna does up until that point in the story. It also shoves aside the notion that all the way up until the end, she was the one protecting him and not the other way around. It also seems to come from a place where "to be a strong character, you must be magically/physically strong". And that I don't agree with.

While I agree she should've been shown off more in the game, her role is important and she is a huge part of the story and how everything plays out. I found her very strong after learning that she was in utter pain and could barely stand with the scene between her and Ravus. She almost gave up. But soldiered on and didn't show any signs of weakness after that scene between her and Ravus and continued on to fulfill her duty, uncomplainingly.
Agreed Agreed. The more I think about her character, the more I like her. I think she requires a bit more peeling back than the rest of the cast to see some of the good in her, though she was still a letdown compared to what she could have been. But alas, RelaexMuscle gets to have the last word on me. Starving and time to eat some supper.

Relaxed---it was good talking. Even though you look funny and smell.
 
My goodness, there is more descriptive details in this thread about how some of the characters are "fridging" and have no personality than there is details about them in the actual game lol.

Could someone please tell me if there is any item/accessory or food buff that increases AP gain? or there isn't any?
 
She is essentially a White Mage. She is squishy. What was she supposed to do? Bleed on him? She stood up to a god damn Leviathan exploding torrents of magic water at her and even after being stabbed did everything in her power to help Noctis. Despite this though, she isn't a fighter. That isn't her thing. That doesn't make her weak either. Her actions were those of someone who is resolute and will do whatever they can to the bitter end.

Not every hero goes down in a hail of bullets or a clashing of blades.

It makes her defenseless and utimately at the expense of his enemy, all the fight she does is some cure bullshit, that ends on a slap, btw. In the whole scene, she dosn't appear a capable being or a danger to Ardyn. In the quote of male heroes that also dies, justifying Luna's death, they always put a fight.

So having courage, is not how (male) superheroes tend to die.

Her death adds no narrative arc and doesn't further his journey.

But, basically the next 2 chapters is about her death. And ultimately it does further his journey.
 
I put all sound effects at 40 and the music at 100. It really helps. Now I hear how fucking Flawless the Ifrit battle is. I'm kinda trying to get the daggers.

Its funny to play those battles while OP. He simply can't down me.
 
Aranea was another character that took me by surprise. Usually Dragoons are noble or tragic, or at least stoic and mysterious. Nope. Not this girl. Foul mouthed mercenary with crass behavior and a good heart beneath. Loved it - especially how she was a surprise guest character.
 
Just finished the story an hour ago and I have a few questions.


Am I the only one who took a close up of Cidney into the throne room at the end? That final scene with Luna was fucking hilarious with that picture!


lmao glad i'm not the only one, i saved the cindy pic to show a friend early in the game, didn't bother to save any more pictures for the rest of the game cause i didn't think much of it. when that scene hit i was like..ummm umm ok then, and then bursted out in laughter when noctis gave luna the picture.
 
Soooo why does Gladio say Aranea knows how to work a lance and then she says "Aha, I'm not touchin that" It made me laugh.

Yeah..

Speaking of Cindy

Did anyone notice in that factory mission that the woman asking for help said she agreed to help because Cindy asked her out?

Does that mean a date?

Did Cindy pimp herself out to help the guys?

Why did Gladio hide the fact that it was him helping with the mission?

Why didn't he and Nocto get out of the suit wearing only short shorts?

Help

Oh and speaking of female representation, I didn't notice that the white dog died off screen and out of the two dogs that one was the girl. Haha
 
Yeah..

Speaking of Cindy

Did anyone notice in that factory mission that the woman asking for help said she agreed to help because Cindy asked her out?

Does that mean a date?

Did Cindy pimp herself out to help the guys?

Why did Gladio hide the fact that it was him helping with the mission?

Why didn't he and Nocto get out of the suit wearing only short shorts?

Help

Oh and speaking of female representation, I didn't notice that the white dog died off screen and out of the two dogs that one was the girl. Haha

to each of those:
- No idea, I think its implied that its more like a free meal favour type thing
- No she didn't pimp herself out, its stated they are friends.
- Noct and Gladio kinda clued into who each other was during the mission and just played it off each other. I though it was kinda funny.
- No idea, but they should have tbh. My head cannon says they were in nothing but their underwear and maybe a shirt and then during the fade to black, they get their cloths on.

That's dream sex there's a difference.

If both parties are involved, is there?
 
That random generator sequence made no sense until I realized it was supposed to hint that the daemons were getting more aggressive and invading towns now. Foreshadowing!
 
That random generator sequence made no sense until I realized it was supposed to hint that the daemons were getting more aggressive and invading towns now. Foreshadowing!

The problem is that its too short a time in there, and in too small a place. I expected a dungeon and got a battle arena.

It was extra weird when I got Ramuh to attack the place and... lets just say it looks weird.
 
So what is it intended to mean? I honestly do not know.

Well me neither to be honest haha. I looked it up and it's definitely the Oracle, which makes sense. You also see it in one the pieces of in-game art works showing the Oracle and the Astrals. So I guess it's just that. Which is probably why it annoyed me when Luna and Noctis transitioned into the logo because that doesn't seem right, outside of Luna being the Oracle.

 
How/when did the white dog die?
 
I do hope Square doesn't go overboard in reaction to the, well, mixed reaction and decides to play it safe with like zero character deaths in XVI. I like my stories to have consequences. I realize death isn't the only way to achieve that, but in games with (attempted) epic scale, the stakes work really well if some of your cast don't make it home alive.

It doesn't work without proper development. It needs to be earned. But y'know, in the entertainment industry the loud noises disgruntled fans make tend to drown out the rest of the discussion. Over the next couple of years, there's going to be a lot of "LOL KILL EVERYONE" without addressing that the problem here is that it isn't earned. I know many of you are (wisely) pointing this out, but I think the internet is going to explode with complaints over the deaths themselves, not bothering to outline the reason they usually fell flat.
 
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Blond haired guy, has fraternal issues. Joins a military army in order to fulfill his revenge. / Blond Haired guy, his mother's death could have been avoided by the protagonist's father, loses an arm during an operation, is transplanted a brand new arm with special powers which ends up taking over his body

E3-2013-Kojima-Nomura.jpg
 
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