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[ohlawd]

You guys don't have Inigo x Chrom? I have all 3 filled out.

edit: oh it's been like 100 posts since it got updated. Someone else has the claim. Nvm.

 

[fatgamecat]

Awakening is the easiest FE to trivialize. Once you've got your sorc setup, every map from that point on is moving your broken pair into a group of enemies and pressing start to skip enemy turn. Grinding isn't necessary on Lunatic, either, as the 1 hr clears attest. That's not even taking into account DLC, Spotpass, etc. that can trivialize the game further. You folks should browse Serenes and the Gamefaqs Awakening boards more often if you want to keep up on the latest broken strategies.

Other FEs you'll have to do risky, time consuming, and more difficult arena grinding, reloading for growths, boss chipping, etc. In addition any FE with a scoring system will penalize your speed score for grinding. You can grind in most FEs, but quite a few of them have a well designed scoring system that promotes more skilled play. That also means the developer has to put more effort into balancing their game, though. Btw, you can't mind read the developers balance intentions in terms of implementing grinding and such.

 

[Gestahl]

Btw, you can't mind read the developers balance intentions in terms of implementing grinding and such.

Yeah most of this page was just hypotheticals, which is fine. Unless someone here is in a cramped cubicle in Japan banging out code on a keyboard

Honestly the biggest issue is probably the infinite leveling, that throws such a huge wrench into what the developers have to account for that I don't know why they made it a thing. The limited classes per character is nice, but I'd take FE12's finite reclass system any day. Not that it's much better or anything. Having volatile growth rates the past few games has been quite odd. Though I suppose the shards and scrolls of the past amounted to something similar.

 

[Solune]

He also has quite a touching side when you do his supports with his father.

Yup, even vanilla Avatar x Laurent is pretty fun.

I paired Miriel with Vaike and passed Gamble on to Laurent, who has now become a crit machine of death. I plan on reclassing him to Sorcerer once he gets Lifetaker so he can use a forged Ruin tome to take over the world.

With those modifiers making him a Dread Knight is great too (if you bought the DLC)

 

[ffdgh]

Doing the supports on normal (yay 500 gold reeking boxes) I'vs learned nowi isn't as stu- err absent minded as she makes herself to be, Tharja is...oddly sweet and

Spoiler

she can talk to the dead

, gregor has alot of history and saved

Spoiler

minerva while she was young, Gregor is his dead brother's name

. Tis time consuming but It's very entertaining to get these things lol.

 

[Hours Left]

Doing the supports on normal (yay 500 gold reeking boxes) I'vs learned nowi isn't as stu- err absent minded as she makes herself to be, Tharja is...oddly sweet and

Spoiler

she can talk to the dead

, gregor has alot of history and saved

Spoiler

minerva while she was young, Gregor is his dead brother's name

. Tis time consuming but It's very entertaining to get these things lol.

Getting supports is one of my favorite parts of the game. Each time the box turns orange, I get all tingly.

 

[Augemitbutter]

i finished my playthrough recently (hard/classic).

here is my review: i killed the last boss in one.simple.attack.round.

you can plainly see that something went horribly wrong with this game. i didn't do anything fancy like speding 200 hours in the game, slaughtering innocent dummies while watching 3 TV shows simultaneously. it was a straight playthrough with minor sidetracking for paralogues, if you want to call unique content sidetracking. there was no respect left for the enemy from my side halfway in. i ended up with a few invincible units

Spoiler

donny, tiki, morgan, yarne etc.

. it was possible to pretty much solo kill the game with them. i kept dragging weak units with me until the end. but there was no benefit to it and no additional content to see. the game is good on the outside. but if you start going deeper it will be very easy to expose its shortcomings for any half-experienced player. this is not what i expected from a FE game. it was bad enough that you had to do research in the previous games/remakes on boot up when you weren't sure which one was the right FE difficulty setting. now it seems there is none of that left anymore. you'll end up with an underdeveloped game no matter what you choose.

i don't know how much discussion there was regarding this matter, or if it has been drowned in all that waifu nonsense, but i will say that it's a pity that some long time fans are content with this outcome. it seems they just gave up on what was once a classic series.

 

[fatgamecat]

i don't know how much discussion there was regarding this matter, or if it has been drowned in all that waifu nonsense, but i will say that it's a pity that some long time fans are content with this outcome. it seems they just gave up on what was once a classic series.

Massive flamewars on gamefaqs (look at the 4/10 review), intense discussion on serenes, pretty much nothing here. In fact in this thread you're more likely to get argued against by casual players than anyone agreeing with your assessment. I too enjoyed my first run on Hard Classic but the balance issues and plain, repetitive map design were readily apparent. You should give FE12 Lunatic a try if you're looking for a solid FE difficulty experience.

 

[Augemitbutter]

Massive flamewars on gamefaqs (look at the 4/10 review), intense discussion on serenes, pretty much nothing here. In fact in this thread you're more likely to get argued against by casual players than anyone agreeing with your assessment. I too enjoyed my first run on Hard Classic but the balance issues and plain, repetitive map design were readily apparent. You should give FE12 Lunatic a try if you're looking for a solid FE difficulty experience.

all right. guess i was eyeing the wrong community then. only played the beginning of FE12 so far. i have to find a more convenient way to play the game first. and i think i'm done with FE for a while. this game burned me out.

 

[chaosblade]

I found the game, especially the last chapter, fairly difficult on my first playthrough on hard classic.

But I also played the game with the assumption I could just grind if I needed to and made decisions based on that, but never actually did any meaningful grinding (got a few lower leveled characters up to my primary party, but that was it). Most of my units were promoted early and I only did two paralogues in the second half of the game - Tiki's and Severa's, which left a lot of levels/stats, and experience on the table.

By the end of the game most of my primary party hadn't hit 20 in their promoted classes, and some of my characters were getting doubled and KO'd in one fight if I didn't pair up. And yet, I still beat the game. So I'd say there's something wrong with the difficulty if I could do a total screwup playthrough and still beat it.

I played the first half of my second playthrough much more "traditionally" and the middle section of the game was extremely easy. Of course my primary reason for replaying is to prepare for the post-game DLC and not story difficulty, so after chapter 14 I've been grinding for skills to pass down anyway.

 

[fatgamecat]

Yes Awakening is actually more difficult if you try to field and level up an entire deployment of evenly leveled units rather than powerlevel one or two units into nearly unkillable gods that can solo/duo the entire game.

 

[Anteo]

i finished my playthrough recently (hard/classic).

here is my review: i killed the last boss in one.simple.attack.round.

you can plainly see that something went horribly wrong with this game. i didn't do anything fancy like speding 200 hours in the game, slaughtering innocent dummies while watching 3 TV shows simultaneously. it was a straight playthrough with minor sidetracking for paralogues, if you want to call unique content sidetracking. there was no respect left for the enemy from my side halfway in. i ended up with a few invincible units

Spoiler

donny, tiki, morgan, yarne etc.

. it was possible to pretty much solo kill the game with them. i kept dragging weak units with me until the end. but there was no benefit to it and no additional content to see. the game is good on the outside. but if you start going deeper it will be very easy to expose its shortcomings for any half-experienced player. this is not what i expected from a FE game. it was bad enough that you had to do research in the previous games/remakes on boot up when you weren't sure which one was the right FE difficulty setting. now it seems there is none of that left anymore. you'll end up with an underdeveloped game no matter what you choose.

i don't know how much discussion there was regarding this matter, or if it has been drowned in all that waifu nonsense, but i will say that it's a pity that some long time fans are content with this outcome. it seems they just gave up on what was once a classic series.

Yeah the last stage was underwelming, I just finished my No grind run, and I got grima to 14 hp in one attack from Chrom+Lucina, and that's because Passive activated in the last attack. I feel that Ch25 was harder. Then again I did try the last stage twice, as always a unit out of position is a dead unit.

 

[PKrockin]

Yes Awakening is actually more difficult if you try to field and level up an entire deployment of evenly leveled units rather than powerlevel one or two units into nearly unkillable gods that can solo/duo the entire game.

Doesn't that go for the whole series, really?

 

[Wiseblade]

So I played the demo yesterday. These are going to be 3 of the longest weeks of my life.

 

[Soulhouf]

i finished my playthrough recently (hard/classic).

here is my review: i killed the last boss in one.simple.attack.round.

you can plainly see that something went horribly wrong with this game. i didn't do anything fancy like speding 200 hours in the game, slaughtering innocent dummies while watching 3 TV shows simultaneously. it was a straight playthrough with minor sidetracking for paralogues, if you want to call unique content sidetracking. there was no respect left for the enemy from my side halfway in. i ended up with a few invincible units

Spoiler

donny, tiki, morgan, yarne etc.

. it was possible to pretty much solo kill the game with them. i kept dragging weak units with me until the end. but there was no benefit to it and no additional content to see. the game is good on the outside. but if you start going deeper it will be very easy to expose its shortcomings for any half-experienced player. this is not what i expected from a FE game. it was bad enough that you had to do research in the previous games/remakes on boot up when you weren't sure which one was the right FE difficulty setting. now it seems there is none of that left anymore. you'll end up with an underdeveloped game no matter what you choose.

i don't know how much discussion there was regarding this matter, or if it has been drowned in all that waifu nonsense, but i will say that it's a pity that some long time fans are content with this outcome. it seems they just gave up on what was once a classic series.

I tried to be more lenient because the game brought many nice aspects to the table but, but as an old FE player and a fan, your review summarizes perfectly my thoughts..

The sad part is, given that Awakening is probably the most successful FE, that will pretty much continue in that direction.

 

[NeonZ]

i don't know how much discussion there was regarding this matter, or if it has been drowned in all that waifu nonsense, but i will say that it's a pity that some long time fans are content with this outcome. it seems they just gave up on what was once a classic series.

As someone who has been playing FE for a while, I think Awakening's design was anything but the developers "giving up" on the series. Yes, it has some balance issues, but I feel like it's the first game in a long time that actually tries to add something to the series, take it somewhere.

From FE 6-12, there was no real effort of the developers to try anything significantly new. FE6 was a simpler FE5 with the support system. FE7 brought back different chapter objectives, but otherwise was pretty much just an enhanced FE6, with only a single new class. FE8 added things like grinding and monster, but was essentially just FE6/7 again and all core mechanics remained the same. Even the stepback to 3d with Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn only meant the return of personal skills.

FE13's core balance is unrefined in some aspects (and the most obvious one has nothing to do with the new features even which is just odd), and a lot of the bonus content can be used to easily break the game, but I liked how they actually tried to make this a new experience with the new class system, dual attacks/support/pair up, a new smarter AI and all the extra content. If anything, I feel like the people who say that they should drop everything this game added and make a FE10 clone next time are the ones who gave up on this series and don't seem to expect any progress anymore.

 

[Gestahl]

I see Biorhythms, Elevation, Crossbows, Ally units, BEXP, and Forging have been written out of this reality

Oh yeah and fucking Laguz that's right hahaha

Lethe has been wiped out of existence.

Oh god and Base Conversations too! Jesus it's depressing to think how many of these aren't in Awakening...wait...voiced narration!? Shit I got to stop thinking about this...

 

[Oxx]

So I played the demo yesterday. These are going to be 3 of the longest weeks of my life.

19 days.

 

[fatgamecat]

As someone who has been playing FE for a while, I think Awakening's design was anything but the developers "giving up" on the series. Yes, it has some balance issues, but I feel like it's the first game in a long time that actually tries to add something to the series, take it somewhere.

Each FE tried to add something new to the series. Reclassing, My Unit, and Casual mode all came before FE13. Adding new features isn't the problem, the game mechanics being heavily imbalanced and the map design being bland and repetitive are problems. Don't forget the lack of a scoring system. It's fallacious to hide major balance issues and bad level design behind "progress and change". FE13 gameplay could have easily been as good as FE12 even with the new features.

Please find "these people" who are demanding a FE10 clone. I don't see any here. Even if they exist, to poke at people for wanting an FE10-like game as "ones who gave up on this series" doesn't help anyone.

 

[Soulhouf]

Each FE tried to add something new to the series. Reclassing, My Unit, and Casual mode all came before FE13. Adding new features isn't the problem, the game mechanics being heavily imbalanced and the map design being bland and repetitive are problems. Don't forget the lack of a scoring system. It's fallacious to hide major balance issues and bad level design behind "progress and change". FE13 gameplay could have easily been as good as FE12 even with the new features.

Please find "these people" who are demanding a FE10 clone. I don't see any here. Even if they exist, to poke at people for wanting an FE10-like game as "ones who gave up on this series" doesn't help anyone.

People seem to be blinded by the waifu nonsens and all the anime cliché this game brought. Many are enjoying that and don't give a shit to gameplay balance.
I can understand that but it's sad we came to this.

 

[zroid]

give me all of your bitter tears, Awakening haters :U

 

[Augemitbutter]

I tried to be more lenient because the game brought many nice aspects to the table but, but as an old FE player and a fan, your review summarizes perfectly my thoughts..

The sad part is, given that Awakening is probably the most successful FE, that will pretty much continue in that direction.

i'm also very lenient in what i wrote. another negative point i have is how they're handing out permanent stat boosting items out for free. they always felt like real special items before. you had to work your ass off and solve special requirements on the battlefield to get your hands on these most of the time. saving a villager has never been so unrewarding before.

As someone who has been playing FE for a while, I think Awakening's design was anything but the developers "giving up" on the series. Yes, it has some balance issues, but I feel like it's the first game in a long time that actually tries to add something to the series, take it somewhere.

From FE 6-12, there was no real effort of the developers to try anything significantly new. FE6 was a simpler FE5 with the support system. FE7 brought back different chapter objectives, but otherwise was pretty much just an enhanced FE6, with only a single new class. FE8 added things like grinding and monster, but was essentially just FE6/7 again and all core mechanics remained the same. Even the stepback to 3d with Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn only meant the return of personal skills.

FE13's core balance is unrefined in some aspects (and the most obvious one has nothing to do with the new features even which is just odd), and a lot of the bonus content can be used to easily break the game, but I liked how they actually tried to make this a new experience with the new class system, dual attacks/support/pair up, a new smarter AI and all the extra content. If anything, I feel like the people who say that they should drop everything this game added and make a FE10 clone next time are the ones who gave up on this series and don't seem to expect any progress anymore.

as it has been pointed out already, there have been plenty of changes from past to present. besides, change is not a good excuse if your core game is broken. you can try new things while keeping the core game intact. that's how good sequels are created.

 

[NeonZ]

Each FE tried to add something new to the series.

No, they didn't. What did FE7 bring? FE8? FE6 was a necessary step if they wanted to keep some kind of focus to the series' concept, since it brought some FE4 and FE5 mechanics to a more FE3ish map/game design style, but after that they pretty much just continued slowly playing with old features.

Path of Radiance did add a few things, but they seemed to be basically fearful of adding actually relevant mechanics there. Shove? It's useful at times but completely extraneous to the core game. Ability to order allied npcs? Nice, but, yet again, doesn't really change much for most of the game. Biorhythm? The improvements to the support system in FE9 were welcome, but, still, all these were basically minor tweaks. The biggest "addition" was bringing back the personal skills - basically even more old mechanics.

Reclassing, My Unit, and Casual mode all came before FE13.

"Reclassing" already existed as a concept, but Awakening's reclass system is completely different from the previous one.

Adding new features isn't the problem, the game mechanics being heavily imbalanced and the map design being bland and repetitive are problems.

The game has some balance issues, and the world map system (with all the extra features added to it here like bonus teams selling rare weapons and shops with basically any standard weapon) makes exploiting the game much easier even without grinding, but I don't think the game's core design is flawed, nor I think that making exploits faster than in previous games somehow hurts this game more.

Don't forget the lack of a scoring system.

Personally, that's not something I ever cared about. I understand it's important to others though, so I just won't get into that since it'll go nowhere.

It's fallacious to hide major balance issues and bad level design behind "progress and change". FE13 gameplay could have easily been as good as FE12 even with the new features.

See, I don't think it's significantly inferior. I enjoyed the aggressive AI and the lack of choke points. Making them spread apart and defeating them afterwards, or attracting them, taking out the undesired unit type and them countering the others in the enemy's turn, was much more satisfying here than with the defensive enemies of previous games that stupidly moved individually, making counter strategies against them much more obvious. And there were stages with choke points, they just weren't an universal answer everywhere this time. I also liked the changes to the class change system, rather than the completely free system from FE12 that basically gave no consequences to the player. I liked how the game didn't make most characters basically punishment to the player, unlike in FE12's higher difficulties. Yes, there are obviously weaker ones, but no one is unusable to the point that a large part of the cast was in FE12's highest difficulty. The game does reward small parties. But, really that's a universal problem with Fire Emblem. I don't see why people are only pointing fingers to Awakening regarding this issue.

During my first playthrough, the only things I consciously avoided were skirmishes before finishing the game and buying Nosferatu tomes, and that was enough to make the game seemingly balanced enough for a first run. I did beat Grimma in one attack though (Falchion + Astra), but at least getting to him took a while killing reinforcements so they wouldn't overrun the characters charging in, something that happened the first few times I attempted the chapter.

I acknowledge that this game has problems, and the Lunatic + mode with its random enemy skills is basically trash (FE 12's Reverse Lunatic was completely broken too though. If you have to force a single build of the custom character to be able to actually advance through the game, and reset according to the stat ups given by the RNG, there IS a big problem with the game design). I think the next game should be a FE7-style refinement rather than something completely different, but I don't think this game by itself is deeply flawed to the point of ruining the strategic side.

Please find "these people" who are demanding a FE10 clone. I don't see any here. Even if they exist, to poke at people for wanting an FE10-like game as "ones who gave up on this series" doesn't help anyone.

Check my post history. Or old pages of this thread. Most of my old discussions in this thread about FE13's quality invariably led to people arguing that the rescue system, bonus experience and multiple objectives from Radiant Dawn should replace Awakening's Pair Up, chapter design and free world map. Now in the last few pages you've also got people complaining about the new aggressive AI. I don't see how else I could read all that.

 

[clay_ghost]

Yup i have not completed the game yet(busy with clearing "free"ps plus game before i extended another year ) but i missed the past fire emblem feeling.

I do not like Scared stones as much and this reminds me a lot of that(like SS with 300 % more polish).

I am confident that they will go back to or invent whatever system they feel suited for the story or game play purpose.

If it takes too much time to make a FE game i want IS to remake Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776 back to back. It should be cheaper and faster for them to chuck out these games on a yearly basics.
If it does not cost too much they should translate(or remake) Sword of Seals too, i am sure there are more fire emblem fans now.

 

[Draxal]

People seem to be blinded by the waifu nonsens and all the anime cliché this game brought. Many are enjoying that and don't give a shit to gameplay balance.
I can understand that but it's sad we came to this.

Presentation/shipping >>> core gameplay, I don't understand why people haven't noticed this for a while, when we had this same exact thing happen with 5 and 6. Four's the most popular game in the series, and it was that introduced the waifu system, even though while the game was ambitious that game had some serious flaws as well.

\\
Please find "these people" who are demanding a FE10 clone. I don't see any here. Even if they exist, to poke at people for wanting an FE10-like game as "ones who gave up on this series" doesn't help anyone.

Use the search thread function, Neonz wasn't lieing. Wet blanketing people who enjoy this game doesn't help either.

 

[Chrom]

No, they didn't. What did FE7 bring? FE8? FE6 was a necessary step if they wanted to keep some kind of focus to the series' concept, since it brought some FE4 and FE5 mechanics to a more FE3ish map/game design style, but after that they pretty much just continued slowly playing with old features.

FE7 introduced a weather system. Granted, said mechanic was seldom used and kind of dumb, but there's that.

Not sure if this ought to count towards what you had in mind, but FE8's Creature Campaign sets the game apart from the rest of the series as the only game with a genuine postgame.

 

[Javier]

FE7 also lets you use stat boosters and promotion items in the base. It may not be a huge feature, but you really miss it when you go back to FE6 and FE5 after playing FE7.

 

[Javier]

I agree there are some really boring maps in this game (FE5 and FE10 have the best map design IMO), but if I had to mention a map that really stuck with me in this game, it would be Paralogue 16 and its trolling walls of doom.

 

[NeonZ]

Well, as far as the maps go, although I liked the design in general and open maps didn't bother me, I do think it's a shame that the last 5 story maps were all open fields. That was really the one point of the game where I was really left wishing for more variation. Outside of that segment though, I thought the mix of open and closed maps worked and helped making the structure of each one stand out more.

 

[Draxal]

Well, as far as the maps go, although I liked the design in general and open maps didn't bother me, I do think it's a shame that the last 4 or 5 story maps were all open fields. That was really the one point of the game where I was really left wishing for more variation. Outside of that segment though, I thought the mix of open and closed maps helped making the structure of each one stand out more.

Everything about the last 5 maps/story seemed to suggest rushed as fuck to make a release date.

 

[The Awesomest]

I see Biorhythms, Elevation, Crossbows, Ally units, BEXP, and Forging have been written out of this reality

Oh yeah and fucking Laguz that's right hahaha

Lethe has been wiped out of existence.

Oh god and Base Conversations too! Jesus it's depressing to think how many of these aren't in Awakening...wait...voiced narration!? Shit I got to stop thinking about this...

There is forging. Laguz was a Tellius-only deal, and you can even take the Taguel as a type of Laguz if you want. A gazillion support conversations more than makes up for the lack of base conversations.

Other than that, I agree with you.

 

[Gestahl]

There is forging. Laguz was a Tellius-only deal, and you can even take the Taguel as a type of Laguz if you want. A gazillion support conversations more than makes up for the lack of base conversations.

Other than that, I agree with you.

The Taguel are functionally more similar to Manaketes than Laguz from a gameplay perspective, and of course they're a Tellius only deal that is kind of the point when someone starts talking mad shit about how the only things those games brought back were skills (which should have stayed buried), and I don't think a bunch of supports of varying quality make up for conversations that expanded on the world building in such a way as the Tellius base convos did. They really helped set the narrative for places like Toha and Begnion. Even FE12 had some variation on these, so their absence here is even more pronounced. That post was more responding to Neon's embarrassing smear campaign against the entire series than any sort of comparison between games anyway.

On a completely unrelated note, here are the Sirs and Madams Not Appearing in this Game:

1 RESCUE (Series Staple)
2 Sid Meier's Pirates! (Water really doesn't matter in Awakening either) (Like roaches, are everywhere in Fire Emblem)
3 MAGIC TRIANGLE (Anima Triangle?) (Series Staple)
4 Destructible Terrain (walls, snags, etc) (In plenty of games)
5 LIGHT MAGIC (Series Staple)
6 STATUS EFFECTS (SS)
7 Status staves (SS)
8 Defend missions (7-10)
9 Escape missions (Arrival variant as well)
10 STEALING (No wonder Gaius gets shit on so much) (SS)
11 Base Conversations (9-10, 12)
12 Laguz (9-10)
13 Crossbows (FE10)
14 Anima Siege Tomes (SS)
15 Ballista (SS)
16 Weather (FE7 only)
17 Fog of War (SS)
18 Environmental hazards beyond fire bad (Boulders, pitfalls, gas traps, etc) (6-10 at least)
19 Opening chapter narration (+ voiced narration) (SS)
20 Actual Monster Enemy Units (Giant fucking spider > Risen) (FE2, FE8)
21 Biorhythms (FE9-10)
22 ELEVATION (should have been the next major evolution in the series) (10)
23 Ally Units (9-10)
24 WEAPON WEIGHT (SS)
25 Constitution (SS)
26 Capture (FE5 only)
27 Fatigue (FE5 only)
28 Accessories (4, 7-10)
29 Branched Paths (5, 7, 8)
30 Arenas (+ 12 Training Grounds) (SS)
31 Bonus Experience (9-10)
32 Bonus Objectives beyond not letting green units die (Not killing any enemy priests, clear in x turns, escape without being seen, etc)
+ 33 Dismounting (FE3-5)
+ 34 Canto (any version) (SS)
+ 35 Playable Soldiers (9-10)
+ 36 Hidden Items (Deserts, that bizarre FE10 pulled. I guess you could call these the sparkling tile's shy older brother. Goddess staff exists, so mark with a ?) (SS)
+ 37 Deploying every unit (FE4)
+ 38 Repair Shops (FE4)
+ 39 Touch Controls (11-12)
+ 40 Movement stars (5)
+ 41 Leadership stars (4,5,10)
+ 42 Devil weapons (Apparently bronze weapons are a huge fucking deal so I'll add this I guess) (SS)
+ 43 Knives (9-10)

Present in FE7: 23 (?) Features introduced after FE7: Around 10
Present in FE9: 29 (?) Features introduced after: 3(?)
Present in FE10: 31 (?) Features introduced after: 1(?)

Staples: 20 (?) (All these question marks, I am terrible with numbers)

Feel free to add any I missed! Obviously not all of these are essential and some only appear in a couple chapters in one game, but the actual scale of how much that has been stripped out is kind of hard to believe when you actually start thinking about it.

 

[Chrom]

Dismounting's not in this game either.

 

[Moonlight]

On a completely unrelated note, here are the Sirs and Madams Not Appearing in this Game:

RESCUE
Sid Meier's Pirates! (Water really doesn't matter in Awakening either)
MAGIC TRIANGLE (Anima Triangle?)
Destructible Terrain (walls, snags, etc)
LIGHT MAGIC
STATUS EFFECTS
Status staves
Defend missions
Escape missions (Arrival variant as well)
STEALING (No wonder Gaius gets shit on so much)
Base Conversations
Laguz
Crossbows (FE10)
Anima Siege Tomes
Ballista
Weather (FE7 only)
Fog of War
Environmental hazards beyond fire bad (Boulders, pitfalls, gas traps, etc)
Opening chapter narration (+ voiced narration)
Actual Monster Enemy Units (Giant fucking spider > Risen)
Biorhythms
ELEVATION (should have been the next major evolution in the series)
Ally Units
WEAPON WEIGHT
Constitution
Capture (FE5 only)
Fatigue (FE5 only)
Accessories
Branched Paths
Arenas (+ 12 Training Grounds)
Bonus Experience
Bonus Objectives beyond not letting green units die (Not killing any enemy priests, clear in x turns, escape without being seen, etc)

Feel free to add any I missed! Obviously not all of these are essential and some only appear in a couple chapters in one game, but the actual scale of how much that has been stripped out is kind of hard to believe when you actually start thinking about it.

It's a bit disingenuous stacking Awakening, one game, against the various experiments, feats, and gameplay concepts of literally the rest of the franchise. It's not that I don't agree that Awakening is, fundamentally, less complex and arguably less ambitious in terms of individual gameplay systems (what I disagree on is the assessment that this makes the game fundamentally broken), but it's easy to make a game look like it took out a lot when you compare it to all the other games in a franchise well known for how its' introduced, reworked, took out, and reintroduced various gameplay mechanics.

 

[Gestahl]

*shrug* Path of Radiance has something like 22-23 out of the list presented, it's not unreasonable to expect at least half of that list in a completely new game.

 

[dakkumauji]

Feel free to add any I missed! Obviously not all of these are essential and some only appear in a couple chapters in one game, but the actual scale of how much that has been stripped out is kind of hard to believe when you actually start thinking about it.

Missed out on Canto.

And stripped out is really the wrong term used for this. You can't call it removing features if they were only used in one game, 7 games ago. And each 'set' of games always had their own little features and were pretty different from the next.

*shrug* Path of Radiance has something like 22-23 out of the list presented, it's not unreasonable to expect at least half of that list in a completely new game.

They also introduced a bunch of them as well. It's not unheard of especially when you look at your list to see that IS likes experimenting with new features and not always bring them into a new game.

 

[BlackJace]

Yo, are Paralogues unlocked in sporadically? I just went from 4 to 13 and 14 popping up.

 

[dakkumauji]

Yo, are Paralogues unlocked in sporadically? I just went from 4 to 13 and 14 popping up.

Most of them are tied to your female character's relationship status (married or not married).

 

[TWILT]

Yo, are Paralogues unlocked in sporadically? I just went from 4 to 13 and 14 popping up.

For Paralogues 5-16, they'll unlock as you marry the female characters.

 

[Moonlight]

Yo, are Paralogues unlocked in sporadically? I just went from 4 to 13 and 14 popping up.

After chapter 13, most of the Paralogues that are made active are made active through marrying most of the women (and the Avatar). Here's a quick list:

- My Unit
- Cordelia
- Sumia
- Tharja
- Olivia
- Lissa
- Cherche
- Miriel
- Sully
- Maribelle
- Panne
- Nowi

As long as they've got a husband, you'll yield a kid (and an accompanying mission).

EDIT: Haha, beaten twice over.

 

[BlackJace]

Most of them are tied to your female character's relationship status (married or not married).

For Paralogues 5-16, they'll unlock as you marry the female characters.

After chapter 13, most of the Paralogues that are made active are made active through marrying most of the women (and the Avatar). Here's a quick list:

- My Unit
- Cordelia
- Sumia
- Tharja
- Olivia
- Lissa
- Cherche
- Miriel
- Sully
- Maribelle
- Panne
- Nowi

As long as they've got a husband, you'll yield a kid (and an accompanying mission).

EDIT: Haha, beaten twice over.

Oh damn, thanks.

 

[Javier]

*shrug* Path of Radiance has something like 22-23 out of the list presented, it's not unreasonable to expect at least half of that list in a completely new game.

Path of Radiance also took out Gaiden Maps, Branched Paths, Traditional Manaketes, Character Endings, Traversable World Map and several other things that I know I'm forgetting.

I don't think anyone should expect everything to carry over from every game in the series. Specially when a lot of features are designed to only work in a particular game.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

I think this appearing/not appear stuff needs to be in table format...complete with pineapple column. Actually, it might be interesting to do this for several video game franchises as Fire Emblem isn't alone in features and mechanics vanishing.

So I played the demo yesterday. These are going to be 3 of the longest weeks of my life.

I put over 2 hours into the demo. I decided to keep going until I had beaten all the difficulties. My Lunatic play could use some work (seems to me that there should be a difficulty between that and Hard) as Chapter 1 was a complete bloodbath with half my units dead and Chrom on 1 HP, no vulnaries and <100% hit.

Prologue is fairly smooth for the most part once I figured you should one shot the mercenaries (and I guess this is what the 2 extra bandits are there for, to make up the EXP lost).

give me all of your bitter tears, Awakening haters :U

Fire Emblem fans do like to debate merits and flaws of things, that never seems to change. At least it isn't Shadow Dragon levels where it felt like half the people were trolling it (or genuinely hated the direction of it) and the other half were indifferent or busy debating something else. It was at that stage I couldn't stand the heat and left the kitchen so to speak

 

[zroid]

Fire Emblem fans do like to debate merits and flaws of things, that never seems to change. At least it isn't Shadow Dragon levels where it felt like half the people were trolling it (or genuinely hated the direction of it) and the other half were indifferent or busy debating something else. It was at that stage I couldn't stand the heat and left the kitchen so to speak

It's just funny to me because this was my first Fire Emblem so all the heated meta-discussion goes waaay over my head.

 

[Soulhouf]

The Taguel are functionally more similar to Manaketes than Laguz from a gameplay perspective, and of course they're a Tellius only deal that is kind of the point when someone starts talking mad shit about how the only things those games brought back were skills (which should have stayed buried), and I don't think a bunch of supports of varying quality make up for conversations that expanded on the world building in such a way as the Tellius base convos did. They really helped set the narrative for places like Toha and Begnion. Even FE12 had some variation on these, so their absence here is even more pronounced. That post was more responding to Neon's embarrassing smear campaign against the entire series than any sort of comparison between games anyway.

On a completely unrelated note, here are the Sirs and Madams Not Appearing in this Game:

RESCUE (Series Staple)
Sid Meier's Pirates! (Water really doesn't matter in Awakening either) (Like roaches, are everywhere in Fire Emblem)
MAGIC TRIANGLE (Anima Triangle?) (Series Staple)
Destructible Terrain (walls, snags, etc) (In plenty of games)
LIGHT MAGIC (Series Staple)
STATUS EFFECTS (SS)
Status staves (SS)
Defend missions (7-10)
Escape missions (Arrival variant as well)
STEALING (No wonder Gaius gets shit on so much) (SS)
Base Conversations (9-10, 12)
Laguz (9-10)
Crossbows (FE10)
Anima Siege Tomes (SS)
Ballista (SS)
Weather (FE7 only)
Fog of War (SS)
Environmental hazards beyond fire bad (Boulders, pitfalls, gas traps, etc) (6-10 at least)
Opening chapter narration (+ voiced narration) (SS)
Actual Monster Enemy Units (Giant fucking spider > Risen) (FE2, FE8)
Biorhythms (FE9-10)
ELEVATION (should have been the next major evolution in the series) (10)
Ally Units (9-10)
WEAPON WEIGHT (SS)
Constitution (SS)
Capture (FE5 only)
Fatigue (FE5 only)
Accessories (4, 7-10)
Branched Paths (5, 7, 8)
Arenas (+ 12 Training Grounds) (SS)
Bonus Experience (9-10)
Bonus Objectives beyond not letting green units die (Not killing any enemy priests, clear in x turns, escape without being seen, etc)
+ Dismounting (FE3-5)
+ Canto (any version) (SS)
+ Playable Soldiers (9-10)

Staples: 17 (?)

Feel free to add any I missed! Obviously not all of these are essential and some only appear in a couple chapters in one game, but the actual scale of how much that has been stripped out is kind of hard to believe when you actually start thinking about it.

IIRC, in FE4 as well you can capture enemy buildings.

You can also add:
- Change equipped weapon after attacking (FE4&5)
- Being able to deploy every character you have to the battlefield (FE4)
- Having actual weapons and not disposable ones (FE4&5?) you can repair them in the repair shop
- Hidden items (SS)

 

[Gestahl]

The DS remakes get crapped on because there's a lot of weirdly half assed qualities to them. Like in FE3, stat caps were 20, but they're much higher in FE12. A lot of the original character base stats don't really reflect this change however, so half the cast winds up nearly unusable with crummy bases. And Shadow Dragon did about the bare minimum to modernize the original game, while also tacking on an art style most found disagreeable.

FE12 is a much better game of course.

 

[fatgamecat]

See, I don't think it's significantly inferior. I enjoyed the aggressive AI and the lack of choke points. Making them spread apart and defeating them afterwards, or attracting them, taking out the undesired unit type and them countering the others in the enemy's turn, was much more satisfying here than with the defensive enemies of previous games that stupidly moved individually, making counter strategies against them much more obvious. And there were stages with choke points, they just weren't an universal answer everywhere this time. I also liked the changes to the class change system, rather than the completely free system from FE12 that basically gave no consequences to the player. I liked how the game didn't make most characters basically punishment to the player, unlike in FE12's higher difficulties. Yes, there are obviously weaker ones, but no one is unusable to the point that a large part of the cast was in FE12's highest difficulty. The game does reward small parties. But, really that's a universal problem with Fire Emblem. I don't see why people are only pointing fingers to Awakening regarding this issue.

I said they tried to add something new. That doesn't mean it was a huge change. You can find differences in all FEs. Featureless maps with bunches of enemies that all charge you and almost no secondary objectives is a step down in map design. "Multiple objectives" is not a feature exclusive to FE10 or even FE in general. It's a staple of tactics game complexity that rewards multitasking and prioritizing.

The AI in FE12 had individual scripting behavior, including groups of enemies that could not be pulled one at a time, and enemies scripted to move at different triggers or turns, etc. It's far more complex than you're giving it credit for. Awakening's AI only charges the player at once on empty, featureless maps. Class changing in FE12 was far from completely free. Growth rates are still adjusted by class, which significantly alters the final average stats, not to mention weapon level growth. It's better to have a restricted cast list in a difficult tactics game than access to units or features that can trivialize the game's difficulty as in Awakening.

People have completed FE12 Lunatic Reverse prologue with every possible class combination, including the mage, and resetting for RNG growths is not necessary to complete the mode. Earlier FEs did not reward only deploying 1 or 2 out of 14 deployments, you'd be hindering yourself by doing that. You're simply wrong about so many things with FE12 and previous FEs. Have you read any of the 6/10 or 4/10 reviews on gamefaqs? Those go into a lot of accurate detail on why people didn't like Awakening.

 

[CorvoSol]

The DS remakes get crapped on because there's a lot of weirdly half assed qualities to them. Like in FE3, stat caps were 20, but they're much higher in FE12. A lot of the original character base stats don't really reflect this change however, so half the cast winds up nearly unusable with crummy bases. And Shadow Dragon did about the bare minimum to modernize the original game, while also tacking on an art style most found disagreeable.

FE12 is a much better game of course.

I gotta say that, playing through Shadow Dragon right now, the art style is what I find most disagreeable. From the odd half anime half weirdly realistic faces to the weird pseudo 3D models, it all seems rather like art direction was not something they had set in stone for this game.

 

[NeonZ]

I said they tried to add something new. That doesn't mean it was a huge change. You can find differences in all FEs. Featureless maps with bunches of enemies that all charge you and almost no secondary objectives is a step down in map design.

Eh, just because maps lack choke points they aren't featureless. There was clearly thought put behind enemy unit placements and also defensive and obstacle tiles. This isn't FE4 or Gaiden where we often had large "blocks" of enemy units placed on the maps.

The AI in FE12 had individual scripting behavior, including groups of enemies that could not be pulled one at a time, and enemies scripted to move at different triggers or turns, etc. It's far more complex than you're giving it credit for.

Are you even reading my posts? I've already said that Awakening's AI actually was initially implemented in 12. And, yes, it works like that too. In many maps you'll see it actually divided in scripted groups, just like in 12, rather than just everyone rushing at once. That's only the case in challenge battles. Only very few actual story chapters had AI behavior like that, mostly towards the ending too, where even I agree that the map design became unsatisfying.

People have completed FE12 Lunatic Reverse prologue with every possible class combination, including the mage, and resetting for RNG growths is not necessary to complete the mode.

Hm... I really haven't seen it done. I can check that easily enough though, I guess.

Earlier FEs did not reward only deploying 1 or 2 out of 14 deployments, you'd be hindering yourself by doing that.

Yes, they did. In most games a small group of overleveled powerful characters is enough to go through most foes - easier than a larger party with lower levels. There are very few exceptions where it's actually part of the core game design, like FE5, 11 and 12 harder modes. I guess one could point to FE6, but then you're clearly talking about optional content, which you seem to be disregarding when you talk about unit deployment in Awakening.

Edit: Now that I think about it, Radiant Dawn also would need more deployments for parts of the game. The complete lack of balance between different characters and their parties makes the whole thing really variable though.

You're simply wrong about so many things with FE12 and previous FEs. Have you read any of the 6/10 or 4/10 reviews on gamefaqs? Those go into a lot of accurate detail on why people didn't like Awakening.

I haven't read the reviews, but I followed Westbrick's discussions there since the game's launch, and they were just, well... strange? Suspicious?

He was one of the game's first reviewers, playing through the Japanese version and giving really positive impressions about it. However, that opinion completely disappeared once he "revalued" the game alongside its western release, changing to a heavily negative stance regarding it. That still wasn't the end though, he initially blamed the game for being impossible to be finished without grinding, making an extensive discussion about it and Awakening's lack of balance for a straight playthrough, defending that point of view for quite a while. However, a few days after that topic died, he suddenly started another negative discussion about the game, but taking exactly the opposite stance. He now blamed the game for being completely broken and unbalanced, becoming too easy.

I'm sorry, but following him for a long time, he really comes off as someone who was looking for problems in the game by the point it got a western release. How did it take months for him to notice all these problems, and why only explode about them once it got a western release? Even afterwards, when he decided to take a negative stance regarding Awakening, how did he jump from the game being impossibly hard to it being mindlessly easy and wrote two completely contradictory essays about the game (regarding its gameplay)? His position is just too inconsistent. I'm not dismissing his points just to that, but, really, I think the words of most posters here have more value than any review coming from him.

 

[Chrom]

IIRC, in FE4 as well you can capture enemy buildings.

You can also add:
- Change equipped weapon after attacking (FE4&5)
- Being able to deploy every character you have to the battlefield (FE4)
- Having actual weapons and not disposable ones (FE4&5?) you can repair them in the repair shop
- Hidden items (SS)

FE4 is the only game where none of your weapons are disposable, I believe. I want to say FE2 as well, but I don't remember if there was a discard option in that one or not. FE5's slightly more traditional in that you can still have broken weapons, but you can sell or discard them, or repair them with the Repair Staff if you wish.

Hidden items is actually a thing that occurs in almost every game. FE1 (and 11), 2, and 5 don't have them, and FE4 has the hidden events which are effectively the same thing. However, I think FE13 actually does make use of this in Paralogue 14 for the Goddess Staff, so in that case, it's not really true that the game nixed it.

Also, other stuff I remember FE13 not having are third tier promotions (FE2/10), online multiplayer (FE11/12), online shops (FE11/12), Leadership Stars (FE4/5/10), and Movement Stars (FE5).

Edit: Oh, and touch controls (FE11/12), I guess?