Support NeoGAF

[Akuun]

Nice, just got 4758 on arena assault. Got lucky and had a map or two that could be carried by one or two units.

I'm not saying that tier lists are stupid or making a slight against the people that made them. I just mean that they aren't really helpful to me. The tier list may certainly be correct about what units are the absolute best in the game when taken to their max potential, but that's not really the question I'm asking in my head when I look at a tier list.

When I look at tier lists, I'm mostly going "what's a good unit I should consider boosting with what I have on hand?" I'm looking for units that are valuable on their own and can be made better with a reasonable amount of investment (all of which are factors that are entirely subjective to my situation, and obviously can't be accurately gauged by a tier list). So I treat it as something of a buyer's guide. But looking at a tier list that assumes I'm a whale is like looking for a list of recommended car purchases and finding a list of the absolute fastest supercars in the world. Sure, that list may be accurate, but it's not really helpful for what I'm looking for.

That's why I just use a calculator and figure things out myself. Tier lists of "the best units" are fun to look at, but they aren't really applicable to my needs. Not that I expect lists to cater to individual situations, but it would be nice if there were lists that didn't assume that the player is willing to throw multiple 5* sacrifices into everything.

 

[Freaking Limit]

Nice, just got 4758 on arena assault. Got lucky and had a map or two that could be carried by one or two units.

I'm not saying that tier lists are stupid or making a slight against the people that made them. I just mean that they aren't really helpful to me. The tier list may certainly be correct about what units are the absolute best in the game when taken to their max potential, but that's not really the question I'm asking in my head when I look at a tier list.

When I look at tier lists, I'm mostly going "what's a good unit I should consider boosting with what I have on hand?" I'm looking for units that are valuable on their own and can be made better with a reasonable amount of investment (all of which are factors that are entirely subjective to my situation, and obviously can't be accurately gauged by a tier list). So I treat it as something of a buyer's guide. But looking at a tier list that assumes I'm a whale is like looking for a list of recommended car purchases and finding a list of the absolute fastest supercars in the world. Sure, that list may be accurate, but it's not really helpful for what I'm looking for.

That's why I just use a calculator and figure things out myself. Tier lists of "the best units" are fun to look at, but they aren't really applicable to my needs. Not that I expect lists to cater to individual situations, but it would be nice if there were lists that didn't assume that the player is willing to throw multiple 5* sacrifices into everything.

This is probably a good point. Who is the tier list for? Unlike most tier lists I've ever used, there isn't really any guarantee that you can ever get the character skilled out as what earned them that tier. Defense ploy is a good example. Anyone who didn't get it, can't get it any more, making tiers using that skill as a basis meaningless to them (which I feel is a lot of people). The massive flexibility in FEH isn't the issue, but instead the fact there is no guarantee you will ever get a skill to finish a character is. As it is now, the tier list isn't really helping anyone outside of the whales, the lucky and the theory crafters. Where should the average player go to get advise or recommended builds for their characters on more budget like builds?

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Def Ploy was just an odd skill to introduce to the game via a seasonal unit. It's unique and adds a new wrinkle to the game. At least do it like Cancel Affintiy or Firesweep Lance where they can be gained from units at 4* now.

 

[Busaiku]

Def Ploy was just an odd skill to introduce to the game via a seasonal unit. It's unique and adds a new wrinkle to the game. At least do it like Cancel Affintiy or Firesweep Lance where they can be gained from units at 4* now.

Swift Sparrow was exclusive to Spring Lucina for a while.
Maybe next month or something.

 

[Freaking Limit]

Def Ploy was just an odd skill to introduce to the game via a seasonal unit. It's unique and adds a new wrinkle to the game. At least do it like Cancel Affintiy or Firesweep Lance where they can be gained from units at 4* now.

I think the problem is this isn't the first time they've done this, and we can expect it to not be the last. Swift Sparrow did make it into the regular pool, but the other skills from the spring event still haven't, even if they are unimportant for the most part. I'm not sure if we can say all skills will come back, and we don't know when they will. I expect it to though, but I'd wager most people will find it unfair to rank characters based on limited skills that are locked behind low odd RNG. At least with normal pool characters, there is always a chance.

I'm still waiting on Faye to be dropped to 4* so I can get her and more of her bow >.>

 

[SenorArdilla]

Ok, so then it's Clive; didn't know we had to fight them after the catalog.

Also, Dragons are weak to both Naga/Falchion and Poison Dagger.
Just why.

When they add in Myrrh, she'll be weak to bows instead.

 

[dreamlongdead]

It's ok I will compensate your post with 250 Orbs for only a worst IV Seliph on Hero Fest. It feels like FFRK all over again, me equalizing the super lucky posts with my shit ass luck.

What? How are doing your pulls?

I know you didn't get that Seliph on the very last of your Orbs. If you have a high pity counter, then you still have time to reset it.

 

[lt519]

I use Gamepress, as a non-whale I appreciate their multiple build approach. Showing what the optimal unlimited resource build would be (with some sub-optimal options) and alternatively giving budget builds that often keep a couple of the original skills when you don't want to grind a lot of SP for a back up character.

Tier lists are really subjective especially in a game when you can literally rebuild a character as anything. Raw stats at this point in the game are the only thing that distinguish characters minus the few legendary weapons. Tier lists are mostly just a listing of the best stat spread characters in the game and then the ones with legendary weapons tend to bubble up towards the top (distant counter weapons, Celica, legion, etc)

 

[SolarKnight]

Where should the average player go to get advise or recommended builds for their characters on more budget like builds?

Well ideally looking at the builds section and discussing with the community are what someone interested would actually do

Tier lists are really subjective especially in a game when you can literally rebuild a character as anything. Raw stats at this point in the game are the only thing that distinguish characters minus the few legendary weapons. Tier lists are mostly just a listing of the best stat spread characters in the game and then the ones with legendary weapons tend to bubble up towards the top (distant counter weapons, Celica, legion, etc)

If the characters really are 90% just numbers at this point I'm pretty sure that makes a tier list less subjective if anything.

 

[explodet]

Okay look Merric, I know you want to help and all, but I don't need four of you at 4* when I've got a perfectly good and leveled 5*.

 

[lt519]

If the characters really are 90% just numbers at this point I'm pretty sure that makes a tier list less subjective if anything.

Yeah, poor wording on my part. Tier lists aren't a bad thing, it can certainly help someone new decide if they should build a Nino or a Raigh. But I do agree they lose their meaning for the average player when you assume unlimited SI resources. It'd be interesting to see tier lists for different levels of SI. One for full SI, one for no SI, one for moderate SI (cap it at like 40k feathers and 1600 SP).

 

[Tripon]

This game was so close to getting me to spend real money on this shit.
But I got a focus hero right before I ran out of orbs. 160 orbs (and $13 in google survey money) went in to get this Ninian (+spd/-hp)

 

[Sushen]

Judging from what I went through and what's posted here, I get the impression that this new percentage system isn't quite working out so far. While I do get more 4* units but 5* seems harder to come by even with 5-6 or higher pity rates. I rarely hit over 5% before. I'll wait until RNG god gets into a better mood.

 

[MiguelMexMIstery]

I was hoping for a 5* in my free pull like last time but nah, only 4* and 3*

 

[DTJAAAAM]

Yeah, I did, but I don't have a silhouette.
So if that last ? isn't him, I dunno.

Did you fight him before the Catalog of Heroes was added to the app? If so you need to redo that mission.

 

[PK Gaming]

Shamelessly stolen from reddit:

So accurate

 

[dreamlongdead]

This game was so close to getting me to spend real money on this shit.
But I got a focus hero right before I ran out of orbs. 160 orbs (and $13 in google survey money) went in to get this Ninian (+spd/-hp)

Amazing stats on the Ninian! Made the Orbs worth it.

 

[Kitoro]

Alright.. I'm training up my Horse Emblem team, and have got my +Atk/-Def Cecilia Gronnblade+'d and ready for action.

Only problem is, I'm not sure what C Skills to give to everyone to maximize the effectiveness of Gronnblade+...

I recall hearing that buffs that only increase stats during combat don't power up Gronnblade+, so I'm assuming Reinhardt's Goad Cavalry buff will have to be replaced, and that I'd want to try and get Goad Cavalry over to Cecilia instead, is that right?

I'm using:

Reinhardt (+Atk/-Def)
Cecilia (+Atk/-Def)
Xander (Neutral)
Elise (+Atk/-Def with Wrathful Staff)

What C Skills would you recommend for each? Thank you so much, everyone!

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Alright.. I'm training up my Horse Emblem team, and have got my +Atk/-Def Cecilia Gronnblade+'d and ready for action.

Only problem is, I'm not sure what C Skills to give to everyone to maximize the effectiveness of Gronnblade+...

I recall hearing that buffs that only increase stats during combat don't power up Gronnblade+, so I'm assuming Reinhardt's Goad Cavalry buff will have to be replaced, and that I'd want to try and get Goad Cavalry over to Cecilia instead, is that right?

I'm using:

Reinhardt (+Atk/-Def)
Cecilia (+Atk/-Def)
Xander (Neutral)
Elise (+Atk/-Def with Wrathful Staff)

What C Skills would you recommend for each? Thank you so much, everyone!

You're assumption is correct. Get Goad off Rein and to Cecilia via Camus.

Optimally I would do

Reinhardt - Fortify
Cecilia - Goad
Xander - Hone
Elise - Hone

Edit: I also like draw back on the mages and Swap on Xander.

 

[Kitoro]

Thank you, MiO!

Also, you said Hone Cavalry on both Xander and Elise, but would Hone Cavalry buff Cecilia twice so long as Xander and Elise are adjacent to her?

 

[PK Gaming]

Can't a tier list also just be wrong because it's tabulated by a few people, no matter how qualified? It's ironic that you suggest that reactions to the tier list comprise an echo chamber when the same accusation can be slung against the people who made the tier list. And that's not necessarily a slight against the tier list committee, but that goes for any insular committee that doesn't seek outside feedback for their own conclusions, of which there are many.

The biggest issue with the tier list is that it assumes characters in a 1v1 battling scenario without any buffs, any teammates, any synergies, and with debuff activated. Also only in an Arena setting.

These are a lot of qualifiers, which begs the question, what exactly is the tier list showing me and what real world application does it have? Further, who is it catered to? If we're assuming that a tier list should only consider the most optimal builds regardless of cost (which I totally agree with), it has little use to new players. And arguably it has little use to anyone since no one is in a 1v1 situation in Fire Emblem Heroes except for those cheesing the new Arena Assault for items.

To answer the bolded, buffs and team synergy are absolutely considered for the tier list. It does not exclusively consider 1v1 battling, considering skills like Wings of Mercy are consistently mentioned in the writeups, and Reposition is practically expected.

It's a tier list, so it's not really catered to anyone in particular, focusing primarily on the arena format. It values units who are good at killing / avoiding death (ie: units that are conducive to a higher score) and punishes units that are not.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Thank you, MiO!

Also, you said Hone Cavalry on both Xander and Elise, but would Hone Cavalry buff Cecilia twice so long as Xander and Elise are adjacent to her?

Hone and fortify anything don't stack. I just like Hone Calvary on two units so that both Xander and Elise get the buff and So that either Elise or Xander can buff Reinhardt at the same time as well.

So you could form your units so that they are in a box

1 2
3 4

1 being Cecilia, 2 being Xander, 3 Reinhardt, and 4 being Elise.

In this formation and because you are running two hone Calvaries every unit gets the Hone buff and the two mages get a much needed fortify buff. You can also switch Elise and Xander at number 4 if you need to ready him for attack instead. Even if you can't run this box because of terrain you still have an extra Hone to get over to Reinhardt even if that hone is not buffing anything else, something Elise will come in handy for time to time.

 

[Roman]

Well ideally looking at the builds section and discussing with the community are what someone interested would actually do

I cannot stress this enough. A general tier list has no information on what the respective player has available for resources, so the best way to receive help is to reach out to the community.

The build and strategy pages on the wiki are in poor shape but now that we've published the (more controversial than even we expected) tier list, we can continue our work on those.

Helping the playerbase out, especially new players, has always been our goal - it is a bit disheartening to read accusations in other places that we intentionally set out to mislead.

 

[toastyToast]

The Tempest banner is way too good and I'm out of orbs. The the amount of good mages you pull right now is kind of crazy

 

[Shouta]

Man, I haven't had much luck pulling stuff in this but I got Ike in 8 orbs. Thanks free summon.

 

[Alucrid]

i think this is the longest i've played a mobile game for. fell off of p&d, terra battle, bouncing pinball monster game, etc. really fast. quite happy that this game doesn't really have a grind to get units who can do end game content.

 

[Mathematics]

First Tharja ever. -ATK +SPD.
I also got the Sonya I wanted. +DEF -RES.

Fury builds for both are the norm? Got some SI fodder to burn. 4* Roderick will be sitting in this box for a long time while I figure out what I want to do with him

 

[CuthbertAllgoodz]

What? How are doing your pulls?

I know you didn't get that Seliph on the very last of your Orbs. If you have a high pity counter, then you still have time to reset it.

Not sure I understand your post. Did not open blue or green because I have Ninian and Julia. I got Seliph as my first 5* on the banner after 250 Orbs if not more. Opened the rest of the circle since the pity rate was through the roof and the others were crap.

 

[kewlmyc]

So what happened with the tier list and why is everyone losing their shit?

 

[MildSoss]

So what happened with the tier list and why is everyone losing their shit?

That's what I was wondering too. I checked reddit today and it's nothing but def ploy memes, seems like the tier update broke them. lol

 

[champloo]

IMO Defense Ploy is a weird reason for Est to be a tier above Hinoka, or to justify the bump on a handful of other units. It's not like Hinoka can't capitalize on a debuffed enemy, she just need someone else to apply the ploy for her, which isn't much different. (I use Sonya to apply Res Ploy for Nowi to reap the result all the time)

overall the new tier list seems pretty good and informative, I feel people are just overreacting to Est, who is usually considered an unwanted unit, being high tier.

 

[commish]

So what happened with the tier list and why is everyone losing their shit?

Some idiot lowered Julia in the tier rankings. The populace revolted.

 

[Sushen]

Ok, here is the team that I'm working
Nowi with triangle adept and QR
Ninian with triangle adept so that she can actually kill someone
M Marth with fury and renewal for green check and as a medic

The last one, I originally thought Sonya, but I felt melee attacker may balance the team better. So, I'm considering Titania.

Her attack output lacks, but she's pretty tanky like the rest of the team. I may even give her DC once I finally decide.

Last piece is whether to have her axe breaker for Hector or g tome breaker for green mages. What's your opinion on this?

 

[Wiseblade]

Ok, here is the team that I'm working
Nowi with triangle adept and QR
Ninian with triangle adept so that she can actually kill someone
M Marth with fury and renewal for green check and as a medic

The last one, I originally thought Sonya, but I felt melee attacker may balance the team better. So, I'm considering Titania.

Her attack output lacks, but she's pretty tanky like the rest of the team. I may even give her DC once I finally decide.

Last piece is whether to have her axe breaker for Hector or g tome breaker for green mages. What's your opinion on this?

I don't think she's taking on Hector regardless, so Green Tomebreaker is likely the better call. Unless you're also giving her a hammer...

 

[spiritfox]

Ok, here is the team that I'm working
Nowi with triangle adept and QR
Ninian with triangle adept so that she can actually kill someone
M Marth with fury and renewal for green check and as a medic

The last one, I originally thought Sonya, but I felt melee attacker may balance the team better. So, I'm considering Titania.

Her attack output lacks, but she's pretty tanky like the rest of the team. I may even give her DC once I finally decide.

Last piece is whether to have her axe breaker for Hector or g tome breaker for green mages. What's your opinion on this?

That's 4 melee units. You sure about that?

 

[Sushen]

That's 4 melee units. You sure about that?

Frankly, not, but I dragged Titania in because dragons are magic attack and Marth is only physical... I expect the flow will be mostly countering enemy attacks. Not sure if it works, though.

 

[firehawk12]

I haven't played the game for ages but saw the free draws advertised. Did they finally change it so that you are guaranteed a 5* drop from the gacha now? Are any of these any good?

 

[Tripon]

I haven't played the game for ages but saw the free draws advertised. Did they finally change it so that you are guaranteed a 5* drop from the gacha now? Are any of these any good?

All of them are good, depending on your needs. Celicia works best on a horse emblem team.

 

[firehawk12]

All of them are good, depending on your needs. Celicia works best on a horse emblem team.

Hrm, I'm not sure. These are my other 5*s from ages ago:

I'm not really sure what to do with the dupe Camilla. Also are 4*s any good?

 

[GuardianE]

To answer the bolded, buffs and team synergy are absolutely considered for the tier list. It does not exclusively consider 1v1 battling, considering skills like Wings of Mercy are consistently mentioned in the writeups, and Reposition is practically expected.

It's a tier list, so it's not really catered to anyone in particular, focusing primarily on the arena format. It values units who are good at killing / avoiding death (ie: units that are conducive to a higher score) and punishes units that are not.

When asked about the Dancer rating, one of the contributors specifically stated "The Tier list is more catered to individual performance rather than in a team setting." And further, the preface to the list says "Ratings are based on individual unit performance and versatility, without factoring in skill inheritance." If this is not correct, then maybe it should be reworded.

I'm not surprised that the write-ups discuss things like Repositon and Wings of Mercy because it's pretty much impossible to discuss anything in-depth about a character's function without looking into the assist or support function since there are characters specifically designed for that role. Which is why the tier list feels so inconsistent if the main focus is going to be individual values. It's a mixed message at the very least.

 

[RedCoyote]

I haven't played the game for ages but saw the free draws advertised. Did they finally change it so that you are guaranteed a 5* drop from the gacha now? Are any of these any good?

• Cecilia is an outstanding unit if you give her buffs and especially Gronnblade. She's one of the four green cavalry units in the game, and the only one with a tome, so she's unique and very potent.
• Ninian is a dancer, automatically making her useful.
• Male Corrin is well-rounded, giving you options to focus more on offense, defense, or stay in the middle ground for multiple situations.
• Gunter is essential for skill inheritance in a cavalry team (Hone Cavalry). As a unit, he's pretty much a lesser version of Frederick.
• Cain has Wings of Mercy 3 for skill inheritance, which goes great on a dancer, armored unit, and many others. Cain also has the best offensive base stats for red cavalry.
• Mathilda has the unique Cancel Affinity ability, though she has to be 5* to pass the full version (neutralizes enemy's weapon triangle advantage completely if they are using Triangle Adept or a gem weapon like Ruby Sword). Lots of blue cavalry so I dunno if she's a stand-out as a unit, but she's certainly not garbage.
• Hawkeye has Threaten Attack 3, which can be extremely useful, especially if using Heavy Blade (Ike's skill). Hawkeye also has great Def and Res for an axe user. Giving him Arthur's Emerald Axe can make him practically invulnerable to blue units.
• Odin has Blarblade, Moonbow, and Red Tomebreaker, all of which are very useful. Most people consider him trash as a unit though since his Atk is garbage.
• As for the rest, most are good for quests here and there or at least skill inheritance.

 

[Drkirby]

So Est is now the best unit. Strange times we live in.

 

[spiritfox]

Ooh Att Ploy seal at 20k score. Also more rewards in the upper score levels. Well just crystals and feathers.

 

[SenorArdilla]

I guess I'll feed my extra S.Fred to Gaius for Seashell+.

 

[kuroneko0509]

oh they actually change the reward structure again

 

[Ninferno]

This tier list talk is really silly. I think the gamepedia people are already trying to do their best; you have the pre-SI list to access units' out-of-the-box quality, and you have the post-SI list for maximum potential. And I agree with them that you have to go to these two extremes as there's no common middle-ground and nobody can establish an absolute standard for "moderate SI", because god knows what units you have pulled. I do agree though, that the optimal SI list is not applicable to people like me who do not have unlimited resources, which is probably the case for like 99% of the player base. So yeah, the list is not very useful to 99% of the players, so what? That doesn't make it wrong; that only means you should either not care about it too much, or you read the description carefully and see if you have the resources to realize the said "optimal" build. As an F2P, I only use the list as an amusement and see what kind of the latest creative builds there are, even if I can't have them. The problem is not whether the list has a fair rule; it is how it is meant to be consumed.

I think the gamepedia people are doing a great job, and if I have to disagree with something on the new update it will actually be Eirika's placement (raising my flame shield now). I used to run her and I still do occasionally, and I have the usual rally def + fortify res seal setup. However with the Emblem buffs being so prominent now, the sole reason of being a buff-bot (which is inferior to the Emblem buffs anyway) is not enough to put you into S tier. I just can't see her having more strategic value than a dancer now. CA jeopardizing dancers' gem weapon? Oh come on, will you have any of your green and red give up their B slots for CA? Not even Hector. I can see CA jeopardizing TA Raven because of Bridelia, but not dancer gem weapon.

 

[Ninferno]

Tempest awards seem to contain more orbs this time? Not bad.

Tripe point is legit the best thing ever, and the stat boost for bonus character too. With that boost, even my newly found, mostly ignored -SPD Delthea can be a beast after some more buffs. Dammit! I could have had so much fun with a boosted Celica obliterating every single enemy every single map. Damn you Tempest banner for denying me that.

I think this stupid ass grind can be a little bit more manageable this time around.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

Damn it Hectors are back in the final map. :/

 

[spiritfox]

But Eirika is not just a buffbot, she can be a decent fighter too, especially with her standard kit of TA+Swordbreaker.

Edit: lol Gray is getting 24sp per kill.

 

[toastyToast]

Wow Sonya is a beast. Celica couldn't kill her then I get rest by vantage.

The nice thing is units that you beat stay gone if you try again. It was just Sonya with 20 HP