The crux of the issue really is that at best town Bronx made a bad play and has done nothing since. That is not a very good best-case-scenario by any means and it certainly does not warrant statements like "i trust bronx 110% he is yay!". If Bronx is town I want him to do more. There is no reason to be a passive townie.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Gafia 3 [Mafia] | Welcome to Lynchwood Acres
- Thread starter Ourobolus
- Start date
The crux of the issue really is that at best town Bronx made a bad play and has done nothing since. That is not a very good best-case-scenario by any means and it certainly does not warrant statements like "i trust bronx 110% he is yay!". If Bronx is town I want him to do more. There is no reason to be a passive townie.
What other inconsistencies are there? Like I don't trust him either but the buck stops at his weird claim that he can't be roleblocked.
The balance is that once Bronx claims scum would use a lynch on him because the poisoner (neutral) would be more likely to kill townies.
The fact Bronx lives is telling me either the poisoner has been targeting scum or scum is being very cautious. Your constant pushing for the lynch of Bronx is one of the main reasons I am sceptical of you.
--
Did I miss someone claiming poisoned today?
Want to try the bolded again? It doesn't make sense. I know you're exacerbated, take it slow.
Even better, "the poisoner has been targeting scum" have they now?
I AM NATIKO
I AM A "PAIN MEDICATION HOARDER"
I AM AN ASCETIC POISON DOCTOR
LITERALLY NO POWER ROLE HAS ANY EFFECT ON ME, WHICH IS WHY I HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY THAT ROLE-BLOCKING WILL HAVE ANY EFFECT ON ME BECAUSE NOTHING HAS ANY EFFECT ON ME
DO YOU GET IT NOW???????
HUH?
HUH?
DO YOU GET IT?
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS ON THE SCREEN AM I TYPING?
HUH?
HUH?
And for the role thing, I thought Kyan was sayong did I realize my role could be manipulated by others aka "Stan could be scum", which I didn't seriously think about until it was brought up to me.
That's really OP. And the poisoner is really screwed. It's really hard to believe.
I'm not exacerbated.
Scum have an interest in getting townies killed. Once Bronx claimed the logical move would be to kill him to that poisoned players could not be healed.
However Scum have clearly decided not to go down that road and allow Bronx to heal players. The question now is no longer about balance of the game. The question is why scum have decided on this tactic.
Are scum letting him live so people like you can and force a town lynch on Bronx or are they letting him live because they would rather not die to the poisoner.
Lynch me then. If I'm the big fat liar you all think I am, lynch me to see if I'm telling the truth.
You mean all of like 2 people?
It's funny because you aren't even reading my posts today. I'm not trying to lynch Bronx, I haven't wanted to lynch him ever since his claim. Being suspicious of him and his impartial truths is not the same as wanting to lynch him.
Ummm did you just admit you are scum? Do you agree that the day end was between you, Vere and acohrs? And you are scum-reading me because...I didn't vote for you?
Sorry, I just need you to explain your concerns better so I can address them properly.
Why Dragonz? You seem very sure of yourself.
I hate to bring this up because I do agree with the whole meta argument (I hate lynching people solely on the grounds of meta) but there is one thing that really annoys any scum player. It has certainly irritated me in the past. It's when people scum-read you for no concrete reason, even though you feel you have done nothing to deserve the scum-read, in fact, maybe you're really proud of your fake townie play. So while I understand the point Dragonz is making, I could definitely see a scum Dragonz posting that
I think Faddy means that scum would want to NK Bronx (not lynch). I think I remember him interchanging those terms before.
Considering scum only has 4 people left at most, yeah, that's quite the number. I don't remember who all was in batman, anyone here?
Disagree. You either believe he is telling the truth and let him play his own game or you keep hunting and pecking looking for flaws in his claim which can be used as a reason to lynch him later.
What do you think of his early suspicion on Blarg and Blarg flipping scum?
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
That seems stupid OP. A permanent commuter poison doc? What's the catch?
Not a commuter. Ascetic is immune to all but kills. And the downside of it is that it is impossible to verify without flipping the player.
Town lies all the time, as does scum, as does neutrals. Lying in and of itself is not "scummy" I knew there was more to is story. I hadn't considered ascetic but it makes a lot of sense. I don't need to blindly trust someone to think they are on the same team as me and I would be foolish if I did considering I think I've lied in every single game I've ever played regardless of alignment.
That seems stupid OP. A permanent commuter serial killer? What's the catch?
Oh, he's a cop too? WTF!
.....
Also, he isn't a commuter, he is ascetic, commuters can't die, Bronx can.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Oh. I didn't know what an ascetic was. My b
I don't think much of it tbh. Was there any mood in the thread for lynching Blarg?
His vote on Blarg was very interesting to me. At the time you had two votes and Crab and Burb had 3. Sorian removing his vote from you basically took you out the running for the lynch.
And while he voted for Blarg he never put together any real case for doing so, instead he said he was shaking up the meta which is a really weak reason imo. A few scrambling posts later he says it is because he has a better read of Blarg than Swamped. That still isn't making an argument for lynching Blarg.
So Sorian does not accrue any Townie Points for the way he handled Blarg.
But if you read Bronx as town and are sure he is a poison doctor why do you need to question him more. What do you want him to say Sorian? "oh btw I'm X shot" or some other mechanic that might nerf him.
Better to keep that quiet and if there is a twist to his role let scum worry about it.
Why, it's almost as if scum was poking and prodding at me to "fully claim" so that way they could fully know what they're dealing with.
I said multiple times that Blarg was clearly scum because he was not attempting to solve the game. I put that vote down because none of you sounded interested in Swamped and I have a much easier time reading Blarg so I figured I'd try that avenue since I was much more sure and see if I could get some of the sheepy town players to follow me (because sorry, but with the pace of this game, we clearly have a lot of town that are fine just following the flow down river).
What does it even matter? No one was poisoned today, either the poisoner is out of shots or someone role blocked them last night. Either way they are likely out of commission (or they tried to poison you like an idiot considering poison doctors are pretty much always immune to the poison they heal).
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
this is effectively the same, but a funny idea anyway.
maybe the poisoner (assuming its a neutral in this case) poisoned LP, but him also being NK'd meant it was for nothing.
actually LP would kinda fit the pattern so far, me, nin, and LP. all pretty low impact out of the way player?
UNVOTE
Like I can see the madness being possible, I can see the simple argument too being possible. The panic always fit the scene and the player. Ascetic explains other things than the oddities as well, maybe the missing poison comes from the fact that the poisoner tried to hit Bronx.
Should this be true, what does this tell of the poisoner? Hmm. We'll see I guess.
Like I can see the madness being possible, I can see the simple argument too being possible. The panic always fit the scene and the player. Ascetic explains other things than the oddities as well, maybe the missing poison comes from the fact that the poisoner tried to hit Bronx.
Should this be true, what does this tell of the poisoner? Hmm. We'll see I guess.
You're trying so hard. I have to scrutinize him to find out if I want to lynch him or not. Aside from day 1, I never had the desire to lynch him over other targets. That could have changed during the questioning and such. I never said that I 100% trusted Bronx until today because I didn't. You're pretending there is a clear line in the soil between town and scum reads when there isn't. There are varying degrees.
This is a fair point and slightly different. I don't subscribe to the coincidence though.
Here is my main problem with you Sorian.
You have all these reads that are generally well reasoned but you never push for your reads. And at the end of all days your vote has been a following vote. And when you do make a read like Blarg it feels passive and you don't do much to try and convince people to your side.
I agree that many lynches have been sheepy but you need to at least put in some effort if you want it to swing your way. Even your vote on TWE isn't really about his play but about his read of Bronx.
I had a feeling. Oh well.
Do share any more reads if you have them.
You also said that you only scum-read him because of his pudding...
---
Burb and a bit of TWE
In general I have felt that Burb has been quite quiet in this game. He had a poisoner mixup on D2 after which he was super quiet. But he went back to poisoner discussion on D3 (bringing up the possibility of a neutral poisoner). Even though he made a faux pas on D2, he wanted to discuss this controversial topic again. I lean slightly town because of that. On D3 Burb was the one to start the TWE train. LP followed a couple of posts later and he was town. Looking back through Burb's arguments for TWE, they seem to be pretty cogent. First votes him for coasting. I also want to remind people that TWE voted for Stan on D2 after he claimed he was poisoned lol. That's when I started leaning town on him, because would scum be so nonchalant about reading the thread lol? Burb returns after Blarg's untimely demise. He decides to stay with TWE because of the desperation in his posts. TWE has several posts like this (#2632, #2654) and #2649)
Burb ultimately switches to Vere, saying it will help elucidate the end of D2 (Crab vs Vere).
I lean slightly town on Burb, because looking back through his posts I understand where he is coming from and why he made the decisions he did. He is definitely a lot quieter and less analyzy, but there could be reasons for that.
Unsure about TWE now. Would like to hear back from him about the questions I asked earlier.
I'm generally busier than I used to be. I enjoy playing mafia but I do not have the time to keep my thread presence up which means I can't mind game people into following me with little questioning. So all you get is "well reasoned" reads (as if that is a bad thing). At the end of the day, unlike some of you who feel the need to be prideful, which will be the reason town lost if we do lose by the way, I'm not such shit to pretend that I can sit on the sidelines on some moral high ground and just vote wherever the fuck I please. As the deadline gets closer, unless we fire drill onto a new target, we are pigeon holed into 2 or 3 votes and if everyone isn't voting there then scum easily can decide those votes which means we are always fucked unless it happens to be only scum in contention for the lynch. Let's talk about your bullshit on my TWE vote though.
I see 3 reasons there and only one of them is about Bronx. Would you like to try that again?
I don't know why people keep doing this. Crab tried to do this same shit. Could we stop doing this please.
For the record I already said that I thought is was a bad idea to try to lynch you until the poisoner is dead.
So we should just leave people who claim alone, even when their claims are full of holes?
Also Bronx isn't playing the game at all. He is just defending himself. Do you remember any read from Bronx?
Again, that's not how it works. Scum can also false claim. We can wait until "scum worry about it".
You claimed on your own. When there was no need. And been giving mixed info that didn't add up. And you were riding on your roleclaim so far. You could excuse us for being worried.
Had nothing to do with the pudding, it says clearly right there it was him being scared into inactivity. Blarg is the easiest read no matter how much people want to pretend otherwise. Wait for him to exit his early stage trolling, usually day 2, in rare cases day 3. Now read his posts. Does he have a read he is pushing with consistent logic? If yes, he is town, if no, he is scum or neutral. That's it. So yes, his inactivity lent a lot to this, he never made a read because he was never posting, but even in the 3 or 4 posts he had there was nothing.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
DAY 4 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:
acohrs (2)
flatearthpandas 2750
StanleyPalmtree 2793
Swamped (2)
TheWorthyEdge 2791
*Splinter 2898
Faddy (1)
CCS 2816
WhereAreMahDragonz (1)
Gorlak 2913
Sorian (1)
Faddy 2903
TheWorthyEdge (1)
Sorian 2910
Gorlak (1)
Kawl_USC 2835
*Splinter (1)
Swamped 2783
Bronx-Man (0):Kyanrute 2911 2977
No active vote for Day 4: acohrs, Bronx-Man, Burbeting, franconp, Kyanrute (has previously voted), WhereAreMahDragonz
Day 4 ends:
Automated vote tally here
9 votes for majority
acohrs (2)
flatearthpandas 2750
StanleyPalmtree 2793
Swamped (2)
TheWorthyEdge 2791
*Splinter 2898
Faddy (1)
CCS 2816
WhereAreMahDragonz (1)
Gorlak 2913
Sorian (1)
Faddy 2903
TheWorthyEdge (1)
Sorian 2910
Gorlak (1)
Kawl_USC 2835
*Splinter (1)
Swamped 2783
Bronx-Man (0):
No active vote for Day 4: acohrs, Bronx-Man, Burbeting, franconp, Kyanrute (has previously voted), WhereAreMahDragonz
Day 4 ends:
Automated vote tally here
9 votes for majority
For bonus points (@ Swamped), I do agree with you on Burb and honestly, I would be unsurprised if he is the poisoner. He seems to care the most about the actual poisoning and keeps going for "gotcha!" moments on people with info that pertains to poisonings. Burb tends to play with his heart on his sleeve so occam's razor just puts him as the poisoner that feels the need to keep bringing up the mechanic. I've debated that already but I haven't pushed it because I don't care. The poisoner is likely neutral and we may have to lynch them eventually but there is enough player base and a poison doctor that I just don't care at the moment. We are behind on scum lynches, that is what needs to be solved.
As the deadline gets closer you have been the one decrying the lack of action specifically on Day 1 and 2. The main theme of both those days were that the two trains were town/town so you agitating to force action has created a whole lot of noise at the end of days which has been a distraction.
So your pattern of play is to make a read then play passive until the deadline when you start stirring things once it is clear a townie is going to be lynched.
The obvious question is why would I care? You're accusing me of being scum so if I was coasting and everyone was fine with it, why would I come out to play when town is about to be lynched anyway? But sure, let's follow these quotes back and see what they lead to.
Quote 1 leads into Crab sitting with 6 votes and Bronx and Swamped sitting close behind wit 3 and 2 votes respectively. Ok, Crab is town, we don't know the alignment of the other two so "those two days with town/town trains" eh? Even better just a few posts below me:
Uh huh.
Let's go check out the second quote then. Crab at 9 votes! With 4 people behind him, 1 at 3 votes and the other 3 at 2. Only Vere is dead from that group. So first off, where are these "town/town" trains you are talking about, I see one guy largely in the lead at both of those quotes and he was town. So what am I distracting from? Wouldn't I be content with Crab being lynched? Why would I call both times for people to mix it up? Want in on a secret? While I do believe we need multiple wagons at day end for interesting voting to trip up scum, I also did both those plays so that anyone else would come into contention against Crab. I never wanted Crab lynched. The closest I came was near his actual lynch because I had weird suspicions around him not willing to claim but otherwise, Crab is a string player and nothing people were getting pissy about was scummy, it was just him asserting his dominating force and people not liking it because they were being contrarian or scum trying to get him out of here before people starting trusting Crab. Faddy, it's clear you didn't have a reason when you first voted for me today and every time I counter, you just go dredge something new. This wasn't a fight you wanted to pick.
Don't use my poor play to excuse your own.
My point is that you only start to make a push once it becomes clear that a townie has a large vote lead. Your defence of Crab can be seen in a couple of ways. That you town read him and didn't want him lynched OR you knew he was town and wanted to earn yourself Townie Points by being his biggest defender when it looked highly likely he was going to be lynched.
Town/Town trains.
Day 1 - Crab vs Swamped were the two trains you tried to engineer
Day 2 - Crab made it clear he wanted to go after me or Vere. If either gained traction it would be a town/town train making your plea for the vote to close up a safe play for scum.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
No? I just said that if you thought I was more scum than someone else but decided to vote them because they were more interactive then I find that stupid. If you were town you would want someone with more interactions that stays in the game.
Idk. There was a post he made (I'll find it) and it just triggered inside of me that he's town.
Do you know something we don't Faddy?
I think everyone can read it for themselves
That isn't the issue and we've already talked about this. I did have intention of tipping the scales into Swamped there. That's not a secret but that isn't me "engineering" Crab vs. Swamped. I called what was happening. We were so late in the day that it was either those two or us swinging into a random third party with no time at all. Squidy wasn't one of the formal wagons at that stage.
VOTE: Faddy
Thanks for clearing Swamped on your way out.
What is not a good look? Please explain and be very specific.
Only a few people know swampeds alignment at the moment....
Those of the non town variety
Ok, looking forward to the quote.
Regarding my D3 end votes, I would suggest you read posts 2783, 2828, 2837, 2849 and 2857.
But did you really have the intention on voting for Swamped or did you see CCS vote for Swamped and decide that was the townie you wanted to push into contention with Crab.
If you were really for voting for Swamped why didn't you make the vote? Again just Sorian sitting passively on the side lines.
I haven't "cleared" Swamped but I have made it clear I am town reading Swamped.
This isn't the GOTCHA moment you think it is.