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Football Thread 2011/12 |OT7| Avaya ever heard anything like it?

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A

Arnie

Member
Wilbury said:
If he's from Liverpool I doubt he can avoid them haha! But yeah disliking the Beatles is bizarre to me. They're not my favourite band but they're fantastic.
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From Preston but a good portion of my family are from Liverpool so you can't go far without hearing them around the house or at family get togethers.



Wilbury said:
This is odd though. Do you feel the same about film criticism or literary criticism?

EDIT: And yeah Arcade Fire are brilliant. Along with Radiohead the best mainstream band in the world right now
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No. I feel that there are tangible areas of criticism with those mediums that you just don't get with music (acting, visual style, effects, narrative). Sure, you could pick apart the lyrics of a song and analyse them the way you would the narrative in a book, or a film, but the vast majority of music writers don't.

And why would they? For the vast majority of music the lyrics are just a foil, and the story they have to tell is dull and trite. Oh, you split up with a girl? Great. Now excuse me when I don't consider your writing as magnificent.

I've increasingly grown to enjoy music that doesn't pretend to have some higher, world altering message wrapped inside a three minute capsule. For example, when Nicki Minage says, "Fuck who you want, fuck who you like", I can appreciate that, and I know that nowhere is there a guy in a turtle neck sat tearing up whilst lacing it with superlatives.

sneaky77 said:
Arcade Fire and Radiohead are both terrible imo.. but tastes and shit.
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Another good point.

The pure range of subjectivity in music is far more vast than any other medium, and thus I feel the ability to properly critique it diminishes. We can all agree on good books, films and games, but that's never the case with music.
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
Arnie said:
No. I feel that there are tangible areas of criticism with those mediums that you just don't get with music (acting, visual style, effects, narrative). Sure, you could pick apart the lyrics of a song and analyse them the way you would the narrative in a book, or a film, but the vast majority of music writers don't.

And why would they? For the vast majority of music the lyrics are just a foil, and the story they have to tell is dull and trite. Oh, you split up with a girl? Great. Now excuse me when I don't consider your writing as magnificent.

I've increasingly grown to enjoy music that doesn't pretend to have some higher, world altering message wrapped inside a three minute capsule. For example, when Nicki Minage says, "Fuck who you want, fuck who you like", I can appreciate that, and I know that nowhere is there a guy in a turtle neck sat tearing up whilst lacing it with superlatives.
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Each to his own I suppose but there's lyrics, the sound, the technical quality of any given instrument, the voice and the words combining, the production quality, if the album as a whole is a concept or flows well... I dunno, I think it's just as valid of any criticism as other mediums are.

And fuck Nicki Minaj. It's not even a case of pretending to have a higher meaning (although that to me is strange criticism as well), she just makes awful music haha.

I get what you mean, but if an artist paints and an author writes and a director... directs, the work of a musician expressing themselves is just as valid as the others, irrespective of choice of media. But like I say, each to his own.

I like Katy Perry though. Firework, tune.
 
J

José Mourinho

cocknose
Was just on the Chelsea site and some of the players info has to be wrong, Sturridge is supposedly 6'2" and 12st 0lbs, whilst Gary Cahill is 6'2" and 11st 2lbs. I'd like to know who gathered that information.
 
B

Broder Salsa

Banned
A

Arnie

Member
Wilbury said:
I get what you mean, but if an artist paints and an author writes and a director... directs, the work of a musician expressing themselves is just as valid as the others, irrespective of choice of media. But like I say, each to his own.
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This is the argument that I refute the most.

I refuse to call the four members of The Carletons, or The Crookes artists. A great heap of musicians are just pretentious tools looking to skimp out of working life by learning instruments and throwing together utterly meaningless music. To borrow a Kermitism they've got the talent pool of a fucking meringue.

I can not write a good book. I can not write or direct a good film. I can not create a video game. I can make a song. And it doesn't matter if you don't like my song because some young hipster will listen to it and think it's altered their universe.


Fur_Q said:
Absolutely

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJyEWkTbtmE

Shits so cash
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Rebecca Black's Friday is a good song. Cut the shit out, get in a car with some mates, stick it on and have a sing song. That's what music's all about to me. I don't want to cry or anything.
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
Arnie said:
This is the argument that I refute the most.

I refuse to call the four members of The Carletons, or The Crookes artists. A great heap of musicians are just pretentious tools looking to skimp out of working life by learning instruments and throwing together utterly meaningless music. To borrow a Kermitism they've got the talent pool of a fucking meringue.

I can not write a good book. I can not write or direct a good film. I can not create a video game. I can make a song. And it doesn't matter if you don't like my song because some young hipster will listen to it and think it's altered their universe.
Click to expand...

But you've used good for book and film and not for song. I could write a book but I may not be able to write or produce a good song. If Terrence Malick is an artist and Michael Bay is an artist yet the quality of their movies are two different things entirely, then the argument is that (yeah obviously preference comes into it) Leonard Cohen is an artist and Rhianna is an artist. Or Michael Bay isn't and Rhianna isn't, or vice versa.

Transformers 2 is an utterly vapid film devoid of any entertainment whatsoever and made by a man who has the subtlety of an elephant trying to finger someone. But I wouldn't write off the majority of the film industry based on his work. People do love Transformers, people probably have had their life changed because now they wear Bumblebee t-shirts. It's an odd argument in my eyes because you could make exactly the same argument for a film.

Rebecca Black's Friday is a good song. Cut the shit out, get in a car with some mates, stick it on and have a sing song. That's what music's all about to me. I don't want to cry or anything.
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wat
 
J

José Mourinho

cocknose
J

José Mourinho

cocknose
As another comparison it says Drogha is 6'2" and 14st 5lbs, Drogba is a big fella but so is Cahill, I wouln't think there is 3st 3lbs between the two. Maybe somebody just makes up this information.
 
A

Arnie

Member
Wilbury said:
But you've used good for book and film and not for song. I could write a book but I may not be able to write or produce a good song.
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A valid point. My argument is that the level of ability and talent required to make a good book, film or game is orders of magnitude greater than what's needed to make a great song.

I read A Song of Ice and Fire and marvel at George RR Martin's ability to write. It's something that I'm completely positive I would not be able to produce, and it's something that's taken decades of practice and care.

I listen to The Smiths and I see Morrissey, who's lyrics are regarded by some as almost holy, and I see nothing of profound importance that I could not have written myself. I see no needle that I could not have threaded myself. Sure, Johnny Marr's guitar riffs are pretty great, but they are at the end of the day small jingles that probably took no longer than an hour to craft, no matter how great they sound on the ear.

Here we have a comparison between two mediums, both of which represent the upper echelon of their craft. I hope that illustrates my point.

Oh and Tree of Life was shit so I'm not having Mallick used as an example of exceptional film making.

Fur_Q said:
Ok then................... not a song but watch this with headphones on shit moves you to no end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K75w6p7cKB8
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I appreciate the craft in that music from Inception. I'd put that above anything produced by The Smiths, for example. Yet that's just a sliver of Inception. You can say Inception had an excellent musical score, but that's just a bullet point in a long critique of the film.
 
B

Broder Salsa

Banned
Vivalaraza said:
Official stats say De Gea is 6"4 which is certainly not true.
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Well yeah official stats can be wrong. Brøndbys height claims of Chris Katongo (african nation captain winner, lol)

katongokf4.jpg
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
Arnie said:
A valid point. My argument is that the level of ability and talent required to make a good book, film or game is orders of magnitude greater than what's needed to make a great song.

I read A Song of Ice and Fire and marvel at George RR Martin's ability to write. It's something that I'm completely positive I would not be able to produce, and it's something that's taken decades of practice and care.

I listen to The Smiths and I see Morrissey, who's lyrics are regarded by some as almost holy, and I see nothing of profound importance that I could not have written myself. I see no needle that I could not have threaded myself. Sure, Johnny Marr's guitar riffs are pretty great, but they are at the end of the day small jingles that probably took no longer than an hour to craft, no matter how great they sound on the ear.

Here we have a comparison between two mediums, both of which represent the upper echelon of their craft. I hope that illustrates my point.

Oh and Tree of Life was shit so I'm not having Mallick used as an example of exceptional film making.
Click to expand...

I didn't like Tree Of Life either haha, but the difference is so contrasting between Bay's style and Malick's that I hope the point stands!

I get what you mean, we'll agree to disagree.
 
A

Arnie

Member
Wilbury said:
I didn't like Tree Of Life either haha, but the difference is so contrasting between Bay's style and Malick's that I hope the point stands!

I get what you mean, we'll agree to disagree.
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Probably for the best, I wrote 'now' instead of 'no' before. My eyes, brain and hands aren't co-ordinating effectively. The sad part is I've got to finish writing an article that needs laying up tomorrow. Might just call it quits for tonight, relax into bed with my book, and finish it tomorrow after a fresh mug of tea.
 
S

sneaky77

Member
Wilbury said:
I didn't like Tree Of Life either haha, but the difference is so contrasting between Bay's style and Malick's that I hope the point stands!

I get what you mean, we'll agree to disagree.
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Tree of Life was such pretentious trite, ... agh, beautifully shot, but as a movie just wasnt for me
 
F

Fur_Q

Member
Arnie said:
Probably for the best, I wrote 'now' instead of 'no' before. My eyes, brain and hands aren't co-ordinating effectively. The sad part is I've got to finish writing an article that needs laying up tomorrow. Might just call it quits for tonight, relax into bed with my book, and finish it tomorrow after a fresh mug of tea.
Click to expand...

Wait until you lose people, music will have alot more resonance then, also with age.
 
J

José Mourinho

cocknose
Arnie said:
A valid point. My argument is that the level of ability and talent required to make a good book, film or game is orders of magnitude greater than what's needed to make a great song.

I read A Song of Ice and Fire and marvel at George RR Martin's ability to write. It's something that I'm completely positive I would not be able to produce, and it's something that's taken decades of practice and care.

I listen to The Smiths and I see Morrissey, who's lyrics are regarded by some as almost holy, and I see nothing of profound importance that I could not have written myself. I see no needle that I could not have threaded myself. Sure, Johnny Marr's guitar riffs are pretty great, but they are at the end of the day small jingles that probably took no longer than an hour to craft, no matter how great they sound on the ear.

Here we have a comparison between two mediums, both of which represent the upper echelon of their craft. I hope that illustrates my point.

Oh and Tree of Life was shit so I'm not having Mallick used as an example of exceptional film making.


I appreciate the craft in that music from Inception. I'd put that above anything produced by The Smiths, for example. Yet that's just a sliver of Inception. You can say Inception had an excellent musical score, but that's just a bullet point in a long critique of the film.
Click to expand...
Hmm, but see, I read A Song of Ice and Fire and think it's guff. Just a bunch of fantasy bullshit anybody could come up with. I listen to Morrissey and think much the same as you, but then I listen to some amazing guitar riff and think, wow, I could never come up with that. I don't think you can critique music any differently than any other medium. On the other side of the coin, there are books I read that I think are amazing and I could never come up with, but I can also listen to say, Blink-182 songs that I love, but know I could create a riff just as good.
 
A

Arnie

Member
sneaky77 said:
Tree of Life was such pretentious trite, ... agh, beautifully shot, but as a movie just wasnt for me
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That dinosaur bit made me want to head butt my drink.
Fur_Q said:
Wait until you lose people, music will have alot more resonance then, also with age.
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Could well be true. Although I'm frightened I'll turn into my dad and start subconsciously categorising people as 'mods' and 'rockers' whilst I'm out at the shops.

If that happens you've got permission to end me.

Kylehimself said:
Hmm, but see, I read A Song of Ice and Fire and think it's guff. Just a bunch of fantasy bullshit anybody could come up with. I listen to Morrissey and think much the same as you, but then I listen to some amazing guitar riff and think, wow, I could never come up with that. I don't think you can critique music any differently than any other medium. On the other side of the coin, there are books I read that I think are amazing and I could never come up with, but I can also listen to say, Blink-182 songs that I love, but know I could create a riff just as good.
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Subjectivity is one thing, but no matter what your opinion of ASOIAF is, you're kidding yourself if you think you could write it. Martin has a real talent, and that's something I can admire, regardless of whether I'm into the fantasy setting (which I'm not normally).

I'm with you though, I love Blink 182, yet their shit is so easy to play on the guitar. Perhaps that's why I love them, they epitomise my opinion of music, and I can play their stuff quite easily in my room. I much prefer that than listening to Morrissey spout metaphors about capitalist oppression whilst he slaps a bouquet of flowers against his ass.
 
A

Arnie

Member
Fur_Q said:
Put it this way, I can't even to this day listen to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY9b6jgbNyc

Kills me, sister died at 22. And the clues in the song. :...(
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Perhaps I'll see it in a similar vein one day. I already do have songs that I connect to certain events, Louis Armstrong's 'What a Wonderful World' which was played at my Grandads funeral, for example.

I loved Coldplay btw, the perfect band for me at Glastonbury. A cider, a setting sun, some friends and a poncho to piss under.
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
ca146613-e242-45f7-bc31-35c922974057.png


Ugh. Nike have gone done the drainage over the last few years. At this rate they'll release Pro Evo kits. I wish supporters associations petition the clubs to reject these designs on behalf of the fans
 
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