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Forza Motorsport will support Ray Tracing Global Illumination, but only on PC
- Thread starter KyoZz
- Start date
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I feel like we have lost our damn minds with this 30 fps and ray tracing nonsense. The game does not look next gen. It barely even looks better than last gen Forzas. RTGI wont fix this last gen lighting, it will only make it slightly more accurate.
I dont understand how these managed to do Forza 5 day on on xbox one with a massive leap on a console with only 5x more tflops and essentially the same trash CPU, but now, with a 9x boost in tflops and a massively more powerful CPU, the graphics look mostly the same?
What are we doing here? Why is no calling them out for releasing a next gen only game this dated in 2023?
Thirty7ven
Banned
The environments around the track seem to be very detailed. I agree though that Forza usually goes for this vibrancy I guess you could call it, that takes a bit away from photo realism but it’s an aesthetic choice.
djjinx2
Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Not sure if serious?
Do you think they will take a last gen looking game and make it next gen in the final three months?
Thirty7ven
Banned
Since when does being months away mean the visuals can’t be criticized/praised?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I am not seeing this detailed envrionment. Its ok at best. Environments looked better in Driveclub and Forza Horizon.
Real proper RTGI on PC, higher poly cars and the game would look great. It won't just look more accurate but next gen. That's what "looking next gen" is striving for in games like this, looking more accurate. I'm not sure what you were expecting for something to look next gen. What did you have in mind other than looking more realistic?
djjinx2
Member
"What are we doing here? Why is no calling them out for releasing a next gen only game this dated in 2023?"
....
I mean the game isn't released, I have seen it compared already to GT photomode shots already. WTF is going on here.
Last gen looking. WOW
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
Developers have a playbook, engage the rare pc crowd without damaging the console versions.
Graphics for the replay are good, but during gameplay, cars have a strange rendering, like they are detached from the track.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Photorealistic lighting, way better weather effects, way better destruction, better trackside detail, these trees look really basic. There is so much to improve.
Instead of wasting time working on RTGI on PC, they shouldve gone back and redid their entire lighting model to be more photorealistic on xbox. They had 6 years and an insanely powerful CPU/GPU combo.
//DEVIL//
Member
did any notice that when its raining, its only raining on the screen and the car is not even wet ? lolll.
honestly the graphics are super disappointing in this game. the reveal trailer was way more impressive.
And zero storage. And no inputs.
Well with no storage, streaming is the only option.With streaming you don't even need these specs.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And they'll show it off in commercials with the Xbox logo, tricking the masses into thinking that's what they'll pop into their consoles.
Tripolygon
Banned
Probably has to do with the way the scene is lit.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Forza 7.
Forza 8.
Different track, but the game doesnt scream next gen at all. The last thing we should be focused on is RTGI or fanboy shit like why isnt it on consoles. There are much larger issues than that.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
This is an Xbox First Party game from a FP Xbox dev. They shouldn't be treating XSX owners like second-class citizens.
They should have designed for RTGI on XSX and ported up to PC.
They should have designed for RTGI on XSX and ported up to PC.
//DEVIL//
Member
nope. it's just there is no rain on the car. I am hoping this is because it's an early build. but I hope to god the graphics get better. because so far from that video, the game doesn't look any better than FM7 on PC.
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
In this day and age, you're either a "budget gamer" or a fool, or very rich. A fool wastes his/her money on things that are wasteful. Budget gaming is for the savvy because everything is seeing costs go through the roof. People should only be getting the "best of the best" if they have enough money to not worry about anything.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I hope they blow out the game for high-end GPUs, but I would expect very, very limited RT in-game on console. GT7 doesn't have it at all and it looks great and DJ Khaled has proven to me that the XSX is not much more powerful than PS5 and doesn't have secret sauce. You can only do so much on fixed hardware.
Tripolygon
Banned
You might be right; it looks like the rain effect is only visible on the camera but not in the world. Can't believe no one still has touched driveclub rain effect.
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//DEVIL//
Member
Yup. Drive Club hands down has the most impressive gameplay graphics in a racing game. Even though, Need for Speed unbound has an amazing car details ( that I thought they matched Drive Club ( the car only, ugly anime affect and city is a big no )You might be right; it looks like the rain effect is only visible on the camera but not in the world. Can't believe no one still has touched driveclub rain effect.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
That’s cool that they are giving PC some extra love.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Their excuse last gen was that FOrza and GT are 60 fps so they lose half of the GPU power rendering double the frames instead of upping the trackside detail and weather in Driveclub.You might be right; it looks like the rain effect is only visible on the camera but not in the world. Can't believe no one still has touched driveclub rain effect.
Ok fine, but this 12.1 tflops GPU has 9.3x more tflops than the base xbox one. And counting IPC gains, is nearly 14x more powerful than the xbox one. You can have your 2x more power to do driveclub quality rain, sense of speed and forza horizon's trackside detail and still have 12x more GPU resources left to do other shit to make it look next gen.
Not to mention how they are no longer bound by jaguar CPUs like DriveClub and Forza Horizon were.
I think RTGI would go some way to provide more photorealistic lighting. I think they need to improve some of their shaders as well though to make it really shine.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
I mean the Series X footage also didn't blow me away but you got to keep in mind with 3 things.
- The track is set in Africa so its not the most visually dense track to show the environments compared to other tracks like Maple Valley
- Every footage before this was running on pc with all the effects enabled like RT reflections and RTGI
- This was not a recent build and they had lots of missing effects and iq issues which destroyed the overall presentation
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
The car paint shader model they are using looks completely wrong, especially the index of reflection of the metallic paint. Makes the game look cartoonish compared to GT7.
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sendit
Member
I agree, the lighting regardless of what time of day it is looks completely off. The image quality however IMO, looks pristine.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Looks fine as fuck. And knowing T10s pedigree, probably will be a rock solid performer to boot.
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KuraiShidosha
Member
I have a 4090 in my PC and honestly I've come to the conclusion that ray tracing is just not there yet. Even with DLSS Quality and Frame Generation together, you still take a massive hit to framerate like no other setting. And all this for what most games barely offer anything significant over regular rasterized graphics. There's only one game I know of that uses it in a truly transformative way and that's Cyberpunk 2077 with specifically the RT Overdrive mode. This is because it's not some bolted on ray traced feature but full blown revamp of the entire lighting pipeline to only use ray tracing. It solves virtually all of the raster graphics techniques flaws and limitations but there's a catch...
It only looks good when everything is frozen in time. The second there's motion, it falls apart. Their denoiser just can't cope with the extremely limited number of rays being fired into the scene per frame to keep things perfectly clean at all times. Compare the shadows of an NPC walking past a glowing billboard at night when using the old RT Psycho setting vs Overdrive. The old one has clean shadows on every frame while these shadows in Overdrive mode are just a smeary blur across the ground because they can only make this mode performant on a 4090 with all the DLSS optimizations available in conjunction with temporal ray gathering. It's an ugly mess and destroys the illusion when you view these things as an INTERACTIVE medium and not just a screenshot simulator. In a racing game? Forget it. Totally meaningless. It's a non-feature.
It only looks good when everything is frozen in time. The second there's motion, it falls apart. Their denoiser just can't cope with the extremely limited number of rays being fired into the scene per frame to keep things perfectly clean at all times. Compare the shadows of an NPC walking past a glowing billboard at night when using the old RT Psycho setting vs Overdrive. The old one has clean shadows on every frame while these shadows in Overdrive mode are just a smeary blur across the ground because they can only make this mode performant on a 4090 with all the DLSS optimizations available in conjunction with temporal ray gathering. It's an ugly mess and destroys the illusion when you view these things as an INTERACTIVE medium and not just a screenshot simulator. In a racing game? Forget it. Totally meaningless. It's a non-feature.
Xcell Miguel
Gold Member
Gameplay RT on PC in Forza Horizon 5 only adds self-reflections of your car so it's quite low on GPU usage, so it really depends on how it's implemented in the game and what it is used for.
I wish they added a setting to also have other cars' reflections on our car like in photo mode (it's heavier of course). Or better, also include the world reflections in RT instead of still using cubemaps (even in photo mode).
But with a 4090 I don't need DLSS3 FG to maintain 120 FPS in FH5, so with FG (or 60 FPS) they can make RT better.
I still use FG though so it only uses around 50% of the GPU, thus lower power usage, less heat, and still crisp 4K120 image.
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Umbasaborne
Banned
People think this game looks dated? The fuck?
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Game looks worse than gt7
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
What pisses me off so much is how that first reveal trailer they were presenting it to the masses as Series X. "Witness the power of the Series X through Forza Motorsport" was in the official video blurb.
Just be fucking honest from the beginning. This is just as bad as Redfall being shown at 60 fps running "Series X" when that turned put to be a lie.
The game itself honestly looks worse than gt7 AND no RT reflections in gameplay
Just be fucking honest from the beginning. This is just as bad as Redfall being shown at 60 fps running "Series X" when that turned put to be a lie.
The game itself honestly looks worse than gt7 AND no RT reflections in gameplay
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Some leaked gameplay footage, this looks like the pc version. Why didn't they show this in the event, full RT reflections (interior and exterior) beautiful lighting, incredible environmental detail, almost no pop in, high quality shadows with no draw lines and amazing sound. And this is also not even the final build
Riky
$MSFT
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Looks better but not that good.
I think in the conference they showed everything running on the XSX or at XSX specs. I think starfield was supposedly running on XSX equivalent hardware/settings. They were trying to be transparent I guess. Kinda refreshing tbh.
Will be playing this on PC so its good to see them not hold back their true vision because of series x let alone series s.
93xfan
Banned
SSD and better CPU.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
They should of shown gameplay on a more dynamic track. This way the game looked nothing spectacular with a very bland outside track environment and theres plenty real life tracks that just arent lookers. The announcement trailer made it look great but the track choice to show the actual gameplay was so bad. I dont doubt it will look good considering how FH5 ended up looking but I can totally see why people would say this looks bad. Not sure if the game will have any fantasy tracks or just real life ones but even GT7 can look like a drab if its one of those tracks that simply dont have that much side detail but then you play the game on a made up track and it shines:
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sendit
Member
Meh...no vr, no buy.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Whats not looking good in this footage? This is a track racing sim, did you expect titans to fight in the background
.Yup that South African track is not the most visually track to showcase the graphics. But still compared to other games is can see huge upgrades.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Everything as the IQ is really bad.
CamHostage
Member
...What would be your definition of 'photorealistic'?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I think we have reached the point of diminishing returns in racing games. If you told us that was all rasterization, everyone would believe you.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Basically, the pre-rendered intros and replays from last gen GT games. Forza is still using that cartoony lighting that might actually be masking all the effort they have put into other rendering features.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Nah, just look at any GT intro from last gen. They look vastly better than what those GTs were able to do during gameplay.
Until i get interiors like this from Forza and GT, im not going to worry about diminishing returns.
