G. Maddux, T. Glavine, F. Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame

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Ragingbegal said:
Not really sure how you put Frank Thomas in the Hall of Fame and not any of the other steroid users. (Cubs fan)
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Thomas called for testing during his playing days. He was very vocal about it, and was more than willing to volunteer for it.

Frank was always a big guy, he came from football. He wasn't like Bonds or McGwire, who started out as skinny guys and then suddenly become giants in a couple years time.

Frank Thomas is seen as clean by most. He lost some votes due to some writers having a policy of not voting anyone from that era in, and likely from his less than news friendly personality.
 
Those three deserve it.

Jack Morris misses out on his final year. That's fine ... he wasn't deserving anyway in my opinion.

The Edgar Martinez vote % makes me sad.

Next year's ballot with have 2 1st year slam dunks on it ... Pedro Martinez and Randy Johnson.
 
brandonh83 said:
I had a baseball signed by Greg Maddux about fifteen years ago.

I lost it.
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I had a baseball and a bat signed by a handful of the '93 Braves team. Like Scotty Smalls, I decided one day that i'd like to use them to play baseball when we got tired of using tennis balls. I didn't lose the ball or the bat but I smudged the shit out of all the signatures. I ended up using the hell out of both the ball and the bat. I still got the bat laying around somewhere but it's chipped and you cant see the signatures on it anymore. I regret nothing.....I think.
 
Thomas called for testing during his playing days. He was very vocal about it, and was more than willing to volunteer for it.

Frank was always a big guy, he came from football. He wasn't like Bonds or McGwire, who started out as skinny guys and then suddenly become giants in a couple years time.

Frank Thomas is seen as clean by most. He lost some votes due to some writers having a policy of not voting anyone from that era in, and likely from his less than news friendly personality.
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The writers have simply collectively decided that Thomas never took PEDs for some arbitrary reason while screwing the likes of Bagwell with absolutely zero evidence, that makes me sick.
Why does Thomas always being big and having a voice against them matter? I see that as no more valid as Bagwell's denial.
I do love The Big Hurt but this has always confused me.

Hard evidence should be the only thing that matters here.
 
JasonUresti said:
Thomas called for testing during his playing days. He was very vocal about it, and was more than willing to volunteer for it.

Frank was always a big guy, he came from football. He wasn't like Bonds or McGwire, who started out as skinny guys and then suddenly become giants in a couple years time.

Frank Thomas is seen as clean by most. He lost some votes due to some writers having a policy of not voting anyone from that era in, and likely from his less than news friendly personality.
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I know. I'm just being antagonistic.

But him being big because he "came from football" should put more suspicion on him. Not less. Football players — even in high school — have a strong history of PED use.
 
Jack Morris should have been in years ago, and it is ridiculous that Alan Trammell is so low. What an underrated player.
 
Sol.. said:
I had a baseball and a bat signed by a handful of the '93 Braves team. Like Scotty Smalls, I decided one day that i'd like to use them to play baseball when we got tired of using tennis balls. I didn't lose the ball or the bat but I smudged the shit out of all the signatures. I ended up using the hell out of both the ball and the bat. I still got the bat laying around somewhere but it's chipped and you cant see the signatures on it anymore. I regret nothing.....I think.
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This makes me feel somewhat better.
 
Plinko said:
Jack Morris should have been in years ago, and it is ridiculous that Alan Trammell is so low. What an underrated player.
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I'm not sure Jack is a HOF caliber player, but I wouldn't be upset if he got in.
 
xbhaskarx said:
Craig Biggio (74.8)
Mike Piazza (62.2)
Tim Raines (46.1)


How does Craig Biggio get more votes than Mike Piazza, or even Tim Raines?
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Biggio during his peak was among the best players in baseball. I mean so were Piazza and Raines but ... voting for Biggio isn't something that makes zero sense.
 
Plinko said:
Jack Morris should have been in years ago, and it is ridiculous that Alan Trammell is so low. What an underrated player.
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Jack Morris was a barely above average pitcher .... going by ERA+ ... his was 105 over his career. (100 being average)
 
Macattk15 said:
Next year's ballot with have 2 1st year slam dunks on it ... Pedro Martinez and Randy Johnson.
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Three. Smoltz is on the ballot next year, too. Sheffield is another strong candidate, but he definitely won't get in on the first ballot due to being unlikable and probably facing PED suspicions.

Then we have Edmonds and Griffey the year after that, Manny and Pudge in 2017, Andruw, Chipper, Rolen and Thome in 2018, and Halladay, Helton, Pettite and Rivera in 2019.

This glut isn't going away anytime soon, and a lot of really deserving players are going to continue to languish in the 20-40% range unless something is done.
 
Macattk15 said:
Jack Morris was a barely above average pitcher .... going by ERA+ ... his was 105 over his career. (100 being average)
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xbhaskarx said:
In the Hall of Mediocrity, maybe.
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The moment in 2017 when Morris gets handed over to the Veterans Committee he'll be in on the first ballot. Sorry--the ERA argument isn't going to cut it.
 
xbhaskarx said:
You're right, I forgot that these voters are idiots.
.
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We'll have to see what happens with Halliday. Nobody is ever getting 300 wins again so the voters are going to have to stop using those "you have to pass this benchmark for us to even consider you" arbitrary numbers.
 
krae_man said:
We'll have to see what happens with Halliday. Nobody is ever getting 300 wins again so the voters are going to have to stop using those "you have to pass this benchmark for us to even consider you" arbitrary numbers.
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I'm okay with those benchmarks, so long as those who don't meet those benchmarks are appropriately considered. Well, I should say with certain benchmarks - I think 3000 hits or 300 wins should make you a lock, but not 500 HR. But baseball is such a game of statistics, it's a bit silly to overly rely on these major milestones.

On another note, I'm really disappointed that Maddox didn't get 100%.
 
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Three. Smoltz is on the ballot next year, too. Sheffield is another strong candidate, but he definitely won't get in on the first ballot due to being unlikable and probably facing PED suspicions.

Then we have Edmonds and Griffey the year after that, Manny and Pudge in 2017, Andruw, Chipper, Rolen and Thome in 2018, and Halladay, Helton, Pettite and Rivera in 2019.

This glut isn't going away anytime soon, and a lot of really deserving players are going to continue to languish in the 20-40% range unless something is done.
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PROBABLY faced PED suspicions? Sheffield was involved in the BALCO scandal and I believe pretty much admitted it. He has no chance whatsoever (same goes for other juicers on that list like Manny, Pudge, Pettite, etc.).

I predict the only hitters you named that will get through unscathed are Griffey and Chipper...
 
commish said:
I'm okay with those benchmarks, so long as those who don't meet those benchmarks are appropriately considered. Well, I should say with certain benchmarks - I think 3000 hits or 300 wins should make you a lock, but not 500 HR. But baseball is such a game of statistics, it's a bit silly to overly rely on these major milestones.

On another note, I'm really disappointed that Maddox didn't get 100%.
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You are not the only one. 16 people kept him out their ballots. Silly
 
xbhaskarx said:
PROBABLY faced PED suspicions? Sheffield was involved in the BALCO scandal and I believe pretty much admitted it. He has no chance whatsoever (same goes for other juicers on that list like Manny, Pudge, Pettite, etc.).

I predict the only hitters you named that will get through unscathed are Griffey and Chipper...
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My mind was drawing a blank on if he had been specifically named or not. I honestly stopped caring about most of who was named years ago. He won't get in right away, but he was good enough that he'll at least stay in contention and be in that 30-40% range, I think.

I think Pudge will be fine, but most of the others will face an uphill battle. But they're all strong candidates for the hall, and they're all going to get decent support. Griffey and Chipper will be the only ones to get in that 90%+ range, though.
 
It's pretty amazing to me that someone would leave Maddox off their ballot. I get that there's this stupid belief that no one should be unanimous, but come on. How do you not vote for him?
 
Black Mamba said:
It's pretty amazing to me that someone would leave Maddox off their ballot. I get that there's this stupid belief that no one should be unanimous, but come on. How do you not vote for him?
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At least one voter specifically left off anyone who played in the 'Steroid Era' at all, regardless of if they used. Plus someone turned in a blank ballot.

In short, there are some idiotic voters.
 
I'm disappointed there's not much support for Schilling.

He won 216 games, kept is ERA well under 4.00 during the steroid era and was dominant from 1995-2006 (save for his injury plagued 2005 season).

Schilling is also one of the best post season pitchers of his generation, 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA against the best teams in baseball.

I understand he is a fringe candidate, but to see guys like Clemens pull down so much more support makes my stomach churn.
 
I'm surprised Mattingly's not already in.

...I'm really surprised that nobody else seems to be surprised that Mattingly's not already in.
 
Glad Morris didn't make it in.

Next year will be interesting. Randy Johnson and Pedro are locks, Smoltz is likely (his reliever years and the end of his career make him look worse than Maddux and Glavin), and I would be shocked if Biggio didn't get the extra votes.

I'm guessing Piazza gets in once 2016 rolls around. The only sho-in from that ballot will be Griffey, while Jim Edmunds and Trevor Hoffman will probably get some consideration

Shig said:
I'm surprised Mattingly's not already in.

...I'm really surprised that nobody else seems to be surprised that Mattingly's not already in.
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Short career, and he wasn't a great enough player to overcome that
 
Shig said:
I'm surprised Mattingly's not already in.

...I'm really surprised that nobody else seems to be surprised that Mattingly's not already in.
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I'm a Yankees fan I don't think he deserves to be in. His peak was too short and his career is simply not HoF worthy.
 
Shig said:
I'm surprised Mattingly's not already in.

...I'm really surprised that nobody else seems to be surprised that Mattingly's not already in.
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What's there to be surprised about? He's not even a fringe candidate. Short career, only a three year peak that wasn't even that high, and no real stats that would blow you away. Him playing for the Yankees is the only reason he's still on the ballot at all. Moises Alou, who fell off after his first year on the ballot this year, had a better career than Mattingly.
 
*shrug* I guess I'll defer to y'all's judgement. 9 Gold Gloves in 14 seasons somehow seems like he was contributing pretty well, though. He's got a higher cumulative BA than Thomas, too.

Man, Thomas was playing through 2008? I really didn't know he was kicking around the league for so long, he went totally off the radar around 96 for me.
 
bigkrev said:
Glad Morris didn't make it in.

Next year will be interesting. Randy Johnson and Pedro are locks, Smoltz is likely (his reliever years and the end of his career make him look worse than Maddux and Glavin), and I would be shocked if Biggio didn't get the extra votes.

I'm guessing Piazza gets in once 2016 rolls around. The only sho-in from that ballot will be Griffey, while Jim Edmunds and Trevor Hoffman will probably get some consideration
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I'd take Edmunds over any of them. Incredible outfielder.
 
Who is voting for Hideo Nomo and JT Snow to get in the Hall of Fame? Does JT Snow have two family members with a vote?
 
clemenx said:
The writers have simply collectively decided that Thomas never took PEDs for some arbitrary reason while screwing the likes of Bagwell with absolutely zero evidence, that makes me sick.
Why does Thomas always being big and having a voice against them matter? I see that as no more valid as Bagwell's denial.
I do love The Big Hurt but this has always confused me.

Hard evidence should be the only thing that matters here.
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Frank Thomas called out the roid users in 1996, YEARS before ANYONE was willing to talk about it. In 2001 he lead a group of Sox players to not take and therefore failure drug tests, increasing the number of failed tests so that they would become mandatory. He was the only willing player out of like 800 to talk in the Mitchell report. He willingly talked to Congress about everything too. He's the face of the Anti Roid movement no matter what his body is or where he came from. Bagwell on the other hand suffered from being the incredibly shrinking man.


But really, Thomas hit 70 more home runs to get to the historic number of 500. Frank put up better numbers across the board outside of steals si that's why he's getting in.
 
Mattingly had two or three great years. He's my favorite baseball player for sentimental reasons but he's not Hall of Fame.

Edit: I'm a Yankee fan and I hope to God Pedro gets a unanimous vote next year.
 
Man that ballot makes me feel old. Most of those were still playing well the last time I paid attention to baseball.
 
Kettch said:
Man that ballot makes me feel old. Most of those were still playing well the last time I paid attention to baseball.
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Same here, and next year will be worse.

I watched Pedro Martinez pitch twice at Fenway. And his 1999 season? The single most dominating season I have seen by any pitcher in my lifetime.

I still don't understand how he didn't win the MVP in 1999.
 
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