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[Salazar]

"http://moreas.blog.lemonde.fr/2010/10/22/manifs-la-video-qui-fait-debat/"]

Coward at :30 needs a beating.

 

[SmokyDave]

Weird stuffs happens now,
there's a video showing someone breaking a window and all
That's kinda weird, look like a setup but it gotta be the stupidest thing ever if it's a setup....
so...

Fucking scum, pure & simple.

If that was my state, several men in black would have stepped out of the shadows and executed the fucker smashing the window before doubly executing the little bitch with the fly kick. That's right, double execution. My secret police would have killed him twice.

They aren't making any points, they don't have any feelings on raising the retirement age, they're simply attacking the society that they are part of because it is there to attack.

Double execution.

 

[Mael]

You openly admit that politicians even the "socialists" aren't doing shit and that there isn't a political solution on sight yet you keep insisting that protests aren't a valid option. Maybe they aren't a good option but they're the only one. These kind of protests keep the leadership relatively scared and even when they fail at their primary goal they force the ruling class to compromise and severely hurts the image of the government. It's no coincidence that in countries that rarely protest and react they get screwed a lot worse than France.

You can keep hoping for conformism to work but until it does the only reasonable solution is to keep fighting because corporatism is at every european country's door and will soon completely take over like it happened in USA.

You don't get it, protesting IS conformism here.
The VERY SAME law was voted not 10 years after the protests of 95->97.
the same will apply here, it will be voted in the end if not now then a few years later.
The problem with that law is not that it's applied now, it's that it's not a good law at all.
protesting only delay the problems, if one want to solve it they need to take an active part in politic and THAT is NOT conformism.
Heck there was that referendum about the EU constituion with protests and all. In the end it was passed as Lisbon treaty, the very same text!
And worse still it was a MAJOR part of Sarkozy's program!
When I say that the people is largely used to being ignored it's not empty words.
If you want to get heard go into a party and make your voice heard.
Protesting in France is one the least useful form of leading the country where you want.

 

[Salazar]

Fucking scum, pure & simple.

If that was my state, several men in black would have stepped out of the shadows and executed the fucker smashing the window before doubly executing the little bitch with the fly kick. That's right, double execution. My secret police would have killed him twice.

My secret police would have a sufficiently refined sense of the poetry of the universe to have put the scum's heads through the damaged window.

Much brutality, both inventive and crude, would follow, but that would be the opening flourish.

 

[Mael]

And while nobody's looking....business as usual

In short :
Web access + TV and phone have added taxation
->Right and center right voted for and the left against
And that's for something that's against the EU law btw

And another law limiting the golden parachute.
-> against the advice of the budget minister Baroin, that one is actually not so bad

And because they're actually working

The TVA the nomad (gens du voyage) have to pay for the housing and all have been lowered from 19.6 to 5.5.

 

[fortified_concept]

You don't get it, protesting IS conformism here.
The VERY SAME law was voted not 10 years after the protests of 95->97.
the same will apply here, it will be voted in the end if not now then a few years later.
The problem with that law is not that it's applied now, it's that it's not a good law at all.
protesting only delay the problems, if one want to solve it they need to take an active part in politic and THAT is NOT conformism.
Heck there was that referendum about the EU constituion with protests and all. In the end it was passed as Lisbon treaty, the very same text!
And worse still it was a MAJOR part of Sarkozy's program!
When I say that the people is largely used to being ignored it's not empty words.
If you want to get heard go into a party and make your voice heard.
Protesting in France is one the least useful form of leading the country where you want.

Oh c'mon, protesting is never conformism. If it was, the prick wouldn't do everything in his power to stop it. If it was he wouldn't expose what a fascist shit he is by forcing strikers to work under the thread of imprisonment. Just because it's common practice doesn't mean it's either bad or conformist. The fact that the French have resisted that shit before is only proof that what they're doing works.

And of course political change is the most efficient solution but it's also the most unlikely one since corporatism is already rising within the EU. The most classic example of this is that outside Scandinavian nations (and that is changing too nowadays) no socialist party in europe is actually socialistic anymore. Most of them serve corporate interests and are almost as anti-labour as the right-wingers.

 

[Mael]

Oh c'mon, protesting is never conformism. If it was, the prick wouldn't do everything in his power to stop it. If it was he wouldn't expose what a fascist shit he is by forcing strikers to work under the thread of imprisonment. Just because it's common practice doesn't mean it's either bad or conformist. The fact that the French have resisted that shit before is only proof that what they're doing works.

That particular law is actually currently in effect since 2007, in effect the protest served nothing.
And in France protesting IS conformism.
That's pretty much the de facto standard way the unions make what they want known.
Union in Air France want a raise? Protest + Strike
People in Transportation got someone robbed or something? Protest + Strike
You wouldn't even know there was a union if they didn't remind you of their existence every year with their protest + strike combos.

And of course political change is the most efficient solution but it's also the most unlikely one since corporatism is already rising within the EU. The most classic example of this is that outside Scandinavian nations (and that is changing too nowadays) no socialist party in europe is actually socialistic anymore. Most of them serve corporate interests and are almost as anti-labour as the right-wingers.

That's especially because we left them do it, you want that to change, steer them away from that.
I'm sayign it's easy I'm saying that's the only way.

 

[Linkified]

And while nobody's looking....business as usual

In short :
Web access + TV and phone have added taxation
->Right and center right voted for and the left against
And that's for something that's against the EU law btwAnd another law limiting the golden parachute.
-> against the advice of the budget minister Baroin, that one is actually not so bad

And because they're actually working

The TVA the nomad (gens du voyage) have to pay for the housing and all have been lowered from 19.6 to 5.5.

Can't be I'm sure we have VAT added on TV, Internet and we pay a license fee to watch TV in the UK, otherwise we would have had how handssmacked for it long ago.

 

[Mael]

Breaking news about the revolt of 2005 :

Drame de Clichy-sous-Bois : deux policiers renvoyés en correctionnelle
Les deux policiers mis en examen pour non-assistance à personne en danger après la mort en octobre 2005 de deux jeunes électrocutés à Clichy-sous-Bois ont été renvoyés devant le tribunal correctionnel, selon l'avocat des familles. (AFP)

In short :
the scumbags of the police that are to blame for the 2005 revolt are being put to trial for not helping the kids not getting killed.

Can't be I'm sure we have VAT added on TV, Internet and we pay a license fee to watch TV in the UK, otherwise we would have had how handssmacked for it long ago.

That's a technicallity,
you can't change the taxation on telco without notifying the EU.
That's the illegal part.

 

[Linkified]

Breaking news about the revolt of 2005 :



In short :
the scumbags of the police that are to blame for the 2005 revolt are being put to trial for not helping the kids not getting killed.



That's a technicallity,
you can't change the taxation on telco without notifying the EU.
That's the illegal part.

Thing is EU can say its illegal but the EU can't enforce its own regulations, see the fishing policy.

 

[Fjolle]

Breaking news about the revolt of 2005 :



In short :
the scumbags of the police that are to blame for the 2005 revolt are being put to trial for not helping the kids not getting killed.

I'm not totally in the loop, but how exactly were they supposed to help them?
According to wikipedia they were at the police station at the time when the kids got electrocuted. And even if they were right next to the power station there's not much to if someone gets in the way of high voltage. (Proof (NSFL))

 

[Alcoori]

Breaking news about the revolt of 2005 :



In short :
the scumbags of the police that are to blame for the 2005 revolt are being put to trial for not helping the kids not getting killed.

Wait, I thought that the two policemen were chasing the two teens after they committed something and while they were trying to escape they ended up in an electrical cupboard thingy. How is that the policemen fault?
If they left them to die without calling help, ok, but otherwise isn't that the kids' fault?

 

[wolfmat]

I'm not totally in the loop, but how exactly were they supposed to help them?
According to wikipedia they were at the police station at the time when the kids got electrocuted. And even if they were right next to the power station there's not much to if someone gets in the way of high voltage. (Proof (NSFL))

Yep, high voltage is pretty straight-forward.

 

[Mael]

I edited the quote with a link to LeMonde detailing the AFP news

Thing is EU can say its illegal but the EU can't enforce its own regulations, see the fishing policy.

They can pretty much force a repeal to the policy, and they can put the dreaded fine in place too.
EU pretty much can enforce its policy and do it at times, it's a bit closer to the US system though it probably needs to go to court though (wereas in france a court does NOT say if a law is good or not, it only goes according to the law).

Wait, I thought that the two policemen were chasing the two teens after they committed something and while they were trying to escape they ended up in an electrical cupboard thingy. How is that the policemen fault?
If they left them to die without calling help, ok, but otherwise isn't that the kids' fault?

It's pretty much known that the police chased the kids who ran off to get killed in the power station.
If the policemen actively chased them and the only out for the kids was the high voltage station they're liable.
If they didn't call for help or anything they're even more liable.
Still it's a complicated issue and we'll hopefully get a fair trial here

 

[Mael]

If this is true it's even more hillarious than before

In short there's going to be major debate on the retirement system in 2013.
This reform was only to show notation agencies that they don't need to reevaluate France's notation.
That's the gist of the link

 

[Husker86]

I edited the quote with a link to LeMonde detailing the AFP news



They can pretty much force a repeal to the policy, and they can put the dreaded fine in place too.
EU pretty much can enforce its policy and do it at times, it's a bit closer to the US system though it probably needs to go to court though (wereas in france a court does NOT say if a law is good or not, it only goes according to the law).



It's pretty much known that the police chased the kids who ran off to get killed in the power station.
If the policemen actively chased them and the only out for the kids was the high voltage station they're liable.
If they didn't call for help or anything they're even more liable.
Still it's a complicated issue and we'll hopefully get a fair trial here

Don't these kids have another "out"? Don't fucking run from the police?

 

[Mael]

Don't these kids have another "out"? Don't fucking run from the police?

Considering how the police is perceived in theses parts?
That wasn't even an option.
I mean when you've got the impression that the police is not there to serve you and the population but to make your life worse that's what happens.

 

[Sotha Sil]

Went to a conference held my researchers from my University this morning, the hall was almost empty... people where supposed to come from England and southern France; you can imagine how that went. Even the ones who lived (relatively) close by couldn't get enough gas to make the trip. Felt kinda bad for my professors.

And from the stickers and banners hung on the wall, I'd seem that the UNEF (leftist students' union) is thinking of joining the strike. Wonderful.

 

[Mael]

Went to a conference held my researchers from my University this morning, the hall was almost empty... people where supposed to come from England and southern France; you can imagine how that went. Even the ones who lived (relatively) close by couldn't get enough gas to make the trip. Felt kinda bad for my professors.

And from the stickers and banners hung on the wall, I'd seem that the UNEF (leftist students' union) is thinking of joining the strike. Wonderful.

they haven't already? Wow might be the first time I hear of them not being at the forefront of a protest :lol

 

[Kurtofan]

If this is true it's even more hillarious than before

In short there's going to be major debate on the retirement system in 2013.
This reform was only to show notation agencies that they don't need to reevaluate France's notation.
That's the gist of the link

Haha we sure showed them.
Reevaluate us all you want we don't care!

Went to a conference held my researchers from my University this morning, the hall was almost empty... people where supposed to come from England and southern France; you can imagine how that went. Even the ones who lived (relatively) close by couldn't get enough gas to make the trip. Felt kinda bad for my professors.

And from the stickers and banners hung on the wall, I'd seem that the UNEF (leftist students' union) is thinking of joining the strike. Wonderful.

Which university is this?
People in my university are demonstrating quite often.

 

[Mael]

Haha we sure showed them.
Reevaluate us all you want we don't care!

Huh actually that was the plan all along, just saying...

 

[Sotha Sil]

they haven't already? Wow might be the first time I hear of them not being at the forefront of a protest :lol

Well frankly, I'm a little surprised too! It's been what, 5 (long) strikes in 7 years? Wonder what they're up to.

Edit: sorry, by "strike" I meant students shuting down the university completely, not merely demonstrating. Should have been more specific.

 

[Mael]

Well frankly, I'm a little surprised too! It's been what, 5 (long) strikes in 7 years? Wonder what they're up to.

Edit: sorry, by "strike" I meant students shuting down the university completely, not merely demonstrating. Should have been more specific.

yeah 5 strikes in 7 years? you're trying to pass them as hard working students? :lol

 

[Sotha Sil]

yeah 5 strikes in 7 years? you're trying to pass them as hard working students? :lol

Let's just say that I've seen waaay too many hippies lying on old torn up sofas right in the center of my Uni's main hall these past few years :lol

 

[Mael]

Let's just say that I've seen waaay too many hippies lying on old torn up sofas right in the center of my Uni's main hall these past few years :lol

The good thing is that as you advance into uni you get to other facilities where they never get to go so you don't even notice they're even there .
Seriously if only for that I should have gone the grandes ecoles route, way easier and way less interferences.

 

[Alcoori]

Considering how the police is perceived in theses parts?
That wasn't even an option.
I mean when you've got the impression that the police is not there to serve you and the population but to make your life worse that's what happens.

So wait. Those kids committed a felony, yet the cops aren't supposed to do anything about it?
I know the situation in those areas is pretty bad, but that doesn't mean you're supposed to give a free pass to anyone who breaks the law. I don't think the situation started with the police, those areas were already no man's lands and sending the police didn't make it better.
And yes, I do realize normal people who have done nothing live in those areas and that they are unjustly seen as scum because of that.
I guess the trial will shed the light on what really happened, but I honestly thought it was just a case of little thugs being too dumb to know that hidding in a power station is pretty dangerous.

And to stay on topic, my parents live in Chartres which is roughly 80kms from Paris and my mom told me she had no problem getting gas today.

 

[Mael]

So wait. Those kids committed a felony, yet the cops aren't supposed to do anything about it?
I know the situation in those areas is pretty bad, but that doesn't mean you're supposed to give a free pass to anyone who breaks the law. I don't think the situation started with the police, those areas were already no man's lands and sending the police didn't make it better.
And yes, I do realize normal people who have done nothing live in those areas and that they are unjustly seen as scum because of that.
I guess the trial will shed the light on what really happened, but I honestly thought it was just a case of little thugs being too dumb to know that hidding in a power station is pretty dangerous.

And to stay on topic, my parents live in Chartres which is roughly 80kms from Paris and my mom told me she had no problem getting gas today.

The thing is that they broke no law it was just the regular 'YOUR PAPERS PLEASE' situation.
The kids saw that and ran, that's it.
That's why all the uproar was all about, 2 kids died because the police is seen as trouble makers wanting to get as many people in trouble as possible.
Heck the police can do that type of control to anyone whenever they want, and that's actually not a problem.

 

[Kurtofan]

The thing is that they broke no law it was just the regular 'YOUR PAPERS PLEASE' situation.
The kids saw that and ran, that's it.
That's why all the uproar was all about, 2 kids died because the police is seen as trouble makers wanting to get as many people in trouble as possible.
Heck the police can do that type of control to anyone whenever they want, and that's actually not a problem.

I'm sorry but even if the police is teh boogeymen into the ghetto, throwing yourself in a high voltage engine when you didn't do anything bad, is really the dumbest move ever.

 

[Mael]

I'm sorry but even if the police is teh boogeymen in the ghetto, throwing yourself in a high voltage engine when you didn't do anything bad, is really the dumbest move ever.

I never said that they were the brightest bunch in the pack either, just saying that they had it coming with making the police act as boogeymen.

 

[Kurtofan]

I never said that they were the brightest bunch in the pack either, just saying that they had it coming with making the police act as boogeymen.

Oh ok,I thought you were blaming the police for controlling people.

 

[Mael]

Oh ok,I thought you were blaming the police for controlling people.

No I'm blaming the police for acting on the day2day as they did which led theses kids to do something as stupid as they did => which lead them to their death.
The funny part is that it's actually Sarkozy's policy faults that lead to this situation, heck he was supposed to give more means to the policemen and they got nothing in the end :lol
Really gotta love how he took them for a bunch of saps :lol

 

[Kurtofan]

No I'm blaming the police for acting on the day2day as they did which led theses kids to do something as stupid as they did => which lead them to their death.
The funny part is that it's actually Sarkozy's policy faults that lead to this situation, heck he was supposed to give more means to the policemen and they got nothing in the end :lol
Really gotta love how he took them for a bunch of saps :lol

Yeah Sarkozy fooled everyone on the security issue.
Probably the worst Interior Minister of all time and that's thanks to this job he got elected,WTF?

 

[Mael]

Yeah Sarkozy fooled everyone on the security issue.
Probably the worst Interior Minister of all time and that's thanks to this fonction he got elected,WTF?

This election made no sense, the guy was the most important minister of the former government and he goes out and says he'll do things differently?
The numbers for the security where basically showing that with or without him, it was quite the same => OMG he's doing an awesome job! WhaT?

And to top it all the left candidate lose the most important guy who lead her campaign for that guy :lol
seriously it was like looking at a trainwreck in slomo :lol
Then again Chirac's campaign was pretty funny in 95 too:lol

 

[Mael]

Well students are officially part of the fray now :lol

 

[Sotha Sil]

Well students are officially part of the fray now :lol

L'UNEF appelle notamment à des "rassemblements", des "sit-in" et "actions coup de poing"

Well, this semester had a good run.

 

[Kurtofan]

Well students are officially part of the fray now :lol

Argh my first semester.
Great way to start university:utter chaos.

 

[Sotha Sil]

Argh my first semester.
Great way to start university:utter chaos.

Don't worry, young padawan. I'm a CPE crisis veteran. It gets easier :lol

 

[Mael]

from my experience, if you're in science you're part of the lucky ones,
if you're in humanities (lettres & histoire).....well time to actually put your tent into the uni library :lol

 

[Kurtofan]

from my experience, if you're in science you're part of the lucky ones,
if you're in humanities (lettres & histoire).....well time to actually put your tent into the uni library :lol

Well I'm fucked :lol
Editr maybe not,languages aren't the same thing I think.

 

[Alcoori]

Oh ok Mael, I think I misunderstood what you meant. I actually agree with you

I've been living abroad for the last 3 years and not really following what was going on in France (besides a little of Hadopi and this and that regarding the government).

Honestly I think that it's a good thing people are able to demonstrate, but then when I hear the rail people (cheminots) are in on that when the reform is not even concerning them (yet), I find it utterly ridiculous.
I disagree with lots of what Sarkozy did/is doing, yet I do think that there needs to be a talk about the retirement system.

And honestly, complaining for 2 more years when it's still less that most other countries AND we have the 35h work week?
HA!

(Then again I don't know that much about the actual issue and I'm off to reading more about it).

 

[mre]

from my experience, if you're in science you're part of the lucky ones,
if you're in humanities (lettres & histoire).....well time to actually put your tent into the uni library :lol

Why do you have to participate if you don't want to? What will this "student's union" do to you if you keep going to class or don't otherwise participate in their strike?

 

[Kurtofan]

Why do you have to participate if you don't want to? What will this "student's union" do to you if you keep going to class or don't otherwise participate in their strike?

Well if there's a blockade you can't pass that's all.

 

[Mael]

Why do you have to participate if you don't want to? What will this "student's union" do to you if you keep going to class or don't otherwise participate in their strike?

Again in my experience,
in science nobody gives a shit and the courses go as usual,
in humanities they actually prevent people from going to class and block the access to the classrooms thus preventing anyone from having the courses.
Oh and since in science nobody gives a shit, they actually force the rooms to open.

Oh ok Mael, I think I misunderstood what you meant. I actually agree with you

I've been living abroad for the last 3 years and not really following what was going on in France (besides a little of Hadopi and this and that regarding the government).

Honestly I think that it's a good thing people are able to demonstrate, but then when I hear the rail people (cheminots) are in on that when the reform is not even concerning them (yet), I find it utterly ridiculous.
I disagree with lots of what Sarkozy did/is doing, yet I do think that there needs to be a talk about the retirement system.

And honestly, complaining for 2 more years when it's still less that most other countries AND we have the 35h work week?
HA!

(Then again I don't know that much about the actual issue and I'm off to reading more about it).

Oh there will be talk and there should have been talk but seriously some unions are making it hard to be taken seriously.
I mean the whole special threatment for the rail people is disingenous to say the least...
And for the record I don't even care about that reform, one way or another.
I just wish they went and talked about the much more interesting subjects, like 2011 budget.

 

[Magni]

Well I'm fucked :lol
Editr maybe not,languages aren't the same thing I think.

Fac' de langues? You're screwed.

I'm in engineering, so far one teacher went on strike once (the philosophy teacher :lol), but only once because otherwise those who had taken philosophy this semester would have been late. Yay for smart and non-lazy teachers and students

 

[LordPhoque]

My college has been blocked all week. By a fucking stupid minority.

Spoiler

Putain de gauchiasses débiles

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

Well students are officially part of the fray now :lol

English? University being blockaded?

 

[Magni]

The high school movement is dead thankfully, as they're on break now, but most universities don't have Fall break, so they could continue fucking shit up. We'll see how long it'll tzke for them to calm down ><

 

[Zhengi]

The thing is that they broke no law it was just the regular 'YOUR PAPERS PLEASE' situation.
The kids saw that and ran, that's it.
That's why all the uproar was all about, 2 kids died because the police is seen as trouble makers wanting to get as many people in trouble as possible.
Heck the police can do that type of control to anyone whenever they want, and that's actually not a problem.

I'm kind of wondering though, if a police person is in that situation, how are they supposed to know that the kids just ran because they didn't want to be involved with the police? For all the police people know, those kids could have done something else like murder, robbery, or something worse than that. During that situation, all they know is that these kids are running away and possibly hiding something. They're obligated to chase.

Seems very similar to that situation in California where the hispanic community got upset with the LA police for shooting an immigrant man for wielding a knife. People are reacting rather than taking a moment to consider the situations in both cases. The police had no choice but to take the best course of action given the events that occurred.

 

[Canova]

So France is still burning? how long has this been going on? a week?

 

[NotWii]

HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?! <3

More pictures
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/10/france_on_strike.html