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FRIDAYTON MK II: 5.5 million bears and salmon create unholy allliance to sack SONY HQ

D

DeadlyVirus

Member
Tom Penny said:
It doesn't add up. I run window's 7 with 4GB total of ram and can play nearly every game with an old GTX 460. 3.5 for an OS is absurd.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that Win7 a continuation of other Windows OS's which have been in development and optimization for over 20 years. It's not build up from zero in 1-2 years, like PS4 ou X1
 
D

Dysun

Member
Disappointing to hear the OS footprint is that large, but it still has the faster memory, better gpu and price. Oh well
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
3.5GB sounds ridiculous and overkill. I am hoping they adjust it to where its 2.5GB and that additional gig is immediately and always available to every developer.
 
G

Garjon

Member
If this is true then it is disappointing. I was expecting clsoe to 8GB RAM as standard for this gen.

However, it doesn't make a lot of sense if it is true. How can the OS footprint balloon out like that? Why haven't other devs been more critical and outspoken of Sony right now? Why is no one else picking up on this?
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
ChronotriggerJM said:
The PS3 was a jack of all trades media box, with a muuuuuuuch smaller footprint lol. I don't see how any of this adds up. Why wouldn't you just dedicate 4 gigs of DDR3 to the OS? Why would you want to throw DDR5 at it, it can't use it!
Click to expand...

well, part of the anti-xbone narrative has been that its not a dedicated gaming machine and 3 of 8 gigs of ram dedicated to other things was evidence as such. its entertaining to see the tables turned on such arguments.
 
dragonfart28

dragonfart28

Banned
ChronotriggerJM said:
The PS3 was a jack of all trades media box, with a muuuuuuuch smaller footprint lol. I don't see how any of this adds up. Why wouldn't you just dedicate 4 gigs of DDR3 to the OS? Why would you want to throw DDR5 at it, it can't use it!
Click to expand...

They probably want to make use of that extra 0.5 - 1.5 GB of DDR5 for games.

Just out of curiosity - what's the Xbone comparison on how much RAM it has and how much is being used for OS?
 
I

infinityBCRT

Member
Corto said:
Just for context, PS3 had 120 MB reserved for the OS at the start of its lifecycle from a total of 512 MB (256+256) and it's currently (as far as my googling goes) at 50 MB. Memory usage optimization it's a technical reality (for both consoles) not a fanboyism.
Click to expand...

I don't know how real it will be in Microsoft's case. While the Xbox One OS is technically new, its using pieces of heavily optimized OSes (Xbox 360 OS, Windows 8 OS, Hyper-V). And a large amount of RAM they are using is going to fast app switching most likely, and I don't know how you get around needing those large chunks of RAM. Its hard to compare the evolution of these new OSes to the previous generation ones. With 360/PS3, they never had to deal with anything but a simple guide. There was no multitasking at all in those machines. And once you reserve a certain amount of RAM for multitasking, you can't exactly take that RAM away without breaking the way other apps work.
 
B

battlefieldfan1

Banned
Auto_aim1 said:
First you said consumer electronic companies repackage stuff and now you're saying they shouldn't do it. What exactly is your point? If you're saying Samsung is a better company than Sony and Apple, I'm not interested in that.

FYI: They spent $400 million on Cell.
Click to expand...

Nice reading comprehension.
I said consumer electronics companies SHOULDN'T invent new technology, meaning they should continue repackaging.
Also, I never claimed Samsung is a better company than SONY or Apple. I claimed that Samsung is currently the ONLY company in the world that designs their own technology and uses it in its own consumer electronics product while still maintaining a higher than average profit margin. Considering SONY's PS3 $600 fiasco, you have to give Samsung some credit.
 
K

Knuf

Member
So now we finally know what that "Sony has told developers that it is pushing for the final PS4 RAM to match up to Microsoft's 8GB" quote from Edge really meant: they only wanted to add more RAM to match (and surpass) the MS OS footprint. LOL if true!
But then again, why did they even bother to tell such a thing to devs? Maybe Edge edited out the part where Sony told devs: "We're adding 4 moar gigs but... fuck you! Forget you'll ever able to use them!"?
 
K

Kinyou

Member
WhatRobEats said:
Google translate is so funny sometimes:
Cj0mZGi.png
Click to expand...
When I grow up I want to be a rocket chicken producer
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
Garjon said:
If this is true then it is disappointing. I was expecting clsoe to 8GB RAM as standard for this gen.

However, it doesn't make a lot of sense if it is true. How can the OS footprint balloon out like that? Why haven't other devs been more critical and outspoken of Sony right now? Why is no one else picking up on this?
Click to expand...

Would the Vita connectivity features they have planned require them to reserve more ram?
 
S

Scrooged

Totally wronger about Nintendo's business decisions.
I can't believe people believe this.

So when the originally had 4GB of RAM did games only have access to 1.5GB? lol
 
I

I H8 Memes

Member
Wow. Such an incredible waste of memory from both of these systems. 3 years from now I want everyone to remember that these systems could have had 7gb's of memory available to developers.
 
O

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
DeadlyVirus said:
Don't forget that Win7 a continuation of other Windows OS's which have been in development and optimization for over 20 years. It's not build up from zero in 1-2 years, like PS4 ou X1
Click to expand...

PS4 OS is FreeBSD based, which has a much older history than Windows or even DOS ;) :p
 
G

glenn8

Banned
Deraj said:
If Orbis OS is based on FreeBSD 9 then it would only need 512mb to 1 GB.. surely?
Click to expand...

I find 1gb to be more realistic than 3gb

Microsoft has proven that their OS needs 3gb. They got 3 OS's running there with various stuff like that useless TV multitasking etc.

The PS4 on the other hand... Ive seen nothing that I could approve it to use 3gb..

Now If I look back 10 years ago, I remember my old ass TV from the scond world war had the ability to show TV and gaming(ps2)/another TV show. The ps2 didnt extra ram.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
If they want similar functionality they need similar quantities. Do you disagree?
Click to expand...

PS4 doesn't feature kinect and so no resources ought to be lost there. Also, last I checked, they aren't even going for the tv functionality akin to xbone.

So all in all, does that only save them 512MB of ram over xbone's 3GB footprint?
 
DietRob

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
Garjon said:
If this is true then it is disappointing. I was expecting clsoe to 8GB RAM as standard for this gen.

However, it doesn't make a lot of sense if it is true. How can the OS footprint balloon out like that? Why haven't other devs been more critical and outspoken of Sony right now? Why is no one else picking up on this?
Click to expand...

Do you think that perhaps your questions are answering your question?

Personally I think we should all hold of and see what Sony has to say. But ThisIsNeogaf.gif

I H8 Memes said:
Wow. Such an incredible waste of memory from both of these systems. 3 years from now I want everyone to remember that these systems could have had 7gb's of memory available to developers.
Click to expand...

And they likely will come close if the OS shrinks as indicated by the previous gen.
 
D

DeadlyVirus

Member
infinityBCRT said:
I don't know how real it will be in Microsoft's case. While the Xbox One OS is technically new, its using pieces of heavily optimized OSes (Xbox 360 OS, Windows 8 OS, Hyper-V). And a large amount of RAM they are using is going to fast app switching most likely, and I don't know how you get around needing those large chunks of RAM. Its hard to compare the evolution of these new OSes to the previous generation ones. With 360/PS3, they never had to deal with anything but a simple guide. There was no multitasking at all in those machines. And once you reserve a certain amount of RAM for multitasking, you can't exactly take that RAM away without breaking the way other apps work.
Click to expand...

And we still don't know how much the X1 OS will gobble up. They said 3GB, but we all know that they could just be throwing out their goals, and not revealing the reality
 
I

ironcreed

Banned
Alx said:
Well, it may be another lesson they learnt from the current gen. They started the PS3 with a specific amount of memory reserved for the OS, and later on they found it difficult to make it evolve and add new features.
So many gigs of RAM seem huge indeed, but since MS is using the same amount of memory, maybe they don't want to be left behind again and prepare at least for feature equality, in case so much RAM proves to be useful.
It's easier to reserve it now and eventually reduce that requirement later, than let developers use 7G and be stuck with a 1G OS forever.
Click to expand...

But the Xbox One is using 3 OS, 2 of which are for mandatory Kinect and cable box integration features. From what we now know of the hardware, none of this is baked into the PS4 design. Why do they need so much space of GDDR5 to be set aside for non gaming functions? Unless of course their plan is to pander to the gamer base straight out of the gate and then shoehorn all of this other shit in down the road.
 
K

Kazuma Kiryu

Member
Hey projectjustice, why did you stop posting? We're still looking for that 1gb os confirmation from sony, we can't find it. Maybe you can help us?
 
LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
op_ivy said:
well, part of the anti-xbone narrative has been that its not a dedicated gaming machine and 3 of 8 gigs of ram dedicated to other things was evidence as such. its entertaining to see the tables turned on such arguments.
Click to expand...

You're misinterpreting the messaging MSFT has had vs their functions in the box.

MSFT presented Xbone as a TVTVTV box from the get go while Sony has been steadfast on the games since the beginning.

In what world do you think anyone here would be upset about multitasking? Keeping this on the PS side since this is a PS4 thread - If you look at Vita, you can see the progression in how good the OS can work with games running and be able to handle multiple functions that not even 360 and PS3 can do. It's not about what you're saying it's about.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
ironcreed said:
Unless of course their plan is to pander to the gamer base straight out of the gate and then shoehorn all of this other shit in down the road.
Click to expand...

playing catchup to MS next-gen confirmed. just like this gen.
 
F

FunkyPajamas

Member
kevm3 said:
I find it very hard to rationalize the information. I fail to see why Sony would add so much RAM, and a relatively expensive type at that to simply add 'snappier' multi-tasking or multi-tasking with numerous apps at the last minute, especially when Cerny said he added it because of the request of a game developer. From a decision making standpoint, it doesn't make sense to add so much GDDR5 ram due to 'listening to developers', only to reserve the vast majority of that for the OS and to give developers perhaps an extra gig to play with.

Sony is betting on the PS4 being a 'games-first' machine this time around and GDDR5 RAM is a significant expense. I doubt Sony would be stupid to incur all of that extra cost for multi-tasking or some OS feature they cooked up over the period of a few months. The average gamer simply doesn't care about that, so the cost to benefit ratio wouldn't be there. The One was designed from the get-go to be a multi-feature box. Sony announced the ram upgrade PRIOR to all of the information being released on the One, so I don't see how they could have doubled the RAM in reaction to obtain OS feature parity with the One.

The video sharing was built into the system before the addition of the extra 4GB of ram, so that being the cause of this speculated OS RAM bloat is out of the question. There is nothing you could possibly add to the system over the period of months that would require the OS to reserve possibly 7 times more RAM. For one, Sony has never been one to build these overly elaborate OS's. Doubling the RAM for OS features you don't even have planned doesn't seem like reasonable decision making to me.

The article says 4.5 gigs of RAM is available for use and that an additional GB 'may' be reclaimed in the form of flex RAM. How is that a 'maybe' when Jonathan Blow already said he was using 5 GB for his game? That completely throws that figure on its head. Also, with the tone Jonathan Blow was using, aka he is 'already using 5 GB for his game' gives me the impression that he has a lot more RAM to still play with. If he was limited to 4.5 GB and a possible extra 1 of flex RAM, he'd be complaining about the PS4 being RAM constrained and being forced to tap into this flex RAM. This issue could easily be resolved by asking Jonathan Blow if he had to use .5 of this flex RAM for his game.
Click to expand...
Well, here's the kicker: A few weeks back there was a comment from a developer saying that they were scratching their heads trying to figure out what to do with the extra ram --> http://www.nextpowerup.com/news/192...on-what-to-do-with-all-the-available-ram.html

My guess is that Sony thought that if developers weren't going to be using all of the 8GB then they might as well put it to some use. So now the OS resembles Home and as the world loads about you, you're able to go into a virtual game store and pick the games with your Home avatar. Want to launch the game? You walk from the store to your virtual gameroom in Home and then put the game into the virtual PS4 and then look for your virtual controller in your gameroom and then boot the virtual console and then select the game and then play it!

Do you want to chat with a friend? You go out into the streets in Home and then yell for your friend until he shows up and then you invite him to your gameroom and then go through the same process. Now, in the virtual Home world, it seems like you guys are sitting in the same virtual couch and playing split screen, but in reality each one of you guys are at home, playing over PSN. It's genius, really!
 
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