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[ironcreed]

The video posted previously just helps show how this integrated content that was cut to provide Day one DLC. I had previously Gamefly'd ME1 and ME2, but I decided with the final game in the trilogy that I would purchase this game new. This is what I was suppose to do right?

All of the poor publisher and starving developer defenders like the casters from Gamers with Jobs and just about ever other sell out podcast producer tells me to buy new if I want all the content. It is my fault as a renter or a used buyer if I don't get all the content. Fine.. I play by the rules and still don't get all the content. Don't feed me that line of crap that it was separate this was clearly integrated content that was cut out on purpose to raise the price point. I don't see how anyone who believes that shit has ever had a real adult job out the in the corporate world. The shit some of us have seen to fuck the consumer.. please.

Now I find myself looking at some obviously cut DLC which sole purpose was to basically raise the price of the game to 70.00 if I want the full experience. From the posters here it does seem to impact the experience a great deal. I guess its back to Gamefly or used for me if it has EA on it.

We have Catwoman, Kingdoms and now this. How much further is this bullshit going to go? Want to join the mage guild at Winterhold? Deposit 10.00.

What is ironic for me is that I went from buying, to Gameflying it after this debacle started. Then I figured it would take awhile to get it from Gamefly, so was planning on just going ahead and buying it off PSN.

Then what do you know, by chance Gamefly actually sent me a first batch copy out on Monday. I have to say that I am really enjoying the game, but am glad it worked out this way.

 

[KarmaCow]

So is all the content on the disc? The Katsumi DLC in ME2 was partially on the disc. Either way, making a character like that paid 'DLC' for ME3 is a basically just a fan tax. Dick move.

 

[Veezy]

Just wow. Not already part of the game my ass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8

So.... what's the current defense for argument against this?

 

[LuchaShaq]

So.... what's the current defense for argument against this?

Don't like the practice stop supporting companies that participate in it. It's the only way. If internet bitching ever got anything done bioware would have set themselves on fire by now from all the hate given to them both warranted and unwarranted+over the line of decency.


I had a much bigger issue with the catwoman online pass/dlc because they advertised it as a big part of the game than last second it's the new game pass and then even after dozens of emails my friend never got a working code despite buying it new.

 

[poisonelf]

Unlike other similar cases, this one is quite clear cut. The content was on disc and part of the original game, it was released on the same day as the game, meaning that, well, it was part of the game just being released, and it was not some horse armor, but an important part of the story and the party.

It's ridiculous and a disgusting cash grab. As long as they consider the gain from such practices to be more than potential losses, they'll keep on doing that shit.

I won't be buying this game before it hits 10 euros or less on steam.

 

[michaelius]

Bioware was always a master of shitty $10 1,5 hour DLCs so no suprises here.

Personally I removed them from my short list of companies for whom I have absolute trust after ME2 and haven't bough DA2 till this day. ME3 will be waiting for bargain bin.

 

[eattomorro]

I hope DLC brings the industry down in the future. Too many gaming companies think they can nickle and dime us to make an extra buck and kill all the goodwill in the industry.

Its like them taking out a chapter in the middle of the book and making it an exta novella you have to buy seperate.

Screw them.

 

[Binabik15]

They'll continue doing it (and pushing even further) as long as people still buy it.

AND actively defend that practice online. Mind boggling.

I buy games new, but normally not day one. I won't buy used and shaft the devs (indirectly) to save a bit, but I will wait until bomba pricing and get it from the UK/Steam if there's BS online pass or DLC drama. Only a few games are worth it day one.

 

[i-Lo]

Woah, I didn't know that the it (the character at least) was already on the disc. So what's the relevance of Mr. Hudson saying that it wasn't developed alongside the main game when it shipped in the same package?

They had an ideal way to incentivize people to buy new copy of ME2. What happened for ME3 I wonder especially when they were betting the game was going to outsell ME2 (and it's on its way to do so)?

With regards to Bethesda or Beta Shed, I don't agree because they were releasing fixes for a broken game. And anyway it is beside the point.

I am not paying a dime for From Ashes DLC. I am certainly not the only to think this was a cheap move by Bioware.

EDIT: Oh and what the does mainstream media think about it when they aren't busy gushing over how awesome the main game is?

 

[behem0th x]

Just wow. Not already part of the game my ass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8

 

[Quicksilver4648]

I have a simple rule in my mind, if the downloadable content is 100% completed before the official launch of the actual game then it should be free. If the content isn't completed till after the primary launch of the game then I understand charging for it, though that doesn't mean I like it.

Imagine buying a new movie on the day it releases and just after you put the disk in your player and those annoying intro advertisements are playing you see an ad saying "Check out the great new extended ending with over ten minutes of extra footage in stores today!" I don't know about you but I am going to feel cheated. I just bought this movie day 1 and there is already content I am missing out. Collector's Editions can have behind the scenes footage, director's cuts, and etc. but if there is primary content missing then I will feel cheated.

 

[Htown]

Just wow. Not already part of the game my ass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8

I.... I'm actually speechless. Shameless, shameless bullshit.

EA is terrible for this, and Bioware is terrible for lying about it.

 

[Oracle Dragon]

Personally, I don't have a real problem with this.

I'm not understanding why (not just for ME but any game) "Its already on the disc" for some reason equates to "I should get it for free".

Why? If you don't think the DLC is worth it, don't get it. Since you get it with the collectors Ed, how else could it have not been ready on Day 1? And why would they spend resources making you download it when they can ship it on the disc?

 

[mescalineeyes]

The writer of the article will flip if he ever hears about Amnesiac.

 

[soldat7]

I hope DLC brings the industry down in the future. Too many gaming companies think they can nickle and dime us to make an extra buck and kill all the goodwill in the industry.

Its like them taking out a chapter in the middle of the book and making it an exta novella you have to buy seperate.

Screw them.

While I don't want the industry to go up in flames, I do agree with your sentiment. The cost of gaming is on the rise because people are supporting these ridiculous models with buckets of money. And at the end of the day, it's all about the money. Only if and when consumers stop financing these models will real change happen. As someone who has been gaming for over two decades, I feel that the industry is leaving me behind.

 

[Gattsu25]

Personally, I don't have a real problem with this.

I'm not understanding why (not just for ME but any game) "Its already on the disc" for some reason equates to "I should get it for free".

You heard it here, folks

$60 = Free

 

[maus]

Mass Effect (and fighting games) have the unique distinction of having fairly modular content due to the interchangeable characters, so it's just a simple snip to partition off some content and offer it on top. From the business perspective, it's just another way to bolster revenue. Fancy restaurants nickel and dime you everywhere; do gaffer's have a stance on that practice? Gaming is such an industry now that it doesn't have to rely on keeping its community fully sated to reap massive profits. This is just what happens when your hobby becomes almost everyone's hobby.

 

[Htown]

Personally, I don't have a real problem with this.

I'm not understanding why (not just for ME but any game) "Its already on the disc" for some reason equates to "I should get it for free".

You're saying "get it for free" like it's a charity thing.

You just paid 60 dollars for the game.

 

[razgriz417]

Just wow. Not already part of the game my ass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8

Total Bullshit. They cant ban your account for making changes to the Coalesced bin can they? If not I'm making all my friends that just bought regular do this (got the collector's edition myself but feel like this DLC is essential to the lore)

 

[Oracle Dragon]

You heard it here, folks

$60 = Free

You're saying "get it for free" like it's a charity thing.

You just paid 60 dollars for the game.

Where did I say "$60 = free"? I said, if the DLC is done on Day 1, and they supply it on the disc so if you choose to purchase the additional content you actually are "buying" an unlock code, and not downloading something? Why is this such a frowned upon practice?

For $60 you got the game, did I miss part of the article and for $60 all you can do is go to the main menu and make your Sheps face, and then you have to start putting in extra money? From reviews I've seen for $60 you get a 20 to 30 hour game which is these days pretty good return for that price.

Why am I getting ripped off because I didn't get the Day 1 DLC for free because it was "on the disc"?

 

[FGMPR]

I don't see how anyone could say it wasn't supposed to be in the game if they actually played the game with the DLC character. They made him far too important to the story to be a nice little extra like Zaeed. He actually changes some main story scenes if you bring him along instead of just throwing out quick little comments during battle.

This comment has me fuming. Bioware are utterly shameless these days...

 

[ironcreed]

Total Bullshit. They cant ban your account for making changes to the Coalesced bin can they? If not I'm making all my friends that just bought regular do this (got the collector's edition myself but feel like this DLC is essential to the lore)

Pretty sure it is just the character, but not the Eden Prime mission. Regardless, it is concrete proof that the content was ready to go and should have just been part of the game.

 

[i-Lo]

I hope DLC brings the industry down in the future. Too many gaming companies think they can nickle and dime us to make an extra buck and kill all the goodwill in the industry.

Its like them taking out a chapter in the middle of the book and making it an exta novella you have to buy seperate.

Screw them.

While I don't want to see the ruin of a beloved industry, I certainly agree that this nickel and dime-ing is getting out of hand. It works best in a free to play (but not pay to win ) environment. Valve proved that with TF2.

They are really riding the goodwill train beyond the last stop for some. That said, there are still people who will pay for it when a little restraint of global community could force them to change their minds. But in a world where people crave instant gratification, waiting around to change something is not in their interest.

 

[RDreamer]

What exactly is the point of Day 1 DLC?

I mean, why not Day 31 DLC? Just ... wait a month. It would at least look better from a PR perspective.

They lose money and potential customers every day it's not out, especially for character DLC like this. If I'm going to get character DLC, I want it on day 1, so I can get the most bang for my buck. I want to be able to use that character throughout the game. On day 31 I'm done with the game. Even though I don't trade in games, I'm very unlikely to buy DLC, especially character DLC. That's the problem with FFXIII-2's DLC. A couple minute fight isn't really worth it, and having a new character in my party definitely isn't worth it, because I'm done with the fucking game.

So that means if they wait till day 31, we'll get even less content, because less people will be buying it. So you'll wait longer for less, and even possibly just not play it. What's the benefit there for anyone?

Pretty sure it is just the character, but not the Eden Prime mission. Regardless, it is concrete proof that the content was ready to go and should have just been part of the game.

Seriously, this argument makes no fucking sense. You are not entitled to everything that they produce at the same time. You can complain about the content in ME3, if that was subpar to you, and you can complain about whether the DLC is worth the 10 bucks, but you cannot complain about not getting it because it was produced at the same time.

 

[rybrad]

All that day one dlc and pre order dlc is the reason why i don`t buy games on day 1 anymore. I don`t like to get screwed over and usually wait for a 20-30$ price point if at all.

ME3 was the game that finally pushed me into this category. It has been my most anticipated game in a long time (besides D3) and it wasn't even difficult to avoid buying at launch. The only games I plan to pre-order now are if I want to support the dev which will be few and far between with the abhorrent practices publishers insist on.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

day 1 dlc is stuff that got cutfrom the final game, because the developer wants extra money. i wont ever support such nonsense and buy the games when they are cheap (in three months).

That's the risky part. There are enough games and things to do that I can wait for a few months and pick it up for $20-30 cheaper. It doesn't make me feel happy about gaming in general and I am picking up games on day 1 less and less.

 

[7Th]

Just wow. Not already part of the game my ass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8

Retweeted.

 

[Jacksonlee]

now to avoid this issue, EA is going to not put it on disk, but make us all download the whole thing and say that it's not part of the game, it was developed by a different team.

would that make it okay?

 

[DonasaurusRex]

people need to stop supporting this DLC crap some of it is cool...a lot of it is nickel and dime. Just save all that jazz for an expansion or if theres just going to be ...2 new guns, 4 new hats, 3 levels and a new pet...put that crap in patches for free and show some good will to people that support your product. All this.."hey look guys we used the character editor...that'll be 5.99 to try the new character out" is not the way. A lot of DLC i've tried has just left a bad taste in my mouth id gladly pay equal or near equal what i paid for the first game for an expansion that either expands or extends a game.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Personally, I don't have a real problem with this.

I'm not understanding why (not just for ME but any game) "Its already on the disc" for some reason equates to "I should get it for free".

LOL at "free". Let me help you understand. For decades now, buying a copy of a game meant you were buying access to all of the content on that disc. This shift to day one, on-disc DLC is a cynical exploitation of consumers. Now they are selectively locking away parts of the game you just purchased and using it to extort more money from those who care deeply enough about the game to want all the pieces. It's a sort of bait-and-switch, "Well, you just paid $60 for 90% of the game, are you really going to stop here and not pay to get the complete package if you've already gone this far?".

Why? If you don't think the DLC is worth it, don't get it. Since you get it with the collectors Ed, how else could it have not been ready on Day 1? And why would they spend resources making you download it when they can ship it on the disc?

If you paid $15 to go see a movie, and at one point they required another $5 to see a scene that would otherwise be hidden from you, it's not as simple as "If you don't like it, don't get it". You now have to choose two shitty options: bypass it and leave having paid $15 to see an incomplete movie, or get extorted for $5 more after walking into the theater under the natural assumption that you were done paying at $15. You seem like you'd think of the DLC as the overpriced food at the concession stand, which is dead wrong.

 

[charlequin]

Imagine if Legion was a day one DLC squadmate in ME2.

Honestly, if that meant you could recruit him right away and he had unique dialogue with people in all the other planets you visit, it probably would have made the game better.

because ME3 doesn't give you way more content for your $60 than other games?

Well, whether or not it does, the issue is really kind of the brazenness and customer disrespect involved in charging for the product the way they do. Deciding that this (the $10 day-one DLC release) is the best way to make use of the resources they dedicated to this content is essentially saying "we think it's more important to directly nickel-and-dime monetize our most dedicated fans than to build up reputational capital." It's a slash-and-burn approach to customer relations, which seems particularly foolish to me when ME is already a pretty big franchise and making people feel good about this stuff upfront might even translate directly into better overall DLC sales once the post-release expansion packs start to hit.

Like, let me put it this way. A friend who's a bit down on their luck? I'll grab their tab at dinner, I'll put gas in their car, I'll bring 'em lunch when I come over to see them and I won't feel bad about it. But if a friend who just got a snazzy new job and is driving a fancy new car goes out with us but tries to stiff on the tip? That person is a huge asshole. Right now, Bioware are being that asshole.

Fake-edit: I actually wrote this out and then remembered that Bioware did exactly what I'm talking about -- gave away free DLC to make their most dedicated fans feel better about their purchase -- with ME2! And their DLC strategy on that game was broadly well received!

I just can't buy the whole 'we added extra manpower/time/hired' when the whole goal is to have a big a return on investment as possible.

In their very slight defense, it's not like they hire extra people for this stuff; they take people whose work on the main game is mostly done (because they contribute during the earlier stages of production) and put them to work on DLC. There's usually some amount of poor resource utilization in this transitional state for people, so you might as well have them start working on DLC of some kind.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Well, whether or not it does, the issue is really kind of the brazenness and customer disrespect involved in charging for the product the way they do. Deciding that this (the $10 day-one DLC release) is the best way to make use of the resources they dedicated to this content is essentially saying "we think it's more important to directly nickel-and-dime monetize our most dedicated fans than to build up reputational capital." It's a slash-and-burn approach to customer relations, which seems particularly foolish to me when ME is already a pretty big franchise and making people feel good about this stuff upfront might even translate directly into better overall DLC sales once the post-release expansion packs start to hit.

Like, let me put it this way. A friend who's a bit down on their luck? I'll grab their tab at dinner, I'll put gas in their car, I'll bring 'em lunch when I come over to see them and I won't feel bad about it. But if a friend who just got a snazzy new job and is driving a fancy new car goes out with us but tries to stiff on the tip? That person is a huge asshole. Right now, Bioware are being that asshole.

Honestly, the people in this thread, who can't comprehend that Bioware owes EVERYTHING to it's fans and is treating them like dairy cows instead of treating them with respect, are bizarre. I feel like I'm talking to a child when they act as if "You don't have to buy it!" is an actual argument. OF COURSE we don't have to buy it! And we're going discuss exactly why we aren't going to buy it and how offensive the proposition is to begin with. If McDonalds starts charging an extra 30 cents if you want salt on your fries tomorrow, who isn't going to think that's shitty, even though the extra charge is optional? Morons!

 

[Grymm]

Total Bullshit. They cant ban your account for making changes to the Coalesced bin can they? If not I'm making all my friends that just bought regular do this (got the collector's edition myself but feel like this DLC is essential to the lore)

Apparently they can and -supposedly- have according to people on their forums. Who can tell if people are lying about stuff on forums, but it sounds legit.

Reason being is that since they decided to add a multiplayer component they made the same stupid decision the Crysis 2 devs did (common thread being EA) that had single player and multiplayer tweaks all available to edit in the same file. So Crysis 2 hackers just modded stuff in that file and it effected multiplayer, ME3 players can edit coalesced.ini and modify multiplayer stuff like credits earned and whatnot.

The people supposedly banned were playing multiplayer with a person who had modded their coalesced.ini and was hosting the match at the end of which they all received millions of credits or unlocks or something and so EAWare banned them. That's how the story goes at least.

 

[Hellsing321]

The people supposedly banned were playing multiplayer with a person who had modded their coalesced.ini and was hosting the match at the end of which they all received millions of credits or unlocks or something and so EAWare banned them. That's how the story goes at least.

Well I'm never touching multiplayer on PC then. It'd be great to be locked out all my games on Origin just because I joined a game with a jagoff who edited his .ini file.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

Just so I'm clear.... Bioware/EA does it, it's bad. Capcom does it, it's good. This is what GAF has taught me over the past couple of weeks. Someone should let the Forbes person know about Capcom's SF X T antics to see if its worth discussing...if are fighting games not worth the discussion and its assumed the FGC are suckers anyway.

There was plenty of bitching about that.

Shameful to see so much people defending them. Hopefully they'll change when they see the ending

 

[ironcreed]

The same guy at Forbes just chimed in on the new video showing the character on the disk as well.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...ws-mass-effect-3-day-one-dlc-already-on-disc/

 

[Kintaro]

There was plenty of bitching about that.

Plenty of bitching, but way more defending than against Bioware/EA.

 

[- J - D -]

Is the entire From Ashes DLC in the original code or just the character?

 

[LaserBuddha]

Plenty of bitching, but way more defending than against Bioware/EA.

Well, from my point of view at least, Capcom's DLC stuff was a dark spot on an otherwise great recent upswing in the quality of games they've been putting out, starting with SFIV. Bioware, on the other hand, seems to facing a sharp decline in quality with games like DAII and (imo) SWTOR. I was also dissapointed with aspects of DA:O and ME2.

It's probably not fair given that Capcom still puts out total stinkers here and there, but at the end of the day, the quality associated with the name Bioware has diminished quite a bit. I say this not having played ME3, but the point is that there is already a lot of pessimism from some of us about Bioware so the DLC thing came at a particularly bad time.

 

[Argyle]

Guys...I hate to break it to you...

But it's all your fault. This is what gamers want.

This is from the "Awesome Video Game Data" session at GDC this year where EEDAR (a market research firm) shares a bunch of data about trends in the gaming industry.

If it's coming out in the first month, it's going to be developed alongside the main game...

 

[Shrennin]

Just wow. Not already part of the game my ass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8

You know, if they had just been truthful and not lied about the DLC not already being apart of the game then I wouldn't have cared nearly as much. It's annoying that I have to pay for DLC that has a character so essential to the lore, but I can deal with that. It's when they blatantly lie about it to try to control the backlash from their choice regarding that particular DLC. Don't lie to your customers.

Is the entire From Ashes DLC in the original code or just the character?

Seems like it's just the character, but it's obvious that this character seems intended to be part of the core experience (as compared with the DLC characters from ME2). I, again, don't have much thought about this DLC in particular, beside the fact that it seems BioWare has lied about it.

 

[inky]

Just wow. Not already part of the game my ass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8

What a joke. Fuck them.

 

[Kintaro]

Guys...I hate to break it to you...

But it's all your fault. This is what gamers want.

This is from the "Awesome Video Game Data" session at GDC this year where EEDAR (a market research firm) shares a bunch of data about trends in the gaming industry.

If it's coming out in the first month, it's going to be developed alongside the main game...

Vomit. =/

I guess gamers like paying to play on the net too. =(

 

[DarkKyo]

I want the new squad member so badly, but I am not shelling out more money for this. It's a bunch of horse shit.

 

[Zzoram]

I chose not to buy this game despite beating ME1 three times and ME2 twice because I'm getting tired of DLC in RPGs making me feel like I'm missing part of the game. I refuse to ever buy DLC.

Maybe I'll get the game in a two years as a GOTY for $20.

 

[RDreamer]

Guys...I hate to break it to you...

But it's all your fault. This is what gamers want.

This is from the "Awesome Video Game Data" session at GDC this year where EEDAR (a market research firm) shares a bunch of data about trends in the gaming industry.



If it's coming out in the first month, it's going to be developed alongside the main game...

Damn right it's what I want. If I'm going to be given a character DLC, then I want it day 1 so I can use it to its fullest. There's less chance I'll purchase it after 2 weeks, and probably no chance I'll purchase it a month after, because I'm done with the game by then. A month and after means that DLC had better be post game content, because I'm finished with the story and the game.

I'm not purchasing a lot of FFXIII-2's DLC, because it's just a fight and some characters for your party. What good are characters for my party if I'm done with the game by then?

The longer they wait with this DLC stuff, the less people will buy it, which means they have to put less content in the DLC.

 

[Blast Processing]

Bioware has plausible deniability. I doubt they are lying about the DLC not being apart of the "main" game. That doesn't really excuse their behavior. The DLC content has probably been in development as long as the "main" game. The only difference is that it was carved out as DLC early in the process.

They're not removing anything from the main game because day one DLC is part of AAA game development. The argument is then that this content wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the DLC model making it possible; again probably not entirely false but also not a very satisfying answer.

edit: BTW, I put my money where my mouth is and didn't buy the stupid game. How many of the other haters can say the same? The only way publishers will learn to stop doing this nonsense is if the games that feature it fail.

I can say that. Fuck EA and Bioware.

 

[dalin80]

Bioware really have been going full bore in trying to piss what's left of their fan base off over the past year or so haven't they.

Every statement from them since EA involvement has started with 'we are not trying to screw you all over' in the same way a racist always starts with 'now, iam no racist' before making the stupid statement.

 

[KingJ2002]

fans are definitely getting screwed over here..

it's one thing to have a road map and plan to release DLC from day one.... it's another to cut out pieces of the game to sell back to the consumer.

i believe next gen were going to see a huge lawsuit with this anti-consumerism... especially if game consoles go the way of Digital Downloads.

 

[pakkit]

EA and Bioware know they hold the power when it comes to consumerism. They have an excellent trilogy on their hands, and they've extended their practice of including canon, story-advancing DLC in already full-priced games. The intro to ME3 is a clusterfuck without the context brought about by Arrival, and, to a lesser extent, Shadow Broker. This is simply an extension of that logic by taking basically necessary content and packaging it as day one DLC.