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[CrankyJay]

No, it won't. It's way, way too expensive for a Friday show. Hell, the salaries of Noble, Jackson and Torv alone probably would be the same as Dollhouse's first season budget.

Journeyman is a poor example. Not only was Fox doing remarkably better than nBC (thus there was no need for Fox to pick up the show), Journeyman had been bleeding viewers since its premiere and pulled a 1.6 in its penultimate episode. Coupled with the fact that it's a first season show with an unstable fanbase, there was no way Fox was going to pick it up.

Fringe, on the other hand, is made by a production team that NBC actively wants to court, has a stable (if smaller) fanbase that pulls around the same numbers weekly, is highly DVRed due to its ulta-competitive timeslot, and is in lines with many of the numbers that NBC currently is pulling even on Thursday at 9pm.

Obviously I'm not saying that this is a go-to solution or that it's bound to happen, but it wouldn't be a development I'd necessarily be completely blind sided by if it were to happen. Networks don't move shows often, but it happens once in a while, for sure. Look at Medium. And it would have happened to the New Adventures of Old Christine as well as Ghost Whisperer if they had come to a consensus on costs (ABC is probably still pissed about this considering their "exciting" fall lineup). If it's going to happen to any show next spring, it'll probably be with Fringe.

Journeyman was bleeding viewers because it was in a shitty timeslot...10pm on Mondays up against MNF and some cop drama. It was sure to fail, and the worst part is NBC hardly advertised it and didn't even attempt to try it on another night/timeslot.

Furthermore, networks don't give a shit about DVR ratings because advertisers know their commercials will just be fast forwarded through.

 

[TheOMan]

Fringe has been off to an amazing start this season, it really seems to have hit it's stride. Also, now the writers have 2 worlds to play with and I love it, keeps things fresh and new.

I think Peter should be putting together that Atlivia pulled a switch, but based on how the episode ended, he hasn't quite figured it out yet. Olivia ain't gonna be happy about that when she gets back.

Sucks that Newton got offed this episode, he was awesome and I don't think they have another character that we've seen so far that can replace him.

Has anybody seen The Observer recently?

 

[TheOMan]

Walternate's ominous line: "I just have a much bigger lab now."

Confirmation that Waltenate is causing all the blights in the world?

Sweet Fancy Moses, I think you're right. In fact, I think we got a clue about this in that episode where Peter ran on batteries and Walter was trying to steal them...

Impressive. I can see this getting much use.

 

[Freshmaker]

I think Peter should be putting together that Atlivia pulled a switch, but based on how the episode ended, he hasn't quite figured it out yet.

"Olivia, I can't help but notice that you've utterly sucked at your job ever since we got back. Anything wrong?"
"Uh... No. Ravish me!"
"Derp."

Olivia ain't gonna be happy about that when she gets back.

Yeah, that'll totally cause her to put on that face like someone's holding a pungent cheese under her nose for a few minutes.

Sucks that Newton got offed this episode, he was awesome and I don't think they have another character that we've seen so far that can replace him.

Kinda like that "irreplaceable" German guy who teleported... Sour evil guys are dime a dozen.

 

[ivysaur12]

Journeyman was bleeding viewers because it was in a shitty timeslot...10pm on Mondays up against MNF and some cop drama. It was sure to fail, and the worst part is NBC hardly advertised it and didn't even attempt to try it on another night/timeslot.

Furthermore, networks don't give a shit about DVR ratings because advertisers know their commercials will just be fast forwarded through.

It doesn't matter. You can't base your entire notion of "networks don't move shows" off of a show that was pretty much DOA. The circumstances here are completely different. I'm not saying that NBC will pick up Fringe is Fox happens to cancel it (I don't, really). It's just an interesting scenario where a lot of players happen to line up and it could actually be an interesting move for NBC.

And about DVRs...

1) Extremely high DVR usage shows that people like the show, just are watching other things at the same timeslot (like, you know, Grey's, CSI, The Office...). Fringe's DVR shift is extremely high. Move it to a less competetive time slot and people will more likely watch it live. It's shows that there is still a fanbase there that watches the show, even if it's not live. The same (though much less so) with online viewship. Fringe has an extremely high online viewership as well.

2) Networks make advertisers pay for Live+3 views (but not Live+7). So networks do make money off of DVRs, just not nearly as substantially as live viewers. Until they find a way to make it so you can't fast forward through commercials.

 

[Escape Goat]

the problem with these shows where the audience knows something the characters dont is that it eventually wears thin. We know Olivia is a dupe and because we know we can clearly see moments where it should raise suspicion...but no one notices. becomes increasingly frustrating to watch "Oh shes going to get caught...! Oh, nope. Fake out."

 

[Dead]

the problem with these shows where the audience knows something the characters dont is that it eventually wears thin. We know Olivia is a dupe and because we know we can clearly see moments where it should raise suspicion...but no one notices. becomes increasingly frustrating to watch "Oh shes going to get caught...! Oh, nope. Fake out."

I actually kinda agree.

I loved this weeks episode, but I was hoping for the moment where Peter confirms that he knows it isn't the real Olivia...

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I actually kinda agree.

I loved this weeks episode, but I was hoping for the moment where Peter confirms that he knows it isn't the real Olivia...

Now granted, we have only had two episodes of the ruse being played. Now if it goes for twenty episodes, it will get old.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

I know I shouldn't be, but I am consistently stunned by how good this season is. Goddam.

 

[Dead]

I know I shouldn't be, but I am consistently stunned by how good this season is. Goddam.

Yeah, The start of the season has been the weakest point of Fringes first two seasons, but it seems theyve finally found their flow. The new season is on fire so far.

 

[Dan]

the problem with these shows where the audience knows something the characters dont is that it eventually wears thin. We know Olivia is a dupe and because we know we can clearly see moments where it should raise suspicion...but no one notices. becomes increasingly frustrating to watch "Oh shes going to get caught...! Oh, nope. Fake out."

On the bright side,

Spoiler

the preview told us that Olivia returns to our world during November sweeps. So 1-4 episodes from now.

Kinda like that "irreplaceable" German guy who teleported... Sour evil guys are dime a dozen.

All they have to do is hire another European actor and give him a sharp suit. Bam, another sour evil guy.

 

[ThLunarian]

the problem with these shows where the audience knows something the characters dont is that it eventually wears thin. We know Olivia is a dupe and because we know we can clearly see moments where it should raise suspicion...but no one notices. becomes increasingly frustrating to watch "Oh shes going to get caught...! Oh, nope. Fake out."

You say this now, but just wait until we find out in a few weeks that (not a real spoiler, just speculation)

Spoiler

Peter knew about Altolivia the entire time, and has been playing her like a boss.

shyamalantwist.jpg

 

[Escape Goat]

You say this now, but just wait until we find out in a few weeks that (not a real spoiler, just speculation)

Spoiler

Peter knew about Altolivia the entire time, and has been playing her like a boss.

shyamalantwist.jpg

well, i don't think thats going to happen because it seems to be the focus is on Olivia. Walter said "In emulating an emotional response it instead created one." which is what the last scene was attempting to drive home. Olivia has developed real feelings for Peter and now with no one watching over her shoulder she is free to act on them.

I would say your speculation cheapens her ultimate turn of events, whatever those may be.

Either way I hope it doesn't get canceled. My sources from the grocery store are keeping quiet.

 

[ivysaur12]

You say this now, but just wait until we find out in a few weeks that (not a real spoiler, just speculation)

Spoiler

Peter knew about Altolivia the entire time, and has been playing her like a boss.

shyamalantwist.jpg

Nah, then Peter wouldn't have had sex with her.

 

[Zoe]

I don't think she has feelings for Peter yet. She's trying to fake/force them, and that will be her downfall.

 

[Jerk]

I don't think she has feelings for Peter yet. She's trying to fake/force them, and that will be her downfall.

I would actually prefer it if she did not develop any.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I would actually prefer it if she did not develop any.

Seconded.

 

[ThLunarian]

Nah, then Peter wouldn't have had sex with her.

I could see him sleeping with her in the name of keeping up his cover. Don't forget that he used to deal in some shady shit before joining up with the Fringe team, so I'm sure he has it in him. Besides, he is supposed to be super observant and genius-like.

That said, it's pretty unlikely. But if it did turn out to be the case, it wouldn't strike me as out of character, and could lead to some cool things after the cat was out of the bag.

 

[Purkake4]

What's up with Plan 9 From Outer Space playing on the TV in the bar?

 

[WillyFive]

What's up with Plan 9 From Outer Space playing on the TV in the bar?

Probably foreshadowing of some sort. This show does it all the time.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

well, i don't think thats going to happen because it seems to be the focus is on Olivia. Walter said "In emulating an emotional response it instead created one." which is what the last scene was attempting to drive home. Olivia has developed real feelings for Peter and now with no one watching over her shoulder she is free to act on them.

Just how many more "she doesn't want to do that" flags do you need? :lol

her reaction in the cafe, newt pointing out that she's still holding on to some things (like, her boyfriend... ), and probably some more.

She is fullfilling the demands of her mission, not have something as trivial as feelings (they know each other for like, a few days?). The humanity of the shapeshifter is what contrasts the lack of that in altlivia.

 

[Earl Cazone]

I could see him sleeping with her in the name of keeping up his cover. Don't forget that he used to deal in some shady shit before joining up with the Fringe team, so I'm sure he has it in him. Besides, he is supposed to be super observant and genius-like.

That said, it's pretty unlikely. But if it did turn out to be the case, it wouldn't strike me as out of character, and could lead to some cool things after the cat was out of the bag.

maybe, when checking the security cameras, he even saw that bolivia did not really try to find the shapeshifter.

 

[CrankyJay]

maybe, when checking the security cameras, he even saw that bolivia did not really try to find the shapeshifter.

I was waiting for this as well. I'm hoping he is piecing things together off camera for an eventual grand ownage of Altivia.

 

[Escape Goat]

Just how many more "she doesn't want to do that" flags do you need? :lol

her reaction in the cafe, newt pointing out that she's still holding on to some things (like, her boyfriend... ), and probably some more.

She is fullfilling the demands of her mission, not have something as trivial as feelings (they know each other for like, a few days?). The humanity of the shapeshifter is what contrasts the lack of that in altlivia.

Your post is oddly worded so I may not underestand your point. So what was the point of the last scene? Olivia was just horny?

 

[Solo]

Maintaining cover. Other side wants Peter to help them build Doomsday device, which by extension means Olivianate wants Peter to help build the device. Olivianate knows that Peter wants Olivia, so she let that happen to further her cause. Nothing emotional about it from her end.

 

[gdt]

Maintaining cover. Other side wants Peter to help them build Doomsday device, which by extension means Olivianate wants Peter to help build the device. Olivianate knows that Peter wants Olivia, so she let that happen to further her cause. Nothing emotional about it from her end.

Eh, I can quite the the walls breaking down a bit. I don't think she'll fall in love with Peter...but she'll come to appreciate our world. Shocked there hasn't been a scene with her meeting Olivia's sister/niece yet.

 

[Solo]

I think its far more likely that Olivia will gain a measure of compassion for the other side than it is that Olivianate will develop any for our side. Its right there in the characters. Olivianate is cold and ruthless while Olivia has a softer side.

 

[gdt]

I think its far more likely that Olivia will gain a measure of compassion for the other side than it is that Olivianate will develop any for our side. Its right there in the characters. Olivianate is cold and ruthless while Olivia has a softer side.

I don't really see Olivia as cold an ruthless though. Like, at all.

She was greatly hesitant in killing that dude a few weeks ago, for example. I think she's getting quite comfortable in her surrounding (like Newton posited) and that bugs her. I'm truly not reading Altlivia as cold, at all. She's the warm one, rather than Olivia. She's just on the wrong side right now.

She could totally die by the end of this arc though lol. Probably by Olivia's hand.

 

[Jerk]

I don't really see Olivia as cold an ruthless though. Like, at all.

She was greatly hesitant in killing that dude a few weeks ago, for example. I think she's getting quite comfortable in her surrounding (like Newton posited) and that bugs her. I'm truly not reading Altlivia as cold, at all. She's the warm one, rather than Olivia. She's just on the wrong side right now.

She could totally die by the end of this arc though lol. Probably by Olivia's hand.

I completely agree.

I can totally see Olivia pulling this off without nearly as much difficulty as Altlivia is having.

 

[Solo]

I don't really see Olivianate as cold an ruthless though. Like, at all.

She was greatly hesitant in killing that dude a few weeks ago, for example. I think she's getting quite comfortable in her surrounding (like Newton posited) and that bugs her. I'm truly not reading Altlivia as cold, at all. She's the warm one, rather than Olivia. She's just on the wrong side right now.

You don't see her as cold and ruthless? Have you missed ALL her dealing with Newton by chance? She gets downright vicious when dealing with him. Olivia is cold, yes, but more in the detached damaged-goods kind of way. She is cold because her job calls for it and because she has undergone some tragic events. But at her core she is a caring, good person. Whereas Olivianate is cold in the manipulative, I-will-kill-your-ass-if-you-get-in-my-way-motherfucker kind of way, and from everything we know about her from the other side (and her moonlighting on our side), she is brash and cocky and a total hothead.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

You don't see her as cold and ruthless? Have you missed ALL her dealing with Newton by chance? She gets downright vicious when dealing with him. Olivia is cold, yes, but more in the detached damaged-goods kind of way. She is cold because her job calls for it and because she has undergone some tragic events. But at her core she is a caring, good person. Whereas Olivianate is cold in the manipulative, I-will-kill-your-ass-if-you-get-in-my-way-motherfucker kind of way, and from everything we know about her from the other side (and her moonlighting on our side), she is brash and cocky and a total hothead.

Seconded

 

[KevinCow]

Heres hoping Mr. Cab Driver shows up again next episode. The premiere's final shot of him was too ominous not to foreshadow his return.

Remember when they spent like three or four episodes early last season seemingly developing that religious chick to be a major character, then she just vanished and was never referenced again?

 

[Solo]

Remember when they spent like three or four episodes early last season seemingly developing that religious chick to be a major character, then she just vanished and was never referenced again?

I do, but ditching Jessop was the right call, because she sucked. Bubbles on the other hand is a cool cat who Id like to see back.

 

[Jerk]

You don't see her as cold and ruthless? Have you missed ALL her dealing with Newton by chance? She gets downright vicious when dealing with him. Olivia is cold, yes, but more in the detached damaged-goods kind of way. She is cold because her job calls for it and because she has undergone some tragic events. But at her core she is a caring, good person. Whereas Olivianate is cold in the manipulative, I-will-kill-your-ass-if-you-get-in-my-way-motherfucker kind of way, and from everything we know about her from the other side (and her moonlighting on our side), she is brash and cocky and a total hothead.

I think you shortchange her: Altlivia is ruthless because she has to be.

It only seems to be her MO because she is in job-mode 24/7. On the other side, there is little indication to show that she is the cold manipulative bitch that some tar her as.

Also, of course she treats Newton poorly.

There seems to be some resentment on her part for being stranded (because this is effectively what being on our side means for her) and completely cut off from her old life forever. Newton represents this injustice (he is also a loathsome, condescending sob in addition to being a machine).

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Your post is oddly worded so I may not underestand your point. So what was the point of the last scene? Olivia was just horny?

Basically what Solo has posted since this post.

She had to get into a "romantic" relation with Peter, since her mission requires her to do so.

But she doesn't have feelings for him at all. She does for her real boyfriend though.

Spoiler

Who is obviously going to get killed in that outbreak or something like that.

I also think most people in the alternate universe have been specifically made to look cold and distant. Altlivia in particular.
Which all makes sense from their end and technological state though.


The only exception is the small, but tangible attempt at humanizing Charlie in his exchange with Olivia about "turning her into someone she's not".

 

[Escape Goat]

Basically what Solo has posted since this post.

She had to get into a "romantic" relation with Peter, since her mission requires her to do so.

But she doesn't have feelings for him at all. She does for her real boyfriend though.

Spoiler

Who is obviously going to get killed in that outbreak or something like that.

I also think most people in the alternate universe have been specifically made to look cold and distant. Altlivia in particular.
Which all makes sense from their end and technological state though.


The only exception is the small, but tangible attempt at humanizing Charlie in his exchange with Olivia about "turning her into someone she's not".

What was the point of her leaving Peter as they were leaving to go into the bathroom? Seemed to me she was having an emotional moment.

 

[gdt]

You don't see her as cold and ruthless? Have you missed ALL her dealing with Newton by chance? She gets downright vicious when dealing with him. Olivia is cold, yes, but more in the detached damaged-goods kind of way. She is cold because her job calls for it and because she has undergone some tragic events. But at her core she is a caring, good person. Whereas Olivianate is cold in the manipulative, I-will-kill-your-ass-if-you-get-in-my-way-motherfucker kind of way, and from everything we know about her from the other side (and her moonlighting on our side), she is brash and cocky and a total hothead.

She is cold to Newton because she has to be...she want to prove to herself that she can do it..and she tried to prove it to Newton too. It didn't work. He saw through it.

She's essentially trying to be cold and calculated when she's not.

 

[gdt]

What was the point of her leaving Peter as they were leaving to go into the bathroom? Seemed to me she was having an emotional moment.

Exactly. She's kinda hating what she has to do right now.

She's not cold, and she's not evil.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

What was the point of her leaving Peter as they were leaving to go into the bathroom? Seemed to me she was having an emotional moment.

I have to admit I didn't get that one either at first, but after newton's last words, it made a lot of sense.

Basically, her cover requires her to whore herself out to some random bloke she just met the other day. And that while she has a real boyfriend, who she won't see anytime soon.


edit: by "cold", I meant "colder than us", not without any emotion. I shouldn't have to point this out, but here it is just in case.

 

[TheExodu5]

Caught up tonight. Season is fantastic so far.

 

[HeySeuss]

I thought it was pretty obvious why she took time to collect herself in the bathroom considering the conversation Peter just had with her about the couple not having sex yet but they knew that that was the next step. He was making a parallel in their own relationship which she knows but wasn't ready for yet. She's conflicted because she loves her man from the other side but knows that she will have to compromise her morals and integrity to complete her job to save her world.

Then Newton hand holded the audience and connected the dots which was kind of insulting to the audience imo.

But I think Walter will be the one that actually pieces together that its Altlivia. The one scene where she volunteered to go to the Senators office to secure it caused a look by Walter that made him almost say something was not quite right. But it will be quickly dismissed because of Walters LSD use and his head injury which will lead to him regressing and having a mental break.

This show is really getting good.

 

[Flynn77]

I actually think he knows and is playing her, there was a scene in a bar in a previous episode where they danced, and the first thing he did is put his hand on her holstered gun. I also don't think Fringe is a cheesy enough show to do those 'you've almost been discovered lines' as actual serious fake outs, he did it about 3 times this ep and I think it points to the fact that he's gauging here reactions.

 

[Spire]

Altlivia is not pure evil. Newton was but he saw that Altlivia was having trouble going through with the job and without Newton's influence there I think we'll see Altlivia slowly turn.

 

[jax (old)]

We've seen this show for 3 seasons now and in season2n3, we kind of see that our heroes... Have caused great calamities on alter earth which really should make the viewer stop and think "who's good/evil here".... Aside from a couple if incidents, our earth has not suffered the environmental devastation alter world has...

As for this notion of altlivia being evil or not, does it matter? The story has advancednthat far down to the point where we need to consider what the other side is doing, as doing so to save their world. For the most parts, they are just people. I think what might be interesting is if the writers focused season 4 on doing a concurrent season 1 mirror episode of what is happening in that timeline. And then later on in season 5 or 6 bring it together and close the show

What I think is kind of amazing/amusing is this: in all this no one has sat down and thought about doing things peacefully. finding a common solution without the destruction of both worlds or a war. I mean, you'd think that fringe division would have brought in the president if the USA now to discuss massive 2 world crisis, instead of going day to day still.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Kinda like that "irreplaceable" German guy who teleported... Sour evil guys are dime a dozen.

Yeah but... not Sebastian Roche. I was so happy to see him again after Odyssey 5. I hope this isn't the last of him goddamnit.

 

[Yaweee]

Good Live+7 DVR rating numbers:

Fringe, the second biggest gainer last week behind 90210, was No.1 this time, adding 45% to its Live+same delivery and rising to a 2.9 18-49 rating.

Might not matter all that much, but it could help Fringe's chances at another season, or at least FOX's perception of how well it could do in a different time slot.

This is for the second week of the season, as it takes quite a while to get these numbers I guess.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Wow, that is a hell of a gain.

 

[ivysaur12]

Good Live+7 DVR rating numbers:



Might not matter all that much, but it could help Fringe's chances at another season, or at least FOX's perception of how well it could do in a different time slot.

This is for the second week of the season, as it takes quite a while to get these numbers I guess.

It only shows that the audience is there but not watching it live. And as Fox knows, this is most likely due to its heavily competitive time slot.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

We've seen this show for 3 seasons now and in season2n3, we kind of see that our heroes... Have caused great calamities on alter earth which really should make the viewer stop and think "who's good/evil here".... Aside from a couple if incidents, our earth has not suffered the environmental devastation alter world has...

As for this notion of altlivia being evil or not, does it matter? The story has advancednthat far down to the point where we need to consider what the other side is doing, as doing so to save their world. For the most parts, they are just people. I think what might be interesting is if the writers focused season 4 on doing a concurrent season 1 mirror episode of what is happening in that timeline. And then later on in season 5 or 6 bring it together and close the show

What I think is kind of amazing/amusing is this: in all this no one has sat down and thought about doing things peacefully. finding a common solution without the destruction of both worlds or a war. I mean, you'd think that fringe division would have brought in the president if the USA now to discuss massive 2 world crisis, instead of going day to day still.

I wonder though at how much of the incidents happening there are because of the "good" side versus Walternate's efforts to get Peter back going incredibly awry and blaming the other side to drum up support. There are a lot of "Fringe events" taking place there, and that number isn't even close to the number of times someone has moved between the worlds.

 

[Yaweee]

1) Fox is going to be showing reruns of Fringe on Saturdays during Sweeps, late night after the news (11/10c). (taken from FOX's Sweeps Month press release. No episode listing for 8, which is supposed to be before the Christmas hiatus, meaning it is probably going to be the first or second week of December. No episode on Thanksgiving night.

2)

Spoiler

Christopher Llloyd

guest stars in episode 10. He better share some scenes with Walter.

3) The press blurbs for episodes 5 and 7 both sound awesome.