Support NeoGAF

[Faddy]

yawn

bronx was a ez scum kill because he could've not been protected so it was just about whether or not scum trusted his claim.

nobody is claiming poison soooo we once again can be entertaining a x-shot scummie and with that it might be possible that the shots have now been used and this thing fades into the nothingness as a pointless topic of discussion.

so if scum have da poison, sorian got vigi'd me thinks. and even if poison still is neutral or something wild i can't see scum saving an additional kill this late. neutral origin possible as well but hard to speculate about what it'd exactly be.

stan does the strange and votes for a dead acorn, burb too had misunderstanding back at the start of d2. both have been doing very little overall. both being scum and doing the same juke seems daring, one being scum possible imo.

I assumed Bronx was got by the poisoner. He couldn't cure because he used his 2 shots on stan and nin.

Scum lynched Sorian. With no possible cure if anyone claims poisoned I would read that as scum play since it would be beneficial for us to have scum target into a poisoned townie.

 

[Faddy]

Oh shit that makes 0 sense since Bronx was ascetic.

So Sorian was poisoned and stayed quiet?

 

[Kyanrute]

I'd imagine ascetic blocks the poison as well because it does not kill instantly. Why wouldn't Sorian mention if he was poisoned? He was town. Surely he would've realized that it is valuable to know if and when the poisonings stop coming.

 

[Kyanrute]

Oh and nin died before Bronx could cure him.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Also I really doubt bronx used a cure on nin. Given that nin died before the night phase.

 

[Faddy]

Also I really doubt bronx used a cure on nin. Given that nin died before the night phase.

Good point. So the conclusion here is that Sorian cold have saved himself but didn't because he hates Bronx.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Sure do wish burb said more than nothing at all when he was here.

 

[franconp]

I don't think so. Sorian wouldn't do that. If he was poisoned he would have said so.

I think it's more likely someone have an x-shot and used either on Sorian or Bronx or a veteran. Sorian could have tried to send a message and he got killed for it. Did anyone said if he got a message from Sorian? He would have sent one.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Good point. So the conclusion here is that Sorian cold have saved himself but didn't because he hates Bronx.

Without bringing up roles that we have no reason to believe exists. That does seem to be the only conclusion left. However wasn't sorians last stance on bronx that he was trusting him?

 

[Kyanrute]

I am being a bit all over the place to be honest and I understand that that may "look" bad, but I feel it makes more sense to be all over the place if you're town. If you are scum you know who town is and you go at them hard throughout the whole game. You stick to a couple people.

VOTE: Franconp

The main person who has been complaining about me being all over the place.

Another generalization that ain't true in all cases. Ain't even the 1st one from TWE iirc. And the vote is ugh like fran already said.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Woah quite defensive for only having one vote on you.

Man this is so stupid.

Twe: 'makes asinine accusation'
F: 'Heres why that is dumb'
Twe: 'Woah hey now. So defensive'

Twe im really struggling to tell if you are scummy as all hell or just a really bad town player.

 

[Kyanrute]

I don't think so. Sorian wouldn't do that. If he was poisoned he would have said so.

I think it's more likely someone have an x-shot and used either on Sorian or Bronx or a veteran. Sorian could have tried to send a message and he got killed for it. Did anyone said if he got a message from Sorian? He would have sent one.

Hmm the mystery of the missing message.

1) Message had a lower priority than kill - Sorian died before he could send the message.
2) Sorian sent the message to Bronx. We know from Blarg's flip that the messages aren't shown when their recipient dies.
3) Message had higher priority than kill and Sorian was blocked. Contradicts Splinter's story.
4) Sorian did not send a message.
5) Sorian did send a message but the person who got it is not mentioning it because something.

Impossible to know which one it is so I don't think there is much we can gather from this.

 

[franconp]

Hmm the mystery of the missing message.

1) Message had a lower priority than kill - Sorian died before he could send the message.
2) Sorian sent the message to Bronx. We know from Blarg's flip that the messages aren't shown when their recipient dies.
3) Message had higher priority than kill and Sorian was blocked. Contradicts Splinter's story.
4) Sorian did not send a message.
5) Sorian did send a message but the person who got it is not mentioning it because something.

Impossible to know which one it is so I don't think there is much we can gather from this.

Maybe not from that but we should know why there was 2 kills last night. There were only one kill for night before. What changed? Could it happen again?

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Maybe not from that but we should know why there was 2 kills last night. There were only one kill for night before. What changed? Could it happen again?

Night before was only 1 kill because the poisoned (nin) died early. The poisoner is the only extra killing role we have seen any trace of.

 

[franconp]

Night before was only 1 kill because the poisoned (nin) died early. The poisoner is the only extra killing role we have seen any trace of.

Do you really think that poisoned Sorian wouldn't have asked Bronx to cure him? It doesn't go with my reads of Sorian at all. He even talked about why noone claimed poisoned the last phase. He could have bring his own status up.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Weekend busy shit. Sorry.

Sorian kill points me towards a town killing role. Trying to either find the scum in the two wagons or help us get onto another track.

The discussion around the shared bullet proof reminds me, if we have a vig and you took a shot st someone and it didn't work. Please come forward it's far more likely that person is the other BP scum than anything else.

TWE play continues to be sloppy as all get out. But after sloppy play not being indicative of a scum acohrs like I thought I'm less sure this is a good lynch.

In a few hours I'll have some free time to sit down and really put some effort into reassessing this game. I am sorry for not being as contributive as I have been in the past. Social life is taking off which is good for everything but mafia.

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

Man this is so stupid.

Twe: 'makes asinine accusation'
F: 'Heres why that is dumb'
Twe: 'Woah hey now. So defensive'

Twe im really struggling to tell if you are scummy as all hell or just a really bad town player.

Ding ding ding

 

[*Splinter]

So who killed Sorian?

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Do you really think that poisoned Sorian wouldn't have asked Bronx to cure him? It doesn't go with my reads of Sorian at all. He even talked about why noone claimed poisoned the last phase. He could have bring his own status up.

your right, sorians actions in that scenario really dont make much sense, but its the only logical conclusion we can come to with the facts we have.
there certainly could be something else here, some other killing role we are unaware of, but we dont have any way of knowing right now.

 

[*Splinter]

Why did you neither target Crab or swamped?

A cop should target people who will be difficult to resolve otherwise. Crab is likely to die early when town, also both were already at the centre of discussion by end of day one. It would have been a waste to target one of them rather than a lurker.

Faddy didn't have enough heat to be likely to be lynched but more than enough to not be NK'd. I was also struggling to read him despite his reasonable activity.

 

[franconp]

So who killed Sorian?

So no post restriction? You were just drunk?

your right, sorians actions in that scenario really dont make much sense, but its the only logical conclusion we can come to with the facts we have.
there certainly could be something else here, some other killing role we are unaware of, but we dont have any way of knowing right now.

We have an item sender. Maybe an item did that?

 

[*Splinter]

So no post restriction? You were just drunk?

Yes

 

[*Splinter]

Hmm the mystery of the missing message.

1) Message had a lower priority than kill - Sorian died before he could send the message.
2) Sorian sent the message to Bronx. We know from Blarg's flip that the messages aren't shown when their recipient dies.
3) Message had higher priority than kill and Sorian was blocked. Contradicts Splinter's story.
4) Sorian did not send a message.
5) Sorian did send a message but the person who got it is not mentioning it because something.

Impossible to know which one it is so I don't think there is much we can gather from this.

I wonder if Sorian messaged Bronx to tell him he was poisoned...

No idea why he would, and if the poison takes 1 phase then Bronx wouldn't even get a chance to save him.

I assumed Sorian was Vigi'd, but I don't know why noone claimed it yet.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Yes

think that makes 3 of us.

looking more and more likely that gafia drives people into alcoholism.

 

[franconp]

Splinter did you said what you did night 3?

Also why roleclaim if you knew there was a roleblocker in play?

 

[*Splinter]

Splinter did you said what you did night 3?

No I didn't

Also why roleclaim if you knew there was a roleblocker in play?

I already explained this yesterday

 

[Kawl_USC]

your right, sorians actions in that scenario really dont make much sense, but its the only logical conclusion we can come to with the facts we have.
there certainly could be something else here, some other killing role we are unaware of, but we dont have any way of knowing right now.

I find it far more likely there is a town killing role in s game this large than for a town sorian to act so against his and towns own benefit. I don't like how you seem to be saying since we have seen no evidence (you know besides a kill that doesn't make sense from a poisoner) we can't possibly make any reasonable assumptions about set up

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

I find it far more likely there is a town killing role in s game this large than for a town sorian to act so against his and towns own benefit. I don't like how you seem to be saying since we have seen no evidence (you know besides a kill that doesn't make sense from a poisoner) we can't possibly make any reasonable assumptions about set up

more that i dont really see those assumptions leading anywhere definitively helpful, and we arnt in much of a position to make calls on giant maybes.

 

[Kawl_USC]

more that i dont really see those assumptions leading anywhere definitively helpful, and we arnt in much of a position to make calls on giant maybes.

And I counter it's just as big an assumption that sorian wouldn't say something.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

DAY 5 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

franconp (1)
TheWorthyEdge 3333

Burbeting (1)
TheWorthyEdge 3257 3313
StanleyPalmtree 3263

WhereAreMahDragonz (1)
Gorlak 3317

Swamped (0): Faddy 3292 3329, TheWorthyEdge 3313 3333

No active vote for Day 5: *Splinter, Burbeting, CCS, Faddy (has previously voted), flatearthpandas, franconp, Kawl_USC, Kyanrute, Swamped, WhereAreMahDragonz


Day 5 ends:

Automated vote tally here

7 votes for majority

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

And I counter it's just as big an assumption that sorian wouldn't say something.

......

oh yeah, well... well.....


your face is an assumption!

 

[Gorlak]

I glanced at TWE a bit.

I really couldn't see the case for TWE at the start of D3 and neither Burb nor LP provided a reasonable justification at that time. But in retrospective his defense is absurd. He went full "it's useless to kill me" mode while repeating the same in short posts over a short timeframe.

Points of interest:
*believes Bronx 100% at the start of D4
*thinks Dragonz is town just because of these 2 posts
*subtle role fishing

Highlight:
*his read list - after splinter claim town lean, but scum lean on faddy
and interestingly a town lean on Sorian.
This was after he voted for Sorian. He sheeped faddy's argument against Sorian, who just happened to have voted against TWE not long before. (Also take note his scum read of swamped here.)

Today he starts with a Burb vote and

I'm down for voting swamped as well. She's on my reads list as possible scum, but so is Burb. I'm willing to vote for either one. If Swamped flips mafia I have a hunch on who to go with next.

changes it to swamped.

Until... yeah what happened here TWE?

I am unsure that TWE lynch is the right move... I feel like he's town.

The first post afterward swamped's post in response to why you vote her.

I think she's scum and if lynched will provide for some good information.

But in the next one suddenly:

Hm...kind of inclined to believe Swamped to be honest.

I'm going to look back on some things but I feel there could be scum in a list of:

Franconp
CCS
Burb

You change your vote to fran because you feel he's the main critic of you.

And I'd like to point out that here the possible scum team, swamped is not a part anymore, the one you voted at the start of the day, remember? And WAMD, the one that you totally feel is town, is on the list.

---
Between being defensive, blindly trusting Bronx and poking for a role claim from Fran, his other actions do not put me in a good mood. All of the above shows that TWE is extremely aware of how people perceive him and how he changes his stance towards persons accordingly. He alters his reads on the fly, without any reasons. This is evidence that he has reason to observe how he comes across, something a townie would not feel the need to.

 

[Gorlak]

If no one is following me on my lead against WAMD, I at least can get fully behind a TWE lynch.

 

[franconp]

I need to re-read last day that I mostly missed. It's 1.20am, but I'll try to do it before going to bed.



Working on it.

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

If no one is following me on my lead against WAMD, I at least can get fully behind a TWE lynch.

Then have fun being set behind another day.

---
Between being defensive, blindly trusting Bronx and poking for a role claim from Fran, his other actions do not put me in a good mood. All of the above shows that TWE is extremely aware of how people perceive him and how he changes his stance towards persons accordingly. He alters his reads on the fly, without any reasons. This is evidence that he has reason to observe how he comes across, something a townie would not feel the need to.

B1) Was I wrong to trust him? I mean he did turn out to be town, no? Sure that looks "scummy" because only scum knows who's actually town, but a man can't change his mind after some time?

B2) Was not meaning to prod to get a roleclaim I was simply stating that we didn't know what he was. That was completely my fault and something that does not translate well to a game of TEXT mafia. It was more or less me saying "and we don't know what franconp" is.

B3) Is someone not allowed to change their reads? I mean honestly, yes they may be quick changes in reads but everybody does that in their heads just not in the thread. That's how I do it, in the thread. I want everyone to know what I'm thinking. Idk...

B4) I have reason to be wary of how people percieve me because I want Town to win, and so I don't want Town to vote me out. Is it really that hard?

Eh, idk if text mafia is for me tbh. Feels like it always comes back to this point. I'm gonna continue playing as I do until I die.

 

[Gorlak]

Vote: Kyanrute

You seem awfully content with how the game is going. You've been withdrawing yourself or at least I feel you contribute less. I get the feeling that no one has questioned you the whole game?

Why do you care about poison, mechanics and night actions more than about finding scum? Why is it, that you offer increasingly less insight?

Why do you ignore my earlier question about WAMD? Yesterday you had TWE as a scum read, has that changed? Is there anything on your mind? What do you think of CCS, who's gotten little to no attention after the heat at the start of the game?

You're not even shitposting anymore!

 

[Gorlak]

I saw your reply TWE, but I'm going to bed. I'll come back to it, after some much needed sleep, tomorrow morning.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Finally getting some time to read over while watching carolina's game in the tourney.

Then have fun being set behind another day.



B1) Was I wrong to trust him? I mean he did turn out to be town, no? Sure that looks "scummy" because only scum knows who's actually town, but a man can't change his mind after some time?

B2) Was not meaning to prod to get a roleclaim I was simply stating that we didn't know what he was. That was completely my fault and something that does not translate well to a game of TEXT mafia. It was more or less me saying "and we don't know what franconp" is.

B3) Is someone not allowed to change their reads? I mean honestly, yes they may be quick changes in reads but everybody does that in their heads just not in the thread. That's how I do it, in the thread. I want everyone to know what I'm thinking. Idk...

B4) I have reason to be wary of how people percieve me because I want Town to win, and so I don't want Town to vote me out. Is it really that hard?

Eh, idk if text mafia is for me tbh. Feels like it always comes back to this point. I'm gonna continue playing as I do until I die.

so wanted to address a few points i this post.

First, yes bronx ended up being town, but the issue I among others took with you saying at the start of the day that you were sure of Bronx was that no new info had come out that wasn't already known. You should be critical and skeptical of claims in mafia, so this coming out with full confidence strikes me as off a bit. It makes more sense that you may be scum, already know bronx was telling the truth and misread how people were going to feel about bronx at day start.

Second, sloppy town and scum looking to press an advantage are hard to discern between. Will return to that in a second.

Third, yes someone is allowed to change their reads, but its rare that so many reads will change so quickly and completely. Generally, reads are being formed off of your interpretations and gut feelings from actions that can be taken as scummy or not. Unless you are scum, and have to fake all reads you are making it which case it is harder to really sell the right amount of conviction in your reads versus taking advantage of changes in the room.

Fourth, again sure you should never go willingly it your lynch (which an alarming number of people have been willing to at least pay lip service to this game). But the best way to protect your life isnt to continuously say how sorry town will be for wasting a day if you are lynched or say how innocent you are, but rather to be proactive in finding who scum are.

One or two of these things is much easier to stomach as town play from someone who is flailing a bit. As these things continue to pile up it becomes hard to continue to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm going to continue to look a few others over, mainly swamped and gorlak, but for now I'll park this here unless something else jumps out at me.

Vote: TheWorthyEdge

 

[Swamped]

Sorry for my absence, but i will post more tomorrow before the deadline. So Splinter was blocked last night. I was wondering why Scum didn't kill him but they didn't have to. I do agree that Sorian may have been a vig attack.

Here are some musings.

So we have three tangible night actions (apart from NKs): poison, message, post restriction and fruit.

We had two people poisoned and nobody else came forward after that. All the messages each night were accounted for from Sorian. Blarg so far is the only one who had the restriction, on D2. Maybe this was only a 1-shot?

Only Dragonz claimed she received a banana, this was on D2 if i remember correctly. We have no idea what it does, or even if this is the truth but seems an awful weird thing to lie about. BUT nobody else has come forward with their fruits, making me less inclined to believe her. Maybe they were handed to people who died, maybe they were role blocked by scum, or maybe something else.

If anyone has used up their shots, i believe this is the time to come forward.

Somehow TWE still isn't my first lynch choice. I could see a town TWE playing erratically like him. But if people see scum in him go for it.

For me the most convincing thing about Dragonz being scum is that on D2 she blindly followed Crab's reads assuming he was town, even though nobody was sure of that.

I could definitely vote for Dragonz, Stan, or Burb.

 

[Swamped]

VOTE: StanleyPalmtree

Your votes and reads have been too safe. I still don't understand why you scum read CCS, and you have been doing so from the beginning of the game. Reads usually evolve given flips. Please clarify.

Kawl and Dragonz, what do you both think of Stan btw? Or link your posts if you have already talked about this.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

VOTE: StanleyPalmtree

Your votes and reads have been too safe. I still don't understand why you scum read CCS, and you have been doing so from the beginning of the game. Reads usually evolve given flips. Please clarify.

Kawl and Dragonz, what do you both think of Stan btw? Or link your posts if you have already talked about this.

well i cant say i didnt see this happening eventually, im an easy target and your running out of those.

i have little to help you understand it, its much more my gut that has been saying it, im sure i had some particular details informing it earlier, but they have been well forgotten. best i can say is that his play hasn't done anything to improve my read of him.
feel free to run a mile with that.

its a read that has been consistent because there has been nothing for it to evolve from, most of the flips went how i expected, or at least didnt surprise me (except for blarg, but fuck if i can get anything good from that flip), achors is the only player i have been truly wrong about, and even then i had already considered that outcome and still think it likely that CCS is still scum.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

so this is probably going to bite me in the ass, but im honestly coming to think TWE is town. the erratic play, terrible ideas, and that bizarre insistence on honestyall just speak to me of a sincere townie that is just being really dumb.

 

[Kawl_USC]

VOTE: StanleyPalmtree

Your votes and reads have been too safe. I still don't understand why you scum read CCS, and you have been doing so from the beginning of the game. Reads usually evolve given flips. Please clarify.

Kawl and Dragonz, what do you both think of Stan btw? Or link your posts if you have already talked about this.

Coming from the most recent two posts he just made, there's no world in which I see Stan as scum if TWE is scum. Don't think w/w looks like that post right there.

As I think TWE has been slightly weak scum versus super sloppy town, I'll tie the above into it and say I feel decent about Stan.

For a read in a vacuum, Stan has seemed very low impact from what I recall in this thread, but that fits right in with my experiences with Stan. IDK if i've played with a scum!Stan before though.

 

[CCS]

I'm really sorry for my low post count/content last few days, been super busy irl but should be able to post more now.

My views haven't particularly changed since the reads list I posted a couple of pages back, would be happy with lynching any of my scum reads (WAMD, TWE, Stan, FEP, although FEP is the weakest read there so I'd prefer one of the other three).

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

DAY 5 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

Burbeting (1)
TheWorthyEdge 3257 3313
StanleyPalmtree 3263

StanleyPalmtree (1)
Swamped 3390

franconp (1)
TheWorthyEdge 3333

TheWorthyEdge (1)
Kawl_USC 3388

Kyanrute (1)
Gorlak 3386

Swamped (0): Faddy 3292 3329, TheWorthyEdge 3313 3333

WhereAreMahDragonz (0): Gorlak 3317 3386

No active vote for Day 5: *Splinter, Burbeting, CCS, Faddy (has previously voted), flatearthpandas, franconp, Kyanrute, WhereAreMahDragonz


Day 5 ends:

Automated vote tally here

7 votes for majority

 

[Kyanrute]

Vote: Kyanrute

You seem awfully content with how the game is going. You've been withdrawing yourself or at least I feel you contribute less. I get the feeling that no one has questioned you the whole game?

Why do you care about poison, mechanics and night actions more than about finding scum? Why is it, that you offer increasingly less insight?

Why do you ignore my earlier question about WAMD? Yesterday you had TWE as a scum read, has that changed? Is there anything on your mind? What do you think of CCS, who's gotten little to no attention after the heat at the start of the game?

You're not even shitposting anymore!

What's the time frame you are referring to here? This day phase I'd agree with the low contributions and the fault there lies in my lovely alter-ego Hangover Kyan. He did not care much for doing deep research, well, care much for anything that wasn't a cold glass of water or the bed.

Nobody really has questioned me that much barring the occasional query about my opinion concerning a specific situation. Even Blarg stopped shitposting with me on day two, what was sad.

The poisonings and the night actions are concrete things that leave evidence behind. They are the sensible part of the puzzle and are something that I find easier to decipher than people and their lies so I tend to spend some time to speculate about them. I disagree with the notion that I do not care about scumhunting and my posts so far in the game should prove my stance easily. Besides mechanics talk, I've done a fair bit of questioning and pursuing things that have felt scummy to me.

I ignored the dragonz question because on last day I reserved a right to read through her content to make accurate judgement about her. I wish to do the same for CCS. TWE is still a scum read for me but a little voice in my head is warning me that TWE feels rather similar to acohrs, Verelios and Bronx. They all were town. Of course, the issue with this line of thinking is that going with it give scummies a free pass to be uncooperative townies, what is unacceptable. So I distill my stance to "like TWE vote but open to new ideas".

I'll read through dragonz and CCS soonTM. oh and shitposts don't just come on demand they are a form of a art

 

[*Splinter]

I just dunno about TWE. He's scummy but I've got a bad feeling about lynching him. I think the only really convincing point against him is how often and easily he changes his reads. The Bronx stuff doesn't convince me since I mostly trusted Bronx as well, the poisoner conspiracies always seemed overblown to me.

Stan could be scum, he did the same "I knew you would target me" thing that Swamped did on D1.

Honestly it feels like my best chance of hitting scum now is to let the wheel decide. Where the fuck are the claims? Why has noone claimed responsibility for Sorian's death?

I'm sticking with swamped, because fuck it.

Remaining scum are probably Kawl and CCS. Maybe a surprise scum in Fran/Kyan/Gorlak.

VOTE: Swamped

 

[franconp]

vote: Burbeting

I'm tired of waiting for Burb to participate in the game. 6 post in the last 2 phases is really low.

I could move my vote for TWE as I'm scum reading him too but I don't want to keep a blank spot as Burb in the game.

 

[Kyanrute]

CCS is very consistent with his dragonz scum read. The rest of the list always slightly changes, a name is dropped only to be added some posts later. Overall the same names have been circulating CCS' lists since d2 at least. Overall dragonz is so often mentioned that I get some scum shading scum mate vibes from this.

CCS is passive I feel. On earlier days I was somewhat worried of his fluffiness, specifically in regard of his content. He has his reads, what is very good, but he does not necessarily go that much beyond them. The strongest push for a read was Faddy on d4, what was abandoned after Splinter claimed. It wasn't even that amazing of a push; his reasoning was that Faddy was scummy because he had voted for three different townies on consecutive days and he also had a vote on Crab. CCS mentions that the same criteria somewhat apply also to Swamped and Kyan. It is somewhat strange that CCS votes for Faddy instead of Swamped, who he has considered scum in multiple occasions before (though to CCS' defense, he claims to have been flip-flopping with his read of her a lot).

Other possible oddities are his staunch defense of acohrs and trust towards Bronx right after his claim.

 

[*Splinter]

vote: Burbeting

I'm tired of waiting for Burb to participate in the game. 6 post in the last 2 phases is really low.

I could move my vote for TWE as I'm scum reading him too but I don't want to keep a blank spot as Burb in the game.

We're on day 5 without lynching scum, why are you voting for anything other than your top scum read? This is dressed up as a policy lynch.