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[Toma]

The tournament post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28130394&postcount=387

Summary:

We already found 4 quarter finalists, and I will be updating the table for the next round later this night, so that the people who are already finished can continue with their next games.
On top of that it seems like the games Moobs-Cramen and Sectus-Infected Zero are also ending/about to end. The remaining matches DrKirby-Hasmedaoa and Yagya-n0b are also on their way, so that it shouldnt take long for us to finish the first round.

Quarter finalists so far (only counting those which already posted the videos):

KZaph
OldGamer
Nabs
archnemesis

Congrats!

Remember that you can check the link for the tournament table and the match replays.

 

[PaulLFC]

Bought this last night. I am terrible at this game, absolutely shocking. Does anyone have any tips for new players? I'm so bad at the moment it isn't even funny (not for me, anyway!)

 

[SteveWinwood]

Man this exploded since yesterday. I didn't know this would be happening so soon!

 

[Toma]

Bought this last night. I am terrible at this game, absolutely shocking. Does anyone have any tips for new players? I'm so bad at the moment it isn't even funny (not for me, anyway!)

The best you can do is watch some replays VERY closely and try to figure out why the players did what they did. Check the tournament post link in post 551. There you'll have all the games we played for the tournament so far. Good stuff.

Other than that, there is a help section ingame with some hints.

Edit:

Probably the best tactical game I can offer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsAdZ5BQG58

 

[Munin]

Make a video, some people here should be able to explain it by now.

Can't do that, I just get a random "YouTube error 5" or something...

Anyway, second time such a thing happened to me now - a grenade that was flying at the beginning of turn did not kill me at the end of simulated turn, but DID kill me at the end of actual outcome.

I don't get it.

 

[PaulLFC]

The best you can do is watch some replays VERY closely and try to figure out why the players did what they did. Check the tournament post link in post 551. There you'll have all the games we played for the tournament so far. Good stuff.

Other than that, there is a help section ingame with some hints.

Edit:

Probably the best tactical game I can offer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsAdZ5BQG58

Thanks!

 

[Toma]

Thanks!

Something else: when analysing these games, try concentrating on one soldier at a time, evaluation where he stands, who can hit him, why he walks in that direction etc.

 

[Sectus]

The 4 matches I did against InfectedZero: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA5qYJXwDrg (I think I made the music volume a bit loud in the video so you might wanna lower the volume)

1st match (won by InfectedZero)
A quick fight. I thought I was being clever with my orders as 2 of my soldiers were waiting 1 second to ambush my opponent and then prepared to ambush from another direction. But things didn't really pan out... this was a ridiculously short match. I'm not completely sure why my second unit lost that firefight but I'm assuming it's because he had worse cover.

2nd match (won by Sectus)
I think my opponent forgot to do his very first turn here, which gave me an advantage. Nothing specific to say in this match, just some good old grenade bouncing.

3rd match (draw)
I started with a gigantic advantage as 3 of my units are in good position to ambush 3 of my opponent's units. Despite my advantage, my opponent manages to even the odds after the first turn, and shortly later I'm the one with less units. At which point I decide to be insanely cowardly and hide for rest of the match.

4th match (won by InfectedZero)
I tried to be extremely careful in this match. Most of my unit orders were to defend half of the turn, and then spend the rest of the turn to defend another position or to prepare for advancing on the opponent. My timing ended up being a bit bad, and when the bloodbath started it was quickly over. I think I did a huge mistake by moving all my units to the middle, I should have had 1 or 2 moving around so I could scout. I literally only saw one enemy unit once before the bloodbath began.

 

[Toma]

The 4 matches I did against InfectedZero: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA5qYJXwDrg (I think I made the music volume a bit loud in the video so you might wanna lower the volume)

You dont have them separated I guess? You are destroying my tourney table layout

If you dont, no problem, but asking doesnt hurt

 

[KPJZKC]

The 4 matches I did against InfectedZero: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA5qYJXwDrg (I think I made the music volume a bit loud in the video so you might wanna lower the volume)

1st match (won by InfectedZero)
A quick fight. I thought I was being clever with my orders as 2 of my soldiers were waiting 1 second to ambush my opponent and then prepared to ambush from another direction. But things didn't really pan out... this was a ridiculously short match. I'm not completely sure why my second unit lost that firefight but I'm assuming it's because he had worse cover.

2nd match (won by Sectus)
I think my opponent forgot to do his very first turn here, which gave me an advantage. Nothing specific to say in this match, just some good old grenade bouncing.

3rd match (draw)
I started with a gigantic advantage as 3 of my units are in good position to ambush 3 of my opponent's units. Despite my advantage, my opponent manages to even the odds after the first turn, and shortly later I'm the one with less units. At which point I decide to be insanely cowardly and hide for rest of the match.

4th match (won by InfectedZero)
I tried to be extremely careful in this match. Most of my unit orders were to defend half of the turn, and then spend the rest of the turn to defend another position or to prepare for advancing on the opponent. My timing ended up being a bit bad, and when the bloodbath started it was quickly over. I think I did a huge mistake by moving all my units to the middle, I should have had 1 or 2 moving around so I could scout. I literally only saw one enemy unit once before the bloodbath began.

Had you not crouched the gunner in the corner the outcome could have been very very different - that gave him a penalty. Also, I've seen nothing to imply that crouching has ANY benefits other than making you invisible behind cover, and I'm not the only one who thinks this...keep it in mind...

 

[Toma]

Had you not crouched the gunner in the corner the outcome could have been very very different - that gave him a penalty. Also, I've seen nothing to imply that crouching has ANY benefits other than making you invisible behind cover, and I'm not the only one who thinks this...keep it in mind...

True, there is no other advantage to it, but it doesnt give him a penalty if he is crouching I thought.

 

[Sectus]

Had you not crouched the gunner in the corner the outcome could have been very very different - that gave him a penalty. Also, I've seen nothing to imply that crouching has ANY benefits other than making you invisible behind cover, and I'm not the only one who thinks this...keep it in mind...

I could swear I had a firefight in another match where 2 soldiers were approaching eachother at the same time, but the other was crouching and won. That made me assume there's an aim advantage to it (or maybe it's the FPS guy in me thinking like that, since almost very FPS gives a small accuracy boost when croching). I'll keep that mind, because it's a mistake I've been doing quite often.

There are some other obvious mistakes I did during the matches (not scouting in last match. wasting my rocket by shooting at a super predicable spot in 3rd match), but hopefully I can redeem myself in a future tourney. I think I was generally too defensive as well.

You dont have them separated I guess? You are destroying my tourney table layout

If you dont, no problem, but asking doesnt hurt

I only have them like that. I suppose I could upload them separately too if you want. I just thought it'd be best to have them all in a single video since I was recording them manually anyway.

 

[Toma]

I could swear I had a firefight in another match where 2 soldiers were approaching eachother at the same time, but the other was crouching and won. That made me assume there's an aim advantage to it (or maybe it's the FPS guy in me thinking like that, since almost very FPS gives a small accuracy boost when croching). I'll keep that mind, because it's a mistake I've been doing quite often.

I think there is NO advantage or disadvantage to it. Its just relying on all other factors. Someone should go dig in their forums for that.

I only have them like that. I suppose I could upload them separately too if you want. I just thought it'd be best to have them all in a single video since I was recording them manually anyway.

Nah its fine. The tournament table needs to deal with it then

 

[BurritoBushido]

is there a hotkey list somewhere?

 

[Drkirby]

Just finished my set of matches, 2-1 with me winning. We will get the youtube videos up later today:
(SteveWinwood is Hasmedaoa)

(Last game gave Steve a pretty bad set up)

 

[Unicorn]

is there a hotkey list somewhere?

d = duck
spacebar = preview play

I know there's a way to tab through units, but forgot if it was tab or some other keys.

 

[SteveWinwood]

(Last game gave Steve a pretty bad set up)

Psh, my fault for leaving all of them together to get blown up!
Youtube videos up.
Game 1: http://youtu.be/RWchh7WMnxs
Game 2: http://youtu.be/N7BM-Uh4wo4
Game 3: http://youtu.be/TA1qkxFMqAE

 

[Toma]

Psh, my fault for leaving all of them together to get blown up!
Youtube videos up.
Game 1: http://youtu.be/RWchh7WMnxs
Game 2: http://youtu.be/N7BM-Uh4wo4
Game 3: http://youtu.be/TA1qkxFMqAE

Thanks, updated.
Very, very smart first shot with the rocket launcher in Game 1 btw. Nice.

And after researching a bit I've got a quiz for you! Please dont look it up. Let others guess for a few posts. We can learn out of stuff like this.

What do you think who has cover advantage and why?
http://i52.tinypic.com/2vdpv1f.jpg

 

[InfectedZero]

I say green cause he is hugging the cover.

 

[Fitz]

d = duck
spacebar = preview play

I know there's a way to tab through units, but forgot if it was tab or some other keys.

So far what I've noticed as far as bindings go is that you can use middle mouse button/mouse wheel button to cycle through the currently selected teams units, and you can use the number keys to select a unit directly.

 

[ZZMitch]

This game looks really interesting.

I have been seeing a lot of really cool indie games lately, feels good man

 

[Toma]

I say green cause he is hugging the cover.

I just noticed something. And sorry for misleading if its wrong in the end. But really guys, we need to get hard facts about these systems.
The stupid thing is.. I got an explanation from the developer but I am not sure how.. recent he made any changes to that system.

What originally was said about it was that both have the same cover advantage because they'll claim the nearest cover if its less than a third of the distance to the opponent away.

This thread.

But here is some recent FAQ from their forums:

The rules why a unit wins/loses are very simple. They are:

1. How much is the unit in cover?
(behind halfheight obstacles: those windows & boxes)
Corners do not give cover. Only windows & boxes do.

2. Did the unit recently duck or stand up?
(doing this puts you at a disadvantage for a short moment)

3. Is the unit standing still (advantage) or moving (disadvantage)?

4. Is the unit aiming?

The priorities are in the above order. So cover is more important than
stillness, while stillness is more important than aiming. Notice that
ducking does not give you an advantage, but actually puts you at a
disadvantage for a short moment (while ducking down or standing up).

It doesn't matter where the gun of a unit is pointing. "If you can see him,
you can kill him". A unit can attack anyone in it's field of view instantly
without any "turning penalty": So, you don't need to tell your units where
to shoot, only in which overall direction (FOV) they should look.

So crouching doesnt give a disadvantage, only when getting down to crouch or when standing up.
And its also nice to know that corners dont give an advantage.

Seemingly, it also doesnt make a difference whether you are directly pointing at an enemy already or whether he needs to adjust slightly.

But nowhere anything mentioned about the distance to the cover, and how it affects a firefight if both have cover at different distances.

Edit:
What I find interesting though, is that there seemingly was a feature which allowed you to see exactly which cover bonusses a soldier has in the replays. They took it out for the release of the game, maybe it will get patched in later again. Would certainly be helpful.

 

[Unicorn]

Eurogamer is the only outlet to review this?

WTF

 

[Toma]

And here are the key bindings I found in the readme:

Cursor Keys = Scroll the map
M and K = Zoom
Space = Play/Pause
Backspace = Remove waypoints/Orders from last to first
"=" = remove the last 10 waypoints on a plan
Delete = Remove selected order
D = Duck
S = Stand
C = Continue on Sight
E = Engage on sight
X = Cancel Aim
Hold V = Test visibility
Tab = Cycle through your units
1-9 = Select one of your units by its number

Eurogamer is the only outlet to review this?

WTF

Be glad Eurogamer did. Not all Indie Games get a place in the sun.
It surely deserves it though.

 

[ZZMitch]

I just got this game, thanks to Chixdiggit! Name is ZZMitch

Does the server I choose designate who I can play against? Which one is GAF on?

 

[Toma]

I just got this game, thanks to Chixdiggit! Name is ZZMitch

Does the server I choose designate who I can play against? Which one is GAF on?

Yup, but you can always change if you dont mind starting different win/lose statistics later.
Most of us are on UK2.

 

[ZZMitch]

Yup, but you can always change if you dont mind starting different win/lose statistics later.
Most of us are on UK2.

Alright thanks!

 

[PuppetSlave]

Been playing the singel player campaign and finding it pretty tough.

Is there any point in setting it to aim after moving against where I think the enemy will show up? Or is it better to just walk that way and give the shoot at sight order?

 

[Toma]

Alright thanks!

Also if you add us as friends in the game you can see in the playerlist ingame when we are online because all of your "friends" are shown on top.

 

[Drkirby]

Eurogamer is the only outlet to review this?

WTF

Well, the fact the game sold so well, I would say we are officially at the point where reviews don't mean shit in terms of exposure.

 

[Toma]

Been playing the singel player campaign and finding it pretty tough.

Is there any point in setting it to aim after moving against where I think the enemy will show up? Or is it better to just walk that way and give the shoot at sight order?

Depends. Its a bit tricky to explain actually.

Short version:
The shotgunner can run in and shoot basically anything if its within its reach. Make sure an MG dude cant put him out before he is in reach.
For all other soldiers, I wouldnt recommend walking straight in to shoot because walking puts them at a serious disadvantage (you wont have a cover by walking straight towards an enemy AND you are moving = you are dead if he didnt do the same)
By aiming after walking you gain precious milliseconds where your soldier might arrive at his position earlier. Then he stands still and if someone comes into your view, HE was walking, not you, putting him at the disadvantage.

Sorry if that was a bit confusing. Its best to try these things by simulating with the unseen soldiers in a match I'd say.

 

[BurritoBushido]

And here are the key bindings I found in the readme:

Cursor Keys = Scroll the map
M and K = Zoom
Space = Play/Pause
Backspace = Remove waypoints/Orders from last to first
"=" = remove the last 10 waypoints on a plan
Delete = Remove selected order
D = Duck
S = Stand
C = Continue on Sight
E = Engage on sight
X = Cancel Aim
Hold V = Test visibility
Tab = Cycle through your units
1-9 = Select one of your units by its number


Be glad Eurogamer did. Not all Indie Games get a place in the sun.
It surely deserves it though.

TEST VISIBILITY!?!?! That seems IMPORTANT!

 

[Moobabe]

Eurogamer is the only outlet to review this?

WTF

Depends what you mean by 'outlet' - rock, paper, shotgun have given this good coverage and *ahem* my site is in the process of covering it as well. Also Giantbomb has a quick look somewhere.

 

[PuppetSlave]

Depends. Its a bit tricky to explain actually.

Short version:
The shotgunner can run in and shoot basically anything if its within its reach. Make sure an MG dude cant put him out before he is in reach.
For all other soldiers, I wouldnt recommend walking straight in to shoot because walking puts them at a serious disadvantage (you wont have a cover by walking straight towards an enemy AND you are moving = you are dead if he didnt do the same)
By aiming after walking you gain precious milliseconds where your soldier might arrive at his position earlier. Then he stands still and if someone comes into your view, HE was walking, not you, putting him at the disadvantage.

Sorry if that was a bit confusing. Its best to try these things by simulating with the unseen soldiers in a match I'd say.

Thanks, no I think I get what you are saying, it makes sense. This game is pretty deep tactics wise.

 

[Toma]

TEST VISIBILITY!?!?! That seems IMPORTANT!

Yup, it is but you can mimick the function a bit. Got to know about it after I played it for 12 hours already, though.

Its a useful function, but I find myself just using the line you get when adjusting the aim if I want to find out whether I can still look into an area.

 

[chixdiggit]

Did a couple campaign missions and really liking it so far. This game really needs a demo to lure in the masses.

 

[Toma]

Did a couple campaign missions and really liking it so far. This game really needs a demo to lure in the masses.

Wouldnt be that hard as well. Just make it the first 10 missions without the multiplayer and you are good to go.

 

[epmode]

This is probably a stupid question but can shotguns fire over cover? I've had many instances where my guy will obviously see someone beyond a window/table since I can see him twitching as though he WANTED to fire but the other guy turns, aims and fires several rounds of his assault rifle before I can get a shot off. I don't *think* it's a range issue but I'd like to be sure.

Speaking of which, is there a range beyond which a character simply won't fire? I know there are accuracy penalties...

 

[Sinatar]

This is probably a stupid question but can shotguns fire over cover? I've had many instances where my guy will obviously see someone beyond a window/table since I can see him twitching as though he WANTED to fire but the other guy turns, aims and fires several rounds of his assault rifle before I can get a shot off. I don't *think* it's a range issue but I'd like to be sure.

Speaking of which, is there a range beyond which a character simply won't fire? I know there are accuracy penalties...

Yea there are ranges where shotguns straight up won't fire. Machineguns might be the case, but I've seen them pop off rounds at seemingly full screen distance.

As to why you shotty got taken out? When you have a character move and then fire, they will almost always lose if trying to take out someone stationary.

 

[Toma]

Yea there are ranges where shotguns straight up won't fire. Machineguns might be the case, but I've seen them pop off rounds at seemingly full screen distance.

As to why you shotty got taken out? When you have a character move and then fire, they will almost always lose if trying to take out someone stationary.

Yup, MG's can basically hit anything across the level, they just need to see it, and the farther they are away, the longer it takes to kill. I would LOVE to have a measurement for the shotgunners though, to tell me how far they can shoot. A circle you can toggle on or off showing the reach would be optimal.

 

[Sinatar]

Yup, MG's can basically hit anything across the level, they just need to see it, and the farther they are away, the longer it takes to kill. I would LOVE to have a measurement for the shotgunners though, to tell me how far they can shoot. A circle you can toggle on or off showing the reach would be optimal.

That would be awesome, I mean they show grenade bounce trajectory so why not.

 

[blazinglazers]

So are all you dudes playing on UK2? I'm gonna hop on now if anyone wants to start some matchesss*.




*I've gotta work today too :/ so they'll be the drawn-out long-play kind...

 

[Toma]

So are all you dudes playing on UK2? I'm gonna hop on now if anyone wants to start some matchesss*.




*I've gotta work today too :/ so they'll be the drawn-out long-play kind...

I'll be on for one game.* Hit me up. TomaLexi is the name.

*need to work as well**

** dont we have awesome jobs?

 

[blazinglazers]

I'll be on for one game.* Hit me up. TomaLexi is the name.

*need to work as well**

** dont we have awesome jobs?

Lets hear it for awesome jobs!

Spoiler

Prepare to DIE!

 

[Toma]

Lets hear it for awesome jobs!

Spoiler

Prepare to DIE!

So, who was dying now?

 

[blazinglazers]

So, who was dying now?

I'm ascending to shapeform heaven...

 

[KPJZKC]

So crouching doesnt give a disadvantage, only when getting down to crouch or when standing up.
And its also nice to know that corners dont give an advantage.

I specified this earlier on in the thread with NIN90, standing or crouching applies a 0.5 second long penalty to aiming - but aside from making you invisible behind cover, crouching offers no outright advantes (when I started I often crouched my units, but it's tantamount to making them kill themselves if they do it at the wrong time!)

 

[Toma]

Nice. There was a small update just now. You can let the soldiers now focus on a zone. No idea what else it does though.

 

[Unicorn]

I specified this earlier on in the thread with NIN90, standing or crouching applies a 0.5 second long penalty to aiming - but aside from making you invisible behind cover, crouching offers no outright advantes (when I started I often crouched my units, but it's tantamount to making them kill themselves if they do it at the wrong time!)

Just had a match where I had a guy crouch behind low cover for a couple rounds, the enemy couldn't see him, so moved right by him. Next turn I stood up and killed 2 of his guys.

 

[Toma]

Just had a match where I had a guy crouch behind low cover for a couple rounds, the enemy couldn't see him, so moved right by him. Next turn I stood up and killed 2 of his guys.

Yup, its a tactical element that can have some advantages. You just need to be careful when using it. Ducking itself can be mighty helpful, especially when you dont want the enemy to know where you are. This is a big advantage in itself.