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Fire Emblem Awakening |OT| Lord of the RNG

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ohlawd

Member
All three dragons girls are good.

One has a cry rivaling that of Noire. I don't know about you guys but I get turned on immensely when girls cry.
One has the best interactions with all the other characters and she's level headed with a nice sense of humor.
One is well endowed.
 

Gestahl

Member
Personally I feel that spending 20 hours of my life meticulously picking every little stat point to accomplish the same exact goal is not good design either, so there's that.

It's almost like you shouldn't be grinding at all, and that horrible time investment is some kind of....deterrent???/opportunity cost??? for said twisted behavior! Weird!

Yeah, no kidding. How can anyone get "Frederick/Avatar/Nosferatu" break the game out of that screenshot is beyond me.

I'm not going to do an entire playthrough and fucking do a breakdown of every chapter because of some guy on the internet so just go to the Serenes lunatic topic instead if you're in a whiny huff about it. Most people who've actually played Lunatic and abused Nosferatu/Sol/Aether/the rest of the broken mechanics tend to conclude that "yeah this is pretty dumb"

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=37802&st=0

Here I'll even help you out and give you a taste since I know how people react when they see a 40 page topic so have an early release sample post comparing lunatic to FE12's semi competently designed mode:

Enemies having skills that put the player more at the mercy of the RNG, or randomly distributing powerful skills. IS obviously knew Lethality was stupid since enemy Assassins can't get it, but early game Zeal/Gamble basically does the same thing (since if you crit'd, you die unless you're Fred, in which case you're just mostly dead). Patience/Avoid +10 means you can have like 60 hit rates even with no WTD (which pretty much never happens in FE12 unless you screwed up, in FE13 it can happen on turn 1 of Prologue).

Counter is a dumb skill because Warriors are either "Joke enemy no speed no defense no res" or "Most dangerous enemy on the map" based on whether or not they have it, and it's 10x worse when they spawn as reinforcements.

But then on the flip side, the game is much easier to break, late game strategies can basically consist of "Throw unit that has Nosferatu/Sol/a billion avoid into group of enemies" whereas the only time this would ever happen in FE12 is midgame if you have a really overleveled unit, and even then they can still die. Most Axe users never have respectable hit on Lon'qu and other sword users with decent avoid, and for a good portion of the game it's not uncommon for units like Lon'qu, Gregor, and Panne to face very low hit rates from most enemies thanks to stupid skill combinations and tons of speed (Avoid+10 + Patience, Even Bio+Tantivy+Quickburn+Swordbreaker).

In FE12, the power level of enemies vs. PCs is roughly the same throughout. They 2-3HKO you at high hit rates, but you can do the same back, and (usually) you will also double them. In this game, after Ch. 4 or so, your units quickly start to outstrip enemies in power, primarily due to Pair Up. But Pair Up is so strong, that without it, you're just too weak. Hard but fair.

After Chapter 16 or so, I felt less like I was using strategy and more deciding which of Panne, Morgan, or MU would be best to throw into a particular pack of enemies. And this was my first playthrough of the game, which was pretty much blind other than knowing what skills you got from which class.

Or how about this late thread post where some guy put a ton of arbitrary restrictions on himself and then found out that apparently Panne is a goddamn monster jesus christ all that avoid

OK, I finished my challenge run this morning. These were the restrictions: no purchasable Nosferatu (I didn't preclude the possibility of the one freebie tome, but I never wound up using it), no Sol skill (again, I didn't preclude the possibility of the dropped sword, but in practice I needed neither the skill nor the sword), no Veteran, no Renown/Wi-Fi anything, no skirmishes, no event tile items or weapons, no Rally Spectrum. Also, full deployment was required in every level in an attempt to prevent tiny teams from trivializing the game (though I can't say this worked all too well; a Second Seal ban would have done more to prevent this), and also to make stages like Ch 21 more interesting. There may have been more restrictions, but those are the ones I remember. Avatar was not allowed to engage in combat if she was Paired during Prologue through Ch 2, inclusive; as soon as Ch 3 began, I removed Veteran and allowed her to fight while Paired. My restrictions did not preclude children Paralogues, but I wound up not having to go to any of them. Chrom finished the campaign at 20 Lord/11? Great Lord, which ought to establish that there was no real Aether abuse.

The game still felt really imbalanced, though, largely because of Panne, whose Wind/bow weakness can be played around really easily due to her high HP, high Def, and respectable Res, along with Physic staves and her high Avoid (aided by an S support from Lon'qu as well as Quick Burn, Tantivy, and Even Rhythm). There is a good case for her being even stronger than non-Nosferatu, Veteran-using Avatar in a leisurely playthrough, as she trades bow/Wind weaknesses in exchange for being much more durable against everything else; Avatar won't have the Avoid-stacking options that Panne does if Avatar remains in magic-using classes.

The main reason I didn't ban Panne at the start was that I didn't want the run to be too challenging; I wanted it to be hard enough to be engaging, but not so hard as to make me pull out my hair (unfortunately, it was not much more challenging than a typical run, which just goes to show how unbalanced Lunatic is). From what Interceptor has shown, however, I feel like banning Panne could be worked around pretty easily by investing in Nowi. Banning Second Seals entirely can prevent both Panne and Nowi from trivializing the game, but there are probably other tricks that you could use, such as pumping all statboosters on a single unit to approach stat caps, or by getting children with good skillsets (such as Severa with Rally Def from Kellam and Rally Spd from Cordelia). rsteube on GameFAQs claims to have done the game without Second Seals and with "only one Master Seal [on each character]," and I believe him; things like Rally Spectrum and Naga's Tear, neither of which he seems to have banned in his run from what I've read, can really trivialize the game in addition to having good Rallybots like the aforementioned Severa.

But nah Awakening's balance is fine
 

Kincaido

Got 99 problems and only one of them is a waifu
Nowi is adorable, but I can't bring myself to waifu her. Nah and Tiki though. Would. Especially Tiki <3
 

Gestahl

Member
Yeah so I made my Main Character marry Panne. I wonder if that'll end up biting me in the ass lol

If your Avatar has speed as an asset, Panne and Yarne will be going Super Sonic in no time.

On an unrelated note I've been reading the TearRing Saga LP over on somethingawful and it's kind of like watching Kaga's mind slowly unravel, it's surreal how nonsensical it gets.
 

BlackJace

Member
If your Avatar has speed as an asset, Panne and Yarne will be going Super Sonic in no time.

Nah, my Avatar has HP asset. I liked Panne's character so I paired them up. I then found out how great she is as a partner.

Also, is Panne human, but with the ability to shapeshift, or is she a beast with human like qualities? If its the latter, how do the kids work out? o_O
 

Gestahl

Member
Nah, my Avatar has HP asset. I liked Panne's character so I paired them up. I then found out how great she is as a partner.

Also, is Panne human, but with the ability to shapeshift, or is she a beast with human like qualities? If its the latter, how do the kids work out? o_O

I'm not even sure if she wears pants so don't ask me
 

ffdgh

Member
I married Panne too. Robin's strength/luck flaw plus her speed/skill on hero Yarne/Morgan is soo good.

Oh and that is definetly fur on both of them....which would mean they're essentially nude but whateves lol.
 

BlackJace

Member
I'm really impressed by the map designs. Each and every one is memorable and absolutely beautiful.
I think my fav so far is either the Ylisse manor or Port Ferox.
 

Javier

Member
It's almost like you shouldn't be grinding at all, and that horrible time investment is some kind of....deterrent???/opportunity cost??? for said twisted behavior! Weird!


I'm not going to do an entire playthrough and fucking do a breakdown of every chapter because of some guy on the internet so just go to the Serenes lunatic topic instead if you're in a whiny huff about it. Most people who've actually played Lunatic and abused Nosferatu/Sol/Aether/the rest of the broken mechanics tend to conclude that "yeah this is pretty dumb"

http://serenesforest.net/forums/inde...pic=37802&st=0

Here I'll even help you out and give you a taste since I know how people react when they see a 40 page topic so have an early release sample post comparing lunatic to FE12's semi competently designed mode:


Or how about this late thread post where some guy put a ton of arbitrary restrictions on himself and then found out that apparently Panne is a goddamn monster jesus christ all that avoid


But nah Awakening's balance is fine
Geez, dude, chill. I really don't get why you're getting so worked up about.

I've read most of that thread. I post at that forum, you know. Everything that's mentioned there is pretty much par for the course for this series. Once you know what's coming to you it's not hard at all to make things easier, and a lot of people there weren't doing a first run of the game. A lot played it first on Hard, which does give a good look of what to expect on Lunatic.

Yes, one guy claims he did a first run in Lunatic and found the game imbalanced. But he also mentions there are several things quite hard about the game like still relying severely on the RNG to save your ass because enemies have very dangerous skills. He also mentions the game doesn't get easy until Ch.16, which is past the halfway mark, which, I agree, the game gets a lot easier after that, not only because you should have quite a powerful couple of units by that time, but also because you should be used to the game mechanics by then.

The game has quite a few ways to make it easier, yes. But I still think you need to try out Lunatic yourself before claiming how broken it is.

Also, if I had to rank this game in terms of broken-ness, I'd say FE4, FE5, FE8, FE9, FE10, and FE11 are all easier to break.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Lunatic Classic in 1 hours 15 minutes?

O____O

I bet he/she allowed people to get killed to save time and I am also willing to bet a Ferrari that the game clock doesn't account to him/her restarting to get a more favorable RNG.

I am willing to reckon it is strictly 100% impossible to finish Lunatic Classic in that amount of timeframe in one straight playthrough without various restarts and such.
 

Gestahl

Member
Function over form I'd say.

The maps look good but that's it.

Yeah one of the main problems with Awakening is that the maps, besides being terrible bland squares, simply don't give you any reason not to just mash the start button with your Sorceror/Super Unit. In FE9 the Ike/Oscar combo might be beastly but there are so many side and bonus objectives during chapters ie villages, recruiting characters, defense maps and time limits and so on, that it winds up being more efficient and convenient to just field a fully trained team more often than not.
 

NeonZ

Member
Yeah one of the main problems with Awakening is that the maps, besides being terrible bland squares, simply don't give you any reason not to just mash the start button with your Sorceror/Super Unit. In FE9 the Ike/Oscar combo might be beastly but there are so many side and bonus objectives during chapters ie villages, recruiting characters, defense maps and time limits and so on, that it winds up being more efficient and convenient to just field a fully trained team more often than not.

If you're disregarding Awakening's optional content, you can just go ahead with Ike during most of PoR and disregard everything there too without problems. If you're minimizing character use to that point, bonus exp and most optional items and recruits become utterly pointless too. Really, most Fire Emblems tend to suffer from that. Focusing on a few units ends up giving better results than a more balanced party if you don't care about optional items and objectives.

The ones that don't suffer from that, like FE 12's harder difficulties, suffer from having only a small selection of truly usable characters.

Also, regarding Awakening having "box maps". It's like you're only looking at the four final maps. Yes, it's disappointing that the final few maps were uninspired, but most of the game wasn't really like that. Besides, previous games had tons of choke points that basically only favor the player and AI units that basically only advanced when the player wished to, unless they were reinforcements (Although this was fixed in FE12 and Awakening just kept it).
 

BlackJace

Member
Nope. Out of all the FEs I've played, this game's maps are trash tier.

edit: dang, Gestahl, is there anything we don't agree on? :p

Havent noticed it really, only about halfway. They do seem to be designed for the enemy more than often, though. Also forts are kind of useless so far.
 

Gestahl

Member
Nope. Out of all the FEs I've played, this game's maps are trash tier.

edit: dang, Gestahl, is there anything we don't agree on? :p

I think the guy Roguelike on somethingawful who did a no pair up Lunatic run said it best when he said that (most of this concerns the maps and encounter design)

It's terrible. I don't know if it's the crazy enemy count, the inflated caps, the no chokepoint flat table levels or the fact that every, single enemy has a ranged weapon, but the last half of the game seems to naturally devolve into a handful of super units. In my first lunatic run it was sorcerers and then in my no pair up run it was manaketes, but it was fundamentally the same problem. There were too many enemies and no way to manage them, so you end up just hoping your stats/skills are good enough and deploying your super units like some sort of Metal Gear to rule the battlefield. Which, uh, doesn't feel very fire emblemy to me.

I think the decision to make every level a 'the enemy rushes you' map was a mistake. Because every enemy rushes you, and there are so many of them, the weapon triangle quickly ceases to matter at all. Mages, archers, and tomahawk guys merge together into a rolling blob of death that doesn't really care about +-1 damage or +- 15 hit. Oddly, the ship level and the volcano level are actually nice in that they kind of avoid this problem since you can position your guys to defend against the flyers because the lava/ship walls can be passed over but not actually occupied. But by the time the Walhart level rolls around, it's like the level designers just gave up.

Unit roles seem super blurred too. Knights can no longer reliably hold a chokepoint because there's bound to be a mage or two in the mix. Mages are stunningly good because of their ability to reliably kill at any range, especially since you really need to be killing on counterattack since the next wave of enemies is only one round behind the wave that just showed up. You can't use flying units to pick off stray units because there are no stray units. Every enemy adheres strictly to the triple buddy system, two of whom are almost guaranteed to have a bow.

That's not to say the other games in the series didn't have wonky balance issues too (I'm looking at you, Radiant Dawn), but these issues in particular make the game seem less like a Fire Emblem game. Which is too bad, because I really like Fire Emblem games.

This one post is basically my bible when it comes to Awakening

vvvvvvvI've never watched them and I can't imagine watching someone else play a strategy game be interesting but his Awakening twitch streams are on this channel http://www.twitch.tv/roguelike/videos?kind=past_broadcasts
 

ffdgh

Member
....Awakening is my first fire emblemand I adore it. That aside, thats a very accurate descripton of what happens on many maps lol. Ooo I'll use my great knight :D, lol nope mages. Ooo lets use aflying unit :D, lol nope mages and archers. Woo i'm close to the end of the map :D, lol nope reinforcements.

I also like the way he described the weapin triangle because it's true XD.
 

Gestahl

Member
I fucking hate, hate, hate how reinforcements spawn at the beginning of the enemy's phase.

They're fine when the boss starts cackling about how much trouble you're going to be in in a couple of turns, but when they start spawning falcoknights and other fliers out of the ether it gets pretty bullshit. Thank christ there are no 12 move wyverns in this one
 

ffdgh

Member
That's how it should be :p

This game does tell you they're coming though so you can bunker down and hope for the best.

Except for that chapter
on the boats

Seroulsly one set of flyers for four seperate turns from every side? lol jerks
 

ohlawd

Member
Forgot that one. Just one instance though? We can let that slide.

They should have come out all at the same time. And add another set for NW, NE, SW and SE directions. Would have been a lot funner.
 

CorvoSol

Member
It's almost like you shouldn't be grinding at all, and that horrible time investment is some kind of....deterrent???/opportunity cost??? for said twisted behavior! Weird!

That's bullshit and you know it. Let's go back to my example, Pokemon. You HAVE to grind because there are 600 someodd Pokemon, and some don't evolve until level 60, and you NEVER gain 5000 EXP. EVER. The game WANTS you to evolve that Pokemon, but you have to spend hours getting it up those levels to do it. If programmers didn't want you reaching a level or learning a skill, they WOULD NOT PUT IT IN A GAME. We're not talking freaky glitches netting you level 300 Magnemites, we're talking something that's supposed to be within the parameters of play.

Deterrent? Come on. Grinding is poor, no-thought design and always has been.
 

ffdgh

Member
Hmm? Have you played black and white and or their sequels? Exp is easy to get especially with those free lucky eggs in all four games.

It's possible to get 100k exp for a level 1 pokemon via a chansey in bw2 lol
 

Gestahl

Member
Deterrent? Come on. Grinding is poor, no-thought design and always has been.

Agreed, It's a shame they brought it back in Awakening

vvvvYou know what these horrible capped stat 2rko behemoths really need??? 2 range. The last room in chapter 22 is basically impossible to complete conventionally.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
The *suddenly appearing and immediately move* reinforcements in this game doesn't really bother me. unlike in FE12 with its fucking wyverns and dragons. Especially in Lunatic where they got upgraded attack range, such bullshit.
 

CorvoSol

Member
Hmm? Have you played black and white and or their sequels? Exp is easy to get especially with those free lucky eggs in all four games.

It's possible to get 100k exp for a level 1 pokemon via a chansey in bw2 lol

I haven't played B2W2 yet, but 100K exp for a level 1 Pokemon isn't the problem. The problem is struggling to get 3K for a level 50.

Agreed, It's a shame they brought it back in Awakening

Not if it doesn't cost me 20 hours to do it isn't.
 

Kincaido

Got 99 problems and only one of them is a waifu
Just don't grind at all if you're one of them people that don't want to do it. It's not like it's forced. Geez. Also, FE5 reinforcements are amazing.
 
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