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[crazygambit]

Conor is the 2nd biggest star in all of combat sports currently. Only Mayweather is bigger. The PPV buys don't lie or social media presence. There is no other current boxer at his level in terms of promotional size (hence why Floyd wanted to fight him)

I honestly don't think Mayweather is bigger. His last fight did 350k. McGregor could fight the janitor and it would do over a mil.

Only way we get real legit meltdowns is if somehow Conor wins. I think even the people predicting / rooting for him to pull it off see it as a long shot. This isn't even his sport.

If he somehow does it though, yeah we are talking full on internet breaking levels of meltdown

Honestly even if McGregor starches Mayweather and KO's him in the first round, we'll see a lot of revisionist history. He was too old, he never fought anyone in his prime before, his record wasn't that good, he was never the best, he was just a bum.

Basically the Also treatment. And all his legacy would be the KO clip. McGregor has already predicted this will happen and I have to say I agree.

 

[lightskintwin]

I honestly don't think Mayweather is bigger. His last fight did 350k. McGregor could fight the janitor and it would do over a mil.

Mayweather vs Berto did over 400k, however it was Mayweather's last fight under his 6 fight contract where he made a guaranteed 32 Million per fight not including the percentages he made off of PPV, and after Mayweather made himself and CBS/Showtime all that money from Canelo vs Mayweather and Pacquiao vs Mayweather they let him take that fight knowing the PPV numbers were going to be low.

CBS even considered airing that fight live on their network for free.

Please put things in context.

 

[Syder]

1 million PPV buys is still a difficult thing to break, and I think you're taking that for granted. Everybody knew Canelo vs Chavez JR would do well, hardly anybody expected it to do 1 million PPV buys including myself.

PPV buys are still built on stars. Now Golovkin vs Canelo SHOULD do a million given everything it has going for it, but it's not guaranteed and the question marks are on Golovkin's side as a PPV draw.

GGG vs Lemiux did 150K PPV buys, GGG Vs Jacobs did 170K PPV buys

Unfortnately GGG isn't Puerto Rican, White American, Black American, Mexican, or even English, Irish, etc.... so he doesn't have that automatic ethnic install base to help him with his numbers on a casual level since he's from Kazakhstan.

I agree with you and understand why GGG is not a big draw and may not even be a bigger draw if he beats Canelo. Another problem for Golovkin is he's too nice, too humble, he doesn't deliver intriguing sound bites

Spoiler

"this is boxing"

; but I think this matchup on it's own sells itself. The winner can make a legit claim to being the best pound for pound fighter on the planet. "Canelo's ducking GGG" became a pretty big meme in the boxing community.

I think this fight clears 1 million easily, and pushes 2, but I can't make a certain prediction until I start seeing promotion.

 

[Tekniqs]

I agree with you and understand why GGG is not a big draw and may not even be a bigger draw if he beats Canelo. Another problem for Golovkin is he's too nice, too humble, he doesn't deliver intriguing sound bites

Spoiler

"this is boxing"

; but I think this matchup on it's own sells itself. The winner can make a legit claim to being the best pound for pound fighter on the planet. "Canelo's ducking GGG" became a pretty big meme in the boxing community.

I think this fight clears 1 million easily, and pushes 2, but I can't make a certain prediction until I start seeing promotion.

GGG should be big in the US. He loves box and likes to put on good show for the fans.

 

[lightskintwin]

I agree with you and understand why GGG is not a big draw and may not even be a bigger draw if he beats Canelo. Another problem for Golovkin is he's too nice, too humble, he doesn't deliver intriguing sound bites

Spoiler

"this is boxing"

; but I think this matchup on it's own sells itself. The winner can make a legit claim to being the best pound for pound fighter on the planet. "Canelo's ducking GGG" became a pretty big meme in the boxing community.

I think this fight clears 1 million easily, and pushes 2, but I can't make a certain prediction until I start seeing promotion.

Golovkin is a very likable guy with a fan friendly style and if exposed on a major platform such as this fight, he could become a superstar.

Unfortunately McGregor vs Mayweather has ate so much hype and time away from their promotion that I sometimes even forget that fight's coming up and I'm a hardcore boxing fan. LOL It's going to need a lot a heat in the next 3 weeks to build hype and awareness to that event.

 

[Shearie]

GGG has hot lines like "He's a good boy", "This is big drama show", and "Max, Max, this is boxing".

 

[Rhoc]

Do you guys think if Conor wins (what i don't believe) we get a similar iconic picture like that one from Ali against Liston. We need a new sports legend like Jordan, Ali, Pele.
And if it's Conor because the stars align so be it.
I know he has maybe only a 5% chance but they got me, they did it, they got me hyped for a gimmick fight.

 

[lightskintwin]

Do you guys think if Conor wins (what i don't believe) we get a similar iconic picture like that one from Ali against Liston. We need a new sports legend like Jordan, Ali, Pele.
And if it's Conor because the stars align so be it.
I know he has maybe only a 5% chance but they got me, they did it, they got me hyped for a gimmick fight.

Mayweather is your sports legend.

 

[PR_rambo]

GGG's resume doesn't help either, he didn't fight anybody who'd been on a PPV either.

Like, Danny Jacobs is arguably his biggest victory. And they had a tremendous fight but neither fighter has that kind of following. Shame he didn't get to fight Cotto for his belt, but Canelo was the better money fight.


EDIT: In the 00.1 percent chance Conor wins, oh he'll blow up. Great white hype is real. People are thirsty AF for that.

 

[lightskintwin]

GGG's resume doesn't help either, he didn't fight anybody who'd been on a PPV either.

Like, Danny Jacobs is arguably his biggest victory. And they had a tremendous fight but neither fighter has that kind of following. Shame he didn't get to fight Cotto for his belt, but Canelo was the better money fight.

Definitely. GGG came to the division when all the names were old and on their way out, and was light in talent.

However GGG did miss his opportunity to fight Ward at Super middleweight, which had he won would've made him instantly #1 P4P fighter in the world. Chances are he would've lost, but still...

 

[PR_rambo]

Definitely. GGG came to the division when all the names were old and on their way out, and was light in talent.

However GGG did miss his opportunity to fight Ward at Super middleweight, which had he won would've made him instantly #1 P4P fighter in the world. Chances are he would've lost, but still...

Yeah people don't bring that up very often but he did have his chance there. Especially with Abel Sanchez bragging about it, but when Andre said fine let's do it, Abel is the one who wouldn't let it happen. Like you said, I'm pretty sure he would have lost, Andre Ward has gone up to light heavyweight and KO'd two champions, but that was the one time somebody with repute was available to fight him, and he missed out.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

If you consider Floyd as retired, Anthony Joshua actually has Conor's record beat and is currently the biggest drawing active combat sports star.

Who da fook is this guy??

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Who da fook is this guy??

Oh dear...

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Who da fook is this guy??

An undefeated heavyweight boxer and 2012 gold medalist. Oh, he also knocked out (well. TKO'd) Vladimir Klitschko. Maybe you've heard of that guy?

 

[lightskintwin]

An undefeated heavyweight boxer and 2012 gold medalist. Oh, he also knocked out (well. TKO'd) Vladimir Klitschko. Maybe you've heard of that guy?

Despite all of that, he isn't that well known yet especially in America.

 

[Jamie OD]

Despite all of that, he isn't that well known yet especially in America.

Yeah when I read people saying boxing is dead they are only talking about the American scene and have no idea how well it's doing in Europe, especially in UK for the big fights doing good PPV numbers on Sky.

 

[Moze]

Despite all of that, he isn't that well known yet especially in America.

That's really downplaying how big Joshua is in the UK. He is the biggest draw in the biggest market in the world.

 

[sooperkool]

I'd much rather see Conor come up 5 pounds and try GGG in his prime than Mayweather on the way to retirement.

 

[CarlisleDavid1979]

I'd much rather see Conor come up 5 pounds and try GGG in his prime than Mayweather on the way to retirement.

GGG is in my opinion the best p4p boxer on the planet. Conor wouldn't last a minute.

 

[RBelong2Us]

Some clown on here really thinks Joshua's next fight will exclipse the ratings of any McGregor fight in the UFC for the past couple years ?

 

[lightskintwin]

Yeah when I read people saying boxing is dead they are only talking about the American scene and have no idea how well it's doing in Europe, especially in UK for the big fights doing good PPV numbers on Sky.

They've been saying boxing is dead for decades. It doesn't mean anything.

That's really downplaying how big Joshua is in the UK. He is the biggest draw in the biggest market in the world.

I'm not downplaying how big Joshua is in the UK, nor did I even comment on that, that's you projecting. None of the heavyweights besides the Klistchkos are well known, now obviously that can change as they start fighting more in high profile fights so people shouldn't act surprised if people don't know who Joshua is just yet.

UK is definitely a great and growing boxing market, but no matter how small Boxing has gotten in America it is still the biggest market in the world. There's no need to make incorrect claims. There's a reason the majority of the best boxers either fight here or come here to fight. Just like there's a reason Mayweather vs McGregor is fighting in America.

 

[PR_rambo]

GGG is in my opinion the best p4p boxer on the planet. Conor wouldn't last a minute.

Andre Ward is number one, won the super six, basically cleaned out super middleweight, also beat Light heavyweight champs Chad Dawson and Sergey Kovalev.

 

[lightskintwin]

Andre Ward is number one, won the super six, basically cleaned out super middleweight, also beat Light heavyweight champs Chad Dawson and Sergey Kovalev.

Thank you.

Golovkin's opponent resume is sad compared to Ward's.

 

[PabloBolivar]

That's really downplaying how big Joshua is in the UK. He is the biggest draw in the biggest market in the world.

But in the US, only like 5 people know of him. That's not much of an exaggeration.

 

[Moze]

They've been saying boxing is dead for decades. It doesn't mean anything.



I'm not downplaying how big Joshua is in the UK, nor did I even comment on that, that's you projecting. None of the heavyweights besides the Klistchkos are well known, now obviously that can change as they start fighting more in high profile fights so people shouldn't act surprised if people don't know who Joshua is just yet.

UK is definitely a great and growing boxing market, but no matter how small Boxing has gotten in America it is still the biggest market in the world. There's no need to make incorrect claims. There's a reason the majority of the best boxers either fight here or come here to fight. Just like there's a reason Mayweather vs McGregor is fighting in America.

I'm not projecting anything. You downplayed how big Joshua is by suggesting he is not very well known. You were wrong. Joshua's PPV buys in the UK make him one of the biggest draws in the world. That's just a fact. His last fight done over 1.5 million PPV buys.

America is not the biggest market in the world for boxing. That's false. It's a dying market in the US outside of a Mayweather and Canelo. Boxers can't do big numbers in the US outside of those two. That's a dying market. What does Wilder need to do to get a big payday? He need to go to the UK. What was GGG's biggest payday? It was Kell Brook. What about Spence? Kell Brook. What's the biggest fight Andre Ward could realistically take? Bellew. Why? because the UK is the biggest market in the world. It's not an incorrect claim at all.

But in the US, only like 5 people know of him. That's not much of an exaggeration.

670k people in the US watched his last fight. He is the biggest heavyweight fighter in the US.

 

[lightskintwin]

I'm not projecting anything. You downplayed how big Joshua is by suggesting he is not very well known. You were wrong. Joshua's PPV buys in the UK make him one of the biggest draws in the world. That's just a fact. His last fight done over 1.5 million PPV buys.

America is not the biggest market in the world for boxing. That's false. It's a dying market in the US outside of a Mayweather and Canelo. Boxers can't do big numbers in the US outside of those two. That's a dying market. What does Wilder need to do to get a big payday? He need to go to the UK. What was GGG's biggest payday? It was Kell Brook. What about Spence? Kell Brook. What's the biggest fight Andre Ward could realistically take? Bellew. Why? because the UK is the biggest market in the world. It's not an incorrect claim at all.

One guy that does well in UK PPV doesn't mean anything. Not to mention the prices are different to American pricing. Also PPV isn't the be all, end all in determining how big a boxing market is.

If the UK is the biggest boxing market in the world, than the majority of top fighters would fight there, right?

All of the biggest fights would be located there, right?

Why isn't that the case?

When you figure out the answer, you'll figure out that America is still the biggest boxing market in the world.

Quit being insecure about UK's place in the boxing world to where you have to make incorrect claims.

 

[Tom_Cody]

GGG is in my opinion the best p4p boxer on the planet. Conor wouldn't last a minute.

Andre Ward is number one, won the super six, basically cleaned out super middleweight, also beat Light heavyweight champs Chad Dawson and Sergey Kovalev.

I'm going to have to go with PR_rambo

 

[Moze]

One guy that does well in UK PPV doesn't mean anything. Not to mention the prices are different to American pricing. Also PPV isn't the be all, end all in determining how big a boxing market is.

If the UK is the biggest boxing market in the world, than the majority of top fighters would fight there, right?

All of the biggest fights would be located there, right?

Why isn't that the case?

When you figure out the answer, you'll figure out that America is still the biggest boxing market in the world.

Quit being insecure about UK's place in the boxing world to where you have to make incorrect claims.

PPV is where the money is and also is what shows the public interest in the sport.


It's not just one guy. It's multiple fighters including, Joshua, Haye, Bellew, Eubank, Kell, Fury. All PPV in the UK. Even Dillian Whyte is big enough to bring in by far Wilder's biggest payday to date. Why? Again, because the UK is the biggest market in the world. Your denial is not changing this. Who are all these big American fighters who can make PPV without the UK? Please tell me. The only draw the US has right now is Canelo. Floyd is done. Ward can't sell PPV. Neither can GGG. Where are all these huge fights you are talking about?

Most of the biggest fights in the world take place in the UK. That's just the way it is now. And that's a country that is 5 times smaller than the US.

 

[Dekmental]

GGG is in my opinion the best p4p boxer on the planet. Conor wouldn't last a minute.

Ggg isnt the p4p best smh. Literally has no claim to it.

 

[PabloBolivar]

I'm not projecting anything. You downplayed how big Joshua is by suggesting he is not very well known. You were wrong. Joshua's PPV buys in the UK make him one of the biggest draws in the world. That's just a fact. His last fight done over 1.5 million PPV buys.

America is not the biggest market in the world for boxing. That's false. It's a dying market in the US outside of a Mayweather and Canelo. Boxers can't do big numbers in the US outside of those two. That's a dying market. What does Wilder need to do to get a big payday? He need to go to the UK. What was GGG's biggest payday? It was Kell Brook. What about Spence? Kell Brook. What's the biggest fight Andre Ward could realistically take? Bellew. Why? because the UK is the biggest market in the world. It's not an incorrect claim at all.




670k people in the US watched his last fight. He is the biggest heavyweight fighter in the US.

670 k is really nothing

 

[lightskintwin]

PPV is where the money is and also is what shows the public interest in the sport.


It's not just one guy. It's multiple fighters including, Joshua, Haye, Bellew, Eubank, Kell, Fury. All PPV in the UK. Even Dillian Whyte is big enough to bring in by far Wilder's biggest payday to date. Why? Again, because the UK is the biggest market in the world. Your denial is not changing this. Who are all these big American fighters who can make PPV without the UK? Please tell me. The only draw the US has right now is Canelo. Floyd is done. Ward can't sell PPV. Neither can GGG. Where are all these huge fights you are talking about?

Most of the biggest fights in the world take place in the UK. That's just the way it is now. And that's a country that is 5 times smaller than the US.

The vast majority of fighters DO NOT FIGHT ON PPV. PPV is not indicative of a boxing market at large but of how popular an individual fighter or match is.

It's weird how your hinging your whole argument on something relatively small as PPV is in the grand scheme of Boxing

THE MARKET INCLUDES EVERYBODY UNDER IT.

The UK could not economically support the amount of boxers America can because the MARKETS ARE DIFFERENT and America's is BIGGER.

Check the Top P4P fighters. If I just used ESPN, the top 10 all fight in America regardless of what country they came from because America is the biggest market.

You are not making any sense.

 

[Deaf Spacker]

Just done Mayweather to win in rounds 1-4 at 4/1.

 

[Ban Puncher]

Floyd wins, both men get paid and life goes on.

Conor wins and professional boxing is dead because their undefeated #1 guy just got rocked at his own game by a mixed martial artist.

The fix is in because they aren't going to let boxing die and lose their future fixed fight money.

 

[Moze]

The vast majority of fighters DO NOT FIGHT ON PPV. PPV is not indicative of a boxing market at large but of how popular an individual fighter or match is.

It's weird how your hinging your whole argument on something relatively small as PPV is in the grand scheme of Boxing

THE MARKET INCLUDES EVERYBODY UNDER IT.

The UK could not economically support the amount of boxers America can because the MARKETS ARE DIFFERENT and America's is BIGGER.

Check the Top P4P fighters. If I just used ESPN, the top 10 all fight in America regardless of what country they came from because America is the biggest market.

You are not making any sense.

I'm not sure what your argument is here? I'm talking about numbers and what is bringing in money. The biggest market is the market bringing in the most money, viewers/PPV and attendance.

P4P lists are laughable and heavily biased towards American fighters. If you do want to go by P4P lists, why isn't the P4P #1 doing good numbers in the US? Why is Ward struggling to sell tickets and PPV buys? If it's the biggest market, why is he struggling?

 

[Loris146]

Odd, I was under the impression that Oscar and PAC were big on PPV, not so much.
Good god, Tyson reigned on PPV for like 2 generations, dude was a beast, no wonder boxing stalled when he left, dude was Boxing.
Floyd is on another level, tho Tyson hold more spots on PPV but Floyd's buys are out of this freaking world.

Yeah Tyson was famous even here in Italy. One of the best ever in his prime. Amazing defense , speed , footwork and power.

 

[lightskintwin]

I'm not sure what your argument is here? I'm talking about numbers and what is bringing in money. The biggest market is the market bringing in the most money, viewers/PPV and attendance.

P4P lists are laughable and heavily biased towards American fighters. If you do want to go by P4P lists, why isn't the P4P #1 doing good numbers in the US? Why is Ward struggling to sell tickets and PPV buys? If it's the biggest market, why is he struggling?

Meaning America has a much larger ECONOMIC MARKET because it's BIGGER and spread out among much more fighters than the UK could handle, therefore top fighters from other countries come to America and not the UK, because America is a BIGGER MARKET.

You're stuck on individual fighters not doing great on American PPV for some reason which is minuscule to the boxing market as a whole. Ward was still paid 6.5 million despite the PPV only doing 125K buys.

P4P lists are biased towards American fighters? Using ESPN's, 7 of the top 10 are NOT AMERICAN.

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/...-rankings-manny-pacquiao-loses-grounds-top-10

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Adonis don't want no part of Wheeler.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Adonis don't want no part of Wheeler.

Maybe we can get "Pretty" Ricky Conlan in there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1Huis_LRU

 

[PR_rambo]

Adonis don't want no part of Wheeler.

Stevenson did tweet out that he wants to unify the titles, but I mean he called out Kovalev too but never made a real attempt to face him either.

For Ward's part, he said he wants to go win belts at cruiserweight and heavyweight but after calling the crawford fight he did say he feels energized and wants to do what Terrence just did and hold all the belts. I hope he goes for it.

 

[cromofo]

Should I stay up until 3am to watch this shit or nah?

 

[RK9039]

Should I stay up until 3am to watch this shit or nah?

ye

i will

Got all my snacks ready.

 

[cromofo]

ye

i will

Got all my snacks ready.

I'm with you then

 

[Podge293]

Should I stay up until 3am to watch this shit or nah?

I wasn't going to but ah fuck it what else would I be doing on a Saturday night with a pregnant wife ha

 

[chromatic9]

Will be interesting to see how much power Conor has in his left hand

I'm not convinced the people he's knocked out would fare too well in boxing. Knockouts can look impressive, plenty of boxers early on get a lot of knockouts fighting your average boxer but these get less in general later. Boxing due to its pure simple form is great at weeding out those whose connective brain tissue fails them. With UFC/MMA you have to have a wide variety attacks to succeed and could also exclude most who just can box and take punches. No one is questioning how Conor or probably other UFC fighters would beat a boxer in the Octagon or how tough these MMA fighters.

Conor could hit Floyd with his best shot and only daze him a little and not drop like the others. Conor does have an impressive reach and long arm muscle, perhaps he is all that. Conor could have elite punching power needed whether he's fought genuine hard headed guys or not. Floyd has taken some heavy shots, he's not always a ghost, he's rode them out and gone on to win.

The UFC crowd think Conor has the hand of Thor. More likely it's a good hand, probably up there with other good boxers. If it's truly magical then Conor should win by 6 rounds as I expect him to catch Floyd.

I expect Floyd to win in the later rounds but wouldn't want to bet against the Irish spirit and a great fighter of Conor. I do love his range and mobility just punching. I bet he has the stamina but he's probably best served going for it within four to six rounds. Would be a great story for Conor to KO Floyd in 4 rounds.

 

[caesar]

I still kinda dont believe this shit is happening

 

[lightskintwin]

Per ESPN

$104,444: Highest transaction on StubHub for Mayweather-McGregor, for 4 ringside seats.

When Mayweather-McGregor was announced, the cheapest MGM Grand room for tonight (8/25) went up to $399. It's now $122.

 

[Moze]

Meaning America has a much larger ECONOMIC MARKET because it's BIGGER and spread out among much more fighters than the UK could handle, therefore top fighters from other countries come to America and not the UK, because America is a BIGGER MARKET.

You're stuck on individual fighters not doing great on American PPV for some reason which is minuscule to the boxing market as a whole. Ward was still paid 6.5 million despite the PPV only doing 125K buys.

P4P lists are biased towards American fighters? Using ESPN's, 7 of the top 10 are NOT AMERICAN.

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/...-rankings-manny-pacquiao-loses-grounds-top-10

Fighters don't come to the UK because UK fans only support British fighters.

I have no idea what your argument is at this point. PPV is what makes big fights. PPV is what attracts boxers. PPV is what gives us a good indication of public interest in boxing. If one country is finding it easier to sell tickets and PPV than the other country then that country has a bigger market. PPV is where it is at if a promoter wants to host a mega fight. Mega fights are where it is at for casual fans. to suggest PPV is not all that important is madness.


Most of the fighters on that list are signed and promoted in America.


For a market that is doing as well as you are suggesting, alot of elite fighters are struggling to sell tickets. Why is Ward struggling to sell tickets? Why is Wilder struggling to sell tickets? Even if you ignore PPV, these fighters can't sell actual tickets to their fights. And it is a very common theme among American fighters.

 

[_illmatic_]

Andre Ward is number one, won the super six, basically cleaned out super middleweight, also beat Light heavyweight champs Chad Dawson and Sergey Kovalev.

Thank you.

Golovkin's opponent resume is sad compared to Ward's.

I'm going to have to go with PR_rambo

Stop it, we already know Loma is #1 P4P even Teddy Atlas agrees! /s

 

[lightskintwin]

Fighters don't come to the UK because UK fans only support British fighters.

I have no idea what your argument is at this point. PPV is what makes big fights. PPV is what attracts boxers. PPV is what gives us a good indication of public interest in boxing. If one country is finding it easier to sell tickets and PPV than the other country then that country has a bigger market. PPV is where it is at if a promoter wants to host a mega fight. Mega fights are where it is at for casual fans. to suggest PPV is not all that important is madness.


Most of the fighters on that list are signed and promoted in America.


For a market that is doing as well as you are suggesting, alot of elite fighters are struggling to sell tickets. Why is Ward struggling to sell tickets? Why is Wilder struggling to sell tickets? Even if you ignore PPV, these fighters can't sell actual tickets to their fights. And it is a very common theme among American fighters.

If UK was the biggest market, the best fighters from all around the world would go there to fight because it's the BIGGEST MARKET. DUH....

OMG, you keep using PPV as some barometer of how big a market is when the majority of fighters don't fight on PPV in boxing.

And then using individuals to prove your point when you're not looking at the market as a whole.

How 'bout this, if you took all the purses that were made in a single year from America and added them up and then compared them to all the purses that were made in the UK, who would have vastly more? America easily because it's the biggest market. How difficult is that for you to understand? There are more fights that happen in America? Why's that? Because it's the biggest market.

I never made a value judgement on how well America's boxing market was, I was only disputing the incorrect claim that the UK is boxing's biggest market. It is not.

A more accurate statement may be that from a percentage standpoint, relative to the UK's size and population, it's boxing market is bigger than America's. Please go with that.

 

[Matthew23]

Should I stay up until 3am to watch this shit or nah?

I would.

Due to my work schedule I will have to sleep for 2 hours, wake up for the fight, try to sleep another 3 after, and then work a 12 hour shift. There will be no time to get out to a bar so I would have to put up money for the ppv as well.

Normally I wouldn't consider it but those hype videos are proving to be really effective marketing tools.