The_Hitcher89
Member
When you spend as much as he has, you win or you fail. He didn't win.
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Football Thread |OT19| LA DECIMATED
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When you spend as much as he has, you win or you fail. He didn't win.
Baconsaurus Rex
Member
lol
Awesome Animals
Member
Subbing. I can't wait to face Norwich Saturday. I pray we carry our momentum
TheFeedingHand
Member
Somehow I feel that Barca will be able to pull out a remuntada. Madrid were shaky all season after all, the only games where they didn't have any problems were against Bacon's Ajax.
My team is always relevant for me.
The_Hitcher89
Member
well put.
TheFeedingHand
Member
TheFeedingHand
Member
Arsenal managed a 2-0 away against them... so it's definitely possible.
Freewheelin'
Member
Can't see Barca doing a REMUNDTA tomorrow, as much as I'd like to see Messi and Iniesta destroy those Bayern cunts.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Since Bayern are through anyway, I hope 'drunken 60 year old on a dancefloor' Messi turns up again.
Mou's net spend in his first season was 58m Euros. Not really that much considering he got Ozil, Khedira, Canales, Di Maria and Carvalho. In his second it was 46m Euros, and he got Sahin, Altintop, Callejon, Varane and Coentrao for that.
This season, their net spend was one million Euros. One. It's a myth that Mourinho has spent absolutely ludicrous amounts of money. Just over 100m Euros over three seasons at Real Madrid really isn't that much, considering the amount of players they've brought in.
In comparison Barcelona's net spend over the same period is 78m, Bayern's is around 100m as well. Bayern have won one league title and no Champions Leagues in that period, the same as Real Madrid and are probably the strongest team they've ever had. Barcelona's first year of that period was also the strongest team they've ever had and they've won two league titles and one Champions League. Better than Madrid, sure, but no league title last year and no Champions Leagues in the last two seasons. All three of their records have been identical over the last two seasons (if Bayern don't win the CL), with Mourinho counting two domestic cups as well providing he beats Atletico.
He hasn't failed. He's come up against the best team in the world in his first season, went out in an even match against Bayern and won the league in his second, and has come up against a Dortmund team where it just seems like their time, like Chelsea last year. The Malaga goals, the narrow lack of remuntada tonight, the manager, Gotze and Lewa's potential swansongs, the togetherness, the peaking at exactly the right time.
He hasn't failed by a long shot for me. Not at all. Not to count internal strife, the press, Messi, the egos at the club, the hierarchies within the club. He's done as good a job as he can over three years.
Vivalaraza
Member
Well he's the deputy prime minister of a nation which treats specific people in a rather despicable way. He has some responsibility for it IMO.
tarzanpuyol
Member
word
RUMBO > United
Freewheelin'
Member
Basically comeback in Spanish.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Fair enough, I forgot that he didn;t personally buy his ludicrously strong spine
Casillas, Ramos, Pepe, Alonso, Ronaldo, Higuain and Benzema
They're not all world class, but that spine, combined with the money he did spend, should be well capable of coming much closer to CL glory than he managed.
Vivalaraza
Member
Not sure you can say Mourinho "failed". Did manage to win the title after all and has won quite a few games against Barca. Sure he didn't clinch the CL so he has to be marked down for that but surely no CL win doesn't = failure.
What his spell at Madrid has proved to me however is that he is just destructive. I don't think he can build a club, or truly take it forwards. This is why i no longer want him at United.
What his spell at Madrid has proved to me however is that he is just destructive. I don't think he can build a club, or truly take it forwards. This is why i no longer want him at United.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Friday Night Lights is truly terrible and I hope to never see it again, it's made by a bunch of monkeys I'm sure, what the fuck is up with the camera work? It's not something I ever really notice or give any thought to, but it's so bad in friday night lights, stop shaking it you twats.
TheFeedingHand
Member
fixed. You don't wanna piss off Catalonia, do you?
Gimmie Klopp #BasedGlazers
Broder Salsa
Banned
Mou went in and destroyed Spanish football like a champ, what a hero.
By then Coutinho will be at Madrid
Awesome Animals
Member
Stick with it through Season 2.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Atletico Madrid, sure.
The_Hitcher89
Member
And we'll be smashing their shit in the final, winning 13-3 to overcome a Coutinho hatrick of halfway-line lobs, which only go in because of Rodgers' revolutionary 'keeper as a centre-back' tactic
Vivalaraza
Member
Never thought of it like that. A noble cause indeed.
On FNL - I enjoyed it, it's a good watch but GAF seems to really over rate it.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Well no one ever really meets Madrids expectations. Pellegrini got more points in La Liga than Real had ever managed before and still got fired.
Well, Ramos and Pepe are a notoriously stupid centre back pairing; of course Mou should take the blame for keeping faith with them yeah, but they're sent out onto a pitch to do a job, and then they fucking brainfart. Not his fault the second they go onto the pitch (but yeah, should they be on there?). Higuain and Benzema aren't top class at all. At all. And whether that's Mou's choice to not buy a new striker or Perez's, they're just not.
Casillas is great, but Lopez is in the side on merit right now. Only Alonso and Ronaldo are top top players out of those you mentioned (and currently playing in Iker's case), so - and I suppose I'm arguing against myself because Mou hasn't replaced them and/or is playing them - the spine isn't necessarily so wonderful. He came very close to the CL glory for me, as close as he could have got with the side he had and who he came up against.
I know I'm repeating myself a fucking awful lot tonight but:
* 0-0 at the Nou Camp until Pepe was sent off harshly and Messi scored an absolutely incredible incredible goal. Ended 2-0, and 3-1 on aggregate.
* Lost 2-1 at the Allianz, won 2-1 at home, went out on penalties. Luck, not much else.
* 4-3 overall this season. 4-1 at Dortmund was an embarrassing match yeah, but there's something special about this Dortmund team, it just seems like their time.
He got very very close and there is understandable reasons as to why he didn't win it all three times I think.
I agree with this, yeah.
Well no one ever really meets Madrids expectations. Pellegrini got more points in La Liga than Real had ever managed before and still got fired.
Yeah thats true, they are a bit like the NY Yankees....
But he was brought in to win that CL because he's done it everywhere else hes been.
So he failed by Madrid's standards?
Madrid's standards are so fucking high they'd sack Jesus. Are we really going to judge him by that fucking lot of nutjobs?
Not Chelsea.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Madrid was his greatest challenge. This was a club that even before Barcelona's rise was going through managerial changes almost every season as they tried desperately to rediscover their dramatic success of years past.
Mourinho didn't fail as a football coach. He's produced the most successful Madrid side in a decade in win %, trophies and even goals scored (and yes, they outscored Barca since he's been there). Mourinho failed in creating a relationship with the players with his man management; he failed to bond with the fans because of his footballing style and the he frequently clashed with the media. But none of these were unique to Mourinho; the club was mired with a lack of stability for several years before him whilst their friends in Catalunya have dominated the European stage playing the 'Madrid way'.
His spell in Spain will not affect his reputation negatively nor dampen his CV - I don't think even the most angry Madrid fan would question Mourinho's ability to coach well; it just wasn't an ideal match between the two.
But who is going to want to manage a squad who have clashed with someone of Mourinho's stature, and an overly critical press and a vocal section of fans who want nothing less than i.e. tika taka + trophies? Ancelotti?! I'll give him 12 months before he walks
Mourinho didn't fail as a football coach. He's produced the most successful Madrid side in a decade in win %, trophies and even goals scored (and yes, they outscored Barca since he's been there). Mourinho failed in creating a relationship with the players with his man management; he failed to bond with the fans because of his footballing style and the he frequently clashed with the media. But none of these were unique to Mourinho; the club was mired with a lack of stability for several years before him whilst their friends in Catalunya have dominated the European stage playing the 'Madrid way'.
His spell in Spain will not affect his reputation negatively nor dampen his CV - I don't think even the most angry Madrid fan would question Mourinho's ability to coach well; it just wasn't an ideal match between the two.
But who is going to want to manage a squad who have clashed with someone of Mourinho's stature, and an overly critical press and a vocal section of fans who want nothing less than i.e. tika taka + trophies? Ancelotti?! I'll give him 12 months before he walks
Yes?
Mourinho was brought in with the expectation of bringing home a European Cup. He didn't deliver. The fact that he had one of the most, if not the most, expensive squad in history at his disposal, the fact that every Spanish player hates him, the press hates him, he destroyed the club's structure along the way (a good thing, imo), etc., he spent a lot of money, he didn't spend a lot of money... it doesn't really matter. the fact that the team has been terrible in the league this season doesn't exactly help his argument.
He knew that when he took the job. That's why he took the job.
I don't know if I agree that Madrid was his greatest challenge—certainly it's the most high pressure job he's ever taken, but it's also the from the highest position of strength he's ever started from either. Kinda like Guardiola at Bayern I guess; there's nowhere to go but down.
TheFeedingHand
Member
Many players are finished at Madrid once Mourinho leaves: Coentrao, Pepe, Benzema, Higuain, Khedira, Kaka.
They all need to be sold.
They all need to be sold.
Vivalaraza
Member
Dunno. They have to score 5 goals.
Madrid "only" needed 3.
And they're facing a better team too.
Your right. Coutinho will be playing for Liverpool against Real Madrid in the CL final at the Bernabeu. Sturridge will be dancing along side him.
Shit. Yea you're right and he just so happened to be competing with one of the best sides of all time, but still he knew what Madrid were expecting when he took the job and that was a CL title since they haven't had one in a bit.
I'm not saying he's a terrible manager he did well with Madrid but he didn't deliver what he knew was expected.
The_Hitcher89
Member
1) Overthrow Barcelona
2) Win the Champions League
1) Temporary success, current failure
2) By past standards and expectations, complete failure
Failed stint with sporadic successes.
2) Win the Champions League
1) Temporary success, current failure
2) By past standards and expectations, complete failure
Failed stint with sporadic successes.
FootballFan
Member
Flop might be harsh, but you have to admit that if he leaves, he did not do as good as expected of him with the team he had.
And really, you make it sound worse than it is, one flop out of 5 teams is not bad at all and shouldn't change how people see him. Still one of the greatest coaches.
The_Hitcher89
Member
What happened to Coentrao btw? In the 2010 WC, he was a genuinenly exciting, intelligent fullback. Has he completely regressed, or was he playing beyond his normal ability in South Africa?
The expectation of bringing home a European Cup, yeah, that was the dream. After six successive second round exits, he got to the semi finals three times and went out in difficult circumstances. Not damp squib exits, and all against great teams.
He has an extraordinarily expensive side yes. But money's not everything in football and that's been proven time and time and time again.
The Spanish players hating him? Ramos doesn't seem to, Alonso doesn't seem to, Arbeloa doesn't seem to. Just Casillas really.
The press hate him for... I don't really know why. I think they were wrapped up in the Barcelona mythologising and because he wasn't saintly Pep they hated him. I genuinely think they've demonised him a tad.
'Destroying' the club's structure was for the best, definitely. It was part of why every manager was sacked there without getting a chance to bed in.
Of course he was brought in to win the European Cup. He hasn't. It's not great. But it's not a failure. If he can't do it, then who realistically can? Who is better than him? Sure, you might be able to fluke it like Chelsea did. Or you might come across one of those little pockets of time and football when you're at the peak of your history, like Barcelona in 2011 and Dortmund this year. But there's arguably no one better in the world than Mourinho. And I just don't think he's failed at all.
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