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Formula 1 2016 Season |OT| This thread is unavailable due to a copyright claim by FOM

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A

Aiii

So not worth it
Randomly watching the 2005 Season Review, that season was such a clusterfuck.

First there was BAR-Honda, getting excluded for two races after being found out for cheating by running their car under the weight limit due to a double gas-tank that added another 15 liter of gas in weight at the end of the sessions.

There was Red Bull driving Klein and Liuzzi swapping seats for a couple of races because Toro Rosso didn't exists until 2006.

Montoya breaking his hand in a tennis incident and being replaced with De La Rosa was a lol moment.

And then there was the US Grand Prix Michelin debacle, of course, which is just lol.

And Heidfeld crashed heavily during a test, got a headache (I'm assuming a concussion), dropped out of the Italy GP and then got into a motorcycle accident and missed the rest of the season.
 
xrnzaaas

xrnzaaas

Member
Aiii said:
Randomly watching the 2005 Season Review, that season was such a clusterfuck.

First there was BAR-Honda, getting excluded for two races after being found out for cheating by running their car under the weight limit due to a double gas-tank that added another 15 liter of gas in weight at the end of the sessions.

There was Red Bull driving Klein and Liuzzi swapping seats for a couple of races because Toro Rosso didn't exists until 2006.

Montoya breaking his hand in a tennis incident and being replaced with De La Rosa was a lol moment.

And then there was the US Grand Prix Michelin debacle, of course, which is just lol.

And Heidfeld crashed heavily during a test, got a headache (I'm assuming a concussion), dropped out of the Italy GP and then got into a motorcycle accident and missed the rest of the season.
Click to expand...

And Kimi finished second in the championship way ahead of Micheal and the rest of the pack. :)
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Aiii said:
Randomly watching the 2005 Season Review, that season was such a clusterfuck.

First there was BAR-Honda, getting excluded for two races after being found out for cheating by running their car under the weight limit due to a double gas-tank that added another 15 liter of gas in weight at the end of the sessions.

There was Red Bull driving Klein and Liuzzi swapping seats for a couple of races because Toro Rosso didn't exists until 2006.

Montoya breaking his hand in a tennis incident and being replaced with De La Rosa was a lol moment.

And then there was the US Grand Prix Michelin debacle, of course, which is just lol.

And Heidfeld crashed heavily during a test, got a headache (I'm assuming a concussion), dropped out of the Italy GP and then got into a motorcycle accident and missed the rest of the season.
Click to expand...

Haha, forgot about a lot of that stuff. That US GP was something else.
 
M

McNum

Member
A heavy rain Monaco race? I see safety cars, maybe red flags in our future.

Actually, with the tunnel, Monaco is going to be really evil if wet. If most of that requires Full-Wets to not hit the walls, but the tunnel is dry, what do you do?
 
Z

Zaru

Member
McNum said:
A heavy rain Monaco race? I see safety cars, maybe red flags in our future.

Actually, with the tunnel, Monaco is going to be really evil if wet. If most of that requires Full-Wets to not hit the walls, but the tunnel is dry, what do you do?
Click to expand...

Well...

HfjYvFp.png


That one historical anomaly aside, the tyres will carry a lot of water into the tunnel so it's not THAT terrible. Either way, they'll hit the wettest patches of the track on purpose to cool the tyres.
 
M

McNum

Member
Huh, didn't consider actually hosing down the tunnel. Or they could just install sprinklers in there, I suppose. I mean, it's Monaco and it's F1. There is no such thing as excessively silly here.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Judging by the ad hominem you are conceding to his point after watching such highlights like Canada 2000, Malaysia 2001, or Brazil 1996, then?
 
Business

Business

Member
I was just poking fun at two Dutch guys claiming Jos Verstappen is the best F1 driver ever in wet conditions. Sorry if I offended anybody, if you say your opinions are unbiased and void of any national pride, I believe it.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
You didn't offend anyone with your original post, you just failed to make an actual argument for the claim you made.

If you are going to disagree and even go one further and say Jos was "nothing special" in the rain, then provide actual proof for your argument Instead of being an ass by responding with ad hominems and sarcasm. That's just poor form.
 
K

KillerMan91

Member
Aiii said:
Randomly watching the 2005 Season Review, that season was such a clusterfuck.

First there was BAR-Honda, getting excluded for two races after being found out for cheating by running their car under the weight limit due to a double gas-tank that added another 15 liter of gas in weight at the end of the sessions.

There was Red Bull driving Klein and Liuzzi swapping seats for a couple of races because Toro Rosso didn't exists until 2006.

Montoya breaking his hand in a tennis incident and being replaced with De La Rosa was a lol moment.

And then there was the US Grand Prix Michelin debacle, of course, which is just lol.

And Heidfeld crashed heavily during a test, got a headache (I'm assuming a concussion), dropped out of the Italy GP and then got into a motorcycle accident and missed the rest of the season.
Click to expand...

Watching old seasons makes me wonder how insanely reliable the cars are nowadays. I mean Kimi lost championship back in 2005 only because his car broke down in so many races.
 
M

Megasoum

Banned
Aiii said:
Randomly watching the 2005 Season Review, that season was such a clusterfuck.

First there was BAR-Honda, getting excluded for two races after being found out for cheating by running their car under the weight limit due to a double gas-tank that added another 15 liter of gas in weight at the end of the sessions.

There was Red Bull driving Klein and Liuzzi swapping seats for a couple of races because Toro Rosso didn't exists until 2006.

Montoya breaking his hand in a tennis incident and being replaced with De La Rosa was a lol moment.

And then there was the US Grand Prix Michelin debacle, of course, which is just lol.

And Heidfeld crashed heavily during a test, got a headache (I'm assuming a concussion), dropped out of the Italy GP and then got into a motorcycle accident and missed the rest of the season.
Click to expand...

Where can those reviews be seen? I'm seeing some videos on youtube but they are all 3min things... I assume there are longer videos available somewhere?
 
M

Megasoum

Banned
Wax Free Vanilla said:
Season reviews are on Dailymotion:

1969-1979

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x3q4ev_podcastbwl_gp-season-reviews-1969-1979

1980-1999

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x3q4j1_podcastbwl_gp-season-reviews-1980-1999

2000-2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x3qh8o_podcastbwl_gp-season-reviews-2000-2013





Is everybody ready for a McLaren Honda 1-2 finish?

yeahi3s4e.gif
Click to expand...




Ohhhh Nice thanks!


Edit: Oh man, so many memories watching the 2005 seasons... The black West McLarens, the Toyotas, the green/blue Saubers...


Edit2: Now that I think about it... I think I went to the Canadian GP in 2005. I remember that Sato's BAR downshifting to go into the hairpin (I was on the right-left turn before the hairpin in Montreal) would actually hit you like a punch in the chest... Amazing stuff.

Edit3: Guys.... You remember when team used to bring a whole new car 3-4 races into a season? Forget about upgrades and token... Whole fucking new car...
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Yearly Monaco benefit footy match was yesterday.

13227218_605444202945899_4336881022931930635_n.jpg

Fernando is going for it... during the warm-up. I guess he's keen on winning something, finally. (final score 3-1 for the drivers, with Alonso scoring twice)

13240121_605444249612561_3609420968390057070_n.jpg

Massa taking no prisoners, it's a benefit Massa, relax!

13254259_605444086279244_4436125632905074113_n.jpg

Some Dutch media are already comparing Max's win with winning the EC '88 and Johan Cruijf. I wish I was joking. It didn't help that he won the race in 1.41.40 (14, 14) getting p1 from p4, 14 being Cruijf's number. Because some people are like that.

574543ae81731bd82e488e2ac9df855dd2e25ae139c1f.jpg

Reports of the supposed Toro Rosso blood feud between Carlos and Max's side of the garage continue to hold. All that seething rage behind those smiles, you can just taste the hate.
 
Z

Zaru

Member
Tempy said:
I should work out.
Click to expand...

That reminds me of what Hamilton said in that recent interview when asked about his fitness. Weight can be a serious issue for F1 drivers since it directly influences lap times.Which is why there are so few tall drivers and they can't get too muscular.

I'm half joking, but maybe that's why Vettel seems slower now, he gained 6 kg between 2013 and 2015 if those lists I've found are correct.
 
S

Septimius

Junior Member
Zaru said:
That reminds me of what Hamilton said in that recent interview when asked about his fitness. Weight can be a serious issue for F1 drivers since it directly influences lap times.Which is why there are so few tall drivers and they can't get too muscular.

I'm half joking, but maybe that's why Vettel seems slower now, he gained 6 kg between 2013 and 2015 if those lists I've found are correct.
Click to expand...

With minimum weight requirements of car and driver, the difference between light and heavy drivers is that with lighter drivers, the team has more ballast they can move around to make the car's weight distribution optimal. It means that Vettel's car doesn't weight 6 kg more than it did in 2013, but rather that he might've lost some flexibility in terms of moving around weight. This might have an impact on his lap times, but I mean, Jenson Button lost a ton of weight over a summer when his team started using KERS so they had more weight to move around. These drivers are likely the exact weight they should be, so Vettel gaining weight might be a recovery after the entire field weighing too little back when KERS was new, as the weight requirements have been tweaked since.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
You pretty much need to have a the body of a triathlete. You're definitely not going to look muscly with it... well, except for your neck. :D
 
Z

Zaru

Member
Septimius said:
With minimum weight requirements of car and driver, the difference between light and heavy drivers is that with lighter drivers, the team has more ballast they can move around to make the car's weight distribution optimal. It means that Vettel's car doesn't weight 6 kg more than it did in 2013, but rather that he might've lost some flexibility in terms of moving around weight. This might have an impact on his lap times, but I mean, Jenson Button lost a ton of weight over a summer when his team started using KERS so they had more weight to move around. These drivers are likely the exact weight they should be, so Vettel gaining weight might be a recovery after the entire field weighing too little back when KERS was new, as the weight requirements have been tweaked since.
Click to expand...

But most drivers lost weight or stayed the same in that timespan.
Though, Vettel seems to have been unusually thin compared to the others around his height for some reason.
 
Business

Business

Member
Aiii said:
You didn't offend anyone with your original post, you just failed to make an actual argument for the claim you made.

If you are going to disagree and even go one further and say Jos was "nothing special" in the rain, then provide actual proof for your argument Instead of being an ass by responding with ad hominems and sarcasm. That's just poor form.
Click to expand...

Easy man, it is you and not me making the extraordinary claims. You accuse me of failing to provide an argument yet all you managed to do is post the names of 3 GP's you can watch highlights on youtube?. What can you say about these performances other than let me find out he got a decent result in an average car?, do you know if he was benefitted by strategy or not? by the time the rain came? by having set up the car for the rain in a gamble before the race? by crashes or mechanical failures? And how does it compare and why is he better than to the likes of Alesi, Ascari, Button, Senna, Clark, Vettel... What metric are you using to say he is better than the rest?

Because I do remember Verstappen not being the best ever at anything but can't recall the specifics after 15 years, here's a report on the Arrows performance for Canada 2000 if you are interested. http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr654.html

The other man who made a huge gain from the rain was Verstappen. It was clear early on that both men were running with very light fuel loads. The cynics said that there was no tactical value in such a strategy and that it was about getting the cars on television, but Tom Walkinshaw had an explanation.

"We knew it was going to rain," he said, "so we ran a higher downforce than normal and we split the cars with different strategies in the hope that one of them would catch the weather window."

As all their rivals were running with heavy fuel loads the two Arrows men looked very good as de la Rosa overtook Zonta and Trulli at the start and then got past Frentzen on the second lap. He then tagged along with the Villeneuve gang until lap 20 when he pitted and dropped right back to 13th. He made little progress and was only 11th when he had to stop again, which dropped him to 15th. He went off, which did not help, and then had to pit again for wet tires, and by the time all that was done he was 13th. He started charging back and overtook Pedro Diniz on lap 47 but next time round he was pushed off very rudely by Diniz. "I was next to him and he pushed me onto the grass," explained Pedro later. "I think it was a very dangerous move from him."

Verstappen's strategy worked out better. He too made an impact in the early laps, jumping ahead of Herbert and Ralf Schumacher at the start and then passing Fisichella. He then held station until lap 24 when he went off while battling with Coulthard and so pitted immediately, dropping from eighth to 19th despite a very fast stop. Things did not look great. By lap 44 he was running 11th (thanks entirely to the departure of others rather than overtaking manoeuvres). At his stop, however, he was able to take on fuel and wet tires and as everyone apart from the Benettons stopped again Jos found himself in eighth place despite another quick off along the way. Villeneuve did him a favor by stalling during his pit stop and losing six seconds and then losing another five seconds on the next lap by going off, and so Jos was seventh and ahead was Wurz. When these two run together on a race track there is a certain edge to the contest as both always seem to be on the verge of an accident. The war raged between them for 11 laps with one point at which they both went off without hitting one another and another when they made contact and Jos got ahead. He then blasted ahead of Trulli to take fifth and, having done that, had nothing else to do because Hakkinen was so far ahead on the road. It was a great result for the team and evidence that a risky strategy can sometimes pay off.
Click to expand...
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
SpeedOfNuts said:
Easy man, it is you and not me making the extraordinary claims. You accuse me of failing to provide an argument yet all you managed to do is post the names of 3 GP's you can watch highlights on youtube?. What can you say about these performances other than let me find out he got a decent result in an average car?, do you know if he was benefitted by strategy or not? by the time the rain came? by having set up the car for the rain in a gamble before the race? by crashes or mechanical failures? And how does it compare and why is he better than to the likes of Alesi, Ascari, Button, Senna, Clark, Vettel... What metric are you using to say he is better than the rest?

Because I do remember Verstappen not being the best ever at anything but can't recall the specifics after 15 years, here's a report on the Arrows performance for Canada 2000 if you are interested. http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr654.html
Click to expand...

Even in your quote there are several overtakes, all achieved due to Verstappen being massively quicker than those around, you can point to strategy and in F1, that always matters, but you can't deny that Verstappen was quicker than most in the rain. Mind you, everyone knew it was going to rain that race and as such, it was not just Arrows running a rain set-up. Verstappen getting fifth despite the low fuel load (which as per your quote was not about getting fifth, but getting screen time at the start of the race). Lower fuel load are for the benefit of starting higher up on the grid, but don't actually help your race in the long run since you lose way more pitting at the start of a race then further along. Despite all that, he still managed to catch up and overtake many cars, just by being quicker then them.

And that is where Verstappen excelled in the rain, raw speed, unfortunately it's proving very difficult to find detailed lap-times from old races, despite my considerable Google skills, one would think such a database would exist, but oh well. Trying to not be too anecdotal, pointing to Brazil 1996, these highlights show Verstappen setting fast lap after fast lap, much quicker than even Hill at the front (who was no slouch in the rain).

The Malaysian 2001 GP is another example of how fast Jos was compared to others in the rain. If you stick around until the end of the video you'll see a nice quote by Schumi saying how much quicker they were on Intermediates, and yet still Jos was quicker on rain tires than even he was.

Another example of said quickness was Argentina 1995, where he qualified the Simtek on a stellar 14th under wet conditions, despite being held up and Nick Wirth informing us he could have probably gone two seconds quicker.

Jos wasn't the best driver in the world, never was, but there's two things the guy excelled at: Speed under wet conditions and he was a good starter, often winning several places before the first corner.
 
T

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
@RenaultSportF1
Heard in the press conf.: 'it's a bit like asking a rabbit how his first date went. Good but did not last long..'
➡️ Seb on ultra soft tyres
Click to expand...

.
 
Business

Business

Member
Aiii said:
Even in your quote there are several overtakes, all achieved due to Verstappen being massively quicker than those around, you can point to strategy and in F1, that always matters, but you can't deny that Verstappen was quicker than most in the rain.
Click to expand...

I don't have to deny he was quicker that day, but I can point out how Arrows gambled in their strategy and that allowed both Verstappen and De La Rosa to benefit from it more than others. It matter's isn't it. We can go around it as much as you like but what you try to present as one of the prime examples of the best talent ever in F1 in the rain seems to me it was mainly due to a strategic gamble that paid off. To each their own I guess.
 
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