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[Einbroch]

inFamous - 3 points

Modern Warfare 2 - 2 points
Uncharted 2 - 2 points

Star Ocean: The Last Hope - 1 point
Borderlands - 1 point
Assassin's Creed 2 - 1 point

 

[flabberghastly]

I posted one of those myself. If half the games don't count, it's not a real top 10. People are only posting like that because they expected a top 10 system to start with and had one ready. People that didn't won't bother making one because the system discourages it.

I'm not concerned about shutting out entries on the collective list, I'm concerned about shutting out individual opinions. Read my post on the previous page.

Answer this: are you more interested in reading individual lists or the collective list? If it's the former, then people listing top 10s (regardless of how they arrange points, and how those points affect the collective list) should be enough for you. The system doesn't discourage top 10 (or less) lists, but, rather, doesn't force them. If it's the latter, we'll just need to agree to disagree on the merits of this system in producing an interesting collective list. For me, the new system requires a bit more thought and passion for the games than the previous one, both of which I consider to be positives.

 

[Fredescu]

Answer just this: are you more interested in reading individual lists or the collective list?

The whole process is interesting. It is less so this year because there is less data.

The system doesn't discourage top 10 (or less) lists, but, rather, doesn't force them.

The old system didn't force them. Most people listed 10 anyway. This system discourages them by only allowing you to list ten if you concede that the 10th best game you played this year was equally as good as the first. The tradition of deciding your own personal game of the year is a strong one. Most people are forced to give up votes 7-10 in order to express this opinion.

 

[mlaz14]

Uncharted 2- 3 points
Killzone 2- 2 points
Modern Warfare 2- 2 points

 

[timetokill]

I've counted through Post #300 now.

Something interesting that popped out to me in that section of the votes: When you go purely by "first-place" votes (scores of 3),

Spoiler

Trials HD

is a Top 10 game. Pretty cool


I won't mention other games by name.

 

[flabberghastly]

The whole process is interesting. It is less so this year because there is less data.

Did you complain in the previous years, because they wouldn't allow you to vote beyond 10?

The old system didn't force them. Most people listed 10 anyway. This system discourages them by only allowing you to list ten if you concede that the 10th best game you played this year was equally as good as the first. The tradition of deciding your own personal game of the year is a strong one. Most people are forced to give up votes 7-10 in order to express this opinion.

I know the old system didn't force an entire list of 10, hence the use of "or less" in the sentence you quoted. This system doesn't discourage people from listing any number of games, which is why people like you were able to still post top 10 lists. The only difference is that those top ten lists aren't reflected precisely that way on the collective list - i.e., all ten games will be reflected equally, or some not at all. This system neither discourages nor encourages the posting of a list, because it is completely irrelevant to the collective list, the production of which is this system's goal. There's nothing discouraging individual posters from using whatever method of presentation they'd like; it just won't be reflected however they'd like on the collective list. This isn't completely different from previous years. If I wanted to list 150 games last year, I could, but, of course, only 10 of them would be reflected on the collective list.

 

[abq]

Uncharted 2 - 3 points
Batman AA - 2 points
Bayonetta - 2 points
Mushihimesama Futari - 1 point
Dragon Age - 1 point
Dragon Quest V - 1 point

 

[Fredescu]

Did you complain in the previous years, because they wouldn't allow you to vote beyond 10?

The number of votes weren't reduced in the previous years that I was around for.

This system neither discourages nor encourages the posting of a list, because it is completely irrelevant to the collective list, the production of which is this system's goal.

Compare the amount of people listing 10 games this year to the amount listing 10 games last year. The system actively discourages posting 10 games. The vast majority adhere to the guidelines provided and don't list entries that don't count.

 

[Ashes]

@time to kill... interesting.. are you going to post that table at the end... that would be prettty cool...
i see there are still some who think: gaf as an individual has less to say...or influence..

 

[xintin]

Uncharted 2 - 3pts

Street Fighter IV - 2pts
FIFA 10 - 2pts

 

[Raziel]

pretty messed up system

just put me down for

demon's souls - 3

 

[Son of Godzilla]

voting systems blahblahblah

This entire process of arguing over a proper voting system and how a different one would affect the results is antiquated. There's no reason why the raw data (People's lists) can't be collected and then run through various vote calculation methods.

 

[Big B]

Demon's Souls - 3 points

Locoroco 2 - 2 points
Killzone 2 - 2 points

Flower - 1 point
Bonsai Barber - 1 point
Torchlight - 1 point

 

[Fredescu]

There's no reason why the raw data (People's lists) can't be collected and then run through various vote calculation methods.

Someone did that. http://viz.evilrobotstuff.com/gafgoty/goty2008/

Discouraging a static number of votes makes it more difficult to do this year.

 

[Fugu]

Blazblue - 3

Bayonetta - 2

Wipeout HD Fury - 1
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - 1

 

[flabberghastly]

The number of votes weren't reduced in the previous years that I was around for.

But they were still arbitrary. Why are you arguing for 10-game lists and not 25-game lists or larger? That's more data, which is apparently so much more interesting.

Compare the amount of people listing 10 games this year to the amount listing 10 games last year. The system actively discourages posting 10 games. The vast majority adhere to the guidelines provided and don't list entries that don't count.

Just because "the vast majority adhere to the guidelines" doesn't mean that the system discourages larger lists - especially "actively." The most you can claim is that it doesn't encourage them. Your complaint should be with the vast majority of people who didn't post larger lists, not the system that doesn't force them to.

 

[Noshino]

Someone did that. http://viz.evilrobotstuff.com/gafgoty/goty2008/

Discouraging a static number of votes makes it more difficult to do this year.

Yah, and that same person also mentions this early on

For at least the last few years, the NeoGAF GOTY votes have used a linear weighting scale. Points are alloted based on their rank, starting at 10 points for number 1, and decrementing by one for each lower rank. Although easy to understand, this system carries with it several flaws that are simple to exploit.

He also mentions once or twice more that the system is broken.

Once again, the only advantage that the 1-to-10 list brought was, well, 10 games. That's it.

 

[Parch]

3 points - Forza 3

2 points - Dragon Age Origins
2 points - Fight Night 4
2 points - Batman AA

1 point - Rock Band - Beatles

 

[Spider from Mars]

Uncharted 2- 3

Tales of Vesperia- 2
Assassins Creed 2- 2

Dragon Age- 1
Shadow Complex-1
Modern Warfare 2- 1

 

[Movement]

Uncharted 2 - 3
Call of Duty Modern Warefare 2 - 2
Red Faction Guerilla - 1
Demon's Souls - 1
Ratchet and Clank a Crack In Time - 1
Killzone 2 - 1
Infamous - 1

 

[odhiex]

Uncharted 2 - 3 points

Assasin's Creed II - 2 points
Ratchet and Clank: CiT - 2 points

Batman Arkham Asylum - 1 point
Infamous - 1 point
Modern Warfare 2 - 1 point

:-? hmmm...

 

[Fredescu]

Your complaint should be with the vast majority of people who didn't post larger lists, not the system that doesn't force them to.

The reason they are not posting larger lists is because the guidelines discourage it.

He also mentions once or twice more that the system is broken.

Once again, the only advantage that the 1-to-10 list brought was, well, 10 games. That's it.

The point of the article is to suggest a new score weighting for a top 10 list. He's not saying top 10 lists are broken.

 

[GoutPatrol]

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare - 3
Suikoden Tierkreis - 1
The Beatles: Rock Band - 1
Flower - 1
Forza Motorsport 3 - 1
Scribblenauts - 1

 

[flabberghastly]

The reason they are not posting larger lists is because the guidelines discourage it.

Not encouraging is not the same as discouraging. What do you not get about that? This system is neutral - it neither encourages nor discourages.

 

[Stantron]

Street Fighter IV - 3
Infamous- 2
Uncharted 2- 2
Killzone 2- 1
Batman: AA - 1
Assassin's Creed II - 1

 

[JaCy]

Uncharted 2 - 3pts
Band Hero - 2pts
Dragon Age Origins- 2pts
Dragon Quest V - 2pts
InFamous - 1pt

 

[Fredescu]

This system is neutral - it neither encourages nor discourages.

I don't agree, but I think this debate has run its course.

 

[angelfly]

I'm from NA and imported the first two on the list.

Final Fantasy XIII - 3
Bayonetta - 2
Uncharted 2 - 2
Demon's Souls - 2
Flower - 1

 

[Col. John Matrix]

Uncharted 2 - 3

Demons Souls - 2
Borderlands - 2
Batman: AA - 2
Killzone 2 - 1

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Not encouraging is not the same as discouraging. What do you not get about that? This system is neutral - it neither encourages nor discourages.

:lol wat

Just because "the vast majority adhere to the guidelines" doesn't mean that the system discourages larger lists - especially "actively."

...

:lol

I don't agree, but I think this debate has run its course.

Yet the laughter remains.

 

[Esperado]

Demon's Souls - 3
Uncharted 2 - 2
Left 4 Dead 2 - 1
Torchlight - 1
Flower - 1
inFamous - 1
Borderlands - 1

I'm PS3 skewed, but that's the console I own so what can you do.

 

[flabberghastly]

:lol wat

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume English isn't your first language. It might explain why you think your thoughts are best expressed to the English-speaking majority through a smiley and a message board cliche. That noted, there was nothing posted by timetokill that either encouraged or discouraged the posting of a ridiculous number of games. If you want your post to reflect every game you played the entire year - ranked however you want it, partially ranked, completely unranked - so everyone who supposedly cares about every, individual list can enjoy it, there's not only nothing stopping you but also no one even claiming that you shouldn't. No discouragement. List 150 games if you want. On the other hand, it would largely be pointless unless you just really want to show off all the extra games, because beyond the 10 points you choose to distribute, the rest of your list will be completely superfluous and irrelevant with regard to the collective list. No encouragement.

 

[Alidar]

Uncharted 2 - 3
Assassin's Creed II - 2
Forza 3 - 1
Ratchet & Clank: A Crack in Time - 1
Killzone 2 - 1
inFamous - 1
Battlestations: Pacific - 1

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume English isn't your first language. It might explain why you think your thoughts are best expressed to the English-speaking majority through a smiley and a message board cliche. That noted, there was nothing posted by timetokill that either encouraged or discouraged the posting of a ridiculous number of games. If you want your post to reflect every game you played the entire year - ranked however you want it, partially ranked, completely unranked - so everyone who supposedly cares about every, individual list can enjoy it, there's not only nothing stopping you but also no one even claiming that you shouldn't. No discouragement. List 150 games if you want. On the other hand, it would largely be pointless unless you just really want to show off all the extra games, because beyond the 10 points you choose to distribute, the rest of your list will be completely superfluous and irrelevant with regard to the collective list. No encouragement.

Go through and count how many people listed 10 games versus how many people did not and get back to me on whether or not this system discourages people from doing so.

But really, :lol

 

[flabberghastly]

Go through and count how many people listed 10 games versus how many people did not and get back to me on whether or not this system discourages people from doing so.

But really, :lol

Whether people are listing 5, 10, 20, 50, 200,000 is irrelevant - the system isn't discouraging them. There is nothing in this system and no one in this thread who is actively attempting to prevent people from listing as many games as they'd like. I would say that this system only encourages people to list 5 games (though a sizable number haven't even gone that far), just as the old system encouraged people to list 10 games (and a sizable number didn't go that far then), but neither discourages people from listing until their hearts are content.

 

[Alts]

The reason they are not posting larger lists is because the guidelines discourage it.


The point of the article is to suggest a new score weighting for a top 10 list. He's not saying top 10 lists are broken.

Thank you for not letting that poster mischaracterize my intent. I made that in the hopes of convincing GAF to try a new WEIGHTING scheme. Top 10s should stay. My primary concern was with how the linear scale was overly beneficial to games that sold a lot.

What I proposed was a new scale, not a brand new process.

 

[Noshino]

Thank you for not letting that poster mischaracterize my intent. I made that in the hopes of convincing GAF to try a new WEIGHTING scheme. Top 10s should stay. My primary concern was with how the linear scale was overly beneficial to games that sold a lot.

What I proposed was a new scale, not a brand new process.

I apologize if I misunderstood your intent.

Since you went over the previous results, would you mind listing the flaws of the system (1-to-10), and what you think would work better?

 

[Resident_UA]

People that keep arguing about validity of the 3 point system must be either really bored or really lonely... I'm really bored. Working night shift

 

[Tashi]

Halo 3: ODST - 3
Street Fighter IV - 2
Forza Motorsport 3 - 2

 

[Virro]

Demon's Souls - 3 points
Uncharted 2 - 2 points
Batman AA - 2 points
Killzone 2 - 2 points
Flower - 1 point

 

[Xenon]

Peggle Dual Shot DS - 3

Peggle + Peggle Nights on a portable kept me busy for months. I can't believe Im the first one to put it down. I'd give 10 if I could.

Uncharted 2 - 2

Borderlands - 2

Little big planet PSP - 2

SF IV - 1


Looking at these lists make me realize how few games I've played this year.

 

[Haunted]

The system prevents ordered top 10s, and discourages full top 10s.

Yeah. :/

I gotta agree with you and Mar here, this thread's been far less interesting to follow than previous years so far. Ordered Top 10 lists is one of the major reasons why I'm looking forward to the GAF GOTY every year.

Oh well, we can always do it properly next time, I guess.

 

[timetokill]

Counted the posts through Page 4.... some tidbits at this point in the counting:

- There are two games tied for 4th place
- Five of the games in the top 10 are within 5 points of each other
- 2119 points have been distributed

 

[JambiBum]

Batman: AA-3
Borderlands-2
Assassin's Creed 2- 2
Uncharted 2-2
Left 4 Dead 2-1

 

[Cheech]

I think this system is great.

Lop off everyone's "3 pt vote", and you'll get a real top 10 list, because it will nullify the "fanboy magnet" vote getters.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I think this system is great.

Lop off everyone's "3 pt vote", and you'll get a real top 10 list, because it will nullify the "fanboy magnet" vote getters.

:lol

I don't think, regardless of the system used, that there was much question about what GAF would put up top. It could always be that people really enjoy the game though... dunno.

 

[timetokill]

I think this system is great.

Lop off everyone's "3 pt vote", and you'll get a real top 10 list, because it will nullify the "fanboy magnet" vote getters.

Thanks for the compliment.

I may try removing the 3 pointers from the list just to see what it looks like .

 

[Caspel]

Three Points:
Dragon Age: Origins (3)

Two Points:
Street Fighter IV (2)
Forza Motorsport 3 (2)

One Point:
Borderlands (1)
Uncharted 2 (1)
Batman: Arkham Asylum (1)

 

[iratA]

My GOTY:
Uncharted 2 - 3

My Runners Up:
Dragon Age Origins - 1
Batman AA - 1
Killzone 2 - 1
Modern Warfare 2 - 1

 

[AkuMifune]

Three Points
Batman: Arkham Asylum (3)

Two Points
Assassin's Creed 2 (2)
Uncharted 2 (2)

One Point
Flower (1)
Trials HD (1)
Battlefield 1943 (1)