The guys on PTI are an even bigger joke, and so is the BBWA. Good on Le Batard and the rest of those guys can suck it. HOF voting is a fucking sham and a joke, i hope more writers invalidate their votes next year.
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G. Maddux, T. Glavine, F. Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame
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The guys on PTI are an even bigger joke, and so is the BBWA. Good on Le Batard and the rest of those guys can suck it. HOF voting is a fucking sham and a joke, i hope more writers invalidate their votes next year.
Canadian Psycho
Banned
I think it's a valid reason myself when it comes to position players (pitching is notoriously harder to scout). They went from nobodies to all-time players. Personally, I was a big Piazza fan, but when I look at it, I have a hard time believing he wasn't in on it as well. As for Bagwell, I'm 99% sure he was using (his comic book character physique kind of throws it away, like McGwire, Canseco, Sosa, Juan Gonzalez, Brady Anderson, Gabe Kapler, etc.).
What I find sad is that guys like Tim Raines, Fred McGriff, Curt Schilling, Alan Trammell, all deserving Hall of Famers IMO, are left in the dust.
P.S. Oh, thank God Morris didn't make it! Dude wasn't even that good in the playoffs, save that one game for the Twins. I wish Jim Rice, Tony Perez and Bruce Sutter (and arguably Rich Gossage and Rollie Fingers) wouldn't have gone in either, but you can't win them all.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
you're just going on the fact that they had big muscles? that's it?
Canadian Psycho
Banned
Hunches. I'm open to change my mind though. We're fans, it's fun to speculate (and huge muscles are a good reason, yes).
@Maxim: Mussina should make it eventually, and deservedly so. But not before Schilling and Smoltz.
Do you think it was all roids for a guy like Piazza? He went from nobody to arguably the greatest hitting catcher, while mashing in notorious pitcher parks, because of roids? A lot of guys were doing it wrong then. I know you're not saying it was all because of roids, but even if he was on the stuff, and who wasn't, it's hard to quantify and pinpoint what impact peds had on his game. He played with and against roiders and mashed, should be an absolute no brainer.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
why isnt frank thomas ever included as a steroid player?
Ninja Scooter
Member
Because he was very vocally anti-steroid, like Raphael Palmiero.
Canadian Psycho
Banned
Very hard to quantify, indeed! Every player doesn't respond the same way to steroids.
I would love to know for sure that Piazza, Jim Edmonds, Albert Pujols and Edgar Martinez were roid free because I was amazed by their skill and followed them through box scores every day, lol. But I'm not as naive as I was ten years ago.
I'm glad Thomas and Maddux got in. Loved both as a teen, especially Maddux even though he was quite tough against my Expos. As for The Big Hurt, I have the utmost respect for his standing up among the herd and being vocal agaisnt the cheats. Doing something like that takes massive balls.
I would love to know for sure that Piazza, Jim Edmonds, Albert Pujols and Edgar Martinez were roid free because I was amazed by their skill and followed them through box scores every day, lol. But I'm not as naive as I was ten years ago.
I'm glad Thomas and Maddux got in. Loved both as a teen, especially Maddux even though he was quite tough against my Expos. As for The Big Hurt, I have the utmost respect for his standing up among the herd and being vocal agaisnt the cheats. Doing something like that takes massive balls.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
but what is it that you think thats steroids do to players?
Canadian Psycho
Banned
Added quickness, strength, capacity to recuperate, etc. You can google it too!
Elfforkusu
Member
How does it make it more of a joke? Did you see the final Deadspin ballot? It looks pretty normal!
There are writers who turned in ballots that didn't vote for Greg Maddux. Le Batard (and deadspin) should be applauded about this.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Congrats to all 3. I met Glavine while working at Fenway in 2001, he's a real class act.
The fact that there are people with responsibility who didn't vote for Maddox is a joke, really. I wonder if these clowns call up their buddies just to collude on the percentage.
The fact that there are people with responsibility who didn't vote for Maddox is a joke, really. I wonder if these clowns call up their buddies just to collude on the percentage.
He might have got in because voters slobbered over 300 wins but he deserved to be in without it. Glavine was never elite or the best in the game but then again the HoF has a bunch of guys that don't fit that description.
Glavine did eat innings, stay healthy, pitch at a level that made him a #2 in a rotation, and was consistent enough over two decades to claw his way to the HoF. Glavine is a guy who just stayed in the good category much longer than many pitchers before and after him.
While that description might now sound flashy it does not have to. Not every HoF player gets it because they were elite or amazing during their career. The fact is that Glavine is better than a bunch of the pitchers already in the HoF.
I think the guy is overrated, not as good as Mussina or Schilling who did more in less time. However every pitcher who has achieved a 115 ERA+ or higher with at least 4000 innings is in the HoF.
Also Jack Morris is not even in Glavine's category.
empty vessel
Member
You don't think 3000 hits warrants praise? It's a pretty small club. Only 20 people in the history of the sport have had more hits than Biggio. I'm sure I'm at least a little biased since I watched him play from the beginning of his career through the end (for one team the whole time), but I think he exemplified the sport. And he played three positions during his career (and well). How many all star catchers become all star middle infielders? He was also just 9 home runs shy of 300. Four gold gloves to boot. I think objectively Biggio deserves more votes than either Piazza or Raines. And frankly more even than Frank Thomas.
Canadian Psycho
Banned
Raines' peak years were fantastic. He was dominant for several seasons in a light-hitting era (save the anomaly of 1987). Biggio was good, but not as good as either of those three.
Are the PTI guys members of the BBWA? That would explain all their whining about LeBatard. The ballot was pretty good. Why aren't Tony and Mike angry at the voters who selected J.T. Snow or Armando Benitez?
empty vessel
Member
I think it's right to say that Raines was dominant for a few years during his peak, but I still have to disagree. While Biggio never had dominant seasons like that, he had several remarkable achievements beyond what I already mentioned:
- In 1997, became the first player in baseball history not to hit into a single double play while playing an entire 162 game season. Two players, Augie Galan (1935) and Dick McAuliffe (1968), had previously played an entire season with the same feat, but did not play in as many games in their respective seasons.
- In 1997, scored 146 runs, which is the most of any National League player since the Phillies' Chuck Klein scored 152 runs in 1932.
- In 1998 he became the second player to have 50 stolen bases and 50 doubles in the same season. The only other player to accomplish this is Baseball Hall of Fame member Tris Speaker for the Boston Red Sox in 1912.
- Holds the National League record for most lead-off home runs in a career with 53. He is third in MLB behind Alfonso Soriano and Rickey Henderson.
Canadian Psycho
Banned
I believe he has his place as a fringe member, like Raines does. The 3,000 hit plateau should carry him over in the next year or three. I'm okay with that. 
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