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Gaf-Hop |OTXII| Avocado Booty Appreciation Thread

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C

Cheddahz

Banned
current jam right now

jerk.gif
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
enzo_gt said:
Lmao, there is no more focused or thematically coherent of a record in Ye's catalog, though you might be able to argue 808s. It's also the most well executed idea from him as well. I find it pretty ridiculous people still romp on about the self-indulgence being a negative point of the album. It's the goddamn theme, and the great production reflects the explosiveness of that. I don't even know where you can begin to call it hollow; it's the peak of Ye's introspection and he pretty much puts everything out on the table, and is a front-to-back criticism of his own self-indulgence.

It really is Ye's defining project. Everything leading up to it was pretense and everything afterwards is reflection.
Click to expand...

....nah, maccas, nah

it's not really thematically cohesive. production fluctuates wildly so it's not sonically either; a number of tracks sort've run into each other and some are so forgettable people don't really notice cause they're still caught up in the grandiose indulgence of Power or overly bombastic shit in All of the Lights they're supposed to forget about lesser stuff like Monster or the tracks no one names.

and yes, while indulgence is the thesis statement, when it doesn't really go anywhere (ye already played his hand on self-consciousness/insecurities/etc tons of times prior so that well was nearly dry anyway) it kinda falls flat - like a lot of his interviews, there's analogies that don't fit and big mythic ideas/names tossed in but unless you're subscribing to the hypebeast mode, again, it's a bunch of flash. there's energy but not the heart of better albums like LR or even 808s if we're being honest.
Blame Game is literally one of the only bits of introspection that i don't recall having heard before.

I'm okay with it being his magnum opus for you, just like MGS4 for gaming side. while it's a shame to have people call such a mixed bag your finest work, i'm pleased there's Snake Eater/College Dropout to actually do what so many wanted these messes to do.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
IrishNinja said:
....nah, maccas, nah

it's not really thematically cohesive. production fluctuates wildly so it's not sonically either; a number of tracks sort've run into each other and some are so forgettable people don't really notice cause they're still caught up in the grandiose indulgence of Power or overly bombastic shit in All of the Lights they're supposed to forget about lesser stuff like Monster or the tracks no one names.

and yes, while indulgence is the thesis statement, when it doesn't really go anywhere (ye already played his hand on self-consciousness/insecurities/etc tons of times prior so that well was nearly dry anyway) it kinda falls flat - like a lot of his interviews, there's analogies that don't fit and big mythic ideas/names tossed in but unless you're subscribing to the hypebeast mode, again, it's a bunch of flash. there's energy but not the heart of better albums like LR or even 808s if we're being honest.
Blame Game is literally one of the only bits of introspection that i don't recall having heard before.

I'm okay with it being his magnum opus for you, just like MGS4 for gaming side. while it's a shame to have people call such a mixed bag your finest work, i'm pleased there's Snake Eater/College Dropout to actually do what so many wanted these messes to do.
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It is thematically cohesive. It's Kanye's dark fantasies that permeate his life and destroy it. Then again, if you didn't get it then, I don't expect you to get it now. The theme and it's progression from Kanye at the height of his bravado to the remorse, regret and loss is clear as hell. How does it not go anywhere? Tracks like Gorgeous and Power transition him from simply bathing in his self-indulgence in Dark Fantasy from questioning when the steam will run out. And then it does halfway through the album in a blaze of glory in AOTL, where he feels he redeemed himself but the world doesn't. Then he tries to play the villain role, but it doesn't work, he tries being apologetic, and that doesn't work, and then he's left with nothing but a glint of optimism.

So many of MBDTF's complaints are completely unfounded, but I don't expect people to get it because they all carry that same selective ignorance slash trolling when it breaks down. Because it's either over the head or too shallow all at the same time; production too consistently bombastic and self-indulgent however too all over the place at the same time (as if this isn't a linking thread that is also thematically relevant). I don't even know how you can throw LR out there if we're talking any sense of cohesion or the criticisms you throw at MBDTF, because LR is pretty scatterbrain and no project has as much attention to detail of carrying a narrative, being introspective, sequencing, diversity while maintaining coherence etc. as MBDTF does for Ye.
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
GKMC is a great album as a whole but I aint bumping anything from it aside from bitch don't kill my vibe these days.

mbdtf i can bump more for sure.

Blasian Persuasion said:
What do y'all think about the other aspects of Hip-Hop? Graffiti, dancing, beatboxing, and fashion?
Click to expand...

viewtiful and his squad jerks outside his local 7/11 every few weeks.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Myggen said:
Is there a MBDTF backlash now?
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Nahl; vocal, extreme minority. Same people then and now, same people who went sideways when 808s/VMA microphone dropped. The album always gets unfairly treated, or otherwise minor criticisms get blown up in the context of MBDTF/substantiated by the same stuff MBDTF critiques. I think for the most part people have difficulty detaching College Dropout and the notion that MBDTF might just be better so they take up the contrarian position.
 
N

Nibel

Member
Blasian Persuasion said:
What do y'all think about the other aspects of Hip-Hop? Graffiti, dancing, beatboxing, and fashion?
Click to expand...

Thinking about it, all of these are pretty much dead

Graffiti: All people care about is what Banksy is putting out next.

Dancing? We went from 'real' dancing to twerking, shake a single body part in a specific manner or

kendrick-lamar-i-mtv-3-1415134573.gif


Beatboxing: Pls

Fashion: everybody looks fucking stupid except for the realkeepers. Haute couture slaves wherever you are looking
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
that's quite the fan fic you have there, enzoes. maybe you're a Suda51 fan too

forgive my ignorance here then but where was all that in Devil in a New Dress, Runaway & Hell of a Life, are those villanous or apologies or what? I have a hard time letting them play through, not because they're weak but possibly over my head & all

also it gets shat on over here but LR doesn't pretend to be cohesive (or require fan narratives like a drunken David Lynch story); it just has more enjoyable tracks overall and is therefore an album i dig more since most of what's canon is right there on the tracks. Really trying to not to namedrop Halo here

though you're quite right about them being different albums with different goals, here is where GKMC shines: kenny can be a storyteller, and not only does that flow from the source material, most tracks can be enjoyed out of context as well. I don't know how many tracks of MBDTF that can be said of, because like reinstalling individual chapters in MGS4, the playthrough doesn't strike me as worth the effort.

Myggen said:
Is there a MBDTF backlash now?
Click to expand...

yes but pitchfork said things so these crazies must be contrarian/haters/on some ol bullshit lemme go mansplain it to em nahmean
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
IrishNinja said:
that's quite the fan fic you have there, enzoes. maybe you're a Suda51 fan too

forgive my ignorance here then but where was all that in Devil in a New Dress, Runaway & Hell of a Life, are those villanous or apologies or what? I have a hard time letting them play through, not because they're weak but possibly over my head & all

also it gets shat on over here but LR doesn't pretend to be cohesive (or require fan narratives like a drunken David Lynch story); it just has more enjoyable tracks overall and is therefore an album i dig more since most of what's canon is right there on the tracks. Really trying to not to namedrop Halo here

though you're quite right about them being different albums with different goals, here is where GKMC shines: kenny can be a storyteller, and not only does that flow from the source material, most tracks can be enjoyed out of context as well. I don't know how many tracks of MBDTF that can be said of, because like reinstalling individual chapters in MGS4, the playthrough doesn't strike me as worth the effort.
Click to expand...
Those tracks are all part of his attempt to find himself again, and lead into pretty much his last ditch attempt in Blame Game. If he can't revel in his villainy, he looks for attachment, tries to close in but push away when he has hedonistic desires. And he fucks that up (cheating on Amber with Kelly Divine/Kim Kardashian).

If anything is canon, it's MBDTF. It's Ye's life on wax. None of his albums are truer to the person that Ye is. So yeah, I think LR is the fanfiction in this analogy. I think Kendrick is a better storyteller in general, but he couldn't possibly do what MBDTF does. Partially because he's yet to tell or frankly experience anything as complex as Kanye's simultaneous war with reality and his ego. Let's not sit here and say that the story in GKMC was as novel as that in MBDTF.

I've said it before but if you're invested in Kanye's life i.e. you're outchea reading all the blogs and participating in any of the backlash to the actual stupid things he does or his creative journey (i.e. pretty much the regulars), you should understand the theme of MBDTF because it pretty much enriches his character and provides that additional layer of depth behind the Henny & the waves. Nobody is saying the shit is Shakespeare, but with the type of shit that gets praised otherwise, it might as well be for how multifaceted it is.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
I guess the crucial difference is rappers explicitly make diss tracks in response, that draw a lot of attention since music in their main form of content anyway. Other entertainment/art forms you usually hear that shit through interviews on some Bette Davis/Joan Crawford diva shit.
 
C

Cheddahz

Banned
If I have to be invested into someone's life to fully understand and enjoy an album, then it's not a good album. A good album is one I can just pick up and listen to whenever
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Cheddahz said:
If I have to be invested into someone's life to fully understand and enjoy an album, then it's not a good album. A good album is one I can just pick up and listen to whenever
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But it's not a necessity, or a prerequisite. Unless you're illiterate, in which case, can't do much there.

I'm just saying, if you're an enthusiast, I'm not quite sure how any of this can go over your head, which goes back to my other point about the hypocrisy when criticizing themes.
 
E

Esch

Banned
make albums for dickriders brehs

seriously though, it's just a good solid album, people blow MBTDF up too much.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Cheddahz said:
"Eminem's whole discography sucks" - Courage

Honestly though, I like a few songs off of MBDTF, but I can never listen to the full album
Click to expand...

remind me, did we ever come to a consensus on Em's whole discography being garbage or are still on that "nah I love his first two albums when I heard them as I was going through puberty in grade school fam"

I know on Illmatic we've gone from "best rap album ever breh" to "well maybe just best rap album of 94" to "man IDK the second half isn't as good man I always turn it off after The World Is Yours", so I'd like to know where we all stand on that
 
S

Syph Medwes

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
remind me, did we ever come to a consensus on Em's whole discography being garbage or are still on that "nah I love his first two albums when I heard them as I was going through puberty in grade school fam"

I know on Illmatic we've gone from "best rap album ever breh" to "well maybe just best rap album of 94" to "man IDK the second half isn't as good man I always turn it off after The World Is Yours", so I'd like to know where we all stand on that
Click to expand...

first 3 are still classic
especially the GOAT MMLP
dated references don't matter

but we'll leave that discussion for later lol we have a cycle to partake in

edit: lol I see you Count throwing in that EP and OD
 
C

CountBlack

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
remind me, did we ever come to a consensus on Em's whole discography being garbage or are still on that "nah I love his first two albums when I heard them as I was going through puberty in grade school fam"

I know on Illmatic we've gone from "best rap album ever breh" to "well maybe just best rap album of 94" to "man IDK the second half isn't as good man I always turn it off after The World Is Yours", so I'd like to know where we all stand on that
Click to expand...

first 3 are still classic
especially the GOAT MMLP
dated references don't matter

but we'll leave that discussion for later lol we have a cycle to partake in
 
T

The Return of

Banned
ViewtifulJC said:
remind me, did we ever come to a consensus on Em's whole discography being garbage or are still on that "nah I love his first two albums when I heard them as I was going through puberty in grade school fam"

I know on Illmatic we've gone from "best rap album ever breh" to "well maybe just best rap album of 94" to "man IDK the second half isn't as good man I always turn it off after The World Is Yours", so I'd like to know where we all stand on that
Click to expand...
Nah, but you see how we did Lupe so it can be done to Em too
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
illmatic is still great, and eminem's first few albums are still pretty good too. his humorous songs have aged horribly tho.

and most kanye albums > section 80 >= gkmc > late registration > cruel summer/wtt > graduation
 
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