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Forza Motorsport 3 |OT|
- Thread starter Jube3
- Start date
Diablohead
Member
Dunno about forza 3 but one of the older games it was based on how well the CPU can drive the car, problem there is that the computer brakes in the wrong places or doesn't know tricks you can do with certain cars. As for grip, well when you use an AWD car in forza 3 you can use stock tyres and still carry enough speed out of corners without a problem, sometimes grip makes the awd car worse because of how sticky the wheels can get. For instance my lambo with stock tyres is faster then removing 1 engine part and using racing treads by about a second on most circuits.Pepto said:
I just wish a little more time was spent on checking or revising the PI system, for a game which has a lot of online features.
rjcc said:
Considering the input of che and others at turn 10 the only real way for them to be competitive would be if we had an extremely granular traction control system, where we could set it to different levels and tune the TCS system for every car. Even then we'd still be fried on launch due to a .5 to 1 second deficit just from the un-realistic clutch dumps of the AWD cars.
Launch needs to have more of an effect on PI than it currently does.
ShapeGSX said:
Unrealistic without breaking components periodically. Go sidestep the clutch in an AWD car and see how long your clutch/tranny/drivetrain lasts. Hell use the built in launch control system in the Nissan GT-R and see how quickly they yank your warranty and how long your $20k transmission lasts.
I'm not going to come out crying SIM SIM as a way to fix the issue but in real life, the weakest link in your drivetrain is going to explode unless it's fully built if you're launching your AWD car like that.
Diablohead
Member
I just had another crash in the lobby and realised what causes it, someone who quits out of the lobby when they are being voted for a kick. It's not happend all the time but on this occasion he quit, the music stopped and then my 360 froze up, maybe he was the host or he just powered off his 360 instead of quitting to the menu, dunno.
also fucking idiots who ram you because you pass them, why do I even bother to play this game.
also fucking idiots who ram you because you pass them, why do I even bother to play this game.
I have been thinking...
There are so many options for multiplayer - yet the public games don't expose these.
What would be nice, would be the ability to create a public game of your own - which could go in a 'custom' group in the hopper list.
Set up a track list, rules, etc, then fire it up. Once it's going, it acts just like a public game. Vote to kick, skip track, 1 minute intervals, etc. No one player has control. The big difference being the moment the game is empty, it's removed, the moment it's full, a duplicate is created.
I think a system like that would very quickly focus what people want to play - and allow for some very fun alternatives when you aren't feeling serious.
I had great fun with my mate and 6 AI driving Fujimi Kaido - with everyone in Dodge Daytonas :lol Absolute carnage
That way I bet you'd see lots of RWD only games, cat and mouse, etc. Basically things you don't see now.
There are so many options for multiplayer - yet the public games don't expose these.
What would be nice, would be the ability to create a public game of your own - which could go in a 'custom' group in the hopper list.
Set up a track list, rules, etc, then fire it up. Once it's going, it acts just like a public game. Vote to kick, skip track, 1 minute intervals, etc. No one player has control. The big difference being the moment the game is empty, it's removed, the moment it's full, a duplicate is created.
I think a system like that would very quickly focus what people want to play - and allow for some very fun alternatives when you aren't feeling serious.
I had great fun with my mate and 6 AI driving Fujimi Kaido - with everyone in Dodge Daytonas :lol Absolute carnage
That way I bet you'd see lots of RWD only games, cat and mouse, etc. Basically things you don't see now.
Valkyr Junkie
Member
Yoritomo said:
InbeforeShapeGSXschoolsyouwithpicsofcarshesworkedon.
In an AWD car with a standard manual transmission the clutch is going to take most shock from launching, and it is a part you accept is not going to last forever just like many other components in a car that is raced. With the GT-R example, that is a car that does not have a standard manual transmission, and the launch control system doesn't work like slipping the clutch to launch in a more standard manual transmission'd car.
Diablohead
Member
Since my 360 crash I can't join any lobbys without my 360 hard-locking up, it will find a room and join it but then the music stops and game locks, I rebooted twice now but i'll try some other things. I really don't want to delete my save :/
Yoritomo said:
Valkyr: :lol
I drag raced and autocrossed my ~400hp Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX for 10 years (11.8@118mph was my best). I launched the sucker at 4500 to 5500RPM every single run. I never broke a single drive line component while launching. Now, you do have to launch it right, though. You need to slip the clutch out very quickly, not side-step it.
You do tend to burn through clutches a bit more quickly, but they still lasted 2 to 3 years worth of drag racing and daily driving.
And there are upgraded transmission options for my car, like dog boxes with straight cut gears, that will make it able to withstand just about anything. They are around $5000 which is more than I would want to spend on my car. A friend of mine has one, though.
I have no problem buying the top transmission option in Forza, though.
And it whines just like a straight cut dog box does.ShapeGSX said:Valkyr: :lol
I drag raced and autocrossed my ~400hp Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX for 10 years (11.8@118mph was my best). I launched the sucker at 4500 to 5500RPM every single run. I never broke a single drive line component while launching. Now, you do have to launch it right, though. You need to slip the clutch out very quickly, not side-step it.
You do tend to burn through clutches a bit more quickly, but they still lasted 2 to 3 years worth of drag racing and daily driving.
And there are upgraded transmission options for my car, like dog boxes with straight cut gears, that will make it able to withstand just about anything. They are around $5000 which is more than I would want to spend on my car. A friend of mine has one, though.
I have no problem buying the top transmission option in Forza, though.
Yet in forza, you pin the throttle so it barely reaches redline right as the race starts to launch an AWD then again I don't have my fanatec wheel/pedal setup yet). I'm not trying to make a critical argument that things should break, just that the much superior launch of an AWD, the ability to get on the throttle sooner, and the ability to use more of the traction available at any given time gives it an advantage over RWD that isn't reflected in the PI.
If it were truly a sim you'd be worried about crankwalk in an eclipse heh. Maybe all of my difficulties will go away once I have my wheel setup. I really just dislike racing AWD in the game, and get frustrated by the fact thatit's more difficult to win using RWD against even mediocre opponents who get the jump on you due to AWD in a short race. Having the highest lap time by a couple seconds isn't much reward for having eaten it because I can't jump out the starting line fast enough to avoid the opening idiocy of the first corner.
I'm done with my meltdown now... I'd like races that are at least twice as long in public hoppers.
Yoritomo said:
I don't think that the launch figures into the PI at all. How could it?
And yeah, you definitely can use more power earlier with an AWD. And you can be a bit more sloppy with the throttle without worrying about spinning out.
I built a 6-bolt 4G63T in my garage in the middle of January after I got crankwalk on my original 7-bolt. 2G pistons with 1G shot peened big rods and a 1G head. First time I ever built an engine, and it is still running, 75,000mi later!
Diablohead
Member
I forget what car I was playing with when this happend earlier but I had it tuned for A600 RWD, it was something like 3,200kg and when I checked out what happens when I added AWD to it, the PI dropped to A560 and the car lost 0.1 in speed, accel and also added about 100kg to the weight, that was about all it did :lol So I was able to tune it to go faster and turn just as well if not better because the PI is wrong.
Also there is a shortcut someone used in front of me on Suzuka at the last set of corners which imo should punish not reward, he turned straight after the barrier and cut the first part of the S bend completely without losing speed or grip, wtf. There are too many shortcuts on the circuits that turn10 should have stuck a bump or small tyre wall at, so stupid.
I was going to make a gif file but the wmv from the game is oddly not supported directly in animation shop 3, bizarre.
Also there is a shortcut someone used in front of me on Suzuka at the last set of corners which imo should punish not reward, he turned straight after the barrier and cut the first part of the S bend completely without losing speed or grip, wtf. There are too many shortcuts on the circuits that turn10 should have stuck a bump or small tyre wall at, so stupid.
I was going to make a gif file but the wmv from the game is oddly not supported directly in animation shop 3, bizarre.
FunnyBunny
Member
I'm sorry is this is answered elsewhere, but I did not see it... Do we know what the DLC model is?
Personally, I would like to see Turn 10 treat F3 as a "platform" game like Rock Band. Keep adding new cars and tracks during the next few years.. and wait 2 or 3 years to release Forza 4.
I anxiously await to see what new tracks (if any) are in the pipeline. I'd love to see more city tracks like New York.
Personally, I would like to see Turn 10 treat F3 as a "platform" game like Rock Band. Keep adding new cars and tracks during the next few years.. and wait 2 or 3 years to release Forza 4.
I anxiously await to see what new tracks (if any) are in the pipeline. I'd love to see more city tracks like New York.
FunnyBunny said:
Don't think its set in stone yet. They have re-iterated though that they base it all off of community feedback, but at this moment it doesn't look like anything is on a strict schedule. I think it will follow more of Forza 2's model though. We know of the December pack, but as of now it doesn't seem like they'll follow through with the car pack-a-month that was rumoured before Forza 3 was announced.
i was so hopefull after the last matchmaking info update ! But so far nothing has changed...
i still dont know where we are heading... No schedule for an alternating Track/Car cycle, PRO Racing only in the distant future and we still dont know what that really means other than some of the assists are off. E and F class are online now but as stated earlier are only thinin out the rest of the hoppers ! Still the same track rotation going on, still no Rwd lobbies etc etc. we have like 100 Tracks now but only drive the same 5 tracks again and again...i know there a probably more but those get vetoed ! Only a hand full of competetiv cars for all classes which would be bearable if there was some kind restriction in the matchmaking ! Yes there will still be new LB every blue moon..but they all will be using the same exploit...
Whats going on Turn 10 ??? i asked this already on the FM matchmaking forums but i guess nobody reads them anymore ! Why should we make suggestions when nothing comes out of it is the general mindset atm i believe ! Take your MP lead director and let him outline the Matchmaking future on one of the next pit pass reports ! not to blame him but to give us somethink to look forward to ! cant see me much longer racing in the B class hopper and dont have much motivation to go in a diffrent one.... because of the broken PI/AWD/weight system...
i still dont know where we are heading... No schedule for an alternating Track/Car cycle, PRO Racing only in the distant future and we still dont know what that really means other than some of the assists are off. E and F class are online now but as stated earlier are only thinin out the rest of the hoppers ! Still the same track rotation going on, still no Rwd lobbies etc etc. we have like 100 Tracks now but only drive the same 5 tracks again and again...i know there a probably more but those get vetoed ! Only a hand full of competetiv cars for all classes which would be bearable if there was some kind restriction in the matchmaking ! Yes there will still be new LB every blue moon..but they all will be using the same exploit...
Whats going on Turn 10 ??? i asked this already on the FM matchmaking forums but i guess nobody reads them anymore ! Why should we make suggestions when nothing comes out of it is the general mindset atm i believe ! Take your MP lead director and let him outline the Matchmaking future on one of the next pit pass reports ! not to blame him but to give us somethink to look forward to ! cant see me much longer racing in the B class hopper and dont have much motivation to go in a diffrent one.... because of the broken PI/AWD/weight system...
Diablohead
Member
Vote track skip should be disabled in any pro or elite hopper, it can be annoying when you look forward to racing a more tight track and everyone votes it out for yet another race at suzuka because their cars have no steering or grip.
I would also love to see more of the circuit strings being used, if turn10 are worried about having too smaller tracks in the faster car hoppers then just use the medium sized ones and make them 5 laps instead of 3-4, for instance the new Sedona raceway has the layout which only uses the outside area (no raceway loop) and while it's about 1 minute quicker a lap, just make it 5 laps instead of 3.
Sometimes I think they only keep R3, R2 and R1 there because people like to max out their cars with all the custom parts, which usually sticks it into one of those R classes.
I would also love to see more of the circuit strings being used, if turn10 are worried about having too smaller tracks in the faster car hoppers then just use the medium sized ones and make them 5 laps instead of 3-4, for instance the new Sedona raceway has the layout which only uses the outside area (no raceway loop) and while it's about 1 minute quicker a lap, just make it 5 laps instead of 3.
Sometimes I think they only keep R3, R2 and R1 there because people like to max out their cars with all the custom parts, which usually sticks it into one of those R classes.
Diablohead
Member
Wonder if the Storefront prices are finally going up? I still want a cap but higher then 10k please.
I know some people have been complaining that when you drop an AWD drivetrain into a RWD car, the AWD car has a huge advantage. I don't know if it is true or not. But I did make a spreadsheet of the specs when I did exactly that with the Toyota Trueno GT Apex.
http://spreadsheets.google.com...XZOWWZTQkluQmc&hl=en
What it doesn't show is that people can generally be a bit more sloppy with the AWD car and not have it matter as much as it would with the RWD. Slam the gas in a corner with the AWD, and you will likely understeer. Do that with the RWD, and you are probably going to spin.
http://spreadsheets.google.com...XZOWWZTQkluQmc&hl=en
What it doesn't show is that people can generally be a bit more sloppy with the AWD car and not have it matter as much as it would with the RWD. Slam the gas in a corner with the AWD, and you will likely understeer. Do that with the RWD, and you are probably going to spin.
Diablohead
Member
The understeer is hardly any in forza 3, a few suspension tweaks and what understeer? the PI is broken end of story. If the ingame PI is saying that the car is too heavy/understeers so much that it needs that extra 0.5 speed, 0.2 accel and other bonuses then it is wrong.ShapeGSX said:
Hm looking at that chart quite a few stats drop in AWD, but that is hardly true above F class.
Maybe they got british info? complain all you like it's the native side to drive in the UK.nimrod said:
ExtraKr1spy
Banned
wtf 13 people voted for Valencia? If its the marina circuit where F1 races then no thanks(boring), if its the Valencia circuit where motogp races then no thanks(motogp riders complain about valencia being too tight)
imho A lot of the F1 circuits aren't good for other types of race cars other than F1(or something close to F1 cars speed/quickness/agility).
imho A lot of the F1 circuits aren't good for other types of race cars other than F1(or something close to F1 cars speed/quickness/agility).
The biggest thing is that it is 221lbs heavier with AWD, and that is why the stats drop. You can feel the weight in the corners, too. And the F200 RWD version will out accelerate the F200 AWD version in a straight. I was catching up with my AWD ghost in a straight, easily.
I'd like to see the results of doing this with some other cars. Maybe I'll try it. What other cars have an AWD swap available?
Edit: I should also mention that the AWD swapped gearing was WAY different from the RWD car.
I'd like to see the results of doing this with some other cars. Maybe I'll try it. What other cars have an AWD swap available?
Edit: I should also mention that the AWD swapped gearing was WAY different from the RWD car.
Diablohead
Member
Try to compare the Audi S5 at A600, should be a surprise. You might need to buy a premade tune so you know you have a good A600 setup that people use online and for the scoreboards. *edit* actually saying that I dunno if it can do RWD, in that case ummm try the Alfa Romeo C8ShapeGSX said:
Still, while the PI might work at F level, once you creep up to C and above it all goes to moot and AWD wins.
ShapeGSX said:
I really have no complaint with AWD vs RWD in B class or below. The busted AWD Viper swap in S and R3 class and the S5 in A class, although there are other AWD cars that are competitive in A class. The viper also has the advantage of a ludicrously high possible downforce compared to other S class vehicles.
The issue is that it scales really weird, the higher you go in PI rating the larger a dump the PI takes when you do the AWD swap. I'd understand if it were purely a power/weight ratio change but my example with the Nissan Z in A class show's something is off, as even with a better power/weight ratio the Nissan still has the same PI.
Well that chart is pretty good except for the Yas Marina which is a beautiful yet shitty track, just like all the new F1 tracks. I can't believe that Singapore, Abu Dhabi and Valencia made it in the list. Those shitty tracks don't deserve to be in F1 in the first place so they shouldn't be allowed in any video games.
Top Gear test track would be fun for time trial and testing setups but would be pointless for racing as you simply can't race on it. And with "that other game" making a big deal of getting it, I don't think Forza would be able to get it as well. I'd rather like to see Turn 10 focus on tracks that I can actually race on if we get any DLC tracks.
Seriously Turn 10, just give us Spa and Bathurst ! That's all we need !
Top Gear test track would be fun for time trial and testing setups but would be pointless for racing as you simply can't race on it. And with "that other game" making a big deal of getting it, I don't think Forza would be able to get it as well. I'd rather like to see Turn 10 focus on tracks that I can actually race on if we get any DLC tracks.
Seriously Turn 10, just give us Spa and Bathurst ! That's all we need !
Diablohead
Member
Don't think so, my mistake. Can you try the Alfa Romeo C8 as that starts as a RWD and you can convert to AWD (how I use it online atm)ShapeGSX said:
Can't argue with the top choices. I'd also love to see Infineon Raceway and Watkins Glen myself.MagniHarvald said:
I like how people put in the Pike's Peak Hill Climb. Wonder how a race car would handle on that track. I assume the Rhys Millen Genesis would have no problems.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Spa?!
But it's already available in that other 360 simulation!
But it's already available in that other 360 simulation!
Diablohead said:
Ok, I just did the same (very thoroughly) with the Alfa Romeo C8. I did just HP upgrades, then just handling, then a balanced one.
The results are quite damning. It does appear that the AWD PI drop due to weight is too extreme to me.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgVDqnNIe0UqdFhiSU9HaFNJX3FNTXZOWWZTQkluQmc&hl=en
There is a ton of positive for going AWD, and not a lot of negative. If their own benchmarks and ratings show this, how on earth could they have missed this?
Ultimo hombre
Banned
It's pretty clear that SPA needs to be put in. Shame that not enough people know about Isle of Man TT track
Diablohead
Member
Sometimes the stats don't show up their true ability's while racing, as I have a 5.8 handling Diablo SV which turns worse then my 5.6 C8 (due to some tuning tweaks) but AWD certainty do rule the top end classes.ShapeGSX said:
Thanks for doing this graph and I hope you continue to add to it, the more you can compare the better.
Diablohead
Member
Also remember in forza 3 at least, AWD cars can easily get away with stock tyres and no downforce and still run hot, as most rear wheel cars need that extra grip, taking away PI for other parts unless you can drive super silky smooth (not the easiest task in every race) and have to feather the throttle in powerful cars otherwise you just won't exit a slow corner well.
AWD in real life may benefit from all this and while that is true, the performance index should be higher on AWD cars, there is little to no reason why you should race online with anything other then 4 wheels of power right now in class C and above.
AWD in real life may benefit from all this and while that is true, the performance index should be higher on AWD cars, there is little to no reason why you should race online with anything other then 4 wheels of power right now in class C and above.
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