Its going to take me 2-3 days to get sleep schedule fixed. By then i'll slowly be rolling back into IF and cutting hard. Should be at ~2400 or so today when all said and done (will be awake 24 hours + hitting gym for deload week). By end of this week, i should hopefully be back in the 22x range (sitting at 232.4 this morning, which all things considered of what i've been eating this past week has been amazing). Then focus on cutting till my next 1s week, eat a bit more for that week, then another 72 hour fast.
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Fitness |OT8| Dad Bods, Bulge Swelfies, and Wait...Do you even lift bro?
- Thread starter Chocobro
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Bish,
do you happen to have a source for how long you should take between prolonged fasts? I remember reading some article a while back that had guidelines but can't seem to find it.
Basically it was something this:
24h - every other day
48h - every n weeks
72h - every nn weeks
72h+ - every n months
Etc..
Just wondering how often you can do 48h fasts for example..
Edit:
Nvm, found it. Not sure if there's any specific scientific reason for these rules, just some recommendations from some random PT.
"My rough template looks like this:
5-7 times per week fasts should be between 12 and 16 hours long.
3-4 times per week fasts should be between 16 and 20 hours long.
1-2 times per week Fasts should be between 20 and 24 hours long.
1-2 times a month Fasts should be between 24 and 72 hours long.
Any longer than this and youre looking at something you should do every other month at the most, and if its much longer than 72 hours you should consider doing so under medical supervision."
do you happen to have a source for how long you should take between prolonged fasts? I remember reading some article a while back that had guidelines but can't seem to find it.
Basically it was something this:
24h - every other day
48h - every n weeks
72h - every nn weeks
72h+ - every n months
Etc..
Just wondering how often you can do 48h fasts for example..
Edit:
Nvm, found it. Not sure if there's any specific scientific reason for these rules, just some recommendations from some random PT.
"My rough template looks like this:
5-7 times per week fasts should be between 12 and 16 hours long.
3-4 times per week fasts should be between 16 and 20 hours long.
1-2 times per week Fasts should be between 20 and 24 hours long.
1-2 times a month Fasts should be between 24 and 72 hours long.
Any longer than this and youre looking at something you should do every other month at the most, and if its much longer than 72 hours you should consider doing so under medical supervision."
ExplodingKetchup
Member
You can do both. Lifting helps with losing weight, which you can supplement with some cardio too. Or your main focus can be cardio, which you supplement with weights. Either way, you shouldn't stick to just one or the other.
On another note, tried making sure my core was tight today during squats, but it didn't seem to help. I might try to see a powerlifting trainer and get some pointers on my form and how to fix whatever's happening. If I can't, I might take squats out of my routine for a bit and revisit them when I'm back at school
I honestly am still researching myself.
Try here:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/
He is some well known doctor who is big into fasting.
Psychotext
Member
Still ill. This shit always seems to happy when I get down to low body fat, even when I'm obsessive about hitting up the nutrients.
Almost did this to my boxers on my volume
Day last week. I've split stiffer PJ pants before and I knew the boxers weren't a good idea, but my gym pants are too heavy for the summer time for me and my gym shorts were dirty so I didn't have a lot of options.
Guess I could have done it in tighty whiteys hahah.
Psychotext
Member
Have decided to try out the greasing the groove thing for pullups and maybe pushups. I've read that it's best to just do one, but I'm not exactly using crazy high reps for either (and the muscles don't really interfere) so I think I'll be ok short term.
Going to set a timer for every hour and see how I get on.
Going to set a timer for every hour and see how I get on.
Choco, my understanding is that what Ehab displays in the video is more of a squat clean. It's not hitting parallel but he's moving his body under the bar a considerable amount. I've always understood the power clean to be a clean in which the lifter produces enough power that the bar raises to nearly the rack position without the need to pull your self to squat under the bar at the peak of the bar path. Or is it still considered a power clean as long as you don't have to hit parallel squat position?
DivineRage002
Member
Hey just want to share my split with you guys, see what you think. I do weightlifting three times a week, and cardio three times a week, I do a two-week rotation on the exercises, and change my reps every week for six weeks before starting over.
Basically goes like this:
Sunday: Chest/triceps/abs
Tuesday: Legs/calves
Thursday: Back/biceps/forearms
Every other day except friday: Cardio
On weeks 1, 3 and 5, I do compound exercises, such as benchpress, squats and deadlifts.
On weeks 2, 4 and 6, I do isolation work, bicep curls, chest flys, leg extensions etc.
My reps go as such:
Week 1, 11 reps per set (compound)
Week 2, 15 reps per set (isolation)
Week 3, 8 reps per set (compound)
Week 4, 20 reps per set (isolation)
Week 5, 5-3-1 (compound)
Week 6, 30 reps per set (isolation)
I found that always doing heavy sets was starting to hurt my joints, so having a lighter week with high reps inbetween the heavy ones helps with recovery.
Basically goes like this:
Sunday: Chest/triceps/abs
Tuesday: Legs/calves
Thursday: Back/biceps/forearms
Every other day except friday: Cardio
On weeks 1, 3 and 5, I do compound exercises, such as benchpress, squats and deadlifts.
On weeks 2, 4 and 6, I do isolation work, bicep curls, chest flys, leg extensions etc.
My reps go as such:
Week 1, 11 reps per set (compound)
Week 2, 15 reps per set (isolation)
Week 3, 8 reps per set (compound)
Week 4, 20 reps per set (isolation)
Week 5, 5-3-1 (compound)
Week 6, 30 reps per set (isolation)
I found that always doing heavy sets was starting to hurt my joints, so having a lighter week with high reps inbetween the heavy ones helps with recovery.
Dead Prince
Banned
i am pretty satisfied on 315lbs on squats. my PR for that.
first attempt was a good.
actually attempted it a second time which is the one i recorded. i told my brother not to touch the bar if i don't go back up. i'm doing inside the rack with the safety on the side. but anyways. i watched back the video and he say he didn't touch it but i felt the bar lift up.. anyways
the first attempt was good. he wasn't touching it then. but didn't have it recorded lol.
first attempt was a good.
actually attempted it a second time which is the one i recorded. i told my brother not to touch the bar if i don't go back up. i'm doing inside the rack with the safety on the side. but anyways. i watched back the video and he say he didn't touch it but i felt the bar lift up.. anyways
the first attempt was good. he wasn't touching it then. but didn't have it recorded lol.
Are you bracing your core properly? Omar made a pretty good video on it back in 2013.You can do both. Lifting helps with losing weight, which you can supplement with some cardio too. Or your main focus can be cardio, which you supplement with weights. Either way, you shouldn't stick to just one or the other.
On another note, tried making sure my core was tight today during squats, but it didn't seem to help. I might try to see a powerlifting trainer and get some pointers on my form and how to fix whatever's happening. If I can't, I might take squats out of my routine for a bit and revisit them when I'm back at school
To my knowledge, a squat clean is the (full) clean. In the world of weightlifting, power clean is caught when you're above parallel. Everywhere when this was posted, Luis Mosqeura power cleaned 172kg at competition. Above parallel.
EDIT: http://www.catalystathletics.com/exercise/67/Power-Clean/
Took some time to read some posts and this is a great resource. I've just only read his 10 part post on fasting but it was super interesting and gave some food for thought. And I've read a ton on intermittent fasting. Recommended reading for anyone interested.
Starts from here:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-a-history-part-i/
Especially the point he was making on using just intermittent fasting instead of traditional calorie reduction for cutting was interesting. In short, traditional reduction of calories causes increased hunger and lowered metabolism but IF (for example Eat Stop Eat) causes decreased hunger and increased metabolism, which is good. So perhaps it's better to eat "normally" 4-6 days a week and completely fast for 1-3 days a week than cut calories every day?
Psychotext
Member
I've love to see the UK NHS have the balls to try something like that for obesity, but I'd put money on the media calling it "starving people".
Fair enough. I think that's probably the key here. After reading a little more on it this morning there seems to be a fairly fuzzy dividing line in thought on this - olympic weightlifters qualify it as above parallel and people who use it as a training lift for developing power in other sports essentially look for less knee bend (ie lower weights used so the drive carries the bar further removing the technique of getting under a low bar).
Yes, its something i'm going to crunch the numbers for. Basically looking to do something like eat above maintenance m-th (gym days), then fast for a day or 2, have a small refeed of about 500 calories more then maintenance, but spread it out throughout the day to reset the fasting timing, then rinse, repeat. Going to do more research and come up with a plan of sorts. I know i can do it, fasting comes natural for me.
SilentSoldier
Member
No, it was after i got my weight measured. They used some sort of handheld device that had similar sensors to those you use for heartrate. They put my age, height, weight, in the device and had me hold it out with both hands for a few seconds to get the reading. Don't know how accurate it is, but at least I have something to go by now.
Escape Goat
Member
I just had 4 mini cupcakes from wal mart for my birthday. Theyre 40% butter icing but thats okay.
Psychotext
Member
Bros... why do I keep checking out other bros when I'm out? It's like:
"Lifts, skipped leg day, lolsmall, freakbeast, aesthetic, doesn't lift, couldn't lift..."
/stilldigschicks
"Lifts, skipped leg day, lolsmall, freakbeast, aesthetic, doesn't lift, couldn't lift..."
/stilldigschicks
FallingEdge
Member
Down to 233 lbs. Leanest I have been in 1.5 years. Still a mindfuck on how I feel. Shirts aren't as tight. Don't feel big, etc.
Dem abs tho.
Happy birthday~
Dem abs tho.
Happy birthday~
Hate to be the [citation needed] asshat, but all the fasting information I have found is pretty much "I am popular on the internet, listen to my advice" blogs. Internet guru advice sets off a few alarms for me. And it looks like the recent incarnation came to body building via Leangains, and Martin is a premier internet fitness guru example. He doesn't even outline a program unless you hire him. The rest is put together by reading in between the lines on his blog posts.
I have been looking at studies for this for probably over a month now and there is not even a marginal advantage health wise, much less what is promised.
The most empirical information is pretty much pre and post bloodwork on religious groups who undergo fasting. Oh yeah and tons of animal studies.
From what I could find on human studies...
Many of the GH conclusions are drawn from geriatric(>60) studies. Old people have weird responses to this kind of stuff, they are the ones that actually benefit from 1g/lb+ daily protein intake. Not really a candidate for comparing to anything else. As a group they are a island.
Insulin biomarkers just show that your body is ready to open the floodgates the next time you eat something. Most of the insulin biomarker focused studies are done on obese or morbidly obese patients. Some studies show no glucose tolerance effect in healthy(by BMI %) men.
Conclusions from a few long term studies concerning weight loss show no body composition advantage for intermittent or continuous energy restriction for obese people trying to lose weight, but 1 meal/day participants have higher dropout rates than other clinically controlled food studies, by several multiples. Pretty bad for sticking to your diet.
None of the performance studies(nearly all cyclists) conclude with positive outcomes. At best they confirm that the anabolic window is still a myth(This was an actual Ramadan bb study). Also they confirm your body will go to fat when you are out of glycogen, at least by looking at fatty acid transport protein count. But its not necessarily better because performance studies show fasted state athletes hit failure first. So you actually don't get to burn more energy because you are exercising relatively less.
There is one good study out of Israel that shows you lose weight if you eat the same food all at once per day vs spread out, all other things held equal. They attribute this to overloading the effective processing rate of the digestive tract. This is backed up by a US study that had a small sample group(mostly due to the study nature but also due to high dropout rate), but was well controlled.
A few studies show higher SIRT 1 expression, which is the current popsci longevity gene. However this wasnt reported with weight change and expression is highly linked to caloric reduction, which would explain it independently of meal timing/frequency.
The fasting goose is not laying the golden egg.
I have been looking at studies for this for probably over a month now and there is not even a marginal advantage health wise, much less what is promised.
The most empirical information is pretty much pre and post bloodwork on religious groups who undergo fasting. Oh yeah and tons of animal studies.
From what I could find on human studies...
Many of the GH conclusions are drawn from geriatric(>60) studies. Old people have weird responses to this kind of stuff, they are the ones that actually benefit from 1g/lb+ daily protein intake. Not really a candidate for comparing to anything else. As a group they are a island.
Insulin biomarkers just show that your body is ready to open the floodgates the next time you eat something. Most of the insulin biomarker focused studies are done on obese or morbidly obese patients. Some studies show no glucose tolerance effect in healthy(by BMI %) men.
Conclusions from a few long term studies concerning weight loss show no body composition advantage for intermittent or continuous energy restriction for obese people trying to lose weight, but 1 meal/day participants have higher dropout rates than other clinically controlled food studies, by several multiples. Pretty bad for sticking to your diet.
None of the performance studies(nearly all cyclists) conclude with positive outcomes. At best they confirm that the anabolic window is still a myth(This was an actual Ramadan bb study). Also they confirm your body will go to fat when you are out of glycogen, at least by looking at fatty acid transport protein count. But its not necessarily better because performance studies show fasted state athletes hit failure first. So you actually don't get to burn more energy because you are exercising relatively less.
There is one good study out of Israel that shows you lose weight if you eat the same food all at once per day vs spread out, all other things held equal. They attribute this to overloading the effective processing rate of the digestive tract. This is backed up by a US study that had a small sample group(mostly due to the study nature but also due to high dropout rate), but was well controlled.
A few studies show higher SIRT 1 expression, which is the current popsci longevity gene. However this wasnt reported with weight change and expression is highly linked to caloric reduction, which would explain it independently of meal timing/frequency.
The fasting goose is not laying the golden egg.
Psychotext
Member
You talking about this one? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17413096
I've actually put this to the test myself, and at high power outputs you hit the wall hard when fasted. When your performance goes, it really, really goes. It's the reason that I'll only do relatively easy rides fasted.
Not very accurate. It's the same as the scales but it sends currents through your hands/arms instead of feet/legs. We have the same exact device at my gym. I occasionally use it for shits and giggles - it always spits out my body fat % as between 8-9% (I've got fairly lean and vascular arms) while I'm definitely closer to 15-16%.
Psychotext
Member
BIA is a complete waste of time. You can't even rely on it for trending as it's so inaccurate.
Well okay then.
entremet
Member
Congrats.
Yep.
The body composition changes were measured with a BIA scale soo Im skeptical of that. And so are they!
The following is also a weakness considering how small the measured differences were in the two groups.
Like i said it was well controlled for intake macros but the sample group was small.
Not trying to rain on the parade. Ill also say anecdotally I did fast a few times when I was doing my big weight loss stuff about a year ago and I did seem to get over plateaus when doing it for a day(not making up for the calories afterwards though). However that could be misattribution.
Psychotext
Member
Yeah, just silly using a method widely understood to be hopelessly inaccurate.
Electrical impedance is BIA... so I think you might be a bit confused there.
Unless you combine multiple methods, there really isn't a gold standard as such. Hydrostatic Weighing and DEXA are considered the most accurate, but even they have problems.
Studies on fasting for people like us are not really available readily. And performance at the gym is meaningless, most people fast to burn fat stores. If i were training for strength or performance, i wouldn't be on a cut in the first place, let alone fasting. And honestly, as anecdotal as it is, results speak for themselves. I'm a firm believer in it.
I'm sure you could pull up several studies about how low carb diets are the most unhealthy thing possible. Doesn't make it true. You can skew any study to read how you like.
I'm sure you could pull up several studies about how low carb diets are the most unhealthy thing possible. Doesn't make it true. You can skew any study to read how you like.
Yep, I fast to burn fat. If there's some other benefits then great. Not expecting it to increase my gym performance.
entremet
Member
Ultra low carb diets do have issue with muscus production, which is actually important for your stomach lining and such.
But you don't go that low if you if eat protein, as protein is converted to carbs.
I agree that success and successful habit forming trumps all the other stuff.
You can spin a study to anyone who doesn't take the time to understand it. Most of them poorly control for one experimental outcome at best.
Fitness and nutrition is by far the most frustrating topic to research for scientific evidence.
FallingEdge
Member
maybe another 10 lbs? feels like a never ending story
entremet
Member
It's because it's nearly impossible to study using the scientific method.
It works in more isolated systems and environments like Physics.
But for the human body, it's just not practical. You can't keep people in a metabolic ward forever, hooked up to calorimeters 24/7.
But this is why I think nerd types--and I include myself in that picture--need to stop looking for perfect studies. They will never exist.
That's why we need to look at clinical interventions. That's still the scientific method. You're testing a hypothesis on live subjects. It will never be enough for a theory, which is borderline truth in science. But that's fine.
That's why good trainers know more than doctors about practical weight loss. They have practical knowledge from years of trial and error.
Science is a way of thinking, not just double blind controlled studies, which have tons of restrictions, rely on self reported data that can be faulty and tend to isolate other important factors--such as sleep, stress, etc.
It surely ends and you are approaching that end soon my friend. Impressive work!
Damn FE you are in beast mode.
The human body is the most complex system in nature and by design experiments have to treat it as a black box in order to isolate causality, which is most troublesome.
The human body is the most complex system in nature and by design experiments have to treat it as a black box in order to isolate causality, which is most troublesome.
entremet
Member
Luckily there is stuff we basically know for a fact, such as the perils of being sedentary.
Psychotext
Member
Man, I know it's not supposed to be tiring, but doing pushups and pullups every hour has properly worn me out today. Not exactly 100% yet though, so I shouldn't really be surprised.
entremet
Member
Are you doing Greasing The Groove?
Psychotext
Member
Yeah. Working to about 70% of my max, rounded down. Going to add a rep every three or four days. Past a certain point I'm going to add weight.
Newest Broscience with Gootecks asking the brofessor a question.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=436f3DCSbI0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=436f3DCSbI0
SilentSoldier
Member
So instead of 17% I'm probably closer to 25%? -_____-
Noticeable difference from your last progress pic Chef. Looking great. Sometimes a couple hundred calories makes all the difference.Had such an intense workout today. Plus the diet is finally showing some great results as I can start to see faint lines defining my abs. 30days so far.
ohhthegore
Member
some great progress pics on this page
FallingEdge
Member
lol @ that shot at reddit
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