This is stupid. Chicha offers nothing in terms of build-up play. We got two goals from set pieces and we were really lucky! He wouldn't be saying this if RVP didn't go godmode.
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Football Thread 2012/13 |OT3| Two-sided triangles
- Thread starter elseanio
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This is stupid. Chicha offers nothing in terms of build-up play. We got two goals from set pieces and we were really lucky! He wouldn't be saying this if RVP didn't go godmode.
RVP didn't have all that much choice, Juve wouldn't stump up the money so it was always going to be a Manchester club.
AndresON777
shooting blanks
Damn Porto play beautiful football. Nice goal by James too. I wish they showed the portuguese league in the us
When Lucas comes back, he should start alongside Sahin and Allen. Gerrard's lost it.
So why did you accept less the year after? I'm guessing because Cesc forced a move.
LOL yeah and Nasri is on less at City too am I right?
I'm not disputing that what RVP did was dickish. But it seems fucking ludicrous to me you all just fud your bumholes still over Fabregas when he most certainly pushed for a move in a rather cowardly way. Went on and on in the press about not wanting to disrespect Wenger, about loving the fans but still made it known he wanted to leave. It's cowardly really.
would you be saying the same thing if fabregas was wearing a united shirt right now and scoring hat tricks?
honestly just say it, its not about RVP or Fabregas or this loyalty bullshit. Its about Manchester United and Arsenal's inferiority complex
The_Hitcher89
Member
Irrelevant. He had a choice between Arsenal & loyalty (everyone's favourite word) and Man Utd, and he chose Man Utd
iirc he took a pay cut to facilitate a move.
But staying at Arsenal to not win anything during his peak would've been stupid. It's the sort of thing you'd look back on and think I wish I'd moved if he hadn't done.
Now I'm not saying we're going to guarantee him silverware but he's got a far, far better chance here than he did at the Emirates.
Nope, just didn't take a loyalty bonus that was owed to him. Ironically.
José Mourinho
cocknose
What are you talking about? How does me thinking that loyalty in football doesn't exist prompt this response?
And by the way, I believe it was the case that all three clubs involved in the Hazard transfer were all prepared to pony up. It was then left to Hazard to decide where he wanted to go. Just because old man Fergie (as good a manager as he is) decided to come out after the fact and talk some shit about him being too expensive, doesn't mean he wasn't for paying up. He missed out and talked some crap, what's new?
He did. He accepted a pay cut so Barca could pay us more because we wouldn't accept their offer. There was also a gentlemans agreement between Cesc and Wenger to allow Cesc to go as it was Wenger who pushed the deal through when the board were refusing.
IMO, Cesc acted honorably and I have all the respect in the world for him.
RVP on the other hand. How the hell can one defend this guy? Baffling.
Okay some extended thoughts on the Saints game now its all settled in. I won't talk about the game on a whole because A) It still hurts and B) I can't be assed. So instead i'll pick a few players to talk about.
The Good.
Morgan Schneiderlin - Bossed the midfield, massively involved in both goals and sprays the ball around beautifully. When he first joined as a sprightly 18 year old he was too lightweight but the talent was there, now fulfilling it. Nice guy as well, ladies love him.
James Ward-Prowse - 17 fucking years old, helped Morgan boss the midfield, so composed on the ball, very mature for his age, fantastic engine and a decent range of passing. Can see him keeping Cork and S.Davis out of the side alot this season.
Rickie Lambert - Talisman. Goalscorer. Match winner? Nearly. Textbook Rickie Lambert back stick header, isolated the full back and powered in. Bettered Rio in duels with him, worked well off Vidic to win free kicks. Great cross for the 2nd. Right were a striker would want it. If Liverpool don't attempt to sign him in January, they are fucking nuts.
The Bad
Danny Fox - Useless as ever. Out of position all day. Quiet going forward, at least he attempted no 40 yard hollywood balls. Just fucking stick Luke Shaw in.
Kelvin Davis - Never the most talented goal keeper in the world, KD was well known for his experience, intelligence and composure. Now looks like a man who has never played football.
The Good.
Morgan Schneiderlin - Bossed the midfield, massively involved in both goals and sprays the ball around beautifully. When he first joined as a sprightly 18 year old he was too lightweight but the talent was there, now fulfilling it. Nice guy as well, ladies love him.
James Ward-Prowse - 17 fucking years old, helped Morgan boss the midfield, so composed on the ball, very mature for his age, fantastic engine and a decent range of passing. Can see him keeping Cork and S.Davis out of the side alot this season.
Rickie Lambert - Talisman. Goalscorer. Match winner? Nearly. Textbook Rickie Lambert back stick header, isolated the full back and powered in. Bettered Rio in duels with him, worked well off Vidic to win free kicks. Great cross for the 2nd. Right were a striker would want it. If Liverpool don't attempt to sign him in January, they are fucking nuts.
The Bad
Danny Fox - Useless as ever. Out of position all day. Quiet going forward, at least he attempted no 40 yard hollywood balls. Just fucking stick Luke Shaw in.
Kelvin Davis - Never the most talented goal keeper in the world, KD was well known for his experience, intelligence and composure. Now looks like a man who has never played football.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Did you even read the post you quoted? They both left for similar understandable reasons, but their departure in itself isn't what antangonised the fans. This isn't a case of fans being upset because their best player left for greener pastures. On the contrary, actually, their departures weren't at all surprises but expected, especially in the case of Cesc. The problem, as I've said multiple nows, was their destination. Fabregas left for the best club side in the world, who were his boyhood club. Van Persie, linked with moves abroad, chooses a team many at Arsenal dislike from the rival history, who just happen to be a Top 4 league side the club intends to compete with. It is that context in which people are bitter about. Were Man Utd his only option for silverware? According to the man himself, no ("I’m sure I could win things at another team in another country.."). Were they the only side to have been interested? No. Did he "push for a move to Old Trafford"? According to Ferguson, yes. What Cesc wanted, he could only get at one place and it was a place none of us could question. The same cant be said for Van Persie. Imo, nothing he had done wearing the Arsenal shirt means anything in hindsight. He is nothing to us, but a symbol of disgust for his indifference to choosing Man Utd.
The Toure transfer isn't as comparable. Toure wasn't even a regular in the side, and defenders are rarely crowd favourites or match deciders. In addition to this, it happened at a time where we still had our 'stars'; he was allowed to leave because we didn't need him, or really want him that much. Contrast this to the Nasri transfer and its the complete opposite in terms of reaction. But Nasri had been there for a few years, RVP had been there since 2004 and wore the armband.
I can't articulate this any further, but if you cant appreciate the huge distinctions in these comparisons then I cant help you
AndresON777
shooting blanks
we should try to sell alexis and convert adriano to his position so he doesn't have to defend as much. damn, almost had a heart attack during the valencia game today. we dodged a massive bullet.
why is villa not playing? i dont get it
---lol that avatar is borderline nsfw. looks like there's a massive limp cock on my screen
He was owed 4.4m in loyalty fees as part of the transfer and decided to work that into his weekly wages. He took a cut on what was originally owed, but he didn't take a cut on his Arsenal wages.
Actually, City and United decided to give up on Hazard because of the crazy fees the agent was demanding. They were gonna comply with the transfer fee itself.
If you saw how Hazard built up his move on Twitter and such, he didn't care where he moved out of the 3 clubs.
Lets see this on a consistent basis first. He played on the right when alba came on. I don't mind him honestly, he is a decent squad player. But id never choose him if alba and alves were fit. That said, today he was beastly and was MOTM.
90TilInfinity
Member
And for his statement? Throughout the season Gooners were saying if Robin left then it'd be fair dos. Then he disrespected the manager and the club with that statement, and left for a club all Gooners despise. How is that the same as Cesc's situation? Or Clichy's? Or Kolo's?
He's on 58,000 per week, isn't that much lower than what he was on at Arsenal?
José Mourinho
cocknose
So if City and Utd pulled out why did Hazard need to have a daft Twitter reveal if there was only one club left in the running? Surely the world would have known?
It's all pointless details anyway. I don't for a second believe he chose Chelsea for any special reason, nor do I care. He came here and he's a diamond, I'm happy.
But back the original topic. Why does my lack of belief in football loyalty prompt your first reply?
Well then that's some Arsenal fans deluding themselves by thinking that either van Persie was going to turn United down so he could stay and risk winning nothing, or that up until this season United fans still credited you as a rival. It's like Newcastle fans seem to love beating United, but beating Newcastle does fuck all for me apart from put three points on the board.
Linked with who, exactly? Real Madrid and Barcelona when it was just tabloid gossip? Juventus who were clearly not going to pony up the dough?
It seems to me like along with City they were the only viable option. Madrid and Barca didn't make offers; City, United and Juventus did. By all accounts Juve's offer was risible. He didn't want to go City. He picked United.
If I've got the Fabregas case wrong and he did take a wage cut, then he also pushed for a move by accepting a lower salary so he could get the fuck out of Dodge. Where's the difference there?
Well then blame mindless general hysteria for the reaction.
Evidently van Persie was allowed to leave because your board did nothing in terms of offering him a satisfactory contract and your manager did nothing in terms of guaranteeing future success.
Gareth Bale
Member
Yeah, there's no way United would have paid £6 million on top of the £32 million to sign Hazard.
You don't think loyalty exists with players like Xavi/Puyol? Scholes/Giggs?
The_Hitcher89
Member
AndresON777
shooting blanks
Barca is a loyal club by trotting out that ridiculous goalkeeper every god damn week.
José Mourinho
cocknose
But much the same as just about every other transfer completed, there isn't any real information on the money. This six million is speculation. The only people who know how much was actually paid is Hazard's agent and Chelsea F.C.
But I know the fuzziness of the details makes great spin for folks like yourselves.
I said I don't believe there is loyalty in football, or at least there isn't a great deal of it. Of course there are some players who are loyal to particular clubs, but they are the exception, not the rule.
My two cents on the whole Arsenal selling club stuff: Fabregas gave 100% on the pitch even when he wanted to leave and never disrespected the club, whether through comments in the press or by winding down his contract to force a move. I don't hold the irrational hatred towards Nasri many Arsenal supporters do (hell, I think he was the ready-made replacement for Fabregas the side needed), but, really, Fabregas carried the side almost single-handedly to a title challenge year in year out. Even when he wanted to leave. And it hurts knowing that if Wenger had matched that ambition, he would certainly still be at Arsenal.
The Kolo Toure and Clichy transfers (who were both stupid sells, but ONLY because they were not replaced properly) aren't really comparable to the Fabreags transfer IMO. And the main reason Adebayor gets huge shit from Arsenal fans is because he, unlike Fabregas, RVP, Nasri, etc. was complete and utter shit during his final season. The reason why RVP hurts is because it, more than any 8-2 result, demonstrates how far the gap has become between two clubs who do spend within their means. The Chelsea, City money excuse holds no water with United. And the fact is that until Arsenal wins another PL title (not another trophy, but the league title), that gap will still be there.
Regardless, I've always felt it doesn't matter whether Arsenal is a selling club or not. You can make cheap, easy purchases to strengthen the team. The biggest blow to the Fabregas side wasn't losing an Adebayor, or a Toure, or a Hleb. It was because Wenger never replaced a player like Flamini, who's role was the complete opposite of any "star". It's those kinds of purchases that build title winning squads, not "stars." I'm always annoyed when Wenger talks about not having 100m to spend: well, no one wants you to spend 100m. How about 10m?
The Kolo Toure and Clichy transfers (who were both stupid sells, but ONLY because they were not replaced properly) aren't really comparable to the Fabreags transfer IMO. And the main reason Adebayor gets huge shit from Arsenal fans is because he, unlike Fabregas, RVP, Nasri, etc. was complete and utter shit during his final season. The reason why RVP hurts is because it, more than any 8-2 result, demonstrates how far the gap has become between two clubs who do spend within their means. The Chelsea, City money excuse holds no water with United. And the fact is that until Arsenal wins another PL title (not another trophy, but the league title), that gap will still be there.
Regardless, I've always felt it doesn't matter whether Arsenal is a selling club or not. You can make cheap, easy purchases to strengthen the team. The biggest blow to the Fabregas side wasn't losing an Adebayor, or a Toure, or a Hleb. It was because Wenger never replaced a player like Flamini, who's role was the complete opposite of any "star". It's those kinds of purchases that build title winning squads, not "stars." I'm always annoyed when Wenger talks about not having 100m to spend: well, no one wants you to spend 100m. How about 10m?
The amount of pictures of her humping various objects is astounding. I was going to use her as an avatar but couldn't be bothered making one.
One of my new favorite Twitter follows by far.
We know Cesc wanted to leave, no one disputes that, we all expected and knew it would come. But are you that daft you can't see the difference in returning to his home land, boyhood club and dream, playing for the best side in the world compared to moving to our rivals in the same league? RVP forced his move in a very disrespectful way, Cesc didn't.
I'm sure you would have no problem if Rooney and Nani turned up in a Man City shirt.
Cesc gave our club so much. I love everything he done for us and yeah it hurts. Because we let the man down who put his body through hell to try and get us to win and we didn't reward him for it but throughout the whole thing remained loyal to the point he openly referred to Wenger as a second father to him.
Didn't keep up much with the transfer did you. Chelsea only got involved after you guys won the CL. The twitter reveal was solely for his amusement and ego.
I guess I went a bit too far with my first reply. I think it's just that for Chelsea, they gained a lot of plastic fans (not saying you're one) who thinks the club could buy every single goddamn player out there, thst for them, lolyalty would not even exist.
It's like you said though. You don't care for the reasons he went there. For United though, having a player who actually wants to play for the club and not just money is important, but also sought after.
Might be wrong on that one, apologies for being bolshy. Performance wise though I'm sure I read somewhere that the appearance fee because of the loyalty bonus is mental... something like 25k an appearance or so.
Personally, I think Cesc was a coward for making it completely clear he wanted out but pussyfooting around saying so. He had the gall to say he wasn't disrespecting the manager and the club, but he wanted to move anyway.
Clichy lambasted players that moved to City and then moved there anyway.
van Persie's statement:
Fair play, same as Cesc.
Sounds like the board have fucked up and said "well seems like we might not ever win anything but stay anyway"
I honestly don't get what's wrong with saying that. I don't get it. Better he expresses himself rather than leaves and then talks shit about the club.
Sounds like something Fabregas would say.
I really don't get what's wrong with his statement. The only difference is he did it through an official and formal source rather than saying it in a number of collated interviews over the years.
She really doesn't seem to hold back, comment wise.
I'd love it to be the final of the CL.
One of them made his name early in his career and didn't budge from Arsenal until Wenger felt he should, and never said a bad word about the manger or club. The other played about a half of the time he spent at the club and whilst he was a nobody loved the club and took his money. One year he spends without injury finally delivers and decides to piss all over the club and leaves for a direct rival.
Yeah totally the same.
I think it doesn't hurt that both of those sides win.
The difference is with Rooney and Nani I wouldn't spend half the time wanking off over one of them and hating the other.
I see a difference in some circumstances, but there is a direct correlation between chances of winning trophies at the club they did go to and the one they left. United are not Arsenal's rivals. Spurs, Liverpool and Newcastle are your rivals. He left for a club who are more likely to win trophies at this given time, simple as that.
If Rooney left for City, he's leaving for a direct title rival and a local rival. If United were coming 3rd and 4th 20 points off the top and he left for Arsenal who finished first or second every year, then good luck to him because he didn't have a chance of winning here and he hasn't moved to a club I actively dislike.
And if van Persie had three, four years left on his contract and Wenger hadn't decided to sell, he wouldn't have gone. It's the board's fault that there was no guarantees van Persie would be in a position to achieve what he wanted with a year left on his contract.
Arsenal are not a direct rival.
Wilbury, the difference is simple. RVP did it to force a sale, knowingly lowering his resale value to the club. He couldn't go back after that and he knew it; Fabregas went back twice and still played phenomenally and would have done it again. Not to mention, that was the first season RVP played regularly without injury; he owed a lot to Wenger (who also turned him into the prolific goal scorer he now is, when he could and should have bought a replacement for Adebayor), and he knew it, and the statement, while claiming "respect" was obviously anything but.
Still, Wenger was stupid and naive to let Fabregas go, but it's the much-needed slap in the face Wenger needed to rebuild anew. Don't really give a shit about RVP leaving; should've gone to Juve or City, but what can you do?
Still, Wenger was stupid and naive to let Fabregas go, but it's the much-needed slap in the face Wenger needed to rebuild anew. Don't really give a shit about RVP leaving; should've gone to Juve or City, but what can you do?
AndresON777
shooting blanks
because he totally shouldve wasted his career at a club that cant win shit, wont buy players to support him, sells everyone around him and cant negotiate a contract until its almost done
totally logical thing to stay there to please some goons. only an idiot would move to a better paying club, with a better contract, that has a chance of winning something.
totally
José Mourinho
cocknose
I did keep up with it in fact, and up until the reveal, there were three clubs in the running. Now I don't know if you remember, but in this very thread there were fans of Chelsea, City and MUFC all posting and hoping that he was going to pick their respective clubs. So if the Twitter reveal was nout but an ego trip for the lad, then the City and United fans on here missed the memo, cause they thought they were in the running.
I don't care because Hazard has absolutely no ties to Chelsea. The same way he had no ties to United or City, whatever reason he came to Chelsea is for him to worry about, not the fans. Which for me is the same as most transfers, these players don't support our clubs, so the decision is arbitrary.
And as for...
Take RVP, boyhood Arsenal lover (don't make me get that picture). What makes you think he really wants to play for United? Of course he can say buzz words etc like, united are a great club, great history blah blah, which is all true. But he isn't there because he loves United so much, it because they're a good side who compete and who can win stuff with.
Well that helps.
Gareth Bale
Member
I think the real information that you're talking about is only ever going to be available if the club is listed on the London Stock Exchange. That £6 million figure has been widely reported, and you'd expect that when is agent is offering the player out to so many clubs his demands are going to be pretty well known.
And spin? Really?
Yeah he's managed to go under the hate-radar.
Fabregas went back twice because he had years left on his contract. If he played phenomenally and then at the end of the season his contract was over, he wouldn't have signed a new one with Arsenal to guarantee them a transfer fee or anything, he would have moved straight to Barcelona. And everyone knew he wanted to go.
The van Persie statement let everyone know he wanted to go - but was done officially, formally and carefully worded as opposed to off hand remarks in every interview you have - and he had a year left on his contract. If he had three years left then Wenger can do what the fuck he wants when he wants. But with a year left and put in that position where the board and Wenger seem unable to be able to say to the man who has carried them all year into a European place that they'll be able to push on... I don't see how you can blame him.
He should have gone to Juventus and perhaps he would have to save face with the Arsenal fans. But once they made a derisory offer, that wasn't going to happen. Don't know how City and United differ, neither are a direct rival to Arsenal. You're all just living in the past.
I would love to sell players to Manchester United, Owen is a nice piece of business.
He'd burn down the training ground for god's sake. We'll take Schweinsteiger if you're offering though, cheers
or maybe not if he's still playing shit.
Gustavo? Martinez? not for 40m though, fuck that
Xavi and Puyol are poor examples of being loyal to a team?
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