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[MorisUkunRasik]

Illmatic isn't a classic, need half a century to pass to see if it's still listenable

 

[WanderingWind]

By certified I mean validated by time, nothing more. There doesn't need to be a Complex list or an authority necessarily.

And then you get into what constitutes validation. Is it impact? Not necessarily. Is it encapsulating a period of time perfectly? Not necessarily. Is it being unique in an ocean of homogeny? Not necessarily.

Which is why getting heated about this classic shit is stupid. People knew Doggystyle was classic on release, for instance. Some are revealed to be classic with time. Some "classics" are forgotten with time.

 

[HiiiLife]

GKMC is timeless doe.

 

[enzo_gt]

Okay I'll admit I'm making assumptions, but these are a few artists I believe have already been influenced by Kendrick...The Game, Schoolboy Q, Dr. Dre, Rocky, and Lady Gaga.

Game - maybe, but he's a flavour-of-the-month-flow guy anyways, then again I haven't heard Jesus Piece yet

The rest of them, how could you tell? They've barely released anything (if anything) after GKMC, let alone enough to extrapolate impact from. All Rocky has put out is Fucking Problem, which was actually released before GKMC's official release too. Q probably too since he's explicitly said so that GKMC would raise the bar, but the two guys are in the same camp, they feed off of each other on the regualar and it's all reducible to PR at the end of the day.

And then you get into what constitutes validation. Is it impact? Not necessarily. Is it encapsulating a period of time perfectly? Not necessarily. Is it being unique in an ocean of homogeny? Not necessarily.

Which is why getting heated about this classic shit is stupid. People knew Doggystyle was classic on release, for instance. Some are revealed to be classic with time. Some "classics" are forgotten with time.

I don't think of validation along any of those dimensions. Impact and encapsulating a time period I'd put under my other criteria, which is influence. I think of validation strictly when it comes to the quality. Can you go back to those songs days/months/years/decades/centuries/millenia later and still relatively enjoy them as much as you did when it came out?

Ain't nobody getting heated here, it's all barbershop arguments. Kanye is better than your favourite rapper, come at me bruh.

Real talk, I love GKMC, it's probably my AOTY. But only now am I considering MBDTF as something worthy of being a classic to me because I'm still listening to it weekly and it still holds up in every regard in quality to me. However, I don't think it had much of an impact, enough of an impact to resonate and define what I think of when I hear the word "classic."

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

I don't stick the "classic" label on movies TBH, just differentiate for good and bad. But I do think things that make a good movie are rewatchability (I guess being certified timeless). Influence, I could give less of a fuck, probably because I can perceive influence much better in music than I can in movies.

Plus I'm weird and like everything from Pulp Fiction to Fast and the Furious. I like cheap thrills in movies more than I do in music.

Thanks!
I only ask as the debate you and Des are having is the same I've heard many film students have over time.
There the talks are usually settled at 'what is a classic if it doesn't hold up over time?' which kind of brings us in line with your thinking here which reminded me, so I thought I'd ask.

..... I didn't really have much of a point though

 

[HiResDes]

I'll actually concede that Enzo makes some good points, but WW already basically nailed my rebuttal.

 

[Trey]

Throwing a vote into the GKMC is a classic hat. It has all the elements of a good rap album, while preserving his creative uniqueness and enjoying commercial success. It's also extremely cohesive, which is something that most rap joints just aren't nowadays. It touched the core of hip hop to a greater degree than most albums ever have, and did so while in the spotlight. It told a personal story in a way anyone could understand and appreciate. It has layers and surface appeal.

Everyone was expecting or fearing mediocrity - instead we got greatness.

This shit is a classic. Nothing above will change five years from now. This is a touchstone. Every good debut album will be compared to this. Every cohesive album that tells an overarching story, going forward, will be measured against GKMC.

 

[WanderingWind]

Enzo plz. You were a fetus when most these classics came out, so it's no wonder you don't get instant classic status. Also, haven't you been saying MBDTF is a classic? By what metric of your fucked up definition are we using here to declare that shit?

Marvel sucks, Iron Man is shit tier and Kanye is never going to message you back on Twitter. Stop.

 

[HiiiLife]

Yeah I personally don't see my opinion changing in the future, but only time will tell. I haven't played any other album/mixtape since Kendrick's released. I'm always finding myself coming back to this. I love it too much. Don't think I've been this addicted to a debut since TCD.

 

[enzo_gt]

Throwing a vote into the GKMC is a classic hat. It has all the elements of a good rap album, while preserving his creative uniqueness and enjoying commercial success. It's also extremely cohesive, which is something that most rap joints just aren't nowadays. It touched the core of hip hop to a greater degree than most albums ever have, and did so while in the spotlight. It told a personal story in a way anyone could understand and appreciate. It has layers and surface appeal.

Everyone was expecting or fearing mediocrity - instead we got greatness.

This shit is a classic. Nothing above will change five years from now. This is a touchstone. Every good debut album will be compared to this. Every cohesive album that tells an overarching story, going forward, will be measured against GKMC.

This is a good point. Can't really say much else but stick to my guns that you need to wait that arbitrary time for this to happen before you know for sure this is the truth and not just a prediction.

Enzo plz. You were a fetus when most these classics came out, so it's no wonder you don't get instant classic status. Also, haven't you been saying MBDTF is a classic? By what metric of your fucked up definition are we using here to declare that shit?

Marvel sucks, Iron Man is shit tier and Kanye is never going to message you back on Twitter. Stop.

Spoiler

I've actually always disagreed with peter when he's been calling MBDTF a classic. Otherwise, all trolls, including Finally Famous trolls, THOUGH THAT ALBUM IS STILL FUCKING GOOD SO FUCK YOU GUYS

 

[The Return of]

Surprisingly I think complex is pretty spot on for the most part. There are 3 albums I disagree with but it's spot on

 

[overcast]

It's a classic in my eyes, but I think its impact will be tested in the next year or so. One thing I feel is that there was this crop of new "good" rappers in the past 2 years, and he has come out on top. Not sure if that means much.

 

[HiiiLife]

I need some new music cause Kendrick has been taking up all my time. Seriously.

*turns on Pandora*

 

[enzo_gt]

tl;dr: GKMC is a classic until Q launches his major label debut and snuffs out Kendricks little hype fire in the process

YACK YACK YACK YACK

 

[Grzi]

Whether something is a classic really isn't subjective, at least it shouldn't be.

I also wouldn't want people to think that I don't like GKMC, it's by far my favorite album this year, but I definitely don't like throwing around the word classic when describing stuff that I like. There's a bunch of albums I personally don't like but have no problem admitting them being classic albums because I can recognize the impact thy had and see the recognition and praise they get practically everywhere.
I still didn't get that from GKMC, not saying I won't, but all I wanted was to point out how early it is to call it a classic album.

 

[overcast]

tl;dr: GKMC is a classic until Q launches his major label debut and snuffs out Kendricks little hype fire in the process

YACK YACK YACK YACK

I think Q can release a fucking terrific debut. Really excited. He also recently said he's working on his "album", not mixtape like previously said.

 

[HiResDes]

I need some new music cause Kendrick has been taking up all my time. Seriously.

*turns on Pandora*

Visit the album of the year thread and the electronic thread and search for artists on youtube and or Spotify...Profit.

 

[enzo_gt]

Whether something is a classic really isn't subjective, at least it shouldn't be.

I also wouldn't want people to think that I don't like GKMC, it's by far my favorite album this year, but I definitely don't like throwing around the word classic when describing stuff that I like. There's a bunch of albums I personally don't like but have no problem admitting them being classic albums because I can recognize the impact thy had and see the recognition and praise they get practically everywhere.
I still didn't get that from GKMC, not saying I won't, but all I wanted was to point out how early it is to call it a classic album.

One thing GKMC has going for it is the universal praise though.

Like literally the entire universe, and for the first time ever, all of GAF-Hop. The only person in the universe who doesn't like it is Shyne Po.

I think Q can release a fucking terrific debut. Really excited. He also recently said he's working on his "album", not mixtape like previously said.

I'm only scared about production. Same way I was for Kendrick. Exact same fear in my head right now. Bigger name producers don't necessarily mean more suited beats, and the TDE crew already do tremendously well complimenting all of TDEs styles except for Jay Rock I guess.

 

[HiiiLife]

Lol. Tbh the only reason I have "The City" on my iPhone is because of Kdot.

Am I wrong for naming it Kendrick feat. The Game?

Prolly. But I don't care.

I do that for numerous other collabs as well.

 

[cacophony]

thats probably the best list ive seen on complex, not saying much tho

but WTT & Kid Cootie?!! noo

 

[HiiiLife]

Visit the album of the year thread and the electronic thread and search for artists on youtube and or Spotify...Profit.

Will do.

 

[WanderingWind]

One thing GKMC has going for it is the universal praise though.

Like literally the entire universe, and for the first time ever, all of GAF-Hop. The only person in the universe who doesn't like it is Shyne Po.

Yup. And that one dipshit who got the leak first. "Boring beats, n****a fuck dat" But he got embarrassed quick.

 

[bowery]

this is a certified hood classic

 

[cacophony]

 

[Blackace]

www.dj-ace.com/Mixes/game.mp3


thought I would repost it for those that missed it

 

[overcast]

I'm only scared about production. Same way I was for Kendrick. Exact same fear in my head right now. Bigger name producers don't necessarily mean more suited beats, and the TDE crew already do tremendously well complimenting all of TDEs styles except for Jay Rock I guess.

Same. They really don't need to change that much. As far as in house goes, they've been getting nice production for a few years now. TDE has done them well, no need do Ethan much change. Also, pick good features. Q seems to have a lot of people backing him though. Danny and ASAP would be awesome.

 

[//B1G]

Danny Brown has a UK plan?
Laaaaame. Next.

 

[Blackace]

Schoolboy needs to reach out to Quik... that needs to happen

 

[Trey]

I think it's telling that when GKMC dropped, boys didn't tether it to MotM, Below the Heavens or TCD. They went all the way back to Illmatic.

GKMC gets under your skin. It tells a human story in a provocative manner. You don't object to the content - you can't. Kendrick is in full control of everything on this album. Every feature takes cues from his example, and fits in around his story, like true background characters. And no one can tell him shit.

Unless our sensibilities are completely overwritten in the near future, the reasons you liked GKMC on release is the same reason you'll like it next year and the year after. Like a true classic album.

You know it's a classic when it'll take the human singularity event to remove affections for the album.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Clyde Clarkson is cool, but dude just sounds too lazy like beyond Spitta levels on many of these tracks, also after E-40 comes on I just wish he was featured on every song.

YOu talking bout Clyde Carson? Or a different dude? I liked Carson back when he had his lil buzz then did nothing about it.

www.dj-ace.com/Mixes/game.mp3


thought I would repost it for those that missed it

Fantastic. Theres my evening listening sorted.

 

[HiResDes]

Clyde Carson my fault.

 

[enzo_gt]

Big Boi decodes "Lines" and "Mama Told Me" off of his latest album.

 

[MuddyDonut]

I was just watching the new Danny Brown back in forth with some dude and he said he doesn't fuck around when talking to females. He just asks if they wanna fuck and if they don't he moves on.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

]I think it's telling that when GKMC dropped, boys didn't tether it to MotM[/B], Below the Heavens or TCD. They went all the way back to Illmatic.

GKMC gets under your skin. It tells a human story in a provocative manner. You don't object to the content - you can't. Kendrick is in full control of everything on this album. Every feature takes cues from his example, and fits in around his story, like true background characters. And no one can tell him shit.

Unless our sensibilities are completely overwritten in the near future, the reasons you liked GKMC on release is the same reason you'll like it next year and the year after. Like a true classic album.

You know it's a classic when it'll take the human singularity event to remove affections for the album.

Lol

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Clyde Carson my fault.

Dude had some good tracks back when. Anything he done lately any use?

 

[K.Jack]

I think it's telling that when GKMC dropped, boys didn't tether it to MotM, Below the Heavens or TCD. They went all the way back to Illmatic.

GKMC gets under your skin. It tells a human story in a provocative manner. You don't object to the content - you can't. Kendrick is in full control of everything on this album. Every feature takes cues from his example, and fits in around his story, like true background characters. And no one can tell him shit.

Unless our sensibilities are completely overwritten in the near future, the reasons you liked GKMC on release is the same reason you'll like it next year and the year after. Like a true classic album.

You know it's a classic when it'll take the human singularity event to remove affections for the album.

Those boys be trippin son. GKMC is not worthy of elevation to Illmatic status. We ain't even about to argue about it either.

 

[enzo_gt]

I wonder what Nasir Jones thinks of GKMC.

He probably doesn't know who Kendrick is.

 

[thabiz]

I will consider GKMC a classic when artists in the next crop and further start dropping it as a major influence and has had a major impact on the musical landscape. Until then its just a album, that may or may not be good.

 

[MuddyDonut]

It's funny how articulate Big Boi is when he is spitting but when he talks you aren't getting any of that.

 

[Trey]

Lol

I meant in the sense of a good debut album.

Those boys be trippin son. GKMC is not worthy of elevation to Illmatic status. We ain't even about to argue about it either.

I wasn't implying it was as good as Illmatic. I was saying that, as a debut, the album people wanted to compare it against was Illmatic, and not far more contemporary albums, which are also good themselves.

 

[Blackace]

I will consider GKMC a classic when artists in the next crop and further start dropping it as a major influence and has had a major impact on the musical landscape. Until then its just a album, that may or may not be good.

Misread that at first

 

[Blackace]

GKMC isn't even the best west coast album this year!

 

[Detox]

While GKMC is well mixed into a cohesive album I don't think the beats themselves can be considered god tier. Similarly the lyrics are not on that level where you can overlook 'weak' (in context of classics) beats.

 

[HiResDes]

You guys are part of the minority. The vast minority.

 

[K.Jack]

I wasn't implying it was as good as Illmatic. I was saying that, as a debut, the album people wanted to compare it against was Illmatic, and not far more contemporary albums, which are also good themselves.

It doesn't even flawless victory Control System. Pause.

 

[overcast]

The west coast was on fire this year, but GKMC was definitely the best album of the year.

 

[HiResDes]

GKMC is a great film, every other album basically in the past decade is merely comprised of great shots.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

GKMC is a fantastic album no doubt. All this talk of not getting an instant classic is kinda bullshit. You know when somethings classic right off. Got that feeling with GKMC. Not the best album ever made no, but its definitely something special.

I guess sometimes you dont realise if an album is great right off. But with a classic you kinda know

 

[enzo_gt]

just started listening to Jesus Piece, was gonna do Big Boi's next first but fuck it

omgwtfbbq at this production

 

[T Dollarz]

Quickly made up my counter list of my 25 "classics" of the past 10 years. Some of these are a bit of a stretch, I'm not even sold that there are 25 classics in the last 10 years lol. But here's what I came up with imo:

• Scarface – The Fix
• The Clipse – Lord Willin’
• Jay-Z – The Black Album
• 50 Cent – Get Rich or Die Tryin’
• Kanye West – College Dropout
• Madvillain – Madvillainy
• MF DOOM – Mm…Food
• CunninLynguists – A Piece of Strange
• Common – Be
• The Game – The Documentary
• Kanye West – Late Registration
• Young Jeezy – TM101
• J. Dilla – Donuts
• Ghostface Killah – FishScale
• Lupe Fiasco – Food & Liquor
• The Clipse – Hell Hath No Fury
• T.I. – King
• Blu & Exile – Below the Heavens
• Lupe Fiasco – The Cool
• Kanye West – Graduation
• Kid Cudi – Man on the Moon
• Kanye West – My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
• Kno – Death Is Silent
• Roc Marciano – Marcberg
• Kendrick Lamar – Good Kid, mAAd City