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[Anton Sugar]

Yeah, I did. I was thinking the strength would build muscle and the cardio would cut the fat, since I've got a decent layer of fat on me. I'm like 5' 9" 165.

You're staying I'll see better results, aesthetically, to hold off on the cardio and just focusing on hitting the gym 3 times a week?

Yeah dawg, for sure. Don't even bother with cardio right now. At 5'9" and 165 lbs, you sounds like you're, at worst, skinny fat. Lifting weights is the best answer for that for most people. Just lifting will help burn some calories, and the muscle you gain will also help lean you out.

 

[Petrie]

I don't see any problem with a machine workout for a beginner. Like I said before, you'll still get your ass kicked when you switch to barbells, but a full body machine workout feels good, burns calories, and does get you in the habit. It's not like he's got some certain time frame before he has to be able to bench press 200 lbs or they're going to tear down the community center and all the local kids will have no place to learn how to breakdance.

Great. But even with this thought process in mind, he chose to design his own poorly thought out routine. It isn't even a full body workout. It's just some crap thrown together haphazardly.

 

[HisshouBuraiKen]

Yeah, I did. I was thinking the strength would build muscle and the cardio would cut the fat, since I've got a decent layer of fat on me. I'm like 5' 9" 165.

You're staying I'll see better results, aesthetically, to hold off on the cardio and just focusing on hitting the gym 3 times a week?

Cardio and Mass Gains

Unfortunately short of really extreme methods, drugs, or being an obese newb who's never picked up a weight before there's no way to burn fat and build muscle simultaneously.

 

[Xater]

Great. But even with this thought process in mind, he chose to design his own poorly thought out routine. It isn't even a full body workout. It's just some crap thrown together haphazardly.

Well HisshouBuraiKen Matthew at least made suggestions on what to replace. You are not helping at all.

 

[Petrie]

Well HisshouBuraiKen Matthew at least made suggestions on what to replace. You are not helping at all.

Sure I did. Replace what you are doing with the beginner workout from the OP. Asking people to reiterate knowledge that is clearly and expertly expressed in the OP of the topic is just silly. Everything you need is there waiting.

I'm not going to try and duct tape together a lousy routine you designed when pros have spent a lifetime designing excellent beginner routines you could choose from.

 

[Cudder]

I don't see any problem with a machine workout for a beginner. Like I said before, you'll still get your ass kicked when you switch to barbells, but a full body machine workout feels good, burns calories, and does get you in the habit. It's not like he's got some certain time frame before he has to be able to bench press 200 lbs or they're going to tear down the community center and all the local kids will have no place to learn how to breakdance.

It's just a matter of maximizing your gains as a beginner and time management. He could do a whole lot more in less time if he used barbells. And I believe full body compounds burn more calories than just using machines.

 

[ThLunarian]

Well I've been doing the OP routine for about a month and a half now, and I finally found the ceiling on my squats. At 255 lbs, I was only able to go 5 - 5 - 3 before my legs wouldn't let me do anymore.

Bench press is up to 150, where I was just barely able to go 5-5-5 yesterday.

I don't think I'm even close to the ceiling on my deadlift yet. At 185 lbs I can still get through my one set of 5 pretty easily.

Working out is pretty exciting!

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Anyone have some good stretches that really hit the lower back, especially the sides? I need to stretch it out just a little more since I felt it tense up too much while squatting today. I still hit everything but that last rep was hell.

 

[Szu]

Anyone have some good stretches that really hit the lower back, especially the sides? I need to stretch it out just a little more since I felt it tense up too much while squatting today. I still hit everything but that last rep was hell.

Try this one, lying spinal twist stretch.

 

[Pete Rock]

Anyone have some good stretches that really hit the lower back, especially the sides? I need to stretch it out just a little more since I felt it tense up too much while squatting today. I still hit everything but that last rep was hell.

Cat & Camel, Earth Touch/Downward Facing Dog, Relaxed (laying down) Extended Tree, Cobra

Try this one, lying spinal twist stretch.

This one is also very good for the low back and hips and you'll even feel it up into your shoulder blades and neck.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Uhg. My body is roached. I hate deadlifts so much. The rest of my day last night and the day after are always terrible.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

It's just a matter of maximizing your gains as a beginner and time management. He could do a whole lot more in less time if he used barbells. And I believe full body compounds burn more calories than just using machines.

That's true, but it's up to him. The most efficient way to gain strength may not be the best choice. He may want something less intense and more relaxed.

It's not like machine exercises are the devil.

It's not like if he works at machines for a while he's going to never move on to barbells.

 

[Zoe]

It's just a matter of maximizing your gains as a beginner and time management. He could do a whole lot more in less time if he used barbells. And I believe full body compounds burn more calories than just using machines.

Calorie burning depends on your exertion. Using the barbell isn't necessarily going to make you burn more.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Try this one, lying spinal twist stretch.

Cat & Camel, Earth Touch/Downward Facing Dog, Relaxed (laying down) Extended Tree, Cobra

This one is also very good for the low back and hips and you'll even feel it up into your shoulder blades and neck.

Thank you. I'll try these when I stretch later. The back always seems like it takes so much time to heal.

 

[Cudder]

That's true, but it's up to him. The most efficient way to gain strength may not be the best choice. He may want something less intense and more relaxed.

It's not like machine exercises are the devil.

It's not like if he works at machines for a while he's going to never move on to barbells.

Well, can't say I agree with the bolded at all. How is the most efficient way to gain strength not the best way?

It's all about functional strength. Solely using machines will make your muscles grow, sure. But your body won't know how to function as a unit. You're body is going to be imbalanced, and it will get more imbalanced the more you use only machines.

I'll be bold and say that it might be more beneficial starting with free weights as a complete workout newbie than switching to free weights after a year of using only machines.

 

[Cudder]

Calorie burning depends on your exertion. Using the barbell isn't necessarily going to make you burn more.

Depends what exercises we're talking about here. Compounds that use your whole body (squats, OHP, etc) most definitely burn more calories than someone sitting on a stool doing machine curls.

 

[Zoe]

Depends what exercises we're talking about here. Compounds that use your whole body (squats, OHP, etc) most definitely burn more calories than someone sitting on a stool doing machine curls.

If doing those curls gets your heart pounding, then yes, it can burn just as much.

 

[Szu]

That's true, but it's up to him. The most efficient way to gain strength may not be the best choice. He may want something less intense and more relaxed.

It's not like machine exercises are the devil.

It's not like if he works at machines for a while he's going to never move on to barbells.

I agree.

For most of my first year at my first gym, I did almost my entire workout with machines.

Do I have regrets for not switching to a weights-oriented workout earlier than I did? No, I don't. It's what I did because it got me ass in the gym. Eventually, I learned a better way. Hell, I'm still learning to this day.

Hopefully, Xater will find his way.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

If doing those curls gets your heart pounding, then yes, it can burn just as much.

An isolation movement is not going to have the same cardiovascular impact let alone energy demand of barbell compounds.

When you get more muscles involved you inherently demand more from the body. It's by definition a more efficient way to get results, gain muscle, and burn calories than isolation movements.


That said, if this guy doesn't want to get strong and just wants to do machines and that's the only thing he wants to do n the gym, let him.

The day he decides he wants to get stronger and/or get cooter body we will still be here.

 

[Cooter]

If doing those curls gets your heart pounding, then yes, it can burn just as much.

Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with that Zoe. I may be wrong but I see no way doing machine curls can burn as much calories as DLs or squats.

 

[Petrie]

Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with that Zoe. I may be wrong but I see no way doing machine curls can burn as much calories as DLs or squats.

You'd have to do them for way longer. That's the only way.

 

[Cooter]

You'd have to do them for way longer. That's the only way.

Exactly. Maybe if you did a set of 100 curls it might equal one 15 rep set of squats but all things being equal the two are not comparable. Besides, doing that many machine curls is pointless.

 

[SeanR1221]

An isolation movement is not going to have the same cardiovascular impact let alone energy demand of barbell compounds.

When you get more muscles involved you inherently demand more from the body. It's by definition a more efficient way to get results, gain muscle, and burn calories than isolation movements.


That said, if this guy doesn't want to get strong and just wants to do machines and that's the only thing he wants to do n the gym, let him.

The day he decides he wants to get stronger and/or get cooter body we will still be here.

This. People are gonna do what they wanna do.

 

[Petrie]

Exactly. Maybe if you did a set of 100 curls it might equal one 15 rep set of squats but all things being equal the two are not comparable. Besides, doing that many machine curls is pointless.

This. Not trying to gang up on you Zoe but you're completely wrong here.

This. People are gonna do what they wanna do.

YOLO

 

[Arrowgigantic]

How is the most efficient way to gain strength not the best way?

Like I said, if he wants to take it easy and get used to regular exercise gradually and get to know his body and build confidence.

Starting out with machines is OK. It feels really good, it's relaxing, it's exercise. As long as you're aware that barbells are your destiny, it's better than not exercising. Also when you do get those first day squat DOMS, you're that much more impressed with squats.

 

[Cooter]

This. People are gonna do what they wanna do.

No!!!! They must do what me, Brolic, Petrie, Sean, Szu, and company tell them to do!

 

[Petrie]

Like I said, if he wants to take it easy and get used to regular exercise gradually and get to know his body and build confidence.

Starting out with machines is OK. It feels really good, it's relaxing, it's exercise. As long as you're aware that barbells are your destiny, it's better than not exercising. Also when you do get those first day squat DOMS, you're that much more impressed with squats.

In the same way that losing weight on a diet of McDonald's and Twinkies is possible, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

No!!!! They must do what me, Brolic, Petrie, Sean, Szu, and company tell them to do!

I'll get banned again for being too real soon enough. No worries.

 

[huxley00]

I heard an interesting tip the other day that helped my deadlift numbers some. I've always struggled with a comfortable foot stance for some reason. Then someone told me to just pretend I was going to jump and pay attention to my foot placement, that is where my feet should be when setting up for deadlift.

That advice really helped me get a better sense of where my explosive power was coming from and helped up my gains a bit. Maybe useful to some other people? Worth a shot.

 

[Zoe]

This. Not trying to gang up on you Zoe but you're completely wrong here.

Calorie burning primarily has to do with how hard your heart is pumping. Using a bar doesn't necessarily mean your heart rate is going to be higher, especially when you're untrained and doing low weights.

 

[Szu]

No!!!! They must do what me, Brolic, Petrie, Sean, Szu, and company tell them to do!

Cooter, you do realize that if everyone tried to do EVERYTHING that we tell them to do, then they'll either be swole as fuck or dead (but still swole).

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Calorie burning primarily has to do with how hard your heart is pumping. Using a bar doesn't necessarily mean your heart rate is going to be higher, especially when you're untrained and doing low weights.

Calorie burning primarily has to do with energy demand. Getting more muscles involved will inherently cause a higher demand. The harder your body works the harder the heart pumps to deliver nutrients.

By it's very nature compound movements (barbell or not) are going to be more efficient and effective than using an isolation machine such at a curl machine for calorie burning.


Heart pumping isn't the mechanic for calorie burning, it's an indicator of it as the heart is essentially th delivery system for nutrients going to the body tissues.


Also if you're untrained and using low weights the result will still be the same if not better than for those trained/adapted.

Weight in the bar is relative and I'd argue that the untrained actually will get more benefit of calorie burning from barbell complexes than adept athletes since their body hasn't adapted to any of th movements yet.

 

[Cooter]

Cooter, you do realize that if everyone tried to do EVERYTHING that we tell them to do, then they'll either be swole as fuck or dead (but still swole).

I see no problem with that. Give me compounds or give me death!

 

[SeanR1221]

Cooter, you do realize that if everyone tried to do EVERYTHING that we tell them to do, then they'll either be swole as fuck or dead (but still swole).

They'd turn into FitGafMan, the unofficial masot of FitGaf

 

[agrajag]

Exactly. Maybe if you did a set of 100 curls it might equal one 15 rep set of squats but all things being equal the two are not comparable. Besides, doing that many machine curls is pointless.

There's a cardio machine in my gym that's amazing and is a total guilty pleasure of mine. It's called a rope climb trainer. It basically simulates climbing a rope, but you're only using your arms. On the highest setting, I can only go a minute and a half (or 188 ft) before my arms feel swollen with blood and I'm out of breath and drenched with sweat. Similar to this:

way better than doing 100 curls, lol

 

[RumblingRosco]

Well, can't say I agree with the bolded at all. How is the most efficient way to gain strength not the best way?

Well, if we all truly believed in that statement we'd be doing 'roids/PEDs/gear/riding bikes/whatever the fuck you kids call it these days.

 

[Pete Rock]

I bought my parents YMCA memberships two years ago and they started with the free classes on machines and built a schedule around that when they became comfortable with both the process of scheduling attendance and the idea of being a functioning member. It took them 3 months to even go once, so I got them a second year as well, but they did make it a routine. They say it was the best gift and I am just eternally grateful for seeing them in better health and happiness each day, so I would agree.

A lot of those internal issues have already been mentioned, along with the fact that the barbell movements can be so much more intimidating and obviously require extra training compounded on top of these other lifestyle changes. We tend to take all those issues for granted because they aren't relevant to our point of view anymore but that doesn't mean they aren't valid or real.

Obviously from our perspectives we will push for BB training over anything else, but I would say it's better for someone to have a foundation with machines and attendance for a while than to avoid it entirely. I am working on scheduling a time when I can coach my folks on an SS program, probably without power cleans, and only because they have recently asked me about it after trying the "core bar"(?) classes that are offered there. So I am going to be doubly proud of them when we get that going, then they can also know the feeling of waiting for someone to finish their curls in the squat rack.

I do agree it is hard to provide valid input on a routine built around machines because that's clearly not what this discussion tends to be about naturally or as outlined in the op. But hey baby steps and all that!

 

[Arrowgigantic]

In the same way that losing weight on a diet of McDonald's and Twinkies is possible, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Oh come on. The pec deck is not a damn Big Mac. Just because barbells are better than everything doesn't mean that everything else is actually bad for you, end of story.

 

[SeanR1221]

Black coffee and oatmeal. And squatting. Better bring a clean pair of undies.

 

[TheExodu5]

Yeah...I'm not going to be doing power cleans. My gym isn't well suited to them at all.

I might check out Practical Programming in that case.

 

[agrajag]

Black coffee and oatmeal. And squatting. Better bring a clean pair of undies.

I just had Fage with vanilla protein and chocolate syrup. So good.

 

[Petrie]

Oh come on. The pec deck is not a damn Big Mac. Just because barbells are better than everything doesn't mean that everything else is actually bad for you, end of story.

I'd argue machines are inherently bad for a beginner. You essentially have to start over from zero when you switch to a real barbell program. They promote imbalances and don't strengthen the CNS properly. They are harmful.

 

[Cudder]

Well, if we all truly believed in that statement we'd be doing 'roids/PEDs/gear/riding bikes/whatever the fuck you kids call it these days.

Fastest =/= most efficient. But if someone wants to waste hundreds of dollars and potentially harm their body in the future, let them.

 

[The Chef]

Oh god no...I've become a half repper 😥

Realized it today on squats. Was feeling so excited last week for doing 315 for 3 reps...but then had this painful realization that I didn't go even close to parallel. I just pray that I was going 45 degrees at least.

Today I decided to drop weight and go completely parallel. Had my friend watching to call me out to make sure. My god, 90 degrees is DEEP. In order for me to pull off true Christian reps I had to drop down to 135. I'm so ashamed

I've been livig a lie.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Oh god no...I've become a half repper 😥

Realized it today on squats. Was feeling so excited last week for doing 315 for 3 reps...but then had this painful realization that I didn't go even close to parallel. I just pray that I was going 45 degrees at least.

Today I decided to drop weight and go completely parallel. Had my friend watching to call me out to make sure. My god, 90 degrees is DEEP. In order for me to pull off true Christian reps I had to drop down to 135. I'm so ashamed

I've been livig a lie.

The first step is admitting you have a problem.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Oh god no...I've become a half repper 😥

Realized it today on squats. Was feeling so excited last week for doing 315 for 3 reps...but then had this painful realization that I didn't go even close to parallel. I just pray that I was going 45 degrees at least.

Today I decided to drop weight and go completely parallel. Had my friend watching to call me out to make sure. My god, 90 degrees is DEEP. In order for me to pull off true Christian reps I had to drop down to 135. I'm so ashamed

I've been livig a lie.

Record, record, record.

 

[ACE 1991]

I think someone may have posted this before, but what would you guys recommend as a routine to tack on to the end of my upper body days or in between my first compound movement (flat or incline bench depending on the day) for someone who has really never trained abs before? I'm assuming doing a routine with some sort of progression twice a week should be sufficient to ensure that I'm hitting these muscles hard enough?

 

[Imm0rt4l]

The first step is admitting you have a problem.

.

 

[Spiritreaver]

I don't squat, bench, or deadlift anywhere near as much as most of the regulars in this thread. Yes I utilize free weights and compounds lifts, they are very important. As is strength training, but quite frankly you cannot expect to put everyone into this idea that heavy BB lifting is a requirement for them to get the results they want.

Quite frankly. I see little point in excessive strength training if your primary goal is aesthetics or you are not creating a body to be functional at... something. Whether it be worl, sports, or hobby. Same thing goes the other way around. Don't see the point of packing on size if you have other goals in mind or just want to be fit.

I don't know. This thread has been irking me for a while these past few months.

Straight up.

I think I have made amazing progress. I think I look phenomenal. Just knowing that I could go on stage is enough for me to know I've done a great job.

I have never squatted 405 for reps.
I have never deadlifted anything over 405 for reps.
I have never benched over 315 for reps.
I have never OHP'd over 145 for reps.
I have never done weighted dips/pullups.
I have never done a muscle-up.

I have next to zero interest in seeing any of these things increase. They would be nice yes, but I really don't care jack shit a bout strength other than what is necessary for me to make the goals I want to make. Yet, I look good and I feel good.

All that rambling aside.

If someone is only comfortable doing machines, then so be it. That's what they do. Do not belittle anyone for it. Give them the advice that free weight training is more efficient in the long run and suggest to them that working in free weight lifts is what they should do. If they can't get over that hump, then just let them be. Any progress is better than no progress and the last thing I would want to see is someone be completely discouraged because they feel they aren't doing the right thing.

TLDR You guys give great advice, but really the attitude that comes with it has always been an issue of mine. I've posted about it endlessly and it frustrates me that only I and a couple of other guys bother to humanize things.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

If money is an issue and you're going to invest the time and money spent on gym membership, nutrition and diet then you might as well listen to the advice of professionals and do what's proven to work.

If money or timescales isnt a concern then do whatever suits you.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Oh god no...I've become a half repper 😥

Realized it today on squats. Was feeling so excited last week for doing 315 for 3 reps...but then had this painful realization that I didn't go even close to parallel. I just pray that I was going 45 degrees at least.

Today I decided to drop weight and go completely parallel. Had my friend watching to call me out to make sure. My god, 90 degrees is DEEP. In order for me to pull off true Christian reps I had to drop down to 135. I'm so ashamed

I've been livig a lie.

Haha I feel you baby. Squats are the easiest exercise to half rep because it's so hard to get a good vantage point. Plus when you squat below that 5" above parallel line you feel like your doing a ATG rep.