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[Enron]

This.

Lost all sympathy when he released activity on foreign targets. Fuck him.

He might have started out exposing gov't surveillance of its own citizens, but he also crossed the line in handing out intelligence secrets to foreign powers and targets that will no doubt have a large effect on intelligence gathering. But everyone wants to wave that off because he shined a light on the gov't collecting your calls and email.

So I guess treason is ok.

 

[Volimar]

I just want to see him given a fair trial. I think he broke the law and deserves punishment, but if he goes to trial and gets off so be it.

This. I think he had better channels if he wanted to be a whistle blower. He made it worse when he ran off and became part of Putin's propaganda apparatus. I would definitely enjoy seeing the discussions that shake loose during his trial.

 

[nib95]

Snowden deserves a medal of honour, since he took the security and rights of the people above the insane bureaucrats.

I lose faith in humanity for each time a whistle blower gets sentenced as traitor, when they are exposing evil doings done against innocents.

He's a hero.

Agreed.

 

[Oersted]

What makes anyone think he wont get a fair trial. What are you basing that off of. Will he have a defense, be judged by a jury of his peers? Have constitutional protections on illegally seized evidence.

I mean they can literally play his public comments and convict him.



Why would it? Its a legal court established by congress

You might have missed it, but in the last 14 years almost everything has been done to undermine trust in the legal system, especially regarding "war on terror".

He might have started out exposing gov't surveillance of its own citizens, but he also crossed the line in handing out intelligence secrets to foreign powers and targets that will no doubt have a large effect on intelligence gathering. But everyone wants to wave that off because he shined a light on the gov't collecting your calls and email.

So I guess treason is ok.

He didn't.

Spoiler

Stop living up to your username.

 

[aerts1js]

Fair trail ?

you sir snowden are a fucking coward traitor and deserve nothing.

I'm pretty sure everyone deserved a fair trial.

 

[TheOMan]

He's never coming home. Because if he does, he's going away for a very very long time fair trial or not after exposing not only government data collection on its own citizens, but foreign high-value/gov't targets as well. And you cannot tell me he didn't trade even more damaging info for his asylum in Russia. If he comes home, his life is over.

Pretty much. He must know this though and must have known this before he left and decided to go for it, so he obviously thought about it. Maybe he didn't plan ahead as far as I think?

I guess there's no other place that wants to raise the ire of the USA by taking Snowden in. I think he's hooped.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Russia can keep him.

 

[dark_chris]

Fair trail ?

you sir snowden are a fucking coward traitor and deserve nothing.

You sir, are an idiot. NSA is that you?
He deserves a medal for the wrongdoings the country has been doing to others and horrible secrets. It exposed what needed to be known.

 

[exmachina64]

At what point do we saying breaking the law to prove the government did something wrong is ok?

It is always okay.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

He will get not never get a fair trail here. The administration and NSA will crucify him for making them look bad.

Watch Citzensfour. Great Documentary.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

You might have missed it, but in the last 14 years almost everything has been done to undermine trust in the legal system, especially regarding "war on terror".

Examples that are relevant to snowden?

 

[SliceSabre]

He might have started out exposing gov't surveillance of its own citizens, but he also crossed the line in handing out intelligence secrets to foreign powers and targets that will no doubt have a large effect on intelligence gathering. But everyone wants to wave that off because he shined a light on the gov't collecting your calls and email.

So I guess treason is ok.

That's my biggest issue. What purpose did telling all those countries that we spied on their leaders/agencies serve? Sure it is something all nations assume they do to each other but its different when there is proof of it. There is no greater good or purpose served here.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Fair trail ?

you sir snowden are a fucking coward traitor and deserve nothing.

I know you're banned, but next time someone comes at you with bad news that isn't their fault, make sure you wish upon them great harm and ill will instead of actually focusing on what they told you and who is actually doing it. Don't Shoot the Messenger doesn't mean shit to people like you and it's quite pathetic.

 

[Crayons]

Fair trail ?

you sir snowden are a fucking coward traitor and deserve nothing.

lol bye fascist

 

[Enron]

He didn't.

Spoiler

Stop living up to your username.

Uh, the latest batch of Snowden leaks this year were almost ALL about NSA foreign intelligence gathering methods.

 

[block tower]

He broke the law to expose wrongdoing on an enormous and terrifying scale. He should be given a medal.

.

 

[Blader]

That's my biggest issue. What purpose did telling all those countries that we spied on their leaders/agencies serve? Sure it is something all nations assume they do to each other but its different when there is proof of it. There is no greater good or purpose served here.

The purpose of highlighting wrongdoing is to highlight wrongdoing.

 

[Oersted]

Examples that are relevant to snowden?

Shouldn't you prove that constant denial of fair trials is not relevant, esp not relevant for why people think this way, which was your question?

 

[ShinRPGamer]

Fair trail ?

you sir snowden are a fucking coward traitor and deserve nothing.

A ban well deserved.

I don't see Snowden ever getting a fair trial in America which is a shame. NSA will do everything in thier power to make sure he rots in a prison cell.

 

[Enron]

The purpose of highlighting wrongdoing is to highlight wrongdoing.

So spying on foreign targets should be treated the same as domestic spying? Is this where we are going with this now? God.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Shouldn't you prove that constant denial of fair trials is not relevant, esp not relevant for why people think this way, which was your question?

So none.

I don't think there as been a giant dearth of fair trails on national security matters. I don't think people are being convicted of crimes they didn't commit. The opposition seems to be that he's not going to be forgiven for actual crimes because people don't want them to be crimes.

That doesn't seem to be concern with a fair trial but concern that a fair trail will convict him of crimes he's admitted to.

 

[SliceSabre]

The purpose of highlighting wrongdoing is to highlight wrongdoing.

And what was gained? Absolutely nothing beyond making agreements with these countries harder in the future because they can claim how the US was spying on them while they pretend they weren't doing the same.

Like seriously. You applaud telling China the US was/is spying on them and when it is a horribly kept secret China is constantly stealing info from the United States?

 

[linsivvi]

Remember Obama said this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uF_Cyqls8vU#t=29

Too bad he wasn't given the Giuliani treatment.

 

[pgtl_10]

Unlike most of GAF, I think he just wants to see his family. GAF is so anti-Russian its hilarious.

 

[crazepharmacist]

Even if given a fair trial, there are no laws protecting government whistle blowers so he's screwed either way, no?

 

[ISOM]

Unlike most of GAF, I think he just wants to see his family. GAF is so anti-Russian its hilarious.

You may not know this but Russia deserves the hate.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Promised a fair trial, mysteriously, plane goes missing on way home.

 

[Discotheque]

fair trial or not there's no way this man wouldn't see a jail cell (or worse) after all is said and done.

 

[Enron]

Unlike most of GAF, I think he just wants to see his family. GAF is so anti-Russian its hilarious.

Pretty sure this has everything to do with hating/heroworshipping snowden, and less to do with Russia. It just happens to be where he ran to.

Promised a fair trial, mysteriously, plane goes missing on way home.

Why kill him? The damage has already been done.

 

[Stinkles]

Fair trail ?

you sir snowden are a fucking coward traitor and deserve nothing.

I don't have fond feelings for Snowden as aperson, but he should have a fair trial almost above anyone else - we need to show that our system of justice is good and fair and the country needs to have a longer conversation about the materials he leaked, which are more important than any vain little shit who leaked them. Regardless of what I think of Snowden, I think a lot less of the people in power who were exposed by his actions.

 

[dave is ok]

What makes anyone think he wont get a fair trial. What are you basing that off of. Will he have a defense, be judged by a jury of his peers? Have constitutional protections on illegally seized evidence.

There isn't a whistleblower or public interest exception under the Espionage Act.

He can't defend himself. Any motive or intent of his actions is inadmissable.

 

[slit]

He'll never get a fair trial, especially with American citizens who refuse to see him as a whistleblower instead of a troublemaker.

Which is one of the reason why the gov't can get away with most anything it wants.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

Remember Obama said this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uF_Cyqls8vU#t=29

Too bad he wasn't given the Giuliani treatment.

Remember Obama defend the surveillance programs to begin with and reversed restrictions on the NSA in 2011.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

There isn't a whistleblower or public interest exception under the Espionage Act.

He can't defend himself. Any motive or intent of his actions is inadmissable.

And this interferes with a fair trial? Again the problem isn't that he won't get a fair trial its that his conduct was illegal and people don't want it to be illegal.

 

[Suite Pee]

Title should be changed. He's a whistleblower, not a spy.

 

[ChaosXVI]

I don't know...if I were him, I wouldn't want to come back to America ever...even all the guarantees in the world won't protect you once you get here and suddenly you mysterously walk off a bridge or something.

Seriously, he's safer in Russia. That statement should fully express how fucked he is.

I'm still unsure of how I feel about him, I've gone back and forth on it several times with myself and in debates with friends.

 

[dave is ok]

And this interferes with a fair trial?

His primary motivation for releasing the documents was as a whistleblower. If the statute he is being charged under means he is ineligible for whistleblower protections, what possible defense could he use?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I don't know...if I were him, I wouldn't want to come back to America ever...even all the guarantees in the world won't protect you once you get here and suddenly you mysterously walk off a bridge or something.

Seriously, he's safer in Russia. That statement should fully express how fucked he is.

I'm still unsure of how I feel about him, I've gone back and forth on it several times with myself and in debates with friends.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1000868&highlight=

His primary motivation for releasing the documents was as a whistleblower. If the statute he is being charged under means he is ineligible for whistleblower protections, what possible defense could he use?

He's being charged under that statute because that's the law he broke.

You can't just say I don't want to be chanrged under that law because that wasn't my motive. That's silly. There's no fear of not having a fair trial for the crimes he's accused of. He just doesn't want to be accused of crimes he admitted to. Which I would say isn't a very fair method of court procedure.

 

[D4Danger]

the best time to return home would be during a presidential election.

who is going to vote for the person who stands up and says they don't care about your privacy/rights/freedom etc?

Title should be changed. He's a whistleblower, not a spy.

he was a spy for the US.

 

[GravityMan]

Zero percent chance he gets a fair trial. He will be captured and locked up the instant he steps foot on U.S. soil. And most Americans view him as a traitor. Since he wants to get out of Russia, his best opportunity is to seek asylum in a different country...but I doubt that any decent country will take him.

Snowden's options are quite limited.

He exposed some really messed-up things that the NSA is doing, but treason is treason.

 

[Blader]

And what was gained? Absolutely nothing beyond making agreements with these countries harder in the future because they can claim how the US was spying on them while they pretend they weren't doing the same.

Like seriously. You applaud telling China the US was/is spying on them and when it is a horribly kept secret China is constantly stealing info from the United States?

We can only expose illegal government practices so long as it doesn't impede our government's ability to function in the process? What are you even arguing for? I literally cannot parse your counterargument beyond that whistleblowing should only be allowed if it doesn't make things harder for the federal govt., which, if that's the case, is ridiculous.

If a Chinese national released documents proving that Beijing has Obama's Blackberry tapped, would you be railing against them in the same way?

 

[WalkMan]

This.

Lost all sympathy when he released activity on foreign targets. Fuck him.

You can't put that on him though. He took thousands of docs then figured out what he took after the docs were exfiltrated.

 

[M0nochromatic]

Mad props to any whistleblowers. Revealing corruption and illegal activity in a government area takes a lot of courage. He won't ever get to come back here on fair terms as long as those he exposed are in charge. Maybe in another 5-10 years.

 

[dave is ok]

He's being charged under that statute because that's the law he broke.

You can't just say I don't want to be chanrged under that law because that wasn't my motive. That's silly. There's no fear of not having a fair trial for the crimes he's accused of. He just doesn't want to be accused of crimes he admitted to. Which I would say isn't a very fair method of court procedure.

Yeah, no.

The Espionage Act of 1917 isn't some "law he broke" its a very broad statute that has almost never been used

 

[slit]

Zero percent chance he gets a fair trial. He will be captured and locked up the instant he steps foot on U.S. soil. And most Americans view him as a traitor. Since he wants to get out of Russia, his best opportunity is to seek asylum in a different country...but I doubt that any decent country will take him.

Snowden's options are quite limited.

He exposed some really messed-up things that the NSA is doing, but treason is treason.

No they don't

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1919

.....and even if the numbers are from 2013, I doubt it's changed to majority of Americans.

 

[The Leviathan]

While I prefer he gets a fair trail,you just know the government is going to hang him out to dry and make a extreme example out of him.

 

[Zero Hero]

There isn't a whistleblower or public interest exception under the Espionage Act.

He can't defend himself. Any motive or intent of his actions is inadmissable.

Yup. There would be a sentencing but there won't be a trial because he has no defense. He is guilty under the Espionage Act.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Snowden is a patriot, but he's a fool to believe this administration will go easy on him.

 

[davepoobond]

If I were to guess he is now willing to essentially sacrifice himself to bring more attention back on his information that he was leaking in the midst of all the new conflicts that arose since he left.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Like, if I was him, I'd want to go to a country that has an extradition agreement with the US, but I'd be nervous to be back here. Not necessarily because the government, but rather because of some nut who watches the news and gets a warped idea to kill you. I'd go hang out in Austria or something.