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[CornBurrito]

Not all civil disobedience is created equal.

Yes. And I think there's plenty of reason to criticize this woman besides "she didnt do her job right." I don't think trying to deny other people their rights and happiness is acceptable, regardless of whether or not it is the law.

 

[Krejlooc]

I wish celebrity deathmatch still existed so I could look forward to seeing a clay version of Kim Davis get demolished.

 

[BertramCooper]

I wish celebrity deathmatch still existed so I could look forward to seeing a clay version of Kim Davis get demolished.

I'm sure we'll get something amusing from those Taiwanese animators soon.

 

[crowphoenix]

Jail seems like overkill, if she can't do her job in 2015 America due to beliefs than maybe she doesn't have the right career anymore, but jail just seems to be a bit much here, a firing I understand.

She is held I. Contempt of court. She is released as soon as she does her job, resigns, or is impeached.

 

[Sagroth]

The problem is that Game Analyst is arguing only one particular form of moral relativism: the normative type(with maybe a touch of meta ethical), and insisting that society is moving towards this while also insisting that such is due to moving away from religion. This is, frankly, a dumb argument, especially since more and more folks are becoming intolerant of intolerance, which would not happen in a society full of normative moral relativism. Game Analyst is also implying that the only way to establish moral universalism is through the Christian faith, despite the fact that Christian moral standards have shifted dramatically throughout the centuries(see stance on slavery, multiple differences in translations, church schisms, etc).

Besides, I'd argue that developing a social conscience with a touch of descriptive moral relativism(simply the acknowledgement that morals shift between societies for various reasons) has historically lead to more moral/ethical improvements around the world than Christianity has, regardless of your exact metric(as long as said metric shows results in a real world sense).

 

[Zoe]

Attorney for Davis says the marriage licenses that were issued today are void. this guy....

To be fair, people on both sides are questioning the validity.

Though I'm not sure if the validity will ever be challenged until someone tries to back out of a marriage contract.

 

[EloquentM]

She is held I. Contempt of court. She is released as soon as she does her job, resigns, or is impeached.

It's a joke post

 

[Flo_Evans]

To be fair, people on both sides are questioning the validity.

Though I'm not sure if the validity will ever be challenged until someone tries to back out of a marriage contract.

Yeah if I was gay (or getting married at all) I would just drive to the next county for now until this is finally settled.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Marriage is not a Christian concept. Marriage in the eyes of the state is not equivalent to any sort of religious marriage. These people want a certificate to prove they are together, what the fuck does that have to do with religion?

I respect people of faith but if you are going to have separation of religion and state, you can't be conflate the two. A marriage in the eyes of the stateis not a religious marriage.

Basically.


Great FAQ, tho.

 

[Dai101]

Marriage is not a Christian concept. Marriage in the eyes of the state is not equivalent to any sort of religious marriage. These people want a certificate to prove they are together, what the fuck does that have to do with religion?

I respect people of faith but if you are going to have separation of religion and state, you can't be conflate the two. A marriage in the eyes of the stateis not a religious marriage.

But something something the BIBLE SAYS something something

 

[aspiegamer]

Shes an elected official she has many many bosses.

The legal definition of that is, unfortunately, probably going to get contested. The Judge giving authority to the clerks would probably hold up as "boss" permission but there might be some federal vs state jurisdiction hiccups a random lawyer could wastefully argue on. Who knows how far people might go to have a few gays be un-married temporarily? The Kentucky legislature is going to have to do something, eventually, because this is a shit show for the entire state. It's been suggested they can try to amend Clerk responsibilities statewide to remove marriage certificates from it (if even temporarily to spring her and then resign with a "clear conscience"), though the legislature is not currently in session.

Any technicalities will inevitably be futile, of course.

Carly Fiorina and Lindsey Graham pretty much said the same thing as Trump.

Credit where it's due, I edited my post to reflect this. It's easy enough to make fun of these people so I might as well make a point to not hound them for sane statements.

Yeah if I was gay (or getting married at all) I would just drive to the next county for now until this is finally settled.

That's not really the point, though. They shouldn't have to be told, in their own communities, that they're second-tier citizens and their elected officials are being paid to fuck them over straight to their faces.

 

[Suikoguy]

That's my favorite FAQ OP ever.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Credit where it's due, I edited my post to reflect this. It's easy enough to make fun of these people so I might as well make a point to not hound them for sane statements.

The rest of your post is still very valid though. We have Huckabee and Cruz strongly defending her and other candidates giving non-answers to dodge the issue entirely. And then there's Rand Paul who said we should get rid of marriage licenses entirely when asked about her, haha.

 

[Brashnir]

Since when do we make laws based on god's rules? Only 2 of the 10 commandments are considered law.

Just a small quibble - your overall point stands, but it's 3. Obviously killing and stealing, plus "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" pretty well describes perjury.

 

[Volimar]

Greatest FAQ ever.

 

[rashbeep]

Jail seems a bit much for breaking the law. I mean she broke the law because she was religious, instead of being driven to desperation due to poverty or something.

 

[Par Score]

A side note to those who are defending her because "this wasn't what she signed up for".

If I'm working a job and the boss tells me he'll be expanding my duties to encompass more than I was initially hired to do, I have two options.

1. Do my job

2. Quit

I'm not sure why her religion entitles her to special rights in her job that I don't have.

This is a dangerous and unnecessary road to go down from a labour law perspective.

The more accurate and simpler response is that she had and has the same job, covered by the same oath she took on entering office:

"I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this Commonwealth, and be faithful and true to the Commonwealth of Kentucky so long as I continue a citizen thereof, and that I will faithfully execute, to the best of my ability, the office of County Clerk according to law; and I do further solemnly swear that since the adoption of the present Constitution, I, being a citizen of this State, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this State nor out of it, nor have I sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have I acted as second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending, so help me God."

Her duties remained the same as they ever were, support the US Constitution and faithfully execute her office according to the law.

 

[massoluk]

Attorney for Davis says the marriage licenses that were issued today are void. this guy....

Seriously, this guy doesn't give a shit about what happens to his client, disbar him or something.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

How does impeaching work? Why isn't that looked at as an option rather than martyring her in jail?

 

[Zoe]

How does impeaching work? Why isn't that looked at as an option rather than martyring her in jail?

Can't happen until the state is back in session--which right now isn't until January.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

This is a dangerous and unnecessary road to go down from a labour law perspective.

The more accurate and simpler response is that she had and has the same job, covered by the same oath she took on entering office:

"I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this Commonwealth, and be faithful and true to the Commonwealth of Kentucky so long as I continue a citizen thereof, and that I will faithfully execute, to the best of my ability, the office of County Clerk according to law; and I do further solemnly swear that since the adoption of the present Constitution, I, being a citizen of this State, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this State nor out of it, nor have I sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have I acted as second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending, so help me God."

Her duties remained the same as they ever were, support the US Constitution and faithfully execute her office according to the law.

Kind of interesting that the argument here is that "its the law" and she must follow the law.
especially when we have cities like Denver and others that can sell pot in direct violation of federal law and we don't see anyone getting put in jail for that.

We are a nation of laws and "NO-ONE" should be able to pick and choose which ones to enforce. If you don't like it then get the law changed or step down from your position.

 

[Gotchaye]

Kind of interesting that the argument here is that "its the law" and she must follow the law.
especially when we have cities like Denver and others that can sell pot in direct violation of federal law and we don't see anyone getting put in jail for that.

We are a nation of laws and "NO-ONE" should be able to pick and choose which ones to enforce. If you don't like it then get the law changed or step down from your position.

Of course someone's got to be able to pick and choose which laws to enforce. It takes resources to enforce the law, law enforcement budgets aren't unlimited, and there are diminishing returns such that you can't achieve 100% enforcement. At some point someone's got to make a judgment that it's not worth expending more resources to try to enforce some law when they could be enforcing some other law instead. Often this involves a judgment that it's really just not that important to crack down on some particular illegal activity, especially when the community is fine with it and nobody's getting hurt - it strikes me as pretty reasonable for the federal government not to worry too much about Colorado if Colorado wants to legalize marijuana. The federal government doesn't try very hard to deport many kinds of illegal immigrants, because they're not causing problems. Local prosecutors have a lot of discretion to not charge people for crimes if they don't feel like throwing someone in jail is going to do any good. Even police officers can make case-by-case judgments about whether to arrest someone for some activity, or whether to just tell them to cut it out.

In those cases, nobody's got standing to sue a government official to make them act differently. Nobody's being harmed by the federal government's non-enforcement of certain drug laws in Colorado. So there's never going to be a court order telling the head of the DEA to go in and start arresting people. So nobody's going to get sent to jail over this nonenforcement, because what actually gets you sent to jail is defying a court order.

In the case of this Kentucky clerk, clearly there are people who are harmed by her refusal to issue marriage licenses - people who are applying for marriage licenses and who are being denied. So they can sue. So a judge can issue an order that she's got to issue licenses. When she didn't comply she got sent to jail for not complying.

 

[Citadelofmythoughts]

This is a dangerous and unnecessary road to go down from a labour law perspective.

.

In the US most states have "at will" employment. Meaning you can leave a job or be fired and no one has to give a reason.

 

[Flo_Evans]

That's not really the point, though. They shouldn't have to be told, in their own communities, that they're second-tier citizens and their elected officials are being paid to fuck them over straight to their faces.

Well, obviously.

I'm just saying until this is finally resolved and a new county clerk is in place I wouldn't want to mess around with it.

Bravo to the couple that did and pressed the issue though.

 

[adamsappel]

This is a dangerous and unnecessary road to go down from a labour law perspective.

The more accurate and simpler response is that she had and has the same job, covered by the same oath she took on entering office:

"I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this Commonwealth, and be faithful and true to the Commonwealth of Kentucky so long as I continue a citizen thereof, and that I will faithfully execute, to the best of my ability, the office of County Clerk according to law; and I do further solemnly swear that since the adoption of the present Constitution, I, being a citizen of this State, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this State nor out of it, nor have I sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have I acted as second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending, so help me God."

Her duties remained the same as they ever were, support the US Constitution and faithfully execute her office according to the law.

Which she no doubt placed a hand on the Holy Bible and swore to God to uphold.

 

[Mighty Chin]

Yes. And I think there's plenty of reason to criticize this woman besides "she didnt do her job right." I don't think trying to deny other people their rights and happiness is acceptable, regardless of whether or not it is the law.

She didn't do her job, shit ensued, was ordered to do her job by the law, she didn't do her job again, more shit ensued, the law asked her nicely to do her job again, she refused, law said ok time to go to jail.

 

[FyreWulff]

That definition comes from God himself in the book of Genesis

Nope. Marriage is documented to have existed before the rise of any of the Abrahamic faiths. It was a pre-existing tradition adopted by the religions, not the other way around.

The concept of life partners is also practiced by certain non-ape animals, so while they can't record it in writing permanently, the overall concept is the same.

 

[Zoe]

Well, obviously.

I'm just saying until this is finally resolved and a new county clerk is in place I wouldn't want to mess around with it.

Bravo to the couple that did and pressed the issue though.

Yeah. If you need to get married for some legal purpose, it's in your best interest to not bother with this county. If the statement is important to you and you can afford to wait, then by all means push the issue.

That is part of the reason the governor isn't calling a special session for this. People who have to get married right now have 117 other counties they can drive to.

 

[Aselith]

Can't happen until the state is back in session--which right now isn't until January.

Well, they could call a special session but it doesn't seem like they are interested in hurrying on this.

 

[Koomaster]

How does impeaching work? Why isn't that looked at as an option rather than martyring her in jail?

People really need to stop saying punishing her in any way is making her a martyr. If she was impeached you think her supporters would not still see her as a martyr? Doesn't matter how light or severe her punishment as she would be a martyr to these people. And no punishment at all would be seen as a 'win' for them.

So honestly I'm fine with her being in jail; they will call her a martyr either way so what does it matter just so long as she's being punished.

Thinking about it; impeachment may be seen as worse to her supporters. At least now she has a choice of doing her job or staying in jail. Impeachment would be seen as 'Christians getting fired for beliefs!!!!'

 

[CornBurrito]

She didn't do her job, shit ensued, was ordered to do her job by the law, she didn't do her job again, more shit ensued, the law asked her nicely to do her job again, she refused, law said ok time to go to jail.

Right. But people act like the only immoral thing she did was disobey the law. As if disobeying the law is always 100% wrong. And that which law it was she was disobeying doesn't matter.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

Kind of interesting that the argument here is that "its the law" and she must follow the law.
especially when we have cities like Denver and others that can sell pot in direct violation of federal law and we don't see anyone getting put in jail for that.

We are a nation of laws and "NO-ONE" should be able to pick and choose which ones to enforce. If you don't like it then get the law changed or step down from your position.

State officials are obligated to enforce their own laws, the federal government enforces federal laws.

 

[Brashnir]

This is a dangerous and unnecessary road to go down from a labour law perspective.

The more accurate and simpler response is that she had and has the same job, covered by the same oath she took on entering office:

"I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this Commonwealth, and be faithful and true to the Commonwealth of Kentucky so long as I continue a citizen thereof, and that I will faithfully execute, to the best of my ability, the office of County Clerk according to law; and I do further solemnly swear that since the adoption of the present Constitution, I, being a citizen of this State, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this State nor out of it, nor have I sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have I acted as second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending, so help me God."

Her duties remained the same as they ever were, support the US Constitution and faithfully execute her office according to the law.

The best part of this oath is that fully half of the language used is in reference to dueling.

 

[ReAxion]

The best part of this oath is that fully half of the language used is in reference to dueling.

The way that it's phrased, it's suggesting that's like the 2nd or 3rd draft, because the 1st draft was just the part about not being in a duel, and that wasn't enough.

 

[Kraftwerk]

Sorry if posted already, just saw this.

 

[jmdajr]

incredible

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

That is really, really funny.

 

[Saint Gregory]

This latest trend of bigots invoking MLK and other civil rights pioneers is pretty fascinating.

 

[shem935]

That picture is amazing!

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

That actually is pretty funny.

 

[You Know Nothing]

Oh that is rich on about every level.

 

[mre]

Seriously, this guy doesn't give a shit about what happens to his client, disbar him or something.

I've been reading and rereading this sentence for 10 minutes and still don't understand what your basis is for suggesting her attorney should be disbarred.

 

[Cyan]

You think you're Rosa Parks.

But you're actually George Wallace.

 

[Aselith]

Sure, you guys were oppressed and subjugated for years upon years but one time I had to treat the gays like human beings. It was super annoying, you guys.

 

[Blanquito]

I'm sure we'll get something amusing from those Taiwanese animators soon.

Oh my... I just watched that Tom Brady one and I made it until they used a guiotinne on Brady's balls... now I remember why I don't watch that anymore.

 

[Xcellere]

Sorry if posted already, just saw this.

I think these people have a very tenuous grasp on history.

 

[Stinkles]

Her assertion that this was her personal religious conviction fell apart when she told her clerks they couldn't sign and became laughable when her lawyer went on the first of his many overreaching rants. This is now a political vehicle and I hope the wheels come off quickly.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I think these people have a very tenuous grasp on history.

Bless their little hearts though, because the internet doesn't get much funnier than that picture, and it's completely unironic. I mean, that's gold right there.

 

[Lemaitre]

I think these people have a very tenuous grasp on history.

Tenuous is much too big of a word for this demographic. Talk like a third grader. Trump knows.

 

[dabig2]

You think you're Rosa Parks.

But you're actually George Wallace.

Someone should add him to the pic. Oh yeah, and Keith Bardwell - the judge who had to resign for not doing interracial marriages. In 2009.

Both those guys were persecuted too, and probably have a lot more in common with her as well.