"Here sign this paper promising you won't whistleblow on us"
How convenient.
Do you have proof that he took the job with the intent to leak information? Did I miss something?
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Fugitive ex-U.S. spy Snowden in talks on returning home: lawyer
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"Here sign this paper promising you won't whistleblow on us"
How convenient.
Do you have proof that he took the job with the intent to leak information? Did I miss something?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yup, creeps will continue to exist with or without the USAs help. And yeah, cops continue to suck. Thanks for those links.
I believe Snowden (or the journalist who was representing him at the time) said so himself.
The thing is, I'm sure the data they collect is of great use in other areas. It seems obvious that the system they have in place is not just for terrorism. They are not spending all that money collecting data and building huge data facilities just for terrorism.
If you remember, one of the documents was about spying on Petrobras. Basically industrial espionage. That's why they are so intent on collecting and storing everything; because there are other areas of interest where having that data is potentially of great use and value.
What about violating a federal oath of office? I mean, this wasn't some "employment contract", it read very similarly to the shit elected officials read when being sworn in.
benjipwns
Banned
Politicians violate their oaths all the time, they aren't hauled in for treason.
Because treason is specifically defined in the Constitution, the only such crime. To quote Article Three, Section 3, emphasis mine:
Snowden was not levying war, so that's out. (The Supreme Court has also ruled that one person cannot "levy" War against the United States but instead men must assemble.)
And the second part requires you to define the "Enemies" and the only way that fits Snowden's case is if the "Enemies" are the citizens of the United States.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
Before Snowden, everyone called people who said the government was spying on us tinfoil hat wearing conspirators. The fact that it's still ongoing and hasn't been dismantled is a travesty.
Hear, hear.
benjipwns
Banned
Yeah, but on the upside we get this out of it:
To go with their already not in any way creepy HQ:
Just found this out about their HQ:
he'd be the second Manning the instant he sets a foot out of Russia. There's absolutely no guarantee that he'd be pardoned (fair trial or not) and if I were him, I'd rather live "free" in a semi-dicatorship than spend the rest of my life in a US prison
disappeared
Banned
God forbid I ever have kids, but these next few years of Snowden's life and times will be a very interesting story to tell them when they're old enough.
"Now I'll tell you kids the story of the man who pulled back the curtain..."
"Now I'll tell you kids the story of the man who pulled back the curtain..."
HammerOfThor
Member
Did he get injured by a raging cyclist?
Andrew Ryan
Banned
In the documentary they said the Feds can charge him for per document he leaked, so he's looking at about a million year sentence. How could he possibly expect a fair trial?
Depends what he considers a "fair trial". I could imagine many thinking the law should be bent or applied differently for them in order to make it "fair"
If he should, then so does everyone in the NSA and government involved in directly tossing out the constitution ... which is a much more serious crime.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
Meanwhile General Petraeus gets probation for leaking classified documents to his mistress. She's isn't getting charged, happy ending for everyone!!!
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/petr...r-giving-classified-info-to-mistress-1.332501
benjipwns
Banned
This is actually common for crimes of any level. It's mostly to make the potential sentence higher so that the person pleas out.
Hold on here, can you imagine what would happen if high ranking government officials and associated important people were suddenly held accountable for their abuses of power?
It'd be hard to find people to take the jobs for one thing.
Wait, wait, I'll concede that signing a piece of paper isn't treason, but leaking the information he did, in the way he did, definitely might be. I don't personally think the man is a "traitor", in the sense that he wanted to harm America, but he undoubtedly broke a lot of laws meant to secure the nation from enemies.
Most of those people are Libertarians, though. I doubt they have much beef with Snowden.
Or Santa Clause. Source your made up claims.
benjipwns
Banned
Who are the "enemies" that he adhered to? Or provided aid or comfort?
Should Geraldo be tried for treason?
Okay, bad example.
Made up claims? I thought this was pretty well known already but...
LOL. BOOM.
Read it and weep.
All you needed was a simple google. It isn't hard.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/25/politics/nsa-leak-snowden-job/
or http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/06/24/edward-snowden-nsa-leaker-russia-cuba-flight-asylum-ecuador/2451403/
or about 40 other news sources of your choice. It's even in the wiki. Jesus, dude.
Before you cry FAKE the interview session was online and was recorded.
See, those are the sorts of questions a trial could answer. Maybe expert testimony will show that there was, in fact, no danger in releasing those documents to the public and that Snowden made genuine attempts at concealing the most sensitive data. Maybe all the terrorists have already figured out the strong correlation between cell phone calls and drone strikes. Or not, but we won't know until he returns to answer for his crimes!
benjipwns
Banned
But a trial couldn't answer this. It'd have to be a closed trial because the state still considers these classified documents and any expert testimony would also be classified. Snowden couldn't present a defense because legally there isn't one he could use, whistleblower protections only apply if you use the official process. The state can simply assert the danger but it's classified and too sensitive to reveal in court or provide to the defense (especially since he's already released documents at least once), boom, done, convicted for life.
MisterFalcon
Member
If the Russians got everything he had he is no longer of any use to them. Better make a deal now before he's put on a plane out of Moscow. Or ends up with a bullet in his head if he ever tries to leak some Russian dirt.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
What are the odds Putin doesn't let him leave?
King Gilga
Member
Guys a god damn hero I wish him the best.
But why come back to the country that wants to jail your forever? How shitty is your life in Russia that you'd want to do that?
But why come back to the country that wants to jail your forever? How shitty is your life in Russia that you'd want to do that?
The surprising thing about this thread, is not the reaction about Snowden.
But the fact that people here actually still believe that all the data collected by the NSA is essentially useless because it's too much and the government does not have enough people to check it, its..
We are not in the 90's anymore.
But the fact that people here actually still believe that all the data collected by the NSA is essentially useless because it's too much and the government does not have enough people to check it, its..
We are not in the 90's anymore.
Why is this? I don't understand why people are pro government and not pro citizen.
I'm on his side. I was referring to majority public opinion.
well you have a confused looking Doogie Howser and a confused looking Jimmy Fallon making Snowden is a traitor jokes, to only smatterings of laughter, yeah. It seems forced.
That's my point. I don't understand why in the public's eye he would be viewed as a traitor. Traitor to who? The government? Sure, but not the people. To the people he is a hero, or at least he should be.
According to some polls that is not the majorities opinion.
He complained about authoritarian regime and fled to Russia.
That's where I separate the act from the person.
Snowden is basically martyring himself if he comes back. He can fully expect to spend a year or two in solitary confinement before they even bother to bring him to trial, followed by a guaranteed guilty verdict with a decades-long sentence.
I would have major respect for Obama if he pardoned the guy, but that seems pretty unlikely at this point. Obama and his administration have been pretty consistent in stating that Snowden is not a patriot or a whistleblower and doesn't deserve to be treated as such.
Even the general public seems to have moved on from outrage to listless acceptance of creeping government surveillance. Just look at this thread; half of the posters don't care that their government is spying on them and resent Snowden for telling them about it.
I would have major respect for Obama if he pardoned the guy, but that seems pretty unlikely at this point. Obama and his administration have been pretty consistent in stating that Snowden is not a patriot or a whistleblower and doesn't deserve to be treated as such.
Even the general public seems to have moved on from outrage to listless acceptance of creeping government surveillance. Just look at this thread; half of the posters don't care that their government is spying on them and resent Snowden for telling them about it.
I imagine options are very limited when you've pissed off the US of A. Look back to the good men and women of history that have done great, selfless things and virtually every single one of them will have done something you'll find, at the very least, questionable.
benjipwns
Banned
He went to China first, but Russia was the only place powerful enough with enough of a jackass as its head. Where else could he have gone?
gutter_trash
Banned
denounce spying and wiretapping............ decides to hangout in Putin's Russia
Princess Carl
Member
"Just stay in the country so you can have a secret trial where evidence doesn't actually have to be produced, and where you can be prosecuted for literally anything under the espionage act for the act of whistle-blowing."
Yeah, you don't understand how you might link the magnitude of treasonous acts the US govt has carried out and why snowden might be hesitant to stick around for a trial no one would ever witness?
Snowden chose to be as free as he could given the circumstances and for as long as possible. He has already been able to speak more than he ever would have if he stayed in the US or went through "proper channels".
It was a stop on his way to Latin America, when his travel pass got revoked by US goverment. He then asked multiple states for asylum. Wasn't granted. You got a weird definition of decided to hangout.
Princess Carl
Member
It's ok, he is just willfully ignoring actual context in hopes no one will correct it.
Don't waste your time.
Educate yourself.
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