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[nature boy]

? Irvine got a 2-race ban for this.

One race, appealed and got a 3 race ban.

My point is Jos was also aggressive and fucked up his braking. Which shows how dangerous what happened yesterday and to a lesser extent in Hungary.

T1 was a risky move and he payed the price. Racing incident.

What I don't get though, is why there hasn't been a single warning or penalty given for those actions.

Would that really be due to ''Heineken'' and 'Max = future of F1''? cause I find that hard to believe.

Superstar favoritism isn't something new.

 

[ElTorro]

Even better, have the GPDA/Drivers appoint them. There's a rulebook and if the GPDA appoints the stewards (which would then most likely by some older impartial drivers, like Wurz himself), there should be way less issues with unfair or inconsistent penalties.

That would be a good solution. Drivers should decide for themselves how much risk they are willing to take. In general and on a track-by-track basis. If they want to allow themselves to defend at the latest possible moment in high-speed situations, let them have it. But if they think it's to dangerous, punish such behavior consistently.

As a spectator, drama and action is always fun, but it should not come at a risk that the drivers agree is too high.

 

[DD]

Toto has opinions about Max too, and Horner is not amused.

 

[Mohonky]

Verstappen is just fucking dangerous with his on track 'defensive' moves. We've seen plenty of young drivers drive recklessly before; they're new and have a point to prove, they don't know when to attack and when to hold off, they don't know how to play the long game etc but that shit he's pulling it way beyond the standard 'no fear' antics of a lot of young drivers, had Raikkonen not stepped off the pair of them would have been going for a 300km/h + trip into the barriers and more than likely, if one had got any amount of lift, it would have been an airborne one.

It's one thing for the younger driver to barge into the side of other cars, out brake themselves and just do generally stupid stuff that ends peoples races but Verstappen is going to cause an almighty high speed incident at some point.

Hopefully he doesn't hurt anyone else in the process but he's really pushing his luck; currently with the FIA not even reprimanding him for it, it's probably going to take such an incident for him to realise how stupid it is. If it does happen and he still does it, well....I wouldn't be surprised if a driver has a face to face confrontation with him about it.


The first corner is a racing incident, he should get over it. His comments about the incident and those about the incidents later speak volumes of how immature and potentially dangerous he is.

 

[andshrew]

What's interesting though is that Verstappen held off Kimi for a large part of the spanish GP without resulting in complaints about dangerous defending. Did his first win make him more aggressive?

I don't remember Kimi ever being in a position such that he was able to start making an over overtake on Verstappen half way down the straight in Spain; so he didn't really need to do any overly defensive driving.

 

[dalin80]

Toto has opinions about Max too, and Horner is not amused.

Yep, a prat running other cars off the track and creating the potential for a massive crash is nothing to do with someone who runs two of those cars.

 

[theignoramus]

And he said this to Dutch TV “I’d rather drive them off the track then let them go in front of me”

I don't understand how anyone can root for him.

Edit: At least there's some good news following this race:

Kid thinks its the 80s. Only if it were, hed have got punched in his face already. The whole paddock will hear of his brash quotes & you can bet some of them will have a mind to unleash a brutal chop if Max tries an overtake. The kid obviously needs to be taught a lesson.

 

[theignoramus]

Dat Jos genes:

https://twitter.com/lauraleslie23/status/770185406449086464

I remember his asshole father wrecking a race win for Montoya in Brazil, Jos just smashed into the back of him. I was impressed Juan Pablo didnt try to fight him afterword.

 

[AndyD]

No gap?

Erm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT3TWr1-AT4

If that isn't a gap, I think it's probably best if we stop calling F1 ''racing''.

Indeed. I am in the camp that says it was Kimi's fault. The other two were clearly side by side with him and he squeezed Vettel into Max.

 

[ramparter]

Indeed. I am in the camp that says it was Kimi's fault. The other two were clearly side by side with him and he squeezed Vettel into Max.

Kimi was inside, Vettel outside. You mean it was Vettwls fault.

 

[ramparter]

Yep, a prat running other cars off the track and creating the potential for a massive crash is nothing to do with someone who runs two of those cars.

I was gonna say.
Horner knows that if Max's behavior becomes a popular topic Fia may have to take action.

 

[DD]

I put that into Vettel's account. But it's undeniable that Verstappen put himself in that situation. He had a bad start and was trying to compensate. Sebastian was also forcing and could have left more room there.

 

[DD]

I was gonna say.
Horner knows that if Max's behavior becomes a popular topic Fia may have to take action.

Well, according to Toto, it is already a popular topic: "The FIA has not penalised it, the only thing that has happened is that he has been given a hard time in the drivers' briefings. Maybe next time, he will have a harder time."

 

[AndyD]

Kimi was inside, Vettel outside. You mean it was Vettwls fault.

No way? Did I miss that entirely? Then yes, Vettel squeezed Kimi into Max.

They were all three side by side and as far as I'm concerned they should have left room for each other to go around the corner. We're not talking a bit of wing by the back wheel but side by side.

 

[ElTorro]

Peter Windsor on Verstappen's move: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPtbWO3EbTs

 

[mrklaw]

I put that into Vettel's account. But it's undeniable that Verstappen put himself in that situation. He had a bad start and was trying to compensate. Sebastian was also forcing and could have left more room there.

It's the first lap. You often see people squeezing though on the very inside - you can see others doing the same on the replay

 

[DD]

It's the first lap. You often see people squeezing though on the very inside - you can see others doing the same on the replay

Yeah, sure, it's a racing incident in my point of view. I just think that Vettel is the main responsible for that, but Max was also trying to regain some ground after a poor start, so he forced himself up there, and Vettel probably didn't thought he would do that. But if there's someone to blame, it's Vettel, and if there's guiltless a victim, that's Raikkonen.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Peter Windsor on Verstappen's move: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPtbWO3EbTs

Good one. Funny though that this move isn't much different than the ones he pulled at the Canada GP to keep Rosberg behind. This one was more dangerous though.

 

[DD]

Max might feel interested in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ93D9cMqjU

 

[Doikor]

No way? Did I miss that entirely? Then yes, Vettel squeezed Kimi into Max.

They were all three side by side and as far as I'm concerned they should have left room for each other to go around the corner. We're not talking a bit of wing by the back wheel but side by side.

There was no way for Vettel to see Max. Basically it is a corner that fits 2 cars (at least with the lines Vettel and Kimi were taking) and Max just pushed in as the third on the inside. Vettel can't see Max trough Kimi and Kimi can't move without hitting Vettel. Thus the crash. Max was the last on charging in and thus the only one with any possibility to see all the other cars involved and thus have some effect on the result (to me it just looked like he was overcompensating for his bad start compared to Kimi and just "had" to do something in front of his home audience). In my mind that kinda makes it the fault of Max. But to me that is just a racing incident and nobody should be punished for it. The shit Max pulled on Kimi later on should be.

 

[spuckthew]

Max's driving will either make him a 4+ time WDC, or end his career very early.

I'm hoping for the former, because I love it. The most exciting driver since Lewis came onto the scene.

As much as I like Max and appreciate a persona like his being in the sport, Lewis had far greater natural race craft when he started. Max looks positively amateurish by comparison.

Time will tell I guess.

 

[Zaru]

Time will tell I guess.

He still has 3-something years to be as old/experienced as Lewis was in his first season.

 

[Chris R]

Pretty good race, but the highlight of the weekend for me was TCM playing Grand Prix (1966).

Seeing Old Spa and Monza being run was pretty damn cool.

 

[JadedWriter]

He still has 3-something years to be as old/experienced as Lewis was in his first season.

I guess it's a side effect of Hamilton going through the junior formulas instead of Max skipping. Funny enough I do believe McLaren forced Lewis to go through them and he wnated be skipped ahead a bit if I'm not mistaken. RBR just rushed Verstappen. Verstappen is like cookie dough if you've ever watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

 

[spuckthew]

He still has 3-something years to be as old/experienced as Lewis was in his first season.

Max is lucky that most of the driver's he's battling with are older and wise enough to avoid serious collisions (ish).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDkK8a4jHZ8

I'm sure everyone and their dog has seen this by now, but can you honestly tell me that Max could race like that based on what we've seen of him so far? FYI, Vettel was the same age as Max back then.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

Max is lucky that most of the driver's he's battling with are older and wise enough to avoid serious collisions (ish).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDkK8a4jHZ8

I'm sure everyone and their dog has seen this by now, but can you honestly tell me that Max could race like that based on what we've seen of him so far? FYI, Vettel was the same age as Max back then.

Never gets old. what a battle

As for Max and the new trend of promoting young drivers. I think there should be an age requirement for the super license. It's not just about pure talent here, it's responsibility, maturity, fairness, and respect that those drivers should promote through this sport as role models.

Just imagine Max had all these battles with Maldonado instead of Kimi or any other driver? He'd never have finished a race and none of them would be the fault of the other driver. Just because there was no serious consequences it doesn't mean that what he did was right

That being said, I still believe that Vettel takes the lion's share of the blame in turn one at Spa

EDIT: quick reminder of how aware Kimi of his surroundings and we all know he's fair to a fault. So I'd take his word if he says the other driver was wrong - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxQc59MX15M

 

[Terbinator]

Max is lucky that most of the driver's he's battling with are older and wise enough to avoid serious collisions (ish).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDkK8a4jHZ8

I'm sure everyone and their dog has seen this by now, but can you honestly tell me that Max could race like that based on what we've seen of him so far? FYI, Vettel was the same age as Max back then.

I'd never seen this footage before, incredible.

 

[tomtom94]

As for Max and the new trend of promoting young drivers. I think there should be an age requirement for the super license. It's not just about pure talent here, it's responsibility, maturity, fairness, and respect that those drivers should promote through this sport as role models.

There is one. They brought it in because of Max.

 

[Always-honest]

Max is lucky that most of the driver's he's battling with are older and wise enough to avoid serious collisions (ish).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDkK8a4jHZ8

I'm sure everyone and their dog has seen this by now, but can you honestly tell me that Max could race like that based on what we've seen of him so far? FYI, Vettel was the same age as Max back then.

Yes. He could. That's exactly why he is exciting. He's one of the biggest talents ever.
You'll see.

Great vid, by the way.

 

[Aiii]

Max is lucky that most of the driver's he's battling with are older and wise enough to avoid serious collisions (ish).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDkK8a4jHZ8

I'm sure everyone and their dog has seen this by now, but can you honestly tell me that Max could race like that based on what we've seen of him so far? FYI, Vettel was the same age as Max back then.

With DRS, battery charging, tire management/strategies and different chassis and engines? You can't post a video from a different class with a different set of circumstances and go "Well, Verstappen can't do this, can he?"

You can't compare either situation. If Kimi wasn't in a much faster car at the end of a DRS zone, he would never been gaining that fast and the whole thing wouldn't have been different by default.

 

[DD]

Two interesting articles about this debate.

Villeneuve: Verstappen getting "protection" from FIA

and

Two rule changes F1 could make to stop Verstappen’s ‘dangerous’ moves

After reading the F1 Fanactic article I was thinking: hey, maybe they shouldn't completely ban the DRS, but instead they could different levels of DRS for different teams. For example, Sauber and Manor could be allowed to open more the gap between the wings than Mercedes. Kind of like a more subtle ballast rule.

 

[Aiii]

Nothing Villeneuve says about Verstappen can be taken seriously. He has hated the Kid ever since he was born, it seems.

I like your idea on DRS, though I would rather see it removed all together. It is time to reverse the changes that are causing the cars to be difficult to overtake, like the tire rules, and the strict aero rules. Full reset to 2006 rules and take it from there. Budgets have not decreased since the early 00s at all, all this "cost reduction" nonsense is just that, nonsense, a failed experiment that removed a ton of excitement from the sport.

Brundle wrote a sensible analysis that doesn't have conspiracy theories: http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24...-verstappen-factor-and-more-track-controversy

 

[DD]

Nothing Villeneuve says about Verstappen can be taken seriously. He has hated the Kid ever since he was born, it seems.

I like your idea on DRS, though I would rather see it removed all together. It is time to reverse the changes that are causing the cars to be difficult to overtake, like the tire rules, and the strict aero rules. Full reset to 2006 rules and take it from there. Budgets have not decreased since the early 00s at all, all this "cost reduction" nonsense is just that, nonsense, a failed experiment that removed a ton of excitement from the sport.

I don't know, I don't think it's a matter of hate per se. It's just that people think that he's too immature to be there. Hell, even Kvyat is, in my opinion. We don't see young drivers like Magnussen, Nasr, Palmer or Ericsson doing the kind of stuff Max does on track. Or maybe I'm talking shit, cuz Grosjean was a GP2 driver and was driving like an idiot for a moment. And Guiterrez, currently. Even Lewis had a bad year in back 2011. But it seems a consensus that Max is floating above what should be acceptable, despite the fact that he's playing inside the rules most of the time. It's a weird situation...

 

[Aiii]

Heh, read anything Villeneuve has written and said about Max since they announced his debut, you will see what I mean.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

I don't know, I don't think it's a matter of hate per se. It's just that people think that he's too immature to be there. Hell, even Kvyat is, in my opinion. We don't see young drivers like Magnussen, Nasr, Palmer or Ericsson doing the kind of stuff Max does on track. Or maybe I'm talking shit, cuz Grosjean was a GP2 driver and was driving like an idiot for a moment. And Guiterrez, currently. Even Lewis had a bad year in back 2011. But it seems a consensus that Max is floating above what should be acceptable, despite the fact that he's playing inside the rules most of the time. It's a weird situation...

It's clear that those others drivers aren't as entitled or "in the system" as Max either.

You don't need Villeneuve to say it, Max is not being penalised for dangerous driving that has and will cause incidents.

There is a rule in the regs against sudden moves and moves "liable to hinder other drivers". It's vague enough that the stewards could easily apply it in this situation if they had any interest.

 

[RaySpencer]

Max is lucky that most of the driver's he's battling with are older and wise enough to avoid serious collisions (ish).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDkK8a4jHZ8

I'm sure everyone and their dog has seen this by now, but can you honestly tell me that Max could race like that based on what we've seen of him so far? FYI, Vettel was the same age as Max back then.

God I love this video. I watch it everytime someone brings it up. haha.

Its insane to think that in the 11 years since this, these 2 guys have 7 (maybe 8 soon) of the 10 (11) possible formula 1 championships. And neither were in F1 in 2006, so they couldnt have won that, and the 2 that neither won, one of them was in second place. They are like single digit points away from between the 2 of them being the champions in every single season they have competed in. Haha.

 

[Shaneus]

After reading the F1 Fanactic article I was thinking: hey, maybe they shouldn't completely ban the DRS, but instead they could different levels of DRS for different teams. For example, Sauber and Manor could be allowed to open more the gap between the wings than Mercedes. Kind of like a more subtle ballast rule.

I haven't read that article yet, but rather than having a bigger gap in the wing, maybe allow for a bigger gap between cars for allowing DRS? So a lower-tier car (I dunno, judged by qualifying position?) can have, say, 1.7s gap to the car ahead to allow DRS, whereas an RBR can have 1s to allow DRS to be enabled.

 

[DD]

I haven't read that article yet, but rather than having a bigger gap in the wing, maybe allow for a bigger gap between cars for allowing DRS? So a lower-tier car (I dunno, judged by qualifying position?) can have, say, 1.7s gap to the car ahead to allow DRS, whereas an RBR can have 1s to allow DRS to be enabled.

No, no, that's not in the article. Is just an idea I had while reading it. :3

 

[Aiii]

https://twitter.com/The_Pamas/status/770704488562888704/video/1

Oh dear, I think it might be a thing you do to the Finnish.

 

[Psychotext]

Heading off to Monza tonight. Hopefully will be a better race for Ferrari than others have been lately.

Nothing more depressing than a depressed tifosi.

 

[brotkasten]

Heading off to Monza tonight. Hopefully will be a better race for Ferrari than others have been lately.

Nothing more depressing than a depressed tifosi.

If Vettel doesn't fuck up the start again, one of them might finish on the podium. He could also qualify higher up for a change, that would make things easier.

 

[Waldo Lydecker]

Max is just revolutionary: he is the first driver showing how to defend while having a DRS disadvantage. This is a new kind of racing and defending. Get used to it.

 

[Aiii]

Heading off to Monza tonight. Hopefully will be a better race for Ferrari than others have been lately.

Nothing more depressing than a depressed tifosi.

Monza should favor the red team over RBR, at least, so one of the two should manage the podium.

 

[Psychotext]

Max is just revolutionary: he is the first driver showing how to defend while having a DRS disadvantage. This is a new kind of racing and defending. Get used to it.

By out-braking himself to the point where the other driver has a choice between a crash or being forced off the track?

Well... revolutionary is one thing to call it.

 

[DrM]

I wonder if Force India will continue with their good pace in Monza

 

[Zaru]

I wonder if Force India will continue with their good pace in Monza

They'll most likely be in striking position if something goes wrong with RB or Ferrari (and I'm almost sure it will)

 

[spyshagg]

I dont usually comment subjective topics, but the field has to get smarter in order to overtake max legal maneuvers .


It stings like a sore wound when seeing overtakes in DRS F1 era. Everybody lets everybody pass like its inevitable. "you go right i'll go left".
Why no one stays in the middle and use your one legal move to block the lane your opponent chooses?


I do this all the time on Simracing.

 

[Waldo Lydecker]

I dont usually comment subjective topics, but the field has to get smarter in order to overtake max legal maneuvers .


It stings like a sore wound when seeing overtakes in DRS F1 era. Everybody lets everybody pass like its inevitable. "you go right i'll go left".
Why no one stays in the middle and use your one legal move to block the lane your opponent chooses?


I do this all the time on Simracing.

That's exactly what I mean. Max is revolutionary in that he is the first driver who really tries to defend himself in a DRS disadvantage. We will see more drivers do this in the future I think.

 

[spyshagg]

That's exactly what I mean. Max is revolutionary in that he is the first driver who really tries to defend himself in a DRS disadvantage. We will see more drivers do this in the future I think.

It's been done since the dawn of racing so I don't think he is revolutionary. I think there has been a status quo among F1 drivers that he shits on and rightly so.

The rules say you have one move, so the logical tactic is to stay in the middle and block after the opponent makes a move.


Yes everyone will start doing the same, its just baffling everyone stopped doing it in the first place years ago. After this maneuver comes back, there is another one that will make a return as well: pretend to go one side and go another. Rarely seen in todays spastic f1 overtakes.

 

[Frankfurter]

It's been done since the dawn of racing so I don't think he is revolutionary. I think there has been a status quo among F1 drivers that he shits on and rightly so.

The rules say you have one move, so the logical tactic is to stay in the middle and block after the opponent makes a move.


Yes everyone will start doing the same, its just baffling everyone stopped doing it in the first place years ago. After this maneuver comes back, there is another one that will make a return as well: pretend to go one side and go another. Rarely seen in todays spastic f1 overtakes.

We'll see lots and lots of really nasty crashes if this happens.